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Che Delilas posted:I was a software developer for a place that made all their salaried employees punch a clock. I was also written up (as in, written reprimand, goes into my employee file, too many of those and you're fired automatically) for punching in at exactly 8:00 one day. Because that meant I was at my desk at 8:01, and my Except there have been numerous cases that have before the Labor Board that have slapped employers for this idea. You clock in, you get paid. You clock in early because of policies, you get paid for the whole time. Even if you're salaried.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:17
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Phuzzy posted:Except there have been numerous cases that have before the Labor Board that have slapped employers for this idea. You clock in, you get paid. You clock in early because of policies, you get paid for the whole time. Even if you're salaried. What? I didn't say I didn't get paid, I said I got written up. I got paid my exact agreed-upon salary. Similarly, on the days I did come in early or leave late or take a shorter lunch, I got paid the exact same.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:26
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Che Delilas posted:I was a software developer for a place that made all their salaried employees punch a clock. I was also written up (as in, written reprimand, goes into my employee file, too many of those and you're fired automatically) for punching in at exactly 8:00 one day. Because that meant I was at my desk at 8:01, and my As much as I loving hate my soul sucking job there is one massive positive that keeps me in there and thats the fact that management has given zero shits about me coming in consistently 15 minutes late and leaving 30-40 minutes early, none of my poo poo is ever late so no reason to ask questions. One of the very very few benefits of being salaried is that you aren't treated like a 5 year old child when it comes to getting work done and putting in the hours. It sounds like your manager was a giant bag of dicks.
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Nov 4, 2014 01:55
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1500quidporsche posted:As much as I loving hate my soul sucking job there is one massive positive that keeps me in there and thats the fact that management has given zero shits about me coming in consistently 15 minutes late and leaving 30-40 minutes early, none of my poo poo is ever late so no reason to ask questions. One of the very very few benefits of being salaried is that you aren't treated like a 5 year old child when it comes to getting work done and putting in the hours. His manager is a very common personality in Corporate America. My old place was similar to his: even salaried employees had to use time-sheets. You wanna know what was REALLY crazy though? Once a month the CEO skimmed over everyone's time-sheets (~200 people) to make sure people weren't "stealing from the company." If someone was found to be taking a little too much time for lunch breaks, or coming in a bit too late in the mornings, they would receive a verbal reprimand from their manager (who was in turn reprimanded by the CEO by not keeping people on a tight leash). Said CEO passed away from cancer a few weeks ago. I sometimes picture her on her deathbed examining a stack of time-sheets, protecting every penny of her wealth from thieves like a true captain of industry would.
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Nov 4, 2014 03:59
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1500quidporsche posted:One of the very very few benefits of being salaried is that you aren't treated like a 5 year old child when it comes to getting work done and putting in the hours. "You're a professional. You're paid a salary for 40 hours but it's expected you'll work 45 to 50 hours each week." I've heard this a lot. I don't do it, and no one has called me out on it yet, but I've heard it a lot. Also I have to fill out a timesheet.
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Nov 4, 2014 05:13
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1500quidporsche posted:One of the very very few benefits of being salaried is that you aren't treated like a 5 year old child when it comes to getting work done and putting in the hours. One of the theoretical benefits. Not only being salaried, but being salaried in a position that has nothing to do with the time of day you enter/leave the building and everything to do with a finished product being done correctly and under deadline. He was indeed a giant back of dicks, for this and many, many other reasons. One of my co-workers, a man in his fifties who had worked in IT in various capacities for the last three decades, said that he had "never met a more vile human being in his life." enraged_camel posted:"stealing from the company." If someone was found to be taking a little too much time for lunch breaks, or coming in a bit too late in the mornings, they would receive a verbal reprimand from their manager (who was in turn reprimanded by the CEO by not keeping people on a tight leash). A phrase my boss used on more than one occasion. I once pointed out that I had come in on a couple weekends to get a project in under a deadline, and that sometimes I took 20 minutes for lunch because I just wanted to get calories into me so I could go back to a problem I was seriously engaged with. His response? "That doesn't matter." Okay then. quote:Said CEO passed away from cancer a few weeks ago. I sometimes picture her on her deathbed examining a stack of time-sheets, protecting every penny of her wealth from thieves like a true captain of industry would. One of the reasons I quit that job was that I found myself picturing my life if my boss were to die in a high-speed collision on the commute to or from the office. Sounds like I'm being a drama queen but this guy was a terror and being around him (more precisely, in his power) was doing things to my personality and my thoughts that alarmed the poo poo out of me.
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Nov 4, 2014 05:21
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Che Delilas posted:One of the reasons I quit that job was that I found myself picturing my life if my boss were to die in a high-speed collision on the commute to or from the office. Sounds like I'm being a drama queen but this guy was a terror and being around him (more precisely, in his power) was doing things to my personality and my thoughts that alarmed the poo poo out of me. This is pretty typical in a lovely job. The only form of revenge I could ever come up with that I could be directly fired or arrested for was forming a union.
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Nov 4, 2014 05:30
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Che Delilas posted:One of the reasons I quit that job was that I found myself picturing my life if my boss were to die in a high-speed collision on the commute to or from the office. Sounds like I'm being a drama queen but this guy was a terror and being around him (more precisely, in his power) was doing things to my personality and my thoughts that alarmed the poo poo out of me. No man, I totally understand. My boss was such a colossal moron that I became a really cynical and negative person at work. It got to a point where I would wake up in the mornings swearing out loud at the thought of going to work that day, and on my drive home I would dwell on his idiocy and just fume. The most frustrating aspect was that he was a well-meaning guy -- just utterly incompetent, ineffective and a total coward when it came to making a bold decision or sticking his neck out for the team.
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Nov 4, 2014 05:50
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enraged_camel posted:His manager is a very common personality in Corporate America. My old place was similar to his: even salaried employees had to use time-sheets. You wanna know what was REALLY crazy though? Once a month the CEO skimmed over everyone's time-sheets (~200 people) to make sure people weren't "stealing from the company." If someone was found to be taking a little too much time for lunch breaks, or coming in a bit too late in the mornings, they would receive a verbal reprimand from their manager (who was in turn reprimanded by the CEO by not keeping people on a tight leash). They started doing that at my office. My supervisor went through and started sweating people's timesheets and seeing when they timed in comparing that to when they started work on the first ticket in the queue. The hilarious thing is that for the past decade or so people would punch in and get breakfast at the canteen (a 10-15 minute process) and then head back to the desk to eat and start working. Now they want you to pick up breakfast on your own time (which is reasonable but totally not what the vast majority of people were doing for the past decade or so) and then punch in. They also chewed out the intern for my department, who was a smart but naive actuary studies guy, for taking a longer lunch than he was entitled to. Technically they are correct, but for gently caress's sake why would you even bother chewing out a guy who works like 6 hours a week due to classes?
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Nov 4, 2014 06:44
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I'm assuming he was an unpaid intern too?
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Nov 4, 2014 07:03
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Ornamented Death posted:"You're a professional. You're paid a salary for 40 hours but it's expected you'll work 45 to 50 hours each week." "Sure, can I get that in writing?"
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Nov 4, 2014 08:45
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Peven Stan posted:They started doing that at my office. My supervisor went through and started sweating people's timesheets and seeing when they timed in comparing that to when they started work on the first ticket in the queue. The hilarious thing is that for the past decade or so people would punch in and get breakfast at the canteen (a 10-15 minute process) and then head back to the desk to eat and start working. Now they want you to pick up breakfast on your own time (which is reasonable but totally not what the vast majority of people were doing for the past decade or so) and then punch in. They also chewed out the intern for my department, who was a smart but naive actuary studies guy, for taking a longer lunch than he was entitled to. Technically they are correct, but for gently caress's sake why would you even bother chewing out a guy who works like 6 hours a week due to classes? Because companies are holding everyone by the balls and will do anything to "maximize shareholder value," or at least looking like they do. That's not even an exaggeration. Most of the time people treat others like poo poo because it makes them look good to their bosses, who in turn want to look good to theirs. There's a reason the saying "poo poo rolls downhill" exists: the attitudes of the people at the top determine what behaviors get rewarded and what behaviors get punished.
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Nov 4, 2014 08:48
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rolleyes posted:"Sure, can I get that in writing?" It doesn't matter. Even if the guy's boss says "you are paid for 40 hours a week," salaried people aren't paid hourly and there's no upper limit on how much they are expected to work.
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Nov 4, 2014 08:51
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enraged_camel posted:It doesn't matter. Even if the guy's boss says "you are paid for 40 hours a week," salaried people aren't paid hourly and there's no upper limit on how much they are expected to work. The smart ones aren't that direct anyway. My boss was fond of using phrases like, "go above and beyond" and, "do more than the bare minimum." That "pieces of flair" scene from the movie Office Space is a work of non-fiction, is what I'm saying.
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Nov 4, 2014 09:07
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Ornamented Death posted:"You're a professional. You're paid a salary for 40 hours but it's expected you'll work 45 to 50 hours each week." I've heard that poo poo a lot, and frankly it makes me glad to be in the position I am in. We're a vendor providing IT service in someone else's datacenter, so we have to justify every minute we spend to the guys we're contracted to. Takes all the gently caress-gently caress games out of hours worked because even if we were salaried someone's paying for every hour. Assuming of course -my- rear end in a top hat bosses remember to pay me. Going to be on the phone to HR in about four hours here. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 10:40
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enraged_camel posted:No man, I totally understand. My boss was such a colossal moron that I became a really cynical and negative person at work. It got to a point where I would wake up in the mornings swearing out loud at the thought of going to work that day, and on my drive home I would dwell on his idiocy and just fume. The most frustrating aspect was that he was a well-meaning guy -- just utterly incompetent, ineffective and a total coward when it came to making a bold decision or sticking his neck out for the team. I find it both hilarious and horrifying that I do the same exact thing right now.
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Nov 4, 2014 13:42
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Ezekiel_980 posted:I find it both hilarious and horrifying that I do the same exact thing right now. I used to do it too but it really helped a lot when I just stopped giving a poo poo. I highly recommend not giving a poo poo. (And by not giving a poo poo, I'm not talking about failing doing your job. Do your loving job people  )My boss probably thinks I'm a complete moron because I ask the same questions at the beginning of every week, but what he doesn't realize is that the answer I get in different every time, and I'm only asking to determine what the newest arbitrary executive flavor of the week is so I can roll with it.
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Nov 4, 2014 13:49
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Renegret posted:My boss probably thinks I'm a complete moron because I ask the same questions at the beginning of every week, but what he doesn't realize is that the answer I get in different every time, and I'm only asking to determine what the newest arbitrary executive flavor of the week is so I can roll with it. By doing this you are a model employee. And on not giving a poo poo, you can get away with sub-par work for a very long time before people will comment. Sure, you might not get the promotion or raise you would like but you would not get it anyway and who gives a poo poo? On timesheets, I track my hours in a seperate sheet so I can fill in the corporate, department, delivery and project sheet with the same information. Yes, that is four timesheets I need to fill in. Today, a co-worker found his code in a competitors project / product we are working on. The reason he looked was that he worked on something similar some 4 years back and posted about it on his blog including a code sample. This was appearantly lifted and put verbatim in the commercial product including variable names and syntax. Well, okee, the one thing added was the copyright notice by the competitor claiming complete ownership of the code and threatening to prosecute anyone who would violate his copyright. Solkanar512 posted:This is pretty typical in a lovely job. The only form of revenge I could ever come up with that I could be directly fired or arrested for was forming a union.
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Nov 4, 2014 14:27
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Keetron posted:Ah yes, this stood out to me. You can get arrested for forming a union? This is a typo I hope? Probably not prosecuted (and definitely not convicted), but I could absolutely believe arrested for soliciting unionization from fellow employees depending on the state. "Union" is a dirty word in most states now.  Edit: Thinking about how it could be done... it's illegal to sabotage someone's business, whether you work there or not. As an example, if you had a guy harassing female workers on the production floor, you'd probably have the police drag him off and then fire him while he's gone. In a union-unfriendly state, it'd be easy enough to say that the guy out there trying to unionize your employees is harassing your workers or is sabotaging your business. Police wouldn't even blink at arresting you, though I highly doubt you'd ever see charges. Not that I've seen this played out or anything. Discussing unionization is directly banned in my employment contract and I am in a very unfriendly state when it comes to unions, so I can't say I've seriously considered it. Sundae fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 15:12
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enraged_camel posted:Because companies are holding everyone by the balls and will do anything to "maximize shareholder value," or at least looking like they do. I work for a private company, which makes it all the more hilarious. In order to make the company more competitive they hired a managing director from one of our publically traded competitors who immediately began wrecking the company culture and putting his own cronies in charge. He got purged last week but the damage has been done. The intern was paid btw to whoever asked.
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Nov 4, 2014 15:50
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Sundae posted:Not that I've seen this played out or anything. Discussing unionization is directly banned in my employment contract and I am in a very unfriendly state when it comes to unions, so I can't say I've seriously considered it. Wasn't it a human right to organize the work force?
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Nov 4, 2014 16:24
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Keetron posted:Wasn't it a human right to organize the work force? Who says employees are humans?
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Nov 4, 2014 16:38
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Keetron posted:Wasn't it a human right to organize the work force? I don't know if it's a human right, but it's definitely a NLRA requirement. To make a stupid metaphor, though: if a law is broken in the forest and nobody gives a poo poo, does it make a sound? Nobody cares, even if you do report it. It's just like my wife's old job where every employee was falsely classified as an independent contractor so that the employer could commit tax fraud along the way, while simultaneously breaking several other wage-hour laws (any job rework required was unpaid overtime outside of work hours, any hours in excess of 40 were unpaid overtime but less than 40 were deducted, plus all the independent contractor fuckery). We reported that to the WHD and filed an SS-8 form with the IRS as well. Nada. Shooting down unionization attempts is pretty much the Pennsylvania state pastime as far as I can tell, too. It's a big coal state in the west, and they're big on keeping the workers in Appalachia poverty. Sundae fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 16:46
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Sundae posted:Shooting down unionization attempts is pretty much the Pennsylvania state pastime as far as I can tell, too. It's a big coal state in the west, and they're big on keeping the workers in Appalachia poverty. "Pennsyltucky" continues to be an appropriate moniker.
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Nov 4, 2014 17:39
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Keetron posted:Wasn't it a human right to organize the work force? If you are talking about the UN Declaration of Human Rights or whatever it is called, the same people that don't like unions think that the Declaration is a UN attempt to take over the US and take our guns etc.
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Nov 4, 2014 18:11
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enraged_camel posted:No man, I totally understand. My boss was such a colossal moron that I became a really cynical and negative person at work. It got to a point where I would wake up in the mornings swearing out loud at the thought of going to work that day, and on my drive home I would dwell on his idiocy and just fume. The most frustrating aspect was that he was a well-meaning guy -- just utterly incompetent, ineffective and a total coward when it came to making a bold decision or sticking his neck out for the team. Someone in SH/SC once said you know your job is becoming poo poo when you a see a car accident on the way to work and think "I wish I got in a car accident so I didn't have to go to work today"
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Nov 4, 2014 18:27
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Keetron posted:Wasn't it a human right to organize the work force? You ain't from 'round here, are ya?
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Nov 4, 2014 19:44
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CitizenKain posted:Someone in SH/SC once said you know your job is becoming poo poo when you a see a car accident on the way to work and think "I wish I got in a car accident so I didn't have to go to work today" I'd feel bad if that happened b/c I'd be commuting in LA.
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Nov 4, 2014 20:29
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You can always file a NLRB charge. Depending on who is president it may even be investigated!!!
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Nov 4, 2014 20:43
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Peven Stan posted:I work for a private company, which makes it all the more hilarious. In order to make the company more competitive they hired a managing director from one of our publically traded competitors who immediately began wrecking the company culture and putting his own cronies in charge. He got purged last week but the damage has been done. My cousin is the CEO / majority owner of a fairly large IT company and had a very similar thing happen, except it was a CTO and he got fired before too much damage could be done. After that he vowed not to hire executives from public companies again no matter how highly thought of they were.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:28
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BigFatFlyingBloke posted:My cousin is the CEO / majority owner of a fairly large IT company and had a very similar thing happen, except it was a CTO and he got fired before too much damage could be done. After that he vowed not to hire executives from public companies again no matter how highly thought of they were. Yeah, the key point of context there is who says the person is highly thought of? Sex offenders probably think highly of other sex offenders, that doesn't mean a sex offender is a good choice of person to run a women's shelter.
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Nov 5, 2014 00:18
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Wait, there are salaried jobs where you have to punch in and out? I have to fill out a timecard (two actually) because I'm an external contractor for a contracts-based company, but they trust us to be adults and account for our own time. Even the minimum-wage hourly technicians are trusted to input their own hours without physically punching in and out. My boss has no idea when I get in every day because I get there earlier than him and also have a cube in the complete opposite corner from his office so I can come and go without him being any wiser. As long as I get my poo poo done it doesn't matter exactly how many minutes I'm there in a day.
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Nov 5, 2014 01:23
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Aquatic Giraffe posted:Wait, there are salaried jobs where you have to punch in and out? I have to fill out a timecard (two actually) because I'm an external contractor for a contracts-based company, but they trust us to be adults and account for our own time. Even the minimum-wage hourly technicians are trusted to input their own hours without physically punching in and out. Mature workplace spotted. Tell me where you work so I can apply, thanks.
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Nov 5, 2014 03:18
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On the subject of exempt/non exempt... My company is a payroll/tax filing/HR outsourcing company for small businesses. I now work in QA at the same company but I was a "consultant" before that. I don't want to now because I'm happy in my current position and I don't want to get fired, but I've been wondering lately if I could go to the state department of labor and file a wage dispute over not being paid overtime and sue the company for my stolen wages. In the so-called "consulting" department, the day would begin at 7:50 AM. My job was to answer any questions they might have about tax or labor law or our service. If we ever had a break between calls, we were supposed to answer inbound emails from clients and review client-submitted account changes for anything that would affect their tax situation or cause them to possibly fall out of compliance - in such an event we would place an outbound call to the client to notify them. Once inbound call hours were over at 6PM, we had to stay and review all account changes and answer all emails until there weren't any left from those submitted before 5PM. This would be the biggest pain in the rear end because of course nobody got to the bulk of these during the day because they were too busy talking on the phone. We had to wait to be dismissed before we could leave. We were typically dismissed at 7PM but sometimes even later. If we were hourly, we'd be getting hella overtime. Per the FLSA call center reps are hourly and entitled to overtime. However, the company claimed we were exempt because we hit all the requirements for the professional exemption. I know I was paid gross $845 per week (minimum is gross $455 per week) so that requirement is met, but what do you think of the other requirements? "The employee’s primary duty must be the performance of work requiring advanced knowledge, defined as work which is predominantly intellectual in character and which includes work requiring the consistent exercise of discretion and judgment;" Is tax and labor law compliance advanced knowledge? I felt like with enough time you could program a chatbot to do what I did. I was basically regurgitating memorized facts. "The advanced knowledge must be in a field of science or learning;" Is knowledge of laws a field of science or learning? I thought beat cops were hourly. "The advanced knowledge must be customarily acquired by a prolonged course of specialized intellectual instruction." Well they certainly provided in-house training, but they could have trained any schmuck off the street to do what I did. The job ad said a college degree was required but I think a high school graduate could perform the job just as handily. I suspect that the requirement was just there to weed out poors and shiftless bougies. What do you think, corporate goons, do I have a case for wage theft?
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Nov 5, 2014 03:19
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Talk to a lawyer to get a real answer. On the one hand you were basically doing call center work, which would indicate you'd be non-exempt, but it's more advanced knowledge/work than "have you tried turning it off and on again?"
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Nov 5, 2014 03:31
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Xibanya posted:On the subject of exempt/non exempt... Well the beauty of the legal system is that these distinctions aren't clear-cut, so it could be argued either way. Certainly for the cost of six hundred dollars an hour you may be able to find a legal practitioner who can help settle this distinction by billing for many months of exhaustive legal research.
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Nov 5, 2014 03:35
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:Well the beauty of the legal system is that these distinctions aren't clear-cut, so it could be argued either way. Certainly for the cost of six hundred dollars an hour you may be able to find a legal practitioner who can help settle this distinction by billing for many months of exhaustive legal research. Or for free by contacting the state labor board with an anonymous complaint on behalf of everyone who worked there.
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Nov 5, 2014 05:18
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ItalicSquirrels posted:You ain't from 'round here, are ya? Nopers. I am from socialist Europe and one of the northern euro countries to boot so loads of taxes and a legal system that favors the working class. But from your side, the USofA did ratify that same document.
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Nov 5, 2014 14:28
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Keetron posted:Nopers. I am from socialist Europe and one of the northern euro countries to boot so loads of taxes and a legal system that favors the working class. But from your side, the USofA did ratify that same document. We ratify lots of things.
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Nov 5, 2014 14:53
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Keetron posted:Ah yes, this stood out to me. You can get arrested for forming a union? This is a typo I hope? Yeah, I meant "couldn't". Unlike Sundae, I live in Washington State, so it's a little more labor friendly.
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Nov 5, 2014 15:02
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