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Lottery of Babylon posted:Were the Kamigawa names that hard to remember? I don't find Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran any easier to remember than Adamaro, First to Desire. I'm not sure they would have had time to add spirits to the Ravnica sheet after getting the Kamigawa backlash. Stuff in back-to-back blocks is usually planned thusly. I remember them saying the earliest they could add Kataki to a set in Kamigawa block based on Affinity's Dominance post-Darksteel was in Saviors but the Rusalka cycle IIRC was in guildpact?
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Nov 3, 2014 22:14
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Zoness posted:I'm not sure they would have had time to add spirits to the Ravnica sheet after getting the Kamigawa backlash. Stuff in back-to-back blocks is usually planned thusly. I remember them saying the earliest they could add Kataki to a set in Kamigawa block based on Affinity's Dominance post-Darksteel was in Saviors but the Rusalka cycle IIRC was in guildpact? Of course your talking proactive versus reactive. 1. Oh poo poo this thing didn't work like we planned in a released set, put something in an upcoming set to fix it! Difficult. 2. The set we designed 12 months ago has a mechanic that likes spirits, should we put some in this set we're designing to play with them? Yes we should. Easy.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:20
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Zoness posted:I'm not sure they would have had time to add spirits to the Ravnica sheet after getting the Kamigawa backlash. Stuff in back-to-back blocks is usually planned thusly. I remember them saying the earliest they could add Kataki to a set in Kamigawa block based on Affinity's Dominance post-Darksteel was in Saviors but the Rusalka cycle IIRC was in guildpact? I don't think he's suggesting they were added as a reaction to public outcry over the mechanic. He's suggesting the cross block synergy was planned from the start as a recognition that it was such an insular mechanic. Most blocks have a card or two as a high five to the previous block (Dimir Infiltrator, ninjas) but it's rare that you have such strong/blatant cross block support for something. Though it's justifiable flavor wise on Azorius&Dimir, it's kind of silly to see so many spirit cards across all colors in Rav and it's a recognition that the mechanic needed more dudes. I'm sure there will be a good warrior or two in the next block to help that tribal theme in constructed, but there were 34 spirits in Rav block.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:24
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Honestly, Maro being so rigid about the color pie is a good thing. It means there's pushback against color pie warping, and this means that the tug of war results in a reasonable balance.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:24
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The extra dose of spirits in Ravnica block led to some great flavour/story stuff. Orzhov making contracts that literally keep you on after your death and your final 'promotion' to their Council being when you die; routine interrogation of the dead by the police as to who killed them; Kos having to hang around with his crappy partner's ghost because he'd nominated him as his 'avenger' in an Orzhov contract which allowed the partner to stick around to make sure everything was fulfilled; Kos' ghost going on infiltration missions by possessing soulless Simic creations; a literal ghost quarter in Agyrem, where the spirits of the dead continue to go about their business ...
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Nov 3, 2014 22:44
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The color pie, to me, (granted, these days I'm strictly Cubing) should be like the rules of fiction writing. There are rules in place as a framework to teach people the basic mechanics and understanding and allow them to play and craft within the format. And while great works come from within that framework, some truly special stuff is made when someone artfully goes outside of those boundaries. Rules are meant to be broken and it's great to see green get removal and flying or see red work within its boundaries to get a form of card advantage. It's a welcome change of pace from Blue getting everything because wizards (literally and fictionally).
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Nov 3, 2014 22:45
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Kamigawa had some of the most delicious flavor a card game has ever tasted and makes for a pretty good Limited environment but it lacked a lot on the Constructed side of things unless you're like me and just want to do silly things like Tribal Rats/Snakes/Ninjas/Samurai etc. I'd be tempted to buy a Booster Box of Champions to draft at my LGS if I could find one for less than $400.
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Nov 3, 2014 23:04
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The problem is that cards in Magic (outside silver border and stuff like the Conspiracies which are format limited) can't be limited to the singular impact they have when they're released, as people coo over how new and special and daring they are. They hang around forever, doing strange things to balance and to this starting framework of the colour pie that they used to be measured against, just like Dismember is hanging around as a 1 colourless mana -4/-4 that can be played in any deck from Modern down.
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Nov 3, 2014 23:06
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Sleep of Bronze posted:The problem is that cards in Magic (outside silver border and stuff like the Conspiracies which are format limited) can't be limited to the singular impact they have when they're released, as people coo over how new and special and daring they are. They hang around forever, doing strange things to balance and to this starting framework of the colour pie that they used to be measured against, just like Dismember is hanging around as a 1 colourless mana -4/-4 that can be played in any deck from Modern down. It's worse than that. Dismember is -5/-5.
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Nov 3, 2014 23:13
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People make custom cards and try to justify them with 'oh they did that in TS/PC/FUT' it's fine.
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Nov 3, 2014 23:14
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Allstone posted:People make custom cards and try to justify them with 'oh they did that in TS/PC/FUT' it's fine. Most of the card submissions in the Design Challenge thread are pretty on point except when they do stuff like Commander, or other Suplementary/Straight-to-Legacy Product, cards.
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Nov 3, 2014 23:19
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Yes but everyone in that thread (except me) is a Clearly Superior Goon, and not a Dirty Peon From Other Magic Sites Who Is Dumb About Magic.
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Nov 3, 2014 23:25
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The Third Set to End all Third Sets! Remember the other great third sets, like the last third set with Dragon in its name and no dragons? The last third set featuring a tribe that appeals to casual players? What about the last time a third set was about dragons and had a dragon's head for the set symbol? That's some tough precedents to live up to! No but really I hope the set is interesting. Zoness fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Nov 3, 2014 |
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Nov 3, 2014 23:45
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 Mardudes attacking Abzan alongside dragon. I like the lightning dragon; seems to tie into the thing about Tarkir's dragons being born from storms.
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Nov 3, 2014 23:49
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Sleep of Bronze posted:
Did someone say Dragonstorm?
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Nov 3, 2014 23:51
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Sleep of Bronze posted:
If I were that Mardude guy on the horse, I really wouldn't be riding as close to the dragon as he is. He's just asking for his horse to break a leg, and that isn't including being hit by stray lighting from the dragon breath (which is hitting his armor), and the treacherous terrain being churned up by the dragon. Not to mention being stood on by the dragon accidentally. Also, does that dragon have four wings? Feathery wings?
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Nov 3, 2014 23:54
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This set being released a month earlier has to do with the new block schedule right?
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Nov 3, 2014 23:55
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Zoness posted:The Third Set to End all Third Sets! Idk what the second set you're referring to is (E:Avacyn Restored and Angels?) , but the major difference between Dragon's Maze/Scourge and Dragons of Tarkir is that's it's BIG. (I do wonder what was up w/ Scourge and Dragons. A late effort to spice up marketing?) Rinkles fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Nov 3, 2014 |
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Nov 3, 2014 23:56
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Zoness posted:The Third Set to End all Third Sets!
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Nov 3, 2014 23:56
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Rinkles posted:Idk what the second set you're referring to is, but the major difference between Dragon's Maze/Scourge and Dragons of Tarkir is that's it's BIG. I think the second set is Journey Into Nyx, with Minotaurs, but I could be wrong.
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Nov 3, 2014 23:57
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I'm always defending Kamigawa for some reason - I thought the flavour is some of the best wizards has done. I think people remember drafting it and all the boring soulshift/splice/hand matters stuff but there were some really excellent cards in the set. Jitte, Gifts Ungiven, Kokopops and top still get played in eternal stuff. Also it had the honden deck which is probably one of my favourite dumb budget standard decks ever.
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Nov 3, 2014 23:59
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GoutPatrol posted:This set being released a month earlier has to do with the new block schedule right? No because the middle small set is a month earlier too. They're giving us less time with triple KTK and spreading out the glut of releases around Q2, which is frankly great.
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Nov 4, 2014 00:00
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I mean to be fair there was also a third set that was a big third set and it featured fatties as its tagline creature and it is literally the best limited format ever created except for maybe one black 5-drop rare and arguably one white 3-drop common that almost single-handedly redeemed the color. So my hopes are pretty high for another large third set. (And yes I was referring to Dragon's Maze, Avacyn Restored, and Scourge).
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Nov 4, 2014 00:08
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Were the Kamigawa names that hard to remember? I don't find Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran any easier to remember than Adamaro, First to Desire. So with nonlegendary creatures, their name is just a descriptor of what the thing is, and tends to be short. Legendary creatures have long names and most of the time the actual name doesn't mean anything to most readers, like Agrus Kos. So yes, the legends in Ravnica block are harder to remember than normal creatures, but there's 20 total legends in Ravnica block. Every single rare creature and a lot of the uncommon creatures in Kamigawa block was a legend. It's very easy for me to name every legend in Ravnica block, and generally speaking, it's not too hard for most blocks that have either a cycle of legends or one or two random outliers. Is there any chance you could name every legendary creature in Kamigawa block and know what they do off the top of your head? Including the ones that flip into a legend? That's the problem with the naming in Kamigawa block. What further complicated the problems is that you had some legends with names that were easy to associate with a card because their title corresponded well to what they did, ones that people remembered because the cards did something cool/powerful, then everything else. And everything else fell into a lot of camps. The fact that there's a bunch of different naming conventions besides "Name, Title" didn't help either. Heartless Hidetsugu was kind of strange since the name sounds like Hidetsugu is a type of creature, and he was a Heartless one of those. There's a Kodama of the North, South, and Center trees and it's difficult to remember which one was what besides North being the one with Shroud that was good. Lots of names are actually just too similar: Sakiko, Seshiro, Shizuko, Shisato, Shidako, Sosuke, Sasaya, and Sachi are all names of different green legendary snakes. Can anyone instantly say what each of those snakes does off the top of their head? Maro has consistently pointed to Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar being a pretty terrible name for a legendary creature. Also let's be honest, the flip creatures are just the absolute worst examples in this regard. This is why the people who think DFCs are ruining a part of magic where flip cards are perfect at are crazy. Like, someone tell me they hear the name Azamuki and can associate that with a full card text and card art.
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Nov 4, 2014 00:12
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I think the real color pie question we're forgetting to ask is what would a tasty color pie pie be made of? The white section could be coconut cream, blue is obviously blueberry, black is blackberry, red is raspberry, and green is key lime. Seems like a mechanically complex baking endeavor.
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Nov 4, 2014 00:15
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Ultima66 posted:What further complicated the problems is that you had some legends with names that were easy to associate with a card because their title corresponded well to what they did, ones that people remembered because the cards did something cool/powerful, then everything else. And everything else fell into a lot of camps. The fact that there's a bunch of different naming conventions besides "Name, Title" didn't help either. Heartless Hidetsugu was kind of strange since the name sounds like Hidetsugu is a type of creature, and he was a Heartless one of those. There's a Kodama of the North, South, and Center trees and it's difficult to remember which one was what besides North being the one with Shroud that was good. Lots of names are actually just too similar: Sakiko, Seshiro, Shizuko, Shisato, Shidako, Sosuke, Sasaya, and Sachi are all names of different green legendary snakes. Can anyone instantly say what each of those snakes does off the top of their head? Maro has consistently pointed to Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar being a pretty terrible name for a legendary creature. Sakiko - creates mana on your first main phase that doesn't drain Seshiro - draws you cards when snakes hit, all snakes get +2/+2 Shizuko - okay i forget this one Shisato - Deathtouch/regenerates Shidako - Flipped from Orochi eggwatcher, G, sac a creature: giant growth Sosuke - makes all warriors have deathtouch and gives all snakes +1/+0 Sasaya - flips to an essence that gives you a fuckton of mana Sachi - makes all shamans give more mana and gives all snakes +0/+1 Also Tomorrow is clearly a nod to Abbot and Costello and completely hilarious because of that.
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Nov 4, 2014 00:16
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BXCX posted:I think the real color pie question we're forgetting to ask is what would a tasty color pie pie be made of? The white section could be coconut cream, blue is obviously blueberry, black is blackberry, red is raspberry, and green is key lime. Seems like a mechanically complex baking endeavor. Make 5 pies, cut a 1/5 out of each one and then put a thin wall of graham-cracker to represent artifacts between them. Bam, you got 6 pies to share with your friends now.
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Nov 4, 2014 00:16
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Zoness posted:Sakiko - creates mana on your first main phase that doesn't drain I checked this and shizuko actually creates mana during the first main phase while sakiko creates mana in combat. Whoops!!!
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Nov 4, 2014 00:19
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homerlaw posted:Make 5 pies, cut a 1/5 out of each one and then put a thin wall of graham-cracker to represent artifacts between them. Bam, you got 6 pies to share with your friends now. No. It has to be baked all as one pie so we get bleeds around the flavorful edges. And also hybrid flavors. 
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Nov 4, 2014 00:20
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homerlaw posted:Make 5 pies, cut a 1/5 out of each one and then put a thin wall of graham-cracker to represent artifacts between them. Bam, you got 6 pies to share with your friends now. Cut a very very thin slice out of each pie, like, super thin, then put them all in one plate pushed together to resemble an actual slice. Sprinkle crumbled nuts on top. The joke is slivers.
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Nov 4, 2014 00:25
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Just pre-bought some brainstorm sleeves off one of the guys who are flying over to GP New Jersey to judge there (I live in the UK) , so very happy about that. Kinda wanted the playmat too but he wants 90 quid for it  I'll stick with my GP Manchester one.In other news, Dragons of Tarkir looks to be very interesting and I hope that they actually put loving dragons in it this time (Looking at you, dragon's maze)
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Nov 4, 2014 00:46
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Samael posted:Just pre-bought some brainstorm sleeves off one of the guys who are flying over to GP New Jersey to judge there (I live in the UK) , so very happy about that. Well given the fact that there's a dragon in the promotional art for it, I think there will be exactly at least one dragon in the set. Also, I dig the four feathered winged dragon. That's neat. Edit: I also learned today that the GP is in Edison, and I thought it was in Atlantic City. I am wrought with regret. 
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Nov 4, 2014 00:51
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Sleep of Bronze posted:
Based on that art, I hope that dragon is a Mardu bro that triggers Crackling Doom every combat.
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Nov 4, 2014 01:01
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That might be one of my absolute favorite dragon designs in MTG, ever. It's so good. I'm going to play dragon tribal in standard, it's gonna be loving awesome as hell.
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Nov 4, 2014 01:04
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Personally I think the design has a bit too much going on.
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Nov 4, 2014 01:06
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homerlaw posted:That might be one of my absolute favorite dragon designs in MTG, ever. It's so good. I'm going to play dragon tribal in standard, it's gonna be loving awesome as hell. Hopefully they make Storm a returning mechanic but only bring back poo poo like Dragonstorm. Because Dragonstorm has never been overpowered as gently caress. Maybe in Narset EDH but hey.
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Nov 4, 2014 01:06
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Serperoth posted:Cut a very very thin slice out of each pie, like, super thin, then put them all in one plate pushed together to resemble an actual slice. Sprinkle crumbled nuts on top. gently caress that noise, take all the best ingredients from each piece of pie, stick it in one piece and add some blue food coloring. Then laugh at people that choose other pie slices -WotC
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Nov 4, 2014 01:16
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Errant Gin Monks posted:gently caress that noise, take all the best ingredients from each piece of pie, stick it in one piece and add some blue food coloring. Then laugh at people that choose other pie slices -WotC Then make an Apple, Blackberry, Strawberry pie that crushes all the blue-colored pies.
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Nov 4, 2014 01:19
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Errant Gin Monks posted:gently caress that noise, take all the best ingredients from each piece of pie, stick it in one piece and add some blue food coloring. Then laugh at people that choose other pie slices -WotC Make enough pie so that it's easy for people to eat not just the gigantic blue piece of pie, but the best parts of all the other pieces, in one sitting. Then everybody will be obese goons whose asscracks are probably on display constantly. Wow, the analogy really works.
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Nov 4, 2014 01:21
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Count Bleck posted:Hopefully they make Storm a returning mechanic but only bring back poo poo like Dragonstorm. I mean, Dragonstorm won a standard world championships and placed 3 top 8's in a standard pro tour, it can't be that good. (But yes give dragonstorm please).
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Nov 4, 2014 01:23
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