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Man, this new system of grilling Commissioners-Elect in the Parliament turns out to be a very good idea.
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Oct 11, 2014 15:10
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Junior G-man posted:Man, this new system of grilling Commissioners-Elect in the Parliament turns out to be a very good idea. Sarcasm? I really can't tell, sorry.
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Oct 11, 2014 15:35
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Junior G-man posted:Man, this new system of grilling Commissioners-Elect in the Parliament turns out to be a very good idea. I heard they gave the British Commissioner-Elect a hard time, but there is no realistic chance that they won't get confirmed, right?
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Oct 12, 2014 15:33
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Torrannor posted:I heard they gave the British Commissioner-Elect a hard time, but there is no realistic chance that they won't get confirmed, right? He did get confirmed after the second hearing. At the first he appeared not to know or have any opinion about Eurobonds ...
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Oct 12, 2014 21:13
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Junior G-man posted:At the first he appeared not to know or have any opinion about Eurobonds ... Slovenia's candidate for the commission was rejected by the Parliament - she was nominated for the energy union portfolio. The Hungarian nominee will apparently be confirmed but his portfolio will be amended to prevent him from having oversight over matters relating to EU citizenship.
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Oct 12, 2014 21:25
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The Swedish Central bank announced earlier today announced that the rate is getting lowered all the way to 0%. Set sail oh glorious european economy.  http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/riksbankens-nya-ranta-0-procent/
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Oct 28, 2014 17:16
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LemonDrizzle posted:Slovenia's candidate for the commission was rejected by the Parliament - she was nominated for the energy union portfolio. Good. The only reason why she was even there is because she nominated herself for the position after her party lost the elections in Slovenia.
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Oct 28, 2014 18:11
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Xoidanor posted:The Swedish Central bank announced earlier today announced that the rate is getting lowered all the way to 0%. Set sail oh glorious european economy. Migrate Greece, Spain, and Portugal to the kroner, that'll fix things
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Oct 28, 2014 23:31
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Does anyone know more about Podemos? Because, umm, http://politica.elpais.com/politica/2014/11/01/actualidad/1414865510_731502.html 3peat fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Nov 2, 2014 |
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Nov 2, 2014 09:06
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3peat posted:Does anyone know more about Podemos? Because, umm, Wow, this could get interesting.
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Nov 2, 2014 09:52
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3peat posted:Does anyone know more about Podemos? Because, umm, That is just about the best thing.  Podemos is a left wing party whose leader IIRC said he was inspired by SYRIZA.
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Nov 2, 2014 09:57
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3peat posted:Does anyone know more about Podemos? Because, umm, (In other places, or sometimes the very same, you see a lot of anti-foreigner parties gain traction.) 
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Nov 2, 2014 12:21
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So, between Cameron having to pay 2 billion back to the EU, him trying to limit EU migration to the UK and Merkel supposedly openly telling him that the latter would mean showing Britain the door, how (im)possible is it that the UK actually ends up leaving the Union?
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Nov 2, 2014 12:37
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ufarn posted:The Socialist Party is also blowing up in Portugal. The Socialist Party has always been the biggest party in Portugal though.
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Nov 2, 2014 12:45
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ufarn posted:In countries affected by austerity, you tend to get those extreme-left parties like SYRIZA and here Podemos. The Socialist Party is also blowing up in Portugal. The portuguese PS is just our democrat party, they're not really like syriza/podemos/m5s. Our social movements during the crisis didn't really coalesce into a party so much as went back to their normal lives (though some new parties did show up like LIVRE and MAS). Podemos is apparently a very populist movement, sort of like Beppe Grillo's M5S, but hey, if people want to give them a shot they might as well. PSOE and PP are really loving terrible, so.
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Nov 2, 2014 12:46
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KoldPT posted:Podemos is apparently a very populist movement, sort of like Beppe Grillo's M5S, but hey, if people want to give them a shot they might as well. PSOE and PP are really loving terrible, so.
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Nov 2, 2014 12:58
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System Metternich posted:So, between Cameron having to pay 2 billion back to the EU, him trying to limit EU migration to the UK and Merkel supposedly openly telling him that the latter would mean showing Britain the door, how (im)possible is it that the UK actually ends up leaving the Union? Hopefully, the UK has been one of the largest obstacles to a larger unification. Without their influence, we may be finally see the United States of Europe become a reality. Who knows, maybe we come back to the UK next century when they finally go crazy and try to take EU-Scottland by force.
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Nov 2, 2014 12:58
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Libluini posted:Hopefully, the UK has been one of the largest obstacles to a larger unification. Without their influence, we may be finally see the United States of Europe become a reality. Who knows, maybe we come back to the UK next century when they finally go crazy and try to take EU-Scottland by force. Posts like these are downright frightening. Are you a rich German banker by chance? Or maybe somebody who has family getting rich by EU corruption in a smaller EU nation? EU is not a good thing. It's possibly the most anti-democratic force in the last 25 years.
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Nov 2, 2014 13:14
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LemonDrizzle posted:Do any of these anti-politics protest parties have any kind of coherent plan for fixing southern europe's problems or are they basically just going "poo poo's hosed up and it's not faaaaiiiir" ? i'm going to laugh at you for this post
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Nov 2, 2014 13:17
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KoldPT posted:i'm going to laugh at you for this post I'll take that to mean "no, they don't have any coherent plans" then.
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Nov 2, 2014 13:22
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Baron FU posted:Posts like these are downright frightening. Are you a rich German banker by chance? Or maybe somebody who has family getting rich by EU corruption in a smaller EU nation? A stronger EU would, by consequence of greater responsibilities, be more accountable and under greater pressure to ensure its viability. It's the present-day half-assed poo poo institutions that make the EU a tragedy/farce. LemonDrizzle posted:I'll take that to mean "no, they don't have any coherent plans" then. Not like the current European political leadership has any coherent plans soooooo...
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Nov 2, 2014 13:25
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Libluini posted:Hopefully, the UK has been one of the largest obstacles to a larger unification. Without their influence, we may be finally see the United States of Europe become a reality. Who knows, maybe we come back to the UK next century when they finally go crazy and try to take EU-Scotland by force. Please feel free to explain why you think that a USE is a good idea. Not because I don't think a case could be made for it, but living in the UK you never actually hear the case being made. I just suspect instinctively that there's little will for this among the people of Europe (as opposed to the politicians), the people of Germany are already stoppy about bailing out those southern Europeans so pray-tell, why would they be happier about being in a USE which consists of Greece & Portugal & Romania & Bulgaria & other countries which will need massive investments to bring them up to scratch with the more industrialised north.
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Nov 2, 2014 13:29
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YF-23 posted:A stronger EU would, by consequence of greater responsibilities, be more accountable and under greater pressure to ensure its viability. It's the present-day half-assed poo poo institutions that make the EU a tragedy/farce. There's no accountability when it's some unelected rich french/german/whatever fucker that decides anything that actually matters. A large amount of people voted against more EU in the last parlamentary election but we got Juncker for our troubles. EU is a capitalists dream and should be destroyed.
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Nov 2, 2014 13:30
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YF-23 posted:A stronger EU would, by consequence of greater responsibilities, be more accountable and under greater pressure to ensure its viability. It's the present-day half-assed poo poo institutions that make the EU a tragedy/farce. Doesn't the Euro crisis show the opposite to be true? Increased power and influence in national affairs has been met with less accountability if anything.
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Nov 2, 2014 13:34
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KoldPT posted:The portuguese PS is just our democrat party, they're not really like syriza/podemos/m5s. Our social movements during the crisis didn't really coalesce into a party so much as went back to their normal lives (though some new parties did show up like LIVRE and MAS). 
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Nov 2, 2014 13:40
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Baron FU posted:There's no accountability when it's some unelected rich french/german/whatever fucker that decides anything that actually matters. A large amount of people voted against more EU in the last parlamentary election but we got Juncker for our troubles. EU is a capitalists dream and should be destroyed. Yes, it is a capitalist's dream in its current form, and that is why the European leadership has been massively against any changes to it. Giving the EU further authority and responsibilities is a thing that these people do not want, because when the EU gets those it will also have to use them, in ways that would turn it into not-so-much a capitalist's dream. I feel I shouldn't have to say this, but the EU right now does not have the authority it needs to operate properly, and so because it does not operate properly, it is unpopular. And also, technically, Juncker was, actually, elected.
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Nov 2, 2014 13:41
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YF-23 posted:Yes, it is a capitalist's dream in its current form, and that is why the European leadership has been massively against any changes to it. Giving the EU further authority and responsibilities is a thing that these people do not want, because when the EU gets those it will also have to use them, in ways that would turn it into not-so-much a capitalist's dream. I feel I shouldn't have to say this, but the EU right now does not have the authority it needs to operate properly, and so because it does not operate properly, it is unpopular. Expanding the EU isn't in the interest of capitalists? Are you loving kidding me.
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Nov 2, 2014 13:43
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LemonDrizzle posted:I'll take that to mean "no, they don't have any coherent plans" then. If you're arguing in good faith, some very basic research would make you look better, but since you're not I really didn't want to respond to you seriously however i'm bored so have a link dump http://www.european-left.org/sites/default/files/programe_en.pdf http://livrept.net/declaracao-principios-161113 http://www.projetoulisses.net/p/ulysses-project-overview.html http://www.publico.es/politica/551227/objetivos-de-podemos-reestructuracion-de-la-deuda-y-paralizacion-de-los-desahucios http://podemos.info/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Programa-Podemos.pdf ufarn posted:PS is a major party for sure, but I can't help wonder what the hell lead to this climb in polling: They had their primaries, and elected a new leader, the Savior himself, the Gandhi of Lisbon, António Costa.
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Nov 2, 2014 13:45
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ReV VAdAUL posted:Doesn't the Euro crisis show the opposite to be true? Increased power and influence in national affairs has been met with less accountability if anything. Yeah, but that's what I was talking about when I was talking about half-assed poo poo. The EU can do some things, but in the end the crisis targets are the ones left with the responsibility of cleaning up the mess. When poo poo goes even worse, it's the country's fault, not the EU's, so the EU does not feel pressure to work more proactively to fix its broken institutions that lead to the crisis in the first place.
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Nov 2, 2014 13:47
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3peat posted:Does anyone know more about Podemos? Because, umm, Podemos rule and this is loving awesome. Here's an average of all polls, holy poo poo 
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Nov 2, 2014 13:48
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Podemos and Syriza are very different from M5S, which is more populist and general complaint. Podemos and Syriza do have plans, and it is dope as gently caress that the former appears to have an outside shot at making it work.
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Nov 2, 2014 14:13
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forkboy84 posted:Please feel free to explain why you think that a USE is a good idea. Not because I don't think a case could be made for it, but living in the UK you never actually hear the case being made. I just suspect instinctively that there's little will for this among the people of Europe (as opposed to the politicians), the people of Germany are already stoppy about bailing out those southern Europeans so pray-tell, why would they be happier about being in a USE which consists of Greece & Portugal & Romania & Bulgaria & other countries which will need massive investments to bring them up to scratch with the more industrialised north. Wow, this just underlines why having the UK in the EU is bad. If the UK is so Anti-EU the normal people don't even hear about it, the day we can cut them lose will be the day everything gets better for the rest of us. Here in Germany, by contrast, I hear a lot of grumbling about the EU, but also a lot of grumbling because the unification is so slow and grueling, with rich English bankers fighting us reasonable people on every step of the way. Joschka Fischer, a prominent Green politician and part of the old Red/Green government under chancellor Schröder, wrote a book about how we need a new vision, since the EU-system we have right now is kind of crappy. He postulates Germany and France must go forward again and a new EU-contract must be written, with the core EU-states willing to abdicate most of their sovereignty, instead of just a little bit. Most of the problems the EU has is not because of some percieved anti-democracy bullshit, but because all these states try to milk the EU as some sort of cash cow, instead of actually trying to cooperate and get closer together. This is why it really angers people in Germany when the UK tries to close their borders like right now, because it looks like one of the larger EU-states can just spit on everything we agreed upon and get away with it. This divisiveness is what will be the end of the EU if we're not careful.
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Nov 2, 2014 14:14
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SeekOtherCandidate posted:Podemos and Syriza are very different from M5S, which is more populist and general complaint. Podemos and Syriza do have plans, and it is dope as gently caress that the former appears to have an outside shot at making it work. Syriza are also leading in the polls. 
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Nov 2, 2014 14:15
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KoldPT posted:If you're arguing in good faith, some very basic research would make you look better, but since you're not I really didn't want to respond to you seriously These aren't plans, they're children's fantasy wish lists scribbled in crayon. Take the first one: quote:1. - Resist austerity - For a new model of development The ulysses "plan" is even better: quote:The Ulysses Agency will be granted the task of drawing up concrete proposals for development. Standard tools would be public investment projects that could be leveraged with civic or community involvement. Additional means for development could include mechanisms for the assessment of the creditworthiness of collective initiatives, which could take the form of a 'stamp of approval' that would then allow the European Central Bank, the European Investment Bank and the European Investment Fund to furnish funding to these ventures.
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Nov 2, 2014 14:20
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YF-23 posted:Yeah, but that's what I was talking about when I was talking about half-assed poo poo. The EU can do some things, but in the end the crisis targets are the ones left with the responsibility of cleaning up the mess. When poo poo goes even worse, it's the country's fault, not the EU's, so the EU does not feel pressure to work more proactively to fix its broken institutions that lead to the crisis in the first place. The elite of the EU's response to the Eurozone crisis hasn't been half-assed, it has been masterful. Oh granted it hasn't really dealt with the problems themselves but as you say it has very effectively shifted the blame to the victims and that was their aim. Given these same elites would be in charge of any efforts to create a US of E it is very likely blame passing would entrenched within the structure of the new nation. As with any neo-liberal project the risks would be the responsibility of those on the bottom, the rewards belonging solely to those at the top. Now of course if there was a strong popular pan-EU movement to create a fair and equitable new nation there would certainly be a chance the new powers it got would be balanced by similar responsibilities but there isn't such a movement. What the UK is doing with its obstruction and general awfulness is putting a spanner in the works of the elites who want to create a new nation on the same inequitable terms as the Eurozone crisis. Seeing the back of the UK would be cathartic but it wouldn't make the EU a structurally better place.
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Nov 2, 2014 14:27
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LemonDrizzle posted:In other words, "Germany writes us a blank cheque, yay!" No mention is made of how they're going to get Germany to accept this. Nothing other than direct wealth transfers from richer member states to poorer ones (as with US states) can keep the EU a viable project. If the European elites do not even want to entertain the idea of an EU that tries to avoid collapse, then gently caress it, what's the point. ReV VAdAUL posted:The elite of the EU's response to the Eurozone crisis hasn't been half-assed, it has been masterful. Oh granted it hasn't really dealt with the problems themselves but as you say it has very effectively shifted the blame to the victims and that was their aim. Given these same elites would be in charge of any efforts to create a US of E it is very likely blame passing would entrenched within the structure of the new nation. As with any neo-liberal project the risks would be the responsibility of those on the bottom, the rewards belonging solely to those at the top. A USE would by definition have those responsibilities, that is what centralisation of power means. The only way it can pass the blame and responsibility to the member states is with the current setup, which is decentralised enough to not do that. This is the EU those people want. Any further centralisation limits that. YF-23 fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Nov 2, 2014 |
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Nov 2, 2014 14:27
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YF-23 posted:A USE would by definition have those responsibilities, that is what centralisation of power means. The only way it can pass the blame and responsibility to the member states is with the current setup, which is decentralised enough to not do that. This is the EU those people want. Any further centralisation limits that. It would have the responsibilities the framers of its constitution gave it. It is eminently possible for the current elites to grab even more power for themselves, as they did with the Eurozone crisis, without accepting any further responsibility. The European Fiscal Compact did not bring about any further democracy but did EU elites even greater control of member state economies. There is simply no evidence that greater EU power consequentially results in greater responsibility.
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Nov 2, 2014 14:41
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ReV VAdAUL posted:It would have the responsibilities the framers of its constitution gave it. It is eminently possible for the current elites to grab even more power for themselves, as they did with the Eurozone crisis, without accepting any further responsibility. The European Fiscal Compact did not bring about any further democracy but did EU elites even greater control of member state economies. It's also possible Russia starts dropping nukes on us tomorrow, but not very likely. Besides, what is your proposal here? The "elites" could grab more power, so we should give up on the EU and go back to killing each other? That doesn't make sense.
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Nov 2, 2014 14:52
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KoldPT posted:
This is no joke. http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/indian-origin-costa-is-portugal-s-next-pm-candidate/article1-1269787.aspx quote:Costa has been a popular mayor of Lisbon since 2007, and is known as the ‘Gandhi of Lisbon’ due to his spartan lifestyle. A fun headline: http://www.noticiasaominuto.com/politica/291977/podera-o-gandhi-de-lisboa-vir-a-ser-um-obama-portugues "Minorities: Can the Gandhi of Lisbon be the Portuguese Obama". The comment section is a riot "Racism? What Racism. This isn't America!".
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Nov 2, 2014 15:21
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Libluini posted:Wow, this just underlines why having the UK in the EU is bad. If the UK is so Anti-EU the normal people don't even hear about it, the day we can cut them lose will be the day everything gets better for the rest of us. Grumbling because unification is so slow?? This reality distortion warp you have is incredible. Do you remember how much Kohl had to grovel and promise that the Euro would be great in order to get their junior coalition member the CSU to not oppose it ? How strong the opposition by the SPD, Die Linke and Die Grüne for the Bolkenstein directive was (despite it being the bare minimum for a "United states of Europe") ? How AfD managed to get 7% of the vote in the European elections by pretty much saying "let the Greeks and other poors suffer on their own by killing the Euro rather than creating a stronger fiscal union" ? Germany is just like France or the UK : OK with parts of EU growth where they benefit, but really against those where the EU risks disturbing the status quo. It's pretty telling that the only reason Kohl accepted the Euro in the first place was because it was the necessary bargaining chip to obtain a rapid reunification from Mitterand, but he forced the Euro to model exactly the Bundesbank's policies. Let's list Germany's current progressive stance towards the EU : - Eurobonds : No - EU Financial Transaction Tax : No, but accepted a revised (and much reduced) version - Unitary Patent : Not ratified (signed in February 2013) - GMO Crops : Negotiating an opt-out - Growth and Stability Pact : vetoing any discussion of amending it, despite not respecting the equivalent treaty and being the strongest supporter of the 2005 changes - Banking Union : Merkel and Schäuble dragged their heels until they got everything they wanted, isolating German saving banks from any impact from other countries' banks I'm not going to go into more contentious issues (getting illegal materials re-classified as legal because Mercedes-Benz made a mistake, the adhesion of Turkey, the fact that member states have a number of years where they do not enjoy the full benefits of membership...), but it's clear that Germany is not uniformly for EU integration. There are many topics today in the EU where Germany is top dog, so of course on those issues Germany is OK with stretching their power and strengthening their grip. But on aspects where Germany isn't poised to benefit immediately, Germany is pretty much uniformly opposed, and only switches once the plan has been watered down or massively changed to accomodate them.
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Nov 2, 2014 16:15
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