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Edge & Christian posted:I think it's pretty dumb and poorly paced and has some hilariously dumb plot developments, but I think I'm also in the minority. I also don't really like Snyder's Batman either so I agree with half of this post. It's weird that I really like Snyder's Batman, but I really dislike Eternal. It just feels like the definition of "trying too hard" on every level. I mean, sure, bring in a bunch of characters from the Bat-mythos if you want, I'm a guy who doesn't mind a little fanservice, but the story seems to really be trying to bring in literally every character from the Bat-mythos, and it is stretching itself in the most ludicrous ways to make that happen. I mean, not only is Gotham apparently going through a gang war (to ensure that all the Batman crime families like the Falcones would be around), but it is also undergoing weird underground sewer happenings like child kidnappings (thus ensuring that Killer Croc is involved) and loving spirit poo poo is happening (bringing in Deacon Blackfire and Gentleman Ghost) that pulls Arkham Asylum underground? And all this is just (yet) another one of those stories that strains, if not outright breaks, any suspension of disbelief that anybody would live in Gotham because just tons of terrible poo poo is befalling the city, with little to no breaks (I think like only a month of time has passed in the comic) and nothing gets better. Every time someone gets close to a victory, we cut to Hush or yet another villain talking about how this was all part of the plan like I'm reading loving Death Note. It's frankly astounding, the contrast between the quality on Eternal and Adjectiveless Batman. It's like some Snyder's got some Jekyll and Hyde poo poo goin' on.
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Nov 1, 2014 06:22
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TwoPair posted:I agree with half of this post. It's weird that I really like Snyder's Batman, but I really dislike Eternal. It just feels like the definition of "trying too hard" on every level. I mean, sure, bring in a bunch of characters from the Bat-mythos if you want, I'm a guy who doesn't mind a little fanservice, but the story seems to really be trying to bring in literally every character from the Bat-mythos, and it is stretching itself in the most ludicrous ways to make that happen. I mean, not only is Gotham apparently going through a gang war (to ensure that all the Batman crime families like the Falcones would be around), but it is also undergoing weird underground sewer happenings like child kidnappings (thus ensuring that Killer Croc is involved) and loving spirit poo poo is happening (bringing in Deacon Blackfire and Gentleman Ghost) that pulls Arkham Asylum underground? I agree completely but just to be fair to Snyder, Eternal also has too many writers. Give the boot to Tynion and Fawkes and the book would be way better.
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Nov 1, 2014 07:07
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Eternal is basically Snyder throwing out some plot points he wants to happen and other writers doing what they want with them as long as it ends up at a certain pre set destination for the characters.lotus circle posted:Would he really leave so soon (Doyle that is)? It hasn't even been a year. DC are moving their offices to LA, and the majority of editors are leaving rather than relocate. In the personal side of thing Doyle is married with a kid to Jeanine Schaefer who's a Marvel editor/Marvel's current new talent scout so it wouldn't be too surprising if he ended up with Marvel.
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Nov 1, 2014 13:33
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lotus circle posted:Would he really leave so soon (Doyle that is)? It hasn't even been a year. e: Oh screw you Waterhaul.
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Nov 1, 2014 13:38
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Waterhaul posted:DC are moving their offices to LA, and the majority of editors are leaving rather than relocate. In the personal side of thing Doyle is married with a kid to Jeanine Schaefer who's a Marvel editor/Marvel's current new talent scout so it wouldn't be too surprising if he ended up with Marvel.
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Nov 1, 2014 20:08
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TwoPair posted:I agree with half of this post. It's weird that I really like Snyder's Batman, but I really dislike Eternal. It just feels like the definition of "trying too hard" on every level. I mean, sure, bring in a bunch of characters from the Bat-mythos if you want, I'm a guy who doesn't mind a little fanservice, but the story seems to really be trying to bring in literally every character from the Bat-mythos, and it is stretching itself in the most ludicrous ways to make that happen. I mean, not only is Gotham apparently going through a gang war (to ensure that all the Batman crime families like the Falcones would be around), but it is also undergoing weird underground sewer happenings like child kidnappings (thus ensuring that Killer Croc is involved) and loving spirit poo poo is happening (bringing in Deacon Blackfire and Gentleman Ghost) that pulls Arkham Asylum underground? Which is why I am especially curious as to what is going to happen in a Year Two of Eternal. At this point the first year of Eternal is already pretty much Every Character Ever part of an enormous conspiracy that involves the Gotham Police thrown into chaos, Arkham thrown into chaos, the Batfamily thrown into chaos, organized crime thrown into chaos, and wheels within wheels within wheels of a consortium of bad dudes doing bad things to Gotham, which we've established will be plague ridden and on fire by the end of the series. So what on Earth do you do for "Year Two"? The Gotham Police being SUPERcorrupt? Gang War Two: This Time It's Global? Gotham City is moved to the Phantom Zone and populated solely with OMACs?
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Nov 1, 2014 21:29
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Edge & Christian posted:While I don't like either, I do agree that Snyder's Batman is at least something resembling (an annoying cliche ridden) Good Clean Fun Action Blockbuster in a way that Eternal certainly isn't. I assume that Renee will be introduced in this one. Snyder has said that he was thinking of introducing her in this one, but wanted her to be important and not just another person in this storyline. I assume it will involve Gordon completely redoing the Gotham police.
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Nov 1, 2014 21:35
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bobkatt013 posted:I assume that Renee will be introduced in this one. Snyder has said that he was thinking of introducing her in this one, but wanted her to be important and not just another person in this storyline. I assume it will involve Gordon completely redoing the Gotham police. And probably introducing another new character to the bat family, Snyder loves to do that (as if the batfamily isn't bloated enough). The only good thing of this is that put to rest the rumors about DC rebooting again after the Crisis' anniversary event. Or at least I hope so. Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Nov 1, 2014 |
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Nov 1, 2014 21:52
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So I reckon I'm going to pick up Grant Morrison's entire run on Batman. Aside from the Morrison-written comics, what surrounding Batman material is worth reading, if any? I'd like to get the 'whole saga' so to speak though I guess if I go down that road too far I'll end up buying every Batman comic ever. So: opinions on Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader? Battle for the Cowl? Son of the Demon? Also, I've heard that the Hurt storyline is set up in 52, do I really need to read that though?
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Nov 1, 2014 22:34
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Sailor Viy posted:So I reckon I'm going to pick up Grant Morrison's entire run on Batman. Aside from the Morrison-written comics, what surrounding Batman material is worth reading, if any? I'd like to get the 'whole saga' so to speak though I guess if I go down that road too far I'll end up buying every Batman comic ever. Black Mirror is a great Dick as Batman story. Batman and Robin 52 is really good, and do not real Son of the Demon. Batman is not even in 52 but I could be forgetting something but read it anyways
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Nov 1, 2014 22:40
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Sailor Viy posted:So I reckon I'm going to pick up Grant Morrison's entire run on Batman. Aside from the Morrison-written comics, what surrounding Batman material is worth reading, if any? I'd like to get the 'whole saga' so to speak though I guess if I go down that road too far I'll end up buying every Batman comic ever. All of the non-Morrison stuff really just distracts from what Morrison's doing. You honestly get a more complete picture by zoning it out. 52 is excellent just on its own merits, though -- and it *does* have some issues, especially I think #30, that set up a bunch of Morrison's run. You'll also DEFINITELY need Final Crisis, which will make you want to read a lot more Morrison DC comics.
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Nov 1, 2014 22:47
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:And probably introducing another new character to the bat family, Snyder loves to do that (as if the batfamily isn't bloated enough).
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Nov 1, 2014 23:18
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Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader is pretty great. It doesn't tie into anything and is a stand-alone story. It's Gaiman playing around with Batman and the myth and characters.
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Nov 2, 2014 00:14
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d00gZ posted:All of the non-Morrison stuff really just distracts from what Morrison's doing. You honestly get a more complete picture by zoning it out. 52 is excellent just on its own merits, though -- and it *does* have some issues, especially I think #30, that set up a bunch of Morrison's run. Resurrection of Ras Al Ghul is a good example of this. Being locked into a crossover feels like a bit of a speed bump. Open Marriage Night fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Nov 2, 2014 |
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Nov 2, 2014 04:51
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I just finished Morrison's Batman and skipped the side stuff (plus Final Crisis, which I'm going to get to next). Battle for the Cowl was the only time when it felt like I had missed a crucial bit of plot (although I've been told that isn't really the case); Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul and Bruce Wayne - The Road Home are completely superfluous. Batwoman - Elegy isn't directly related but it's great and she turns up in Morrison's run a few times too.
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Nov 2, 2014 06:36
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Battle for the Cowl isn't by Morrison but is just the bridge between the ending of Final Crisis and the start of the Reborn Era of Batman. It is pretty sloppily written I think, though the tie-ins are excellent.
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Nov 2, 2014 10:44
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I really didn't word that well. I meant that going from the Batman RIP trade to the Batman and Robin trade felt like a bit of a jump, and that I'd missed a bunch of stuff about why Dick Grayson had taken over being Batman.
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Nov 2, 2014 10:50
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lotus circle posted:I'd be okay with this if the "new character" is Cassandra Cain. Hell I'm all for Snyder using his critical acclaim and popularity (considering he almost consistently writes the highest selling book every month) to bring back characters that DC has shelved for no real reason after the New 52 began, no matter how 'meh' Eternal may or may not be. At least it means someone else may be able to use those characters in the future now. Yeah, going by Gates of Gotham at least, Snyder is good at writing Cass well, and he's done pretty well with Steph.
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Nov 2, 2014 12:43
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lotus circle posted:I'd be okay with this if the "new character" is Cassandra Cain. Hell I'm all for Snyder using his critical acclaim and popularity (considering he almost consistently writes the highest selling book every month) to bring back characters that DC has shelved for no real reason after the New 52 began, no matter how 'meh' Eternal may or may not be. At least it means someone else may be able to use those characters in the future now. Why do you hate Cassandra Cain so much that you want her in the Gettingkindaold52?
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Nov 2, 2014 20:39
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SirDan3k posted:Why do you hate Cassandra Cain so much that you want her in the Gettingkindaold52? That probably makes me the biggest chump of them all.
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Nov 2, 2014 20:54
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I really didn't word that well. I meant that going from the Batman RIP trade to the Batman and Robin trade felt like a bit of a jump, and that I'd missed a bunch of stuff about why Dick Grayson had taken over being Batman. That's on purpose. They just step into the roles; the battle for the cowl business gets exactly one mention.
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Nov 2, 2014 21:14
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d00gZ posted:All of the non-Morrison stuff really just distracts from what Morrison's doing. You honestly get a more complete picture by zoning it out. 52 is excellent just on its own merits, though -- and it *does* have some issues, especially I think #30, that set up a bunch of Morrison's run. I'd question whether you need all of Final Crisis to get Morrison's Batman. Sure, that's where he "dies," but if you're reading stuff because you're confused and want to fill in the gaps, FC is basically the biggest gently caress you possible. I love it, but its a book with about as much exposition as Silent Interlude.
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Nov 2, 2014 21:53
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Yvonmukluk posted:Yeah, going by Gates of Gotham at least, Snyder is good at writing Cass well, and he's done pretty well with Steph. You kidding right? Steph went from scary little girl hiding on the library to hyper ultra badass pulling feats that even Nightwing would find ludicrous, with no build up or logic. lotus circle posted:I'd be okay with this if the "new character" is Cassandra Cain. Hell I'm all for Snyder using his critical acclaim and popularity (considering he almost consistently writes the highest selling book every month) to bring back characters that DC has shelved for no real reason after the New 52 began, no matter how 'meh' Eternal may or may not be. At least it means someone else may be able to use those characters in the future now. I find highly unlikely that Cassandra will show up soon since Snyder has Duke and the guy on Bruce's hallucination already on the waiting list.
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Nov 2, 2014 22:05
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hup posted:That's on purpose. They just step into the roles; the battle for the cowl business gets exactly one mention. It's about the only time that there was an in-story jump that I thought might have been explained by something I'd missed. On the other hand I think I didn't know Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul existed until I was mid RIP.
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Nov 2, 2014 23:43
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:You kidding right? Steph went from scary little girl hiding on the library to hyper ultra badass pulling feats that even Nightwing would find ludicrous, with no build up or logic. I...may be getting my Batman information second-hand. All I got was she was pretty good. I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions!
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Nov 2, 2014 23:58
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lotus circle posted:I like to believe that DC has learned from their mistakes with her. You and me both.  
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Nov 3, 2014 00:18
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hiddenriverninja posted:You and me both. Me three. Oh well, she went out on a high in the old DCU.
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Nov 3, 2014 00:49
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Ten pages from Gotham By Midnight http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/11/03/ten-page-preview-of-gotham-by-midnight-1-by-ray-fawkes-and-ben-templesmith/ Looks beautiful.
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Nov 3, 2014 21:42
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I've got kind of an obscure Batman question. Yesterday I got to interview Neal Adams. It was a functional interview, just talking to guests who are going to be at a con for local media outlet. He was accessible, and someone who's work I liked, so I skipped him and called him up. In doing my job, I told Adams I always liked the Batman stories he did with Denny in the 70's. I asked him if he thought it was okay to describe him as "one of the creators who revitalized Batman from 1960's camp to the modern, darker, more adult Batman we have today." He launched into a rant about how O'Neil had nothing to do with it. Adams really seemed to hold a bitter grudge against Denny O'Neil, for whatever reason. Anyone know anything about their beef?
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Nov 5, 2014 10:53
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Latest issue of Eternal just made me wish for an Alfred: Origins even more.
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Nov 6, 2014 01:01
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God Of Paradise posted:Neal Adams He did Batman: Odyssey right?
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Nov 6, 2014 09:06
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Madkal posted:Latest issue of Eternal just made me wish for an Alfred: Origins even more. The most we'll probably ever get though is a Secret Origins story, though Eternal might touch on it a bit more.
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Nov 6, 2014 18:00
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I finally found why is that Eternal bothers me so much. Is written like a fanfiction(and a terrible one to boot), things happens just because they're cool often disregarding characterizations and inner logic. Given how much that kind of writing was present on RHATO and Grayson, I'm inclined to think than that falls on Tynion and Seeley's heads. Having said that, this issue was acceptable.
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Nov 6, 2014 18:53
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The latest 'Tec storyline was kinda lame (and if Dick's new status quo is going all Marathon Man on Russians, yuck), but god bless JPL/Dave Stewart. Man, that was a pretty-looking arc.
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Nov 7, 2014 06:10
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I really liked the first issue, but it all wrapped up terribly. Maybe the story could have worked if it had a bit more room and Bruce had to deal with accelerated aging a bit further than looking at gray hair in a mirror for one panel. Dick's actual spy book is nothing like he's depicted here. It's super ridiculous and entertaining.
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Nov 7, 2014 07:08
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Teenage Fansub posted:Dick's actual spy book is nothing like he's depicted here. It's super ridiculous and entertaining. I'm becoming increasingly tired of Grayson with each new issue. As I mentioned on my previous post, the whole thing has been less about a spy thriller and more of a shilling of Grayson (this issue didn't add nothing relevant to the larger arc and was filled with "look how badass is Dick" scenes). I'm giving it until the finish of this arc to make me change my mind, otherwise, is dropped.
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Nov 7, 2014 07:22
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Grayson's been a lot of fun and I've been loving all the crazy spiral patterns and poo poo that Janin has been doing. For poser art at least it has a cool aesthetic that JLD didn't really have. It's definitely a lot more interesting than the utterly dull nightwing series. And yeah Dick in Grayson is nothing like Dick in 'Tec, Grayson has more in common with the older whackier Bond stuff than Craig era Bond. I wish Jean Paul Leon would work on an actual series though, he'd have been a good replacement for Andrea Sorrentino if Jeff Lemire hadn't left Green Arrow too leaving us with a really poo poo creative team.
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Nov 7, 2014 07:41
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:I'm giving it until the finish of this arc to make me change my mind, otherwise, is dropped. e: and as for not adding anything onto the larger arc -- the most recent issue heavily implied Helena is working as a double agent with her own ulterior motive. She definitely had to have found out the transmissions were from Batman, but used the girl's spy cameras as a way out of revealing that. It's just in time too, since December's annual is going to be all about her. lotus circle fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 07:56
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lotus circle posted:If you're not going to like it now, you should just drop it. The first quote-on-quote arc ends on issue 10 according to interviews, though it's less of an arc and more of a build-up of one and dones on top of each other. Multi-issue stories start after that though. I really liked Nightwing 30 and issues 1 and 2, are just this last two issues (and the FE one shot) that didn't do anything for me.
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Nov 7, 2014 08:02
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lotus circle posted:you should just drop it. Probably Eternal too. I think your weekly report of 'Horrible as usual' vs 'it was okay this week' is maybe 10:1. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 08:11
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