House-buying thread - Why is everyone involved in this process so deeply stupid?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > House-buying thread - Why is everyone involved in this process so deeply stupid?

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Jastiger: Oct 11, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Antifreeze Head posted:

The bit about the hoarder wife next door may have unfairly coloured your view of the neighbourhood. While its high point was clearly from when it was built in the 1910s until probably sometime around the second world war, it hit a low and is now coming back. Like pretty much everywhere that isn't filled with honest to goodness mansions, neighbourhoods have ups and downs and this house is in a place moving out of a down.

The neighbour with the hoarder wife divorced her and she moved out a few years ago, so now he's fixing up his place, across the back lane is a couple that is fixing up their place, two door down was redone within the past five or maybe 10 years, there is really quite a lot of work being done on a lot of homes in the area.

And the house itself really isn't falling apart, everything that is weird about it is on top of something quite solid. The last guy, despite some design decisions that nobody else would agree with, did make some important upgrades. All the old galvanized plumbing was decommissioned ages ago so there's new copper, the foundation was shored up with a new interior wall, the old furnace was upgraded to high-efficiency and the fuse box was replaced with a 100 amp breaker box.

That work was all done well, because he didn't do it. I know that because his ex-wife came by to steal some of the apples from my trees one day and we chatted for a while. She stayed involved in his life quite a bit after their separation and looked after some things like that for him.

So really, it was actually farther ahead than some of the other homes of its vintage. And compared to them, there really isn't that much extra work that needed to be done here versus any other house that age that needed some modernization. I mean, if you're going to the extent of ripping down plaster and lath, it isn't that much worse when it is covered in another half inch of drywall mud and some towels. Plus, with it looking like the crazy bus pulling into town and never ever leaving, it allowed me to get the place for tens of thousands of dollars less than it would of had there not been towels on the wall and flowers on the ceiling.

Yeah it probably did.

Its just different tastes I guess. I don't think I could live in a house more than 40 years old. Its just silly to me that people like living in places mega old with small roomers, fire hazards, hazardous materials, inefficient out dated infrastructure, etc. Why take on the risk?

Different strokes and all.

Guinness posted:

Also some people just like projects. Yeah it's a ton of work but something about doing so much yourself and making all the decisions about how it all comes together can be really rewarding.

It's like fixing up an old car or motorcycle or something like that. Sure, you could go buy a new/newer one for the same money but there's no project aspect to doing that.

I like projects too. Like taking down the wall paper, staining the deck, putting up new lighting. But rebuilding a house...ehhhh.

# ? Nov 2, 2014 19:03

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 04:58

PDP-1: Oct 12, 2004; It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.

Since we've turned to renovation chat here's a few pics of my ugly place that is in a really nice neighborhood. Luckily the structure of the house is in good shape and the utilities have all been brought up to code so it's mainly a matter of toning down the aesthetics to something that matches the traditional feel of the older neighborhood better.

The master bathroom features a free-standing purple tile wall with industrial light fixtures and a trapezoidal table for your shin-bumping pleasure. That closet on the right is also free-standing, the sinks are located between it and the main wall behind. The corrugated sheet metal accent near the tub is a common theme both inside and outside the home. The shower (not pictured) is made of bare concrete cinderblocks and has a door so you can easily step outside naked if you want. Optionally, you could save the trouble of going outside to moon your neighbors by just taking a bath in that tub with lots of windows.

This backyard shot shows more sheet metal accents, the pink-orange color of the exterior and the purple trim. That door in the metal box is the shower door I mentioned earlier. I think the metal box was supposed to be an outdoor shower at one point but they built it with non-treated lumber so it's just a rotten mess now. The shrubs were placed too close to the house and keep moisture in so there's a lot of soft spots on the window/door frames.

The kitchen isn't super-awful, but is definitely decorated in a way that was probably considered 'modern' sometime around 1980. The bright colors and angles give me a Max Headroom vibe. The upper shelves on the left are hung with 1/4-20 threaded rod from some unistrut channels that are bolted to the ceiling. I think the idea with the lower shelves is that you're supposed to put your stuff on those wicker baskets. You can't see the bottom of the central blue table's leg in this pic, but it's a metal sculpture that looks like a rocket ship. The yellow dividers on the right are more free-standing wall segments, and there are random little windows everywhere including one under the sink.

The house is in a traditional neighborhood (a registered historic architecture district even) and stands out like a sore thumb. Once I tone down the more garish bits it should fit in much better and be a lot more appealing to the average buyer. Also the backyard is huge, used to be part of a city park, and the lot is just a 10 minute walk from the center of downtown so when the home isn't so funky it's gonna be a great place to live.

# ? Nov 2, 2014 19:42

FISHMANPET: Mar 3, 2007; Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams

Shut up that house is perfect

# ? Nov 2, 2014 20:48

Bloody Queef: Mar 23, 2012; by zen death robot

Jastiger posted:

Yeah it probably did.

Its just different tastes I guess. I don't think I could live in a house more than 40 years old. Its just silly to me that people like living in places mega old with small roomers, fire hazards, hazardous materials, inefficient out dated infrastructure, etc. Why take on the risk?

What's up with the aversion to older homes? Once the plumbing, electric and HVAC are updated (as the previous poster's was) The no longer have the downsides you listed.

New places are apt to begin or continue settling, be made from lovely or subpar materials and run the risk of having a major defect due to lovely construction. Older homes have an equal potential to be constructed shittily, but it would have fallen down years ago or the flaw would be apparent.

But enjoy your 3“ tall moulding made out of particle board quality pine, hollow doors, hardwood floors too thin to sand if they need refinishing and paper thin walls in a new house.

# ? Nov 2, 2014 21:04

Jastiger: Oct 11, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Bloody Queef posted:

What's up with the aversion to older homes? Once the plumbing, electric and HVAC are updated (as the previous poster's was) The no longer have the downsides you listed.

New places are apt to begin or continue settling, be made from lovely or subpar materials and run the risk of having a major defect due to lovely construction. Older homes have an equal potential to be constructed shittily, but it would have fallen down years ago or the flaw would be apparent.

But enjoy your 3“ tall moulding made out of particle board quality pine, hollow doors, hardwood floors too thin to sand if they need refinishing and paper thin walls in a new house.

I dunno. I'm spoiled maybe, but I like rooms more "open". I don't like the rooms tiny. I grew jaded when I'd look at new houses with TONS of square footage, but its all either in staircases, tiny rooms, or hallway. Does me no good if all of the space is in this fancy dancy closet that links the master to the attic or some nonsense.
Even if you update the HVAC and plumbing, you're still left with an old structure with small rooms and poor flow moving to and from areas. You even gotta watch out for the potential electrical problems like rewiring the whole house. It just seems like a ton of work for little pay off.

My wife is where you are though, for sure. I'd LOVE 3" tall moulding out of board quality pine because I live in the house to live, not admire that I have hand carved moulding that does absolutely nothing and provides no function. Its cheaper to replace a door than it is to replace the WALL so a modern door fits. And with modern "cheap" flooring guess who ISN'T getting splinters every time he slides across the floor? This guy!

Reno-chat why is there a window UNDER the sink? Is there a picture of that?

# ? Nov 2, 2014 21:29

rekamso: Jan 22, 2008

Jastiger posted:

Its just different tastes I guess. I don't think I could live in a house more than 40 years old. Its just silly to me that people like living in places mega old with small roomers, fire hazards, hazardous materials, inefficient out dated infrastructure, etc. Why take on the risk?

Some of those 100 yr old homes will be standing longer than homes built in the last few decades.

My late-1970s home was set to rot away in another 10-15 years due to the continually deferred maintenance of the previous owner.

# ? Nov 2, 2014 21:32

moana: Jun 18, 2005; one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web

What was that awesome post somebody made in this thread: don't buy an old house because X, Y, Z, don't buy a new house because of A, B, C?

Do never buy, indeed.

I've decided to sell next spring if the gods are willing. Will give me some time to make small improvements (painting the bathroom, fixing up rough spots in the flooring) and hopefully we'll have found a place to buy up north before then so we can move most of our poo poo out of there and stage it properly. Right now it's cluttered as hell. Not towels-on-walls bad, but not really showable.

# ? Nov 2, 2014 22:34

Antifreeze Head: Jun 6, 2005; It begins; Pillbug

Jastiger posted:

I dunno. I'm spoiled maybe, but I like rooms more "open". I don't like the rooms tiny.

I'm no fan of tiny rooms either, but it is no great trick to make rooms bigger. Load bearing walls limit that somewhat, but big rear end lintels can make things appear quite open. You might lose a room, but those around it get larger.

Bloody Queef posted:

What's up with the aversion to older homes? Once the plumbing, electric and HVAC are updated (as the previous poster's was) The no longer have the downsides you listed.

Particular to some regions, the thickness of the walls is also a concern because it impacts the R value of the insulation that you can cram into the walls. Older homes where I am have four inch walls (R12 with regular fibreglass) while newer ones have six inch walls (R20). The old insulation also prevented electrical from running through the walls as K&T gives off a lot of heat and can't be inside an insulated wall. That means rooms often have too few outlets for modern living.

My work-around on that is to run new electrical lines through a three inch wall I built on the inside of the existing exterior walls. That's a win-win as my 24 foot long living/dining room now has 10 outlets instead of three and R22-ish instead of R10.

Same applies to windows. Generally people here won't remove fancy leaded glass, but triple pane vinyl gets popped in ASAP to replace old wooden double (sometimes single) pane. It's also handy to do as building codes of old don't have the same standards for framing in a windows and doors, so while they're pretty stable, reframing them is a good idea just to keep the load off the window frame.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 05:17

Zhentar: Sep 28, 2003; Brilliant Master Genius

And moisture barriers (or lack thereof) can make for problems when you try to insulate and air seal. No one wrapped their buildings with Tyvek before 1967, and it's better than anything (or at least close to it) that was used before then.

The modern bare minimum is in many cases better than the old state of the art.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 06:01

Tricky Ed: Aug 18, 2010; It is important to avoid confusion. This is the one that's okay to lick.

moana posted:

What was that awesome post somebody made in this thread: don't buy an old house because X, Y, Z, don't buy a new house because of A, B, C?

This one?

Tricky Ed posted:

Old construction is better than new construction because older homes were usually overbuilt in structural terms. They'll also usually be in better parts of town, in more established neighborhoods, and closer to city centers and services because they were built before everyone drove everywhere. Old houses were built by tradespeople who treated construction as a career and took pride in their work. They were built to last forever. You'll have a yard and a sidewalk that leads somewhere you want to go. You'll have a cozy fireplace and a formal living room.

New construction is better than old construction because it follows modern building codes. You'll have outlets every six feet, laundry connections, a two car garage, cable in multiple rooms, and more than one light in any given room. You'll have a living room built with a TV in mind and a kitchen built with a microwave and dishwasher in mind. You'll have a media room rather than a formal living room. You'll have insulation in the walls and the ceiling, efficient appliances, a complete HVAC system, double-paned windows, and insulation-wrapped hot water pipes. You'll have bedrooms that fit king size beds, an eat-in kitchen, and a bathroom that's wider than a bathtub. You'll have special foundation reinforcement (where applicable) or storm-proof roofing. You won't have to worry about your roof for 20 years.

Old construction is worse than new construction because the walls hide horrible problems, like support beams cut in half, old wiring, leaky pipes with lead solder, and asbestos-lined heating ducts. There are never enough outlets and if you use the hair dryer and the microwave at the same time you'll have a brownout. Your drainage to the sewer, if it's present, will be clay pipes full of roots. You'll have tiny rooms with low ceilings and a tiny kitchen that doesn't have a dishwasher. You'll have the most inefficient heating system possible, and if there's air conditioning it will triple your electrical expenses and drop the temperature by 5 degrees and drip water down the inside of your wall. You'll have single-pane aluminum windows and no insulation in the walls. Your roof will have three layers of shingles on it or will be leaking or both.

New construction is worse than old construction because it was built by people hired that morning in a Home Depot parking lot, using the minimum amount of material in order to meet the too-lax building codes, designed to last through the three year warranty and not a day more. New construction sometimes employs new techniques in an incorrect manner, which often ends up trapping moisture somewhere in the walls and causing horrific mold or rot problems. New construction is all about the finishes and not about the structure or mechanicals. You'll get a yard that funnels water into your foundation covered in some sod and maybe a 2-year-old tree. Your brand new roof was flashed incorrectly and water's running underneath all of it.

All of the above is true, simultaneously. Home ownership is awesome.

Tricky Ed fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Nov 3, 2014

# ? Nov 3, 2014 07:49

Dik Hz: Feb 22, 2004; Fun with Science

Moana, why don't you add that to the OP or second post? It's perfect.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 13:05

uwaeve: Oct 21, 2010; focus this time so i don't have to keep telling you idiots what happened; Lipstick Apathy

Antifreeze Head posted:

So how much did they have to pay you to take this house?

# ? Nov 3, 2014 18:39

eddiewalker: Apr 28, 2004; Arrrr ye landlubber

Is there any way to estimate my current expected payoff date with just my current balance, interest rate and my monthly principle+interest breakdown?

I spent years randomly throwing extra payments in, and I had an Excel sheet that automatically updated my projected payoff date, but that file is long gone.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 19:02

Keyser_Soze: May 5, 2009; Pillbug

My 2005 built house had awesome electrical/plumbing/layout but horrible, cheap infrastructure (patched together OSB second story floors, weird spots were some drunk worker drove 10 nails in a bunch on one floor, rusting nails all over the place, bad fit on the framing using messed up looking 2x4s, missing insulation in parts of the attic that couldn't be seen, failing stucco requiring full warranty repairs). I saw a lot of the internal stuff just pulling up the carpets to replace with wood floors as well as when I renovated the showers. Exterior wise, the stucco looked horrible and was cracking everywhere, although it would be covered by warranty (but your house gets hammered on for 6 weeks during the remediation.)

My current 1980 built house obviously has dated parts and a bad layout but really solid well put together framing. It was a bitch knocking down the kitchen soffits.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 19:35

Mat_Drinks: Nov 18, 2002; mmm this nitromethane gets my supercharger runnin'

Tricky Ed posted:

This one?

That is such a fantastic post. I've owned both new and old (currently old) and there is so much to love and hate about them.

I have to occasionally focus on the details of my house that I like to forget about how much I hate the kitchen that I won't be able to tear out for another year or two.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 20:01

FISHMANPET: Mar 3, 2007; Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams

eddiewalker posted:

Is there any way to estimate my current expected payoff date with just my current balance, interest rate and my monthly principle+interest breakdown?

I spent years randomly throwing extra payments in, and I had an Excel sheet that automatically updated my projected payoff date, but that file is long gone.

It's a pretty easy calculation to recreate, but also I just googled "payoff calculator" and found this, just put in your principle, interest rate, and payment, and it will tell you how many payments. I'm sure there's a million similar little things online.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 20:26

moana: Jun 18, 2005; one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web

Dik Hz posted:

Moana, why don't you add that to the OP or second post? It's perfect.

done, LOL that is such a great post. DO NEVER BUY!

# ? Nov 3, 2014 20:49

Jastiger: Oct 11, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Woohoo got a new 220 outlet for the dryer! Let the clothes washing commence!

Great, water all over the floor in the laundry room. loving homeownership.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 22:32

Elephanthead: Sep 11, 2008; Toilet Rascal

Jastiger posted:

Woohoo got a new 220 outlet for the dryer! Let the clothes washing commence!

Great, water all over the floor in the laundry room. loving homeownership.

Do only buy houses with laundry room floor rains.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 22:35

Jastiger: Oct 11, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Elephanthead posted:

Do only buy houses with laundry room floor rains.

What is that? Luckily the washer sits in a washer-sitty-in thingie. Unluckily, how the gently caress do you get water out of it lol.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 22:36

Kalli: Jun 2, 2001

Think he missed a D on that rains.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 22:49

WeaselWeaz: Apr 11, 2004; Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Biscuits and Gravy.

Jastiger posted:

What is that? Luckily the washer sits in a washer-sitty-in thingie. Unluckily, how the gently caress do you get water out of it lol.

I would think there's a drain? Otherwise grab a towel and wring it into a bucket.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 23:07

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Time to buy a Shop-Vac.

# ? Nov 3, 2014 23:24

canyoneer: Sep 13, 2005; I only have canyoneyes for you

WeaselWeaz posted:

I would think there's a drain? Otherwise grab a towel and wring it into a bucket.

If you have any quantity of tile in the house, you want one of those huge rag mops like are used in commercial applications/restaurants. They're pretty cheap at Costco, and work way better than the stupid sponge mops.
They can also absorb like a half gallon of water before wringing them out.

# ? Nov 4, 2014 00:01

Sephiroth_IRA: Mar 31, 2010

Gat Dayum!

Old Property Taxes: $1200 a year.
Updated Property Taxes: $390.69 a year.

Looks like my monhtly payment is going to go down about 68 bucks to $257.

Yeah!

Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Nov 4, 2014

# ? Nov 4, 2014 00:14

Christobevii3: Jul 3, 2006

What did you do? Park a lot of broken cars out front or something?

# ? Nov 4, 2014 00:38

daggerdragon: Jan 22, 2006; My titan engine can kick your titan engine's ass.

Jastiger posted:

What is that? Luckily the washer sits in a washer-sitty-in thingie. Unluckily, how the gently caress do you get water out of it lol.

Shopvacs are a homeowner's best friend. You don't need it until you do, and when you do, you thank God, Allah, and FSM that you have it.

# ? Nov 4, 2014 00:52

Sephiroth_IRA: Mar 31, 2010

Christobevii3 posted:

What did you do? Park a lot of broken cars out front or something?

Well, my property value isn't that high (small house, really great area though) and I now live in SC but right next to the NC state line. My county essentially charges people a much higher rate when they move in until they prove that they're legal residents. It's supposed to be for people that are renting the homes out but my guess is a few people never fill out the forms and pay the premium.

# ? Nov 4, 2014 00:56

Jastiger: Oct 11, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

daggerdragon posted:

Shopvacs are a homeowner's best friend. You don't need it until you do, and when you do, you thank God, Allah, and FSM that you have it.

Those guys handle water ok? Huh. Didn't figure. Leaky faucets be pissin me off. I'm not mario, I having trouble

# ? Nov 4, 2014 01:22

Sephiroth_IRA: Mar 31, 2010

I believe you just have to remove the filter when sucking up water but yeah they work great.

# ? Nov 4, 2014 01:27

adorai: Nov 2, 2002; 10/27/04 Never forget; Grimey Drawer

daggerdragon posted:

Shopvacs are a homeowner's best friend. You don't need it until you do, and when you do, you thank God, Allah, and FSM that you have it.

worst of all is when you need it, but the local big box store is sold out because everyone else needed one too.

# ? Nov 4, 2014 02:04

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Anyone else ever have to buy an overpriced plunger at 3 am?

# ? Nov 4, 2014 02:39

Sephiroth_IRA: Mar 31, 2010

skipdogg posted:

Anyone else ever have to buy an overpriced plunger at 3 am?

Dollar Tree has them if you ever need another one.

Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Nov 4, 2014

# ? Nov 4, 2014 14:48

Antifreeze Head: Jun 6, 2005; It begins; Pillbug

Where do you live that Dollar Tree is open at 3 AM?

# ? Nov 4, 2014 15:15

Sephiroth_IRA: Mar 31, 2010

Antifreeze Head posted:

Where do you live that Dollar Tree is open at 3 AM?

They only cost a buck so we got 2 just in case :smug:

One for the commode and one spare one for the sink/bathtub if that's ever necessary.

seriously I didn't think about the time. Sorry that happened to you

but I bet you could return it. :devil:

Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Nov 4, 2014

# ? Nov 4, 2014 15:15

Pryor on Fire: May 14, 2013; they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary

I used to live in a town so trashy they had a big handwritten sign saying "no returns on plungers" at the local hardware store. Thank god for education and escaping shithole towns.

# ? Nov 4, 2014 18:59

Sephiroth_IRA: Mar 31, 2010

When I moved into my house I noticed a lot of the drains were real slow so I just bought an extra plunger and now they're fine. I've heard people complain about tree roots getting into the lines in my area but so far I don't see any sign of that.

I just need to install my new thermostat and buy some warm house clothes before it gets any colder.

Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Nov 4, 2014

# ? Nov 4, 2014 19:28

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

So it turns out that most of the sewer line is fine, except for the 30ish feet that's sagging, most of which sags so bad that the camera was fully submerged. The sag is under a bathtub, through the kitchen, and leading right into the end of the garage, all under the concrete slab.

With about 500 bucks in yearly maintenance (basically power wash the line to clean out the poo poo), plumber says that we would probably never experience a problem. Cost to repair is ballpark 30 to 50k, for a house purchase price of 450k.

Area is a seller's market, so I am considering sticking around and eating the yearly maintenance . Alternatively, do never buy?

# ? Nov 4, 2014 22:42

baquerd: Jul 2, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

QuarkJets posted:

With about 500 bucks in yearly maintenance (basically power wash the line to clean out the poo poo), plumber says that we would probably never experience a problem. Cost to repair is ballpark 30 to 50k, for a house purchase price of 450k.

I'm no plumber, but power washing things tends to rapidly accelerate wear and tear. I'd worry about one year the pipe bursts a seam and now you're SOL eating the cost anyway.

# ? Nov 4, 2014 23:32

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 04:58

Christobevii3: Jul 3, 2006

$450k house with upkeep of a run down Winnebago??? What the...

# ? Nov 4, 2014 23:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > House-buying thread - Why is everyone involved in this process so deeply stupid?

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