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We only wear our lambskin twice: when we get initiated, and at our funeral. Also: was set to give the EA lecture last night, but the candidate backed out. Ended up doing the FC instead, which is okay, as it's my favorite. I'll be giving the EA a month from now, which will put me at all three lectures given in open lodge in my first year. I have to brag on that, forgive me.
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Oct 21, 2014 15:04
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That strikes me as utterly bizarre. The apron is something you are invested with as a symbol of your initiation, and then in its progressive designs, your distinguished advancement as a mason. To be buried in the apron you were initiated with would be to buried with the apron of an EAF. Do you yanks not use different aprons for the three degrees?
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Oct 21, 2014 15:08
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Loomer posted:That strikes me as utterly bizarre. The apron is something you are invested with as a symbol of your initiation, and then in its progressive designs, your distinguished advancement as a mason. To be buried in the apron you were initiated with would be to buried with the apron of an EAF. Do you yanks not use different aprons for the three degrees? At my lodge, at least, no. Plain white, officers have their respective badges of their office embroidered on theirs. I like it being plain, as we therefore meet on the level in that manner, and it draws repeated attention to the lambskin as an emblem of innocence.
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Oct 21, 2014 15:12
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To chime in on this discussion, Scotland is different again. Each individual lodge is empowered by Grand Lodge of Scotland to have the authority to make its own choice as to the colouring of regalia, as well as any particular lodge 'badge' For example, my mother lodge is a dark green with silver coloured writing, and our badge is the head of a ram.
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Oct 21, 2014 15:32
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You'd think for a bunch of fellows secretly controlling all major events that happen in the world we could at least agree on a uniform.
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Oct 21, 2014 15:42
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Loomer posted:That strikes me as utterly bizarre. The apron is something you are invested with as a symbol of your initiation, and then in its progressive designs, your distinguished advancement as a mason. To be buried in the apron you were initiated with would be to buried with the apron of an EAF. Do you yanks not use different aprons for the three degrees? Here in Yankeeland, we don't add symbols to the apron (e.g. rosettes or something), but rather we wear it in different manners according to our rank. And like was mentioned, officers wear the badge of their office on their apron.
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Oct 21, 2014 15:56
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My grandfather was a mason but he hasn't attended meetings in at least 40 years due to some dispute. It seems like he's still a member though, since I was able to join OES after calling his old lodge. His health is at the point where we are starting to plan for his funeral. Would the lodge loan us an apron if we can't find his?
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Oct 23, 2014 00:29
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legsarerequired posted:My grandfather was a mason but he hasn't attended meetings in at least 40 years due to some dispute. It seems like he's still a member though, since I was able to join OES after calling his old lodge. His health is at the point where we are starting to plan for his funeral. Would the lodge loan us an apron if we can't find his? They'd probably give you one. An apron is the least you could ask for in time of mourning. Especially from your/his lodge.
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Oct 23, 2014 04:55
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This evening I went to the Extinguishing of the Lights ceremony for a lodge that shares our temple. It was bittersweet, but also celebratory. Brethren from all over the district attended and the room was packed. Pretty interesting evening.
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Oct 23, 2014 05:22
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Flying Fortress posted:This evening I went to the Extinguishing of the Lights ceremony for a lodge that shares our temple. It was bittersweet, but also celebratory. Brethren from all over the district attended and the room was packed. Pretty interesting evening. You'll have to elaborate for those of us outside your jurisdiction. Was the lodge reponed (had its charter taken back?) or something else?
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Oct 23, 2014 05:29
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I'm on my third lambskin. I'm probably gonna give it back to the lodge next time I make a meeting and just buy a really nice one. And they won't lend you an apron. Considering the circumstances, give you one. And give him a proper farewell.
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Oct 23, 2014 06:54
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legsarerequired posted:My grandfather was a mason but he hasn't attended meetings in at least 40 years due to some dispute. It seems like he's still a member though, since I was able to join OES after calling his old lodge. His health is at the point where we are starting to plan for his funeral. Would the lodge loan us an apron if we can't find his? They'll not only give you an apron if they can, they'll do a masonic service for him if you ask it. (And, if they're like my lodge, if they can't give you an apron they'll either whip around to buy one or a brother will offer his. That much I am sure is a commonality in aprons even though our jurisdictions apparently differ markedly in other regalia aspects!)
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Oct 23, 2014 08:50
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Innerguard posted:You'll have to elaborate for those of us outside your jurisdiction. Was the lodge reponed (had its charter taken back?) or something else? There are a number of factors, but no funny business or anything. Most of the members of that lodge were getting rather elderly and they were having difficulty filling Officer chairs for a number of years.In the end they decided to dissolve their lodge. My Temple building is shared between several different lodges and the majority of the guys in the now closed lodge were affiliated with others, so most will continue to be active in Masonry locally. There's likely more to the story but I don't know all the details. The closure was not due to any Masonic violations though. I was speaking with a past master in my lodge about it and he explained that there was a period of time (in Canada at least) where overall membership was declining, but the number of new lodges was increasing. Eventually things got out of balance and couldn't sustain that many separate groups, so this closure and another one coming up later this year are part of a process to restore stability.
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Oct 23, 2014 13:07
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I need to amend an earlier statement I made re: Prince Hall, which was that AFAIK our GL (UGLNSWACT) had not recognized PH masonry as distinct. As it turns out, it has done so for PH GLs in 27 American States, the Bahamas, and the Caribbean.
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Oct 25, 2014 11:41
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Do you know how that is phrased? Usually in the states when Prince Hall gets recognized the language is something to the effect that Prince Hall is recognized in all states wherein that state's Grand Lodge recognizes Prince Hall. That way that as soon as one of the hold out states mends the divide, nothing has to happen for that state's Prince Hall to be also be recognized.
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Oct 25, 2014 12:08
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It's specific to the PH GL itself, so presumably a lodge of PH masons operating in a state where they are not recognized by that GL - say for argument's sake, Montana - would still be recognized so long as they're operating under the jurisdiction of the PHGL for Montana or Iowa or whatever. We recognize all American 'regular' GLs, and have no specific rule regarding PH masonry as it is beyond our usual experience, save for the listing of recognized PH GLs.
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Oct 25, 2014 12:24
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Loomer posted:It's specific to the PH GL itself, so presumably a lodge of PH masons operating in a state where they are not recognized by that GL - say for argument's sake, Montana - would still be recognized so long as they're operating under the jurisdiction of the PHGL for Montana or Iowa or whatever. To be detail oriented and pedantic (as I am a lodge Secretary after all), I'll point out that since 1999 in Montana we are in full recognition with the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Oregon, which holds jurisdiction over Prince Hall lodges in Oregon, Idaho and Montana. I'll double check the recognition book next time I'm at the temple, but I've been told there's a PH Lodge in Great Falls. I hardly ever travel in-state though and so haven't been to visit.
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Oct 25, 2014 18:28
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Odd question posed to me today by a friend who's aware I'm a mason but is not one himself: What would we do if a conjoined twin wished to join, one with a single body but two aware and competent heads ala the character in American Horror Story's current season? And what would we do if one head wished to join but not the other? Would the relevant Ancient Landmark apply? EDIT: On personal consideration, and with no small amount of displeasure as I myself would not be allowed to join a lodge under a strict reading of that certain landmark, I don't believe you could initiate in the latter case. In the former case, I believe you could, applying the precedent of allowing freemasons who are maimed - e.g. lacking a leg or arm - to be initiated, as is the custom in my jurisdiction. Given that the extent of debility can be such that an individual with but one arm can be initiated (established in a 2013 initiation of a man; the overriding factor being that of a man's dignity and suitability to the goals of the craft as opposed to physical ability), an individual with control of only one arm and one leg of a pair would not be innately disqualified from the Craft. The issue that then arises is if one twin wishes to join and the other does not. At the least, it would involve initiating a man who is not of a suitable character (that is, who is not predisposed towards the ends and goals of the Craft and who will hold no loyalty to his lodge) and at the worst, it would involve a blatant breach of the obligations to do so (that other person being impossible to prevent from imparting the modes of recognition and other secrets of the Craft to by reason of his necessary and unavoidable presence in the Lodge). It also raises an issue of lodge elections. Can you, in all fairness, elect one half of the pair to an office and not the other? The chairs are not permitted to be shared between two people, and so necessarily such a personage would be unable to progress to the Chair, even if it would be terribly convenient to have your IPM sitting quite literally on your shoulder. Loomer fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Oct 28, 2014 |
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Oct 28, 2014 06:15
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Nonmason here but wouldn't forcing the uninterested head to lodge conflict with the family before masonry ideal? It seems to me his membership would be seen as unfavorable by the investigation team well before the issue of security could even arise.
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Nov 2, 2014 03:29
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http://www.coloradofreemasons.org/pdfDocuments/library/HistoryOfTheAncientAndHonorableFraternity.pdf Has anyone read this? Is it accurate? Unbiased? Would it be too esoteric for a nonmason to understand fully? Found a copy on eBay and it looks quite interesting.
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Nov 3, 2014 05:06
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Noctis Horrendae posted:http://www.coloradofreemasons.org/pdfDocuments/library/HistoryOfTheAncientAndHonorableFraternity.pdf I'm a Master Mason and I can barely make heads or tails of it.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:29
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Lovable Luciferian posted:I'm a Master Mason and I can barely make heads or tails of it. Excellent, time to waste a ridiculous amount of money on it and use it as a conversation piece. e: What are the Masons' actual, solid, historically proven connections to the Templars (that don't go into the realms of conspiracies)? This book has a lot of artwork depicting the Templars, so I'm curious.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:57
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Excellent, time to waste a ridiculous amount of money on it and use it as a conversation piece. I'm of the opinion that the York Rite is styled after the Knights Templar and anything more than that is fantasy. I admit I'm not very well studied on the subject so I'm sure someone else could give you a more informed opinion.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:05
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Excellent, time to waste a ridiculous amount of money on it and use it as a conversation piece. Solid, actual historically proven connections? None.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:07
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Were any of the founders of the Templars Masons, then? I'm hoping this book isn't 923 pages of 20th century conspiracy theories.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:10
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Were any of the founders of the Templars Masons, then? I'm hoping this book isn't 923 pages of 20th century conspiracy theories. The section on Utah and the Mormons looks to be accurate and hilarious.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:21
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Freemasonry was created in 1717. There were some precursors to that, obviously, since that date is when the Grand Lodge formed, and they merged a bunch of other smaller clubs, but it's the date of modern freemasonry. Anything else you hear about the history of the Lodge is essentially bullshit. We did not actually build any pyramids or temples or anything else, and we had nothing to do with the Templars.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:34
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Colonial Air Force posted:Freemasonry was created in 1717. There were some precursors to that, obviously, since that date is when the Grand Lodge formed, and they merged a bunch of other smaller clubs, but it's the date of modern freemasonry. You're telling me that the Freemasons weren't controlling the world since the dawn of time? What? e: The story I've always heard was that there was a group of stonemasons in the ~1100s onwards that called themselves Freemasons and set the foundation for the organization's rituals and all that, but that could be conspiracy theorist mumbo-jumbo.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:43
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Noctis Horrendae posted:You're telling me that the Freemasons weren't controlling the world since the dawn of time? What? It's more or less what we ourselves claim, but it's probably almost entirely untrue.
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Nov 3, 2014 20:32
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One of my favorite parts of our order is how happy we are to just straight up fabricate a history for ourselves in the name of "it's cooler that way"
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Nov 3, 2014 20:39
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As of late I have been treating people who are worth it with a similar amount of trust and friendliness as how I treat my brethren. It confuses some but all find it awesome and some comment on how they have seen me change. That is my story on how I try to make the world a better place.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:11
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Masonic guilds are a thing, "free and accepted masons" are a thing predating modern masonry since about the timeframe you mention. The guild system from which modern Freemasonry draws its model was real. Essentially, like with any craft, it took years of study and more importantly practice to become a master mason, at which point you were going to be pretty well off as a tradesman, having gone from "guy chiseling the bricks smooth at a cathedral building project" to "guy designing and overseeing the construction of cathedrals." Being "free and accepted" meant you were no longer apprenticed to someone (and so free to work anywhere for anyone) and accepted as a master (and so acknowledged as a badass). That system was in place for hundreds of years in Europe before Freemasonry as we know it now was a thing. You can see that history in many of the cathedrals in the UK. There's one in Gloucester that is particularly important as there are many marks visible as well as a stone feature carved in memory of a fallen entered apprentice. The speculative / probably entirely imaginary history of the templars has it that the templars started meeting in tandem with those guilds for protection after they were denounced. Guild meetings were truthfully very secretive because it is important to protect the secrets of a trade if you don't want to be replaced by scabs/google users when building cathedrals. However, whether that actually happened? This is a history I think would best be found in whether or not you like the story.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:22
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I've been lurking the Masonic threads for years, and am finally considering making the plunge. I'm currently London based and have a number of questions: 1) I move to different cities/countries on an annual basis. Should I wait till I settle down before I think of applying? All of the places I'm likely to travel to will have a lodge. 2) I've toured the UGLE building a number of times, and while the building is majeatic and the brothers are fantastically friendly joining the very heart of the beast seems daunting. Is UGLE itself any different to other lodges? Given that it's London I assume the dues would also be considerable. 3) Religion-wise I'm a gnostic, I know it isn't/wasn't cool in Florida, would that be a problem in Europe? Thank you for the years of being awesome 
Mecharasputin fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Nov 6, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2014 11:52
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1) This varies a lot by location. It is often the case that a lodge will not have proper right to initiate you until you have lived int he jurisdiction for X period of time. I had to wait until I had lived where I was initiated for six months before applying. In the UK I believe it's a slow process compared to the states, but that said, I'm personally in favor of getting in as soon as you can, and then you will have the opportunity to meet new brethren as a traveling man. Just go ahead and start visiting lodges and see if you find a good fit, and remember: to be one, ask one. 2) You don't join the Grand Lodge directly, but rather a subordinate lodge. I'd imagine there are a number of lodges that share the facilities. 3) Not at all.
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Nov 6, 2014 12:03
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My co-worker gave me a 15-minute lecture about what he learned from Morals and Dogma: - when you get all the degrees of freemasonry, you discover that is a giant satanic cult - masons secretly rule the world I asked him how masons could be running the government in some giant satanic conspiracy if we can't fix the mold problem in my lodge's ceiling, and he grumped away.
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Nov 6, 2014 21:19
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legsarerequired posted:My co-worker gave me a 15-minute lecture about what he learned from Morals and Dogma: That's the pretty standard anti-Masonic schtick these days, largely based on testimonials from dudes with something to sell and quotes from old hoaxes. It's really weird that anti-masonry is still a thing in this day and age, but here we are.
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Nov 6, 2014 21:58
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well the thing is you wouldn't know unless you're a 33rd, you see i used to know this guy who told me he was a preeeeeetty high ranking mason and
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Nov 6, 2014 22:02
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But in real news, the Grand Instructor of the Knights Templar of NC told me he wants me to be the next Grand Instructor, which is a 5 year appointment, meaning I would get to drive around the state telling people how badly they're doing the rituals  No but for real, it's a super honor and I'm really stoked on it.
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Nov 6, 2014 22:36
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COOL CORN posted:well the thing is you wouldn't know unless you're a 33rd, you see i used to know this guy who told me he was a preeeeeetty high ranking mason and My dad is a 33rd so obviously I'm in on it
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Nov 6, 2014 22:53
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legsarerequired posted:giant satanic conspiracy Obviously it's a grand luciferian conspiracy, geez, guys, will they ever get it right?
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Nov 7, 2014 06:36
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