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Endless Space was pretty interesting while it was in early access - all sorts of neat ideas marred by a few significant flaws that were probably just down to its being early access, and would be fixed up before release. I remember the general reaction in the Endless Space thread when the game WAS released was "Wait, what? Already? How did they fix everything so quickly?" Turns out they didn't. It's possible it got patched up since, but I've had trouble getting back into it ever after, honestly.
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Oct 29, 2014 23:41
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Vicevirtuoso posted:I am shocked at how much I'm actually enjoying Beyond Earth. Sure, the AI is absolutely laughable and diplomacy may as well not be there,. That's all Civ Games to be honest.
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Oct 30, 2014 18:12
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Rumda posted:That's all Civ Games to be honest. Ehh, Civ5 is a lot more blatant about diplomacy not really mattering than Civ4 was, anyway. Granted that in Civ4 AIs basically acted like Civ5 city-states, you still had more nuanced interactions than "whelp, he's going to hate me no matter what I do, might as well ignore him."
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Oct 30, 2014 18:22
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Endless Space is a good game if you hate diplomacy. I could never figure out how trade routes and everything worked, but I still enjoyed developing all my planets and designing individual ships. I think the ship-designing and admittedly poor fleet control turned some people off but I didn't mind it much. Also the space battles can be skipped or you can watch your pretty space pods shoot colors at other space pods for a minute or two  Definitely going to pick up Endless Legend at the first sale, I had to stop reading the thread because it was tempting me to pay full price.
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Oct 30, 2014 18:23
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For trade routes, as far as I know all you had to do was build a building that let you have some and then roll in profits. You can get allies allies by being nice, trading with them and saying yes to their demands then creating a treaty. Afterwards you can create a trade contract between the two of you which will first lower the amount of stuff you get from trading, but will eventually double it, I think. Always remember to sucker as much technology out of the computer as you can. Trade agreements eventually run out and you'll get the resources back. But once a computer has technology, they can keep using it and building on it.
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Oct 30, 2014 18:43
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I guess I sort of understood all that, it just seemed like such a huge blistering hassle that I never bothered. Honestly it's not like the AI presents a significant challenge anyway, unless you get stuck with a galaxy full of hot stars and asteroid belts and they get to run away with the game from the start.
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Oct 30, 2014 19:29
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Rumda posted:That's all Civ Games to be honest. BE takes it to a whole new level, though. It's rather commonplace to complete an entire BE game without making a single trade with an AI. Even vanilla Civ 5 had Luxury trading and Research Agreements. If you're playing the game properly and chose your Affinity based on your nearby Strategics, there is essentially nothing the AI has to realistically offer you. You could try buying Science from them, but their asking rate is absurd. Chard posted:Endless Space is a good game if you hate diplomacy. Here's a question for the ages: are there any strategy games with good diplomacy?
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Oct 30, 2014 19:33
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Vicevirtuoso posted:Here's a question for the ages: are there any strategy games with good diplomacy? Crusader Kings 2. ...if you include 'alternative' methods of diplomacy.
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Oct 30, 2014 21:17
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Vicevirtuoso posted:BE takes it to a whole new level, though. It's rather commonplace to complete an entire BE game without making a single trade with an AI. Even vanilla Civ 5 had Luxury trading and Research Agreements. If you're playing the game properly and chose your Affinity based on your nearby Strategics, there is essentially nothing the AI has to realistically offer you. You could try buying Science from them, but their asking rate is absurd. I was using trading to build up relations, especially when I'd pissed someone off and wanted to make amends. So I had a ton of trades going at the same time. I assume it worked because everyone was guarded rather than outright hostile most of the time while I threw potshots at people. Hell, my biggest enemy in the beginning even got all the way to friendly for a short while. The asking rate for science is completely absurd though, and they should really have left in some form of research agreements.
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Oct 30, 2014 21:31
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AfroSquirrel posted:Crusader Kings 2.
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Oct 30, 2014 21:33
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Vicevirtuoso posted:Here's a question for the ages: are there any strategy games with good diplomacy? I'd say Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. Not because the AI is particularly bright or because there's interesting diplomatic options, mind you - the AI is as dumb as AI ever is, and the diplomatic options aren't anything to write home about. But having diplomatic conversations written in a way other than blandly generic "Will you take this deal?" crap does a lot to excuse stupidity. "Perhaps you should ask the UN to "invoke sanctions!" Ha ha!"
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Oct 30, 2014 21:39
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AfroSquirrel posted:Crusader Kings 2. I actually think CK2 has one of the worst systems of diplomacy in all Paradox games. Europa Universalis IV or Victoria II are much better.
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Oct 30, 2014 21:49
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Tomn posted:(...) having diplomatic conversations written in a way other than blandly generic "Will you take this deal?" crap does a lot to excuse stupidity. Vicevirtuoso posted:Here's a question for the ages: are there any strategy games with good diplomacy? Lords of the Realm 2 had the best bad diplomacy system, by way of how goofy the braindead AI talk/act.
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Oct 31, 2014 13:18
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Next session recorded but not edited. Working on it.
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Nov 2, 2014 21:27
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I found endless space to be pretty, but really unintuitive. I mean REALLY unintuitive; as in, having to go online to understand basic game mechanics. All the descriptive stuff on research projects was just fluff, it didn't go into practical detail, at all.
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Nov 2, 2014 21:35
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Part 22: Family Ties!  …I’ve never seen E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial before. Sorry, I couldn’t stop crying. I’m a big crybaby for movies like that… Is that what California was like in the 1980s? Huh. Hey, Commander, why this movie? It’s important to realize that not every alien out there may be malevolent. Just as a soldier or a cop may start to think the whole world is filled with criminals and enemies because they keep encountering them, we at XCOM might slip into thinking that everything on every other planet is hostile. It’s more likely that there’s plenty of good aliens out there, but we won’t meet them, because they won’t be interested in invading.  Y’know, the Commander’s survey yesterday had me thinking, about how this tech will change the world… You know I’m black, right? …you are? Ha! See? You didn’t! But I’m African-American. You didn’t know that, though. XCOM’s mission is to bring nations across the world together in harmony, and it’s working. Nationalism-based bigotry has no place here. If the whole world had relatively easy access to meld, then racism and sexism would be totally obsolete too. That’d be amazing. A world where you don’t pre-judge people on their appearance, because you can’t. Huh…funny you should mention that. I thought Meld would just let us use cybernetics and cure cancer, but that’s something to consider. Looks like you’ve gotten the hang of hiding behind any sort of cover. Combined with your chameleon abilities, this should make you almost totally invisible. You’ve earned a new code name, Hilda. From now on, you’re Queen. Badass. Thanks, sir! We can just barely spare the money and meld for it; you’re getting jumpy-legs. Yesssss!  Personal note: There’s been a lot less psychological trauma than I had expected. I hypothesize this is due to the fact that our enemies are aliens. Most wars require soldiers to “other” an enemy in their minds, make them less than human. This unfortunately encourages sociopathic behavior, an attempt to consider people non-people. However, the aliens are coming to us pre-othered. They’re thinking beings, but still so physically different from us it doesn’t come off as murder to destroy them.  More abductions, sir! Great. Let’s help out Germany. Europe’s been shafted by aliens the most this year, so we need to throw them some support. …son of a BITCH! Zinchenko!! Get the hell out of my lineup! But Commander, how can I become a good soldier if I never practice? …oh, fine. I’d rather send the SHIV, but whatever… good thing Germany said they’d send us a GOOD soldier for helping them out here. So, my mutated friends, how have you been liking it? I’ve been thinking of modifying myself too. Same here. Been pretty fantastic, for my part. I’d be loving DEAD five times over without these powers. I love ‘em. What would you mutate, Zin, your eyes so you don’t miss every shot? Hey! I hit them when I use my pistol! Sometimes! The aliens have invaded a German diner. All those poor people who just wanted a pancake in peace… Not a lot of cover between us and the diner. Be careful. Pincer action. Half up and to the right, half to the left. I’ll probe first… Two Floaters! They’re in hard cover behind the opposite walls. Too far away for a good shot or a grenade. Shot is not clean. I probably can’t hit them like this. Same, rocket launcher’s not accurate that far away! gently caress. Get closer then, everyone! Pulling to the left, using that Meld container as cover! I hope they don’t explode this thing all over me, I’m kinda attached to my current appearance… Here you go, Cam! Popping smoke! Ack! One flew behind me! I can see three of ‘em in the diner’s kitchen! Two more sectoids too! We’re surrounded. Seven total. Ack. Thin their numbers, fast! Zin, blow up two of them in the kitchen with your grenade. Eva, take out the far sectoids with a rocket. Everyone else, pick a target of opportunity! Rocket away! Sectoids down. Oh, I hope whoever owns that car isn’t mad at me… Great shot. I’m rushing the far floater! Not even close! drat I love these reflexes! This guy’s toast. Zin, Leroy? Taking down the floater by the door! Haha, welcome to Denny’s, bitch! Got ‘em! No-scope kills: SIX! Hahahahahahaha! Dirty creature! You are MINE! Three more behind the diner, I think these are the last ones. Maneuvering around the cars… One down! I got one on the right, who’s got the last one? Once again, guns fail me! BAH! Just give me a satchel of grenades already, will you, command? Like hell. Peekaboo!  Easy peasy. Let’s clean up the bodies and go home. Hmm. So, you have no regrets about your mutations? The powers are obviously really cool. I have a… couple regrets about the other mutations, though. Socially, I mean. I’m so mutated my own mom wouldn’t recognize me. Watkins, you’re a hardcore badass of the top caliber, so I’m giving you the biggest promotion available to field agents: colonel-class. And Zinchenko, against my better judgement I’m giving you a pay increase too. Hahaha, yesssss. I’m climbing the ladders! Now, let’s see what Germany sent us. Five bucks says she’s a woman. Pfft, not taking that bet. Actually…yes. Huh, she’s not German, she’s an American soldier who was stationed in Germany. Codenamed “Rhino.” …wait a minute. Oh my loving GOD. Cam? Is that you? MOM?!To be continued!
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Nov 2, 2014 22:22
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Ahahaha, you wile bastard. As for that mission, if I'd gotten surrounded like that, I'd probably have said "gently caress that" and restarted.
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Nov 2, 2014 22:31
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...Awkwaaard...
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Nov 2, 2014 22:31
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Hurrah for everyone's Favourite grenadier/sniper making an appearance. Then being awful with guns.
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Nov 2, 2014 22:45
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Veloxyll posted:Hurrah for everyone's Favourite grenadier/sniper making an appearance. What are the odds he's gonna turn up more and more. Snipers have the best aim growth. e: rank him up then stick him in a suit, maybe he needs something bigger to be able to hit with. Or just punch things.
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Nov 2, 2014 22:48
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His AIM is now 68. Just barely better than a rookie.
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Nov 2, 2014 23:44
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Speedball posted:His AIM is now 68. Just barely better than a rookie. Jesus, how have you not sent him round the back of the woodshed and put two slugs in his skull?
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Nov 2, 2014 23:52
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Speedball posted:His AIM is now 68. Just barely better than a rookie. As a matter of interest, what's Watkins aim now? Since at this point, it can't get any better. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Nov 3, 2014 00:03
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Stephen9001 posted:As a matter of interest, what's Watkins aim now? Since at this point, it can't get any better. Cameron Watkins: Will 105, Aim 93 Monique Leroy: Will 78, Aim 91 Bar-Lev: Will 97, Aim 104 (whoa!) Eva: Will 59, Aim 82 Latisha Watkins: Will 77, Aim 78 Alicia Gomez: Will 45, Aim 89 Hugo: Will 81, Aim 78 Zinchenko: Will 61, Aim 68 Hilda Van Doorn: Will 91, Aim 98 Zhang: Will 75, Aim 78. SHIV: Aim 85
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Nov 3, 2014 00:23
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Wait, so does Bar-Lev has pretty much perfect aim now? Does it work on a percentage basis?
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Nov 3, 2014 00:26
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ViggyNash posted:Wait, so does Bar-Lev has pretty much perfect aim now? Does it work on a percentage basis? Reduced by alien defense values (in cover, hardened armor, elevation). That said, she almost never misses...EVER. The last time she missed, it was the shot that could have saved Allen's life. 
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Nov 3, 2014 00:31
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Wow, poor old Zinchenko really is rubbish.
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Nov 3, 2014 00:51
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Speedball posted:Reduced by alien defense values (in cover, hardened armor, elevation). That said, she almost never misses...EVER. Oh man... that's poetically depressing.
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Nov 3, 2014 00:54
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ViggyNash posted:Wait, so does Bar-Lev has pretty much perfect aim now? Does it work on a percentage basis? Assuming an alien out of cover and close enough that distance penalties don't kick in? Yes, yes she does. The math in xcom is really simple, your chance to hit on any shot is simply your aim + any bonuses(Proximity, scope, etc) - cover and enemy defense bonuses(20% for light cover, 40 for heavy)
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Nov 3, 2014 01:44
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Speedball posted:Cameron Watkins: Will 105, Aim 93 Look at how much better than most of the humans SHIV is. Ocular organs are inferior to SHIVCom
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Nov 3, 2014 02:57
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Archenteron posted:Look at how much better than most of the humans SHIV is. Ocular organs are inferior to SHIVCom Ah, but humans have the power of chest-high walls! Also known as 'Cover' As just about every shooter lately has shown, chest-high walls is the true path to victory!
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Nov 3, 2014 03:45
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aerion111 posted:Ah, but humans have the power of chest-high walls! You forget, the SHIV is a chest-high wall! It has incorporated this power into its very being!
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Nov 3, 2014 03:48
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Speedball posted:Reduced by alien defense values (in cover, hardened armor, elevation). That said, she almost never misses...EVER. That miss explains Bar-Lev's high accuracy in my headcanon.
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Nov 3, 2014 04:03
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:You forget, the SHIV is a chest-high wall! It has incorporated this power into its very being! That still just makes it a good support character, not a good main one. Dreamsicle posted:That miss explains Bar-Lev's high accuracy in my headcanon. I had a similar thought myself. X-Com soldiers don't have roboticly perfect morale like some game-characters do, after all, so it's possible she's pushing her limits just that bit harder so it doesn't happen again.
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Nov 3, 2014 04:21
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Dreamsicle posted:That miss explains Bar-Lev's high accuracy in my headcanon. Mine too, you've anticipated a part where she's gonna mention that.
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Nov 3, 2014 04:33
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Wow, that some pretty low Will for Doc Gomez there... Even if she's only a Sergeant, stat growth through promotions isn't gonna get it up that high in the end. And I forget, what rank is Zhang at the moment? Still a Captain? His stats should fill out ok once he gets a couple more promotions.
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Nov 3, 2014 06:19
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GhostStalker posted:Wow, that some pretty low Will for Doc Gomez there... Even if she's only a Sergeant, stat growth through promotions isn't gonna get it up that high in the end. I used the random stats, and he was in the low 100s at the Colonel rank, which made him an absurdly accurate heavy.
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Nov 3, 2014 06:27
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GhostStalker posted:Wow, that some pretty low Will for Doc Gomez there... Even if she's only a Sergeant, stat growth through promotions isn't gonna get it up that high in the end. There's a thing from officer school that makes it so that the squad leader's will score is substituted for everyone else, if higher. (I have never figured out how to determine who is "squad leader", but there you go.)
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Nov 3, 2014 06:39
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SwissArmyDruid posted:There's a thing from officer school that makes it so that the squad leader's will score is substituted for everyone else, if higher. (I have never figured out how to determine who is "squad leader", but there you go.) Forgot about that since I don't have EW. That'll probably help make sure she won't panic at the wrong time.
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Nov 3, 2014 06:46
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The squad leader gets a little gold star on their rank icon. As for picking them, I think it's the highest ranked dude you send out? The only real other effect that it has is that if the leader dies the rest of the squad gets a will decrease for the mission remainder.
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Nov 3, 2014 06:47
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