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Voyager I posted:Please do this thing. I have some pretty huge choice anxiety trying to figure out how to build my heros in this game. Personally, the 1 points stat bonuses are cheap enough to be a no brainer. The 2 point stat bonuses are worth getting in the long haul, like by level 10 or so unless you're investing heavily in something. Heroes actually have pretty crappy starting stats and giving them +2 everything makes them a lot more solid without much investment. Not getting kicked around by Tier 1 units has a lot of overflow benefits, I find. I don't buy the 3 point stat upgrades unless it specifically fits my build or for a high-level hero that's out of stuff worth taking. Speaking of builds, the best way to create an effective hero is decide what you want to do with them. Melee? Ranged Attacker? Army leader? Spellcaster? Focus on one, two things max you want that hero to do and you'll be effective at it. I don't have time to talk about the specific hero types, but I'll get to it tonight if I can. I will throw in one thing though, based on recent experience. If you want a melee focused hero, use a Warlord or Rogue. Dreads are hella tough, but they have pretty much zilch for melee damage and between Musket and Fire Bomb are really great at acting as ranged tanks. Well, basically... Warlord: Melee, Leader. Rogue: Leader, Melee. Dread: Tank, Leader. Theocrat: Leader support with ranged/spells. Sorcer: Spellcaster, Ranged. Druid: Ranged, Spellcaster, minor leader. (Basically good for creeping with Fast Healing/Healing but mediocre stack leaders in the long run.) Never buy more then one +CP upgrade for a non-dedicated spellcasting hero, and even that is questionable unless you're looking at casting a specific spell. For that matter never buy situational spells, (eg Don't buy spells for a Dread, ever.) unless it's a spell you'll use (almost) every battle it's not worth it.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:21
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Arrrthritis posted:Depends on the hero and the abilities they have available. Sorcerers/Theocrats/Druids I invest much more in the army skills/spells/ranged, Warlords/Rogues/Dreadnoughts I typically build for melee & army skills (with a bit more ranged focus on the dreads b/c holy poo poo i love rifles) I was looking at that because the Prototype Rifle owns bones, especially on a unit who will likely have another powerful ability they can be using on their off turns, but I was wondering how much help I was really going to be getting out of +1 on a 30 damage attack that I use once every other turn. Thanks a bunch for the tips, madmac!
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Nov 3, 2014 19:39
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Remember that all hero ranged attacks are items that can be gotten by killing enemy heroes (or your own heroes) or made at an Arcane Forge, in a pinch. Ranged heroes should eventually have a longbow and a musket at the least.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:45
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Kajeesus posted:Remember that all hero ranged attacks are items that can be gotten by killing enemy heroes (or your own heroes) or made at an Arcane Forge, in a pinch. Ranged heroes should eventually have a longbow and a musket at the least. Seriously though that Blowpipe is terrible. Does it have any redeeming qualities over a Longbow?
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Nov 3, 2014 19:58
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Voyager I posted:Seriously though that Blowpipe is terrible. Does it have any redeeming qualities over a Longbow? Nope! The blowpipe is completely awful and should be discarded with prejudice at the first opportunity.
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Nov 3, 2014 20:19
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It's there for the mental image of a Halfling Warrior using a blowpipe to attack a Gold Dragon
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Nov 3, 2014 20:22
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Unrelated: I just got a unit of Human Archers to Elite and holy poo poo Blessed Arrows is a hell of a perk. Congratulations on getting bleeding wounds, literally half the other racial units in the game!
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Nov 3, 2014 20:26
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Priests are great to get Gold Ranked, as well. I cannot tell you how many fights i've turned into slaughters because I managed to daze a titan/dragon/T4
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Nov 3, 2014 21:16
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Apparently I'm really bad at this game when the training wheels come off. I've been trying to fight the AI on Lord, four players seals games, and I have yet to win. Half the time I'm getting boxed in and crushed early on.
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Nov 3, 2014 21:45
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Redeye Flight posted:Apparently I'm really bad at this game when the training wheels come off. I've been trying to fight the AI on Lord, four players seals games, and I have yet to win. Half the time I'm getting boxed in and crushed early on. Are you expanding/scouting/stealing aggressively? Any units you lose in combat can be quickly replaced, and as long as you're not losing masses of them, you should be gaining more income from loot and new settlement sites opening up than you're losing from attrition.
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Nov 3, 2014 21:53
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victrix posted:Are you expanding/scouting/stealing aggressively? I feel like I am, but I always wind up getting outpaced.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:13
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It cannot be emphasized enough that more cities is always better, and having many cities early in the game basically wins it for you. The builder's hall should be the first thing you build in your capital, so you can push out a settler as soon as you find a good city spot. Also conquer any independent cities that aren't friendly as soon as you can.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:19
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madmac posted:Nope! The blowpipe is completely awful and should be discarded with prejudice at the first opportunity. If the blowpipe were replaced with the blowpipe that gives 'shoot mosquito darts' it'd be a lot better. Or if it gave a poison debuff of some sort (because honestly what sort of rogue doesn't know how to poison some darts?) I just killed an AI hero and looked at their loot and holy poo poo a Cosmic Rifle. Mythical item, does 4 damage of each type and has a 2 turn cooldown. Lobsterpillar fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Nov 3, 2014 |
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Nov 3, 2014 22:32
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If it had mosquito darts, it would kneecap the longbow's usability. I feel like if you gave it a damage bonus, like Armor Piercing, in exchange for the range penalties you need to take would fit the rogue niche and make it useful while differentiating it from the longbow.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:39
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The dartgun is just there to emphasize the fact that rogues are built for backstabbing /flanking, not for shooting.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:42
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Impermanent posted:The dartgun is just there to emphasize the fact that rogues are built for backstabbing /flanking, not for shooting. This. Besides, the Rogue can already stack poison damage/armor piercing/severe poisoning onto it with his own class skills, most perks you could give it would just be redundant.
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Nov 3, 2014 23:02
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Impermanent posted:The dartgun is just there to emphasize the fact that rogues are built for backstabbing /flanking, not for shooting. Well if every ranged weapon has some benefit to it that gives you a reason to pick it up (damage type, ranged bonuses, mobility, burst damage), why should there be one ranged weapon that's just bad compared to all the others?
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Nov 4, 2014 00:10
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I usually hate when people recommend things that will never make it into the game, but what if blowguns didn't make targets react to flanking? It would fit with the sneaky theme and could keep its normal weakness compared to bows.
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Nov 4, 2014 03:12
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Arrrthritis posted:Well if every ranged weapon has some benefit to it that gives you a reason to pick it up (damage type, ranged bonuses, mobility, burst damage), why should there be one ranged weapon that's just bad compared to all the others? The ranged weapon used by warriors is also strictly worse than the other ranged weapons available. Just like the theocrat and mage getting weapons that are strictly better in situation circumstances, these weapons are designed to guide players into understanding the way a given class is meant to be used.
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Nov 4, 2014 05:06
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idk about that, though, because it still has a use that other weapons don't provide- you can reliably fire it every turn and get incredible amounts of mobility from it. The blowgun, on the other hand, has nothing that the longbow doesn't also provide. I get that rogues and warlords *should* be melee classes, but that doesn't mean they *have* to be. Build variety is a pretty good thing to have in a game like this. Arrrthritis fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 06:06
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That's why you can always grab another ranged weapon from a killed enemy hero or a dungeon. If rogues started with a good ranged weapon in addition to their incredible potential for melee damage, they would be overpowered relative to other classes. Any class can be built in any given way, but the fact that they are all oriented toward certain niches is what gives them balance in context of "what hero do I hire" decisions. (This is not perfect in the game, but it is definitely a design element.)
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Nov 4, 2014 18:37
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Do you guys like to play Standard mode mostly or Empire Building? Does anyone have any consistently good world building settings to float? I've heard that unit roaming really puts a big dent into the AI so I've been debating playing some games with that off lately. Likewise Defender Strength being set higher does seem to really hamstring the AI as I consistently see their domains filled with neutral occupied resource nodes when I tinker. Random other question: do you guys leave garrisons behind or do you "scout" your borders aggressively. I find scouting my borders is just effort I don't want to spend, and likewise having sentries and watch towers doesn't always mean I can get a unit to a city in time to defend it since sometimes the AI loves to swoop in fliers.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:23
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I think part of the reason I always wind up falling behind is spending lots of production on extensive garrisons. I'm gonna try to cut back but I always want to have at least some ranged units to prevent bandits or monsters rolling up out of the fog of war.
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Nov 4, 2014 23:42
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No one is going to attack your cities if you scout aggressively and attack them first. The only cities I keep garrisons in are the ones on the front line.
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Nov 5, 2014 00:50
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Impermanent posted:That's why you can always grab another ranged weapon from a killed enemy hero or a dungeon. If rogues started with a good ranged weapon in addition to their incredible potential for melee damage, they would be overpowered relative to other classes. Any class can be built in any given way, but the fact that they are all oriented toward certain niches is what gives them balance in context of "what hero do I hire" decisions. (This is not perfect in the game, but it is definitely a design element.) I disagree. All it would do is give the rogues more options in their early game, because as the game is currently designed, as you said, there is nothing preventing someone from sending a longbow/wand/rifle/crossbow to their rogue and ditching the blowgun at first opportunity. The "what hero do I hire" decisions are already highly mitigated by the fact that you can only hire the heroes given to you by the RNG/Resurrect hero spell and your current resources available, I doubt giving the blowgun some versatility is going to cause everyone to hold out for a rogue pull.
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Nov 5, 2014 16:19
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Guys shut up and watch this very relevant video made by the goon that does dr. mcninja: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxHslUS5DvM Sign up for your necromancer insurance today.
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Nov 5, 2014 19:57
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That is just magical. 
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Nov 5, 2014 20:49
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Wow. I hope the official forums burn down and take all the posters with them, I tossed the same video there and immediately got a screeching response (not from a dev or mod) about how it violated the forum rules for "advertising products".
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Nov 5, 2014 23:07
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Carnalfex posted:Wow. I hope the official forums burn down and take all the posters with them, I tossed the same video there and immediately got a screeching response (not from a dev or mod) about how it violated the forum rules for "advertising products".
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Nov 5, 2014 23:22
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Raygereio posted:I think that's just some sad dude who couldn't recognize a joke even if it were to punch him in the nose. I'm pretty sure that guy had his sense of humor surgically removed as a child. It's a tragedy, really.
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Nov 6, 2014 02:15
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I am an EVE player and that level of autism is flabbergasting to me.
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Nov 6, 2014 02:25
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Wow, that guy worked REALLY hard on making absolutely sure he wouldn't watch the video, didn't he?
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Nov 6, 2014 02:29
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I like Seal Victory and all but it's pretty sad to watch the AI derp off its seal by accident and lose its lead as a result. Also whenever I get a seal victory and check out my scores afterwards, I get a sinking feeling I'd probably lose the game if I had to win the old fashioned way since the AI is inevitably way ahead of me in knowledge and usually a slight edge in military on King difficulty. Also Standard game setting is so much easier than Empire Building. Buying cities early game is so nice and snow bally. Am I bad in that I've yet to build a T4 unit? I've summoned plenty but I never have time to push a T4 out in literally ALL of my games on medium setting. This was my fastest win by far on Turn 80 and I could have probably got a few out, but I really need a lot of T3s to cover the seals or else the AI gets really seal happy.
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Nov 6, 2014 03:02
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Rascyc posted:I like Seal Victory and all but it's pretty sad to watch the AI derp off its seal by accident and lose its lead as a result. Also whenever I get a seal victory and check out my scores afterwards, I get a sinking feeling I'd probably lose the game if I had to win the old fashioned way since the AI is inevitably way ahead of me in knowledge and usually a slight edge in military on King difficulty. Nah, it's pretty normal for me not to get any buildable Tier 4s unless the game really stretches on or I make a point of doing it. It's why all the "Tier 4 So OP!" complaints are so yawn-worthy. It's a giant pain in the rear end to even get them on the field and by that point they aren't really that much better then the mass Tier 3 spam you've probably been capable of long before they came around.
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Nov 6, 2014 03:33
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Yeah, when the game first came out it was much easier to have runaway economies and tier 4s were more powerful on top of that. These days lower tier units stay viable much longer, and top tier spam really only happens on absurdly large maps and/or with max difficulty AIs if they are given time to build. Having production roll over from turn to turn would certainly help make lower tier units more viable for longer, and make city production improvements more worthwhile. People have mentioned that sort of thing before though, there are several quality of life things that could be done with the building queues. Another popular one is being able to rearrange the queue without deleting and reassigning the whole thing. A drag and drop would be sweet. Also yes the 'sperg is strong in that thread.
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Nov 6, 2014 04:44
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I don't even build half the city improvements before I put a city into infinite unit spam most of the time. Which is unfortunate since Grand Palace isn't anything I like but the quest reward for it is really good iirc. Once I start taking cities from the AI, they are usually good enough anyway!
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Nov 6, 2014 05:19
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The quest reward is 10 casting points and 100 morale bonus on the palace, right? Nice if you can get it but not really something that would entice me to rush for it before I could afford to build a palace anyway. Troop production and money to support those troops is always #1 priority and the only real purpose cities have in the game. Palaces require more buildings and money invested than anything else in the game and don't really contribute much towards victory for all that time and money spent. Even if you could afford to build a palace you would likely be better served just pumping out the equivalent cost in troops. This isn't civ, there is no culture victory, you need eyes out in the field and boots on the ground to win.
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Nov 6, 2014 08:56
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Carnalfex posted:The quest reward is 10 casting points and 100 morale bonus on the palace, right? Nice if you can get it but not really something that would entice me to rush for it before I could afford to build a palace anyway. Troop production and money to support those troops is always #1 priority and the only real purpose cities have in the game. Palaces require more buildings and money invested than anything else in the game and don't really contribute much towards victory for all that time and money spent. Even if you could afford to build a palace you would likely be better served just pumping out the equivalent cost in troops. This isn't civ, there is no culture victory, you need eyes out in the field and boots on the ground to win. Nah, Palaces are actually really strong just for the (uncapped) +10 CP. You can easily win the game just by having enough CP to summon 1 Tier 4/turn, Cast all of the City Enchants as Rogue, Keep Armageddon up infinitely, demolish stacks with global damage spells, ect. I don't rush palaces, but I always transition my backline cities to pumping them out late game unless I'm playing Dread or something. It's far more useful then pumping out additional troops after a point. madmac fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Nov 6, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2014 12:20
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Y'know, I'm feeling like taking a break from all the SM talk and doing some AoW 3 write-ups instead. Leaning towards tackling classes first, maybe some races, maybe even do that Hero guide I already said I was going to do. I'm a lazy git, but you never know. Might do Rogues first. Rogue never gets enough love.
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Nov 6, 2014 15:04
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Voyager I posted:I am an EVE player and that level of autism is flabbergasting to me. This is fantastic
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Nov 6, 2014 15:21
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