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TOOT BOOT posted:Welp, it sounds like Pact will be winding down before long and then he's working on something he's calling 'Twig' and then back to Worm. Is there a source on this? For the reasons people mentioned above I hope he does wrap up Pact soon. Finish up the battle for Jacob's Bell while dealing with Allister and Molly, resolve the Rose/Blake situation, then take a breather from the story for a while. I like the setting well enough I'd appreciate more stories in it, but he could use a reset since the story has been GOGOGO from the start. Too much filler is a bad thing, but so is non-stop season finale. He can leave the big demons, law firm and Johannes for the sequel. I'm just not sure where Conquest would fit in as he's dropped seeds enough that it would almost require an arc. Speculation: Unless the next series has Ross dealing with remnants of Rose, Conquest and Blake in his head. If he is continuing, even one full arc dealing with everyone getting their bearings and having some downtime would be greatly appreciated, I trust Wildbow not to make it boring.
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Nov 4, 2014 20:29
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I'm of the other opinion, in that I'm still generally for how Pact's been going. I'm not sure where this perception of a lack of character development comes from. We've got better looks at Maggie, Rose, Blake's friends, the younger Thornburns, as well as a front-row seat to Blake's deteriorating sanity. Evan is still great, Green Eyes is almost as good, and Alister is a good replacement for Laird. I think Pact has had pretty good pacing since the Conquest arc ended. The thing is, Pact, like Worm, is in large part a tragedy. Real tragedies aren't really that common these days, but there's a lot of historical precedent for how they get plotted. Breaking Bad was the only popular tragedy in recent memory I can think of. That and Pact share the same kind of structure, in that they're both stories about people who win all the battles while slowly loosing the war, and gradually become monsters in the process. That said, what just happened to Blake isn't even really all that bad. Yes, his deal got interrupted, but Blake and Rose still determined that they have the capability to cooperate. Alister even understood it wasn't Blake's fault; He only ordered an attack to keep from looking weak. Next time Blake might even be able to negotiate without having a lance to his throat. He did avoid getting bound though, which I think might be a bigger deal than even he thinks.
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Nov 4, 2014 20:39
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The source for the ending/Twig/Worm2 information is a comment by Wildbow in the discussion section of 13.1. My suspicion is that "Pact" will wrap up things without much closure, akin to Empire Strikes Back. I see "Twig" as the direct sequel to Pact, just named differently for some reason. My guess is that Twig begins with Blake in the Abyss for the third time after his demise/execution. Wildbow has introduced far too many things in this world, and far too many long-reaching conflicts, to let things end in a single arc. Offhand, there's the Conquest/Toronto kerfuffle (who's in control now that the Lord is missing?), the Rose/Blake conflict (though this one is probably going to see significant progress this chapter), Urr, the Lawyers (who, admittedly, may not come up again since they are only interested in servicing the needs of the Thorburn heir), and the Black Lamb's Blood redemption-of-humanity hook.
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Nov 4, 2014 20:39
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Yeah, Blake really does have to end up in the Abyss again before the end for his third treatment. I imagine this ending is likely akin to how Leviathan arc in Worm brought the opening portions of it to a transition point. Maybe the bell is going to be driving every other insane and they'll attack enough of the practitioners to force all of whomever remains into one camp. Something like that. I don't see Jacob's Bell continuing at the end as it has been.
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Nov 4, 2014 20:45
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Pavlov posted:I think Pact has had pretty good pacing since the Conquest arc ended. The thing is, Pact, like Worm, is in large part a tragedy. Real tragedies aren't really that common these days, but there's a lot of historical precedent for how they get plotted. Breaking Bad was the only popular tragedy in recent memory I can think of. That and Pact share the same kind of structure, in that they're both stories about people who win all the battles while slowly loosing the war, and gradually become monsters in the process. The Sopranos has tragic overtones too. I wish The Wire and, to a much lesser degree, Boardwalk Empire were popular enough to , well, count as popular. 
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Nov 4, 2014 21:48
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I'll be honest, I don't watch much television, so there's probably some others out there. Tragedies are still pretty rare in modern media in comparison to the whole though. There's almost a stigma around the term, like people don't like to even use the word anymore. Often you'll see the word 'drama' where tragedy would be a lot more accurate. It's strange because "Comedy and Tragedy" used to be the main styles in western media, but people don't seem to admit to being part of the latter half anymore.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:22
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GreyjoyBastard posted:The Sopranos has tragic overtones too. I read would read The Wire fan fiction all day long.
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Nov 5, 2014 00:06
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New update. molly is a drat bell.
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Nov 6, 2014 12:47
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According to the comments Twig isn't a Pact followup as many people had guessed. We also found out Wildbow is deaf.
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Nov 6, 2014 21:09
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TOOT BOOT posted:According to the comments Twig isn't a Pact followup as many people had guessed. 5-8 more arcs is a lot more arcs, particularly if 13 doesn't count as one.
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Nov 6, 2014 21:25
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Pavlov posted:I'm of the other opinion, in that I'm still generally for how Pact's been going. I'm not sure where this perception of a lack of character development comes from. We've got better looks at Maggie, Rose, Blake's friends, the younger Thornburns, as well as a front-row seat to Blake's deteriorating sanity. Evan is still great, Green Eyes is almost as good, and Alister is a good replacement for Laird. The problem is less that everything goes bad for Blake and more with the pacing. The story never seems to slow down and new enemies pretty much jump out at the protagonist right after he manages to dispatch or subdue the previous ones. The ending of the Conquest arc is probably the most egregious example: just after defeating the incarnation, Blake persuades its vexed subordinates not to attack him, immediately proceeds with attacking Ur, getting defeated and thrown into the Drains. All in the span of one chapter. There is very little time left for the reader to calm down and process what just happened, because they immediately get treated with another crisis. It doesn't help that the story is full of moments where Blake gets an upper hand and the enemy goes 'haha, nope', immediately regaining the lost advantage. For the reader, it's really hard to feel tense about the new enemy or relieved after the hero gets a major victory. Everything blurs into one, overwhelming crisis that starts around the second chapter and never shows any hope to improve. Imagine how "Worm" would look like if Behemoth showed up immediately after Slaughterhouse Nine, only to be immediately followed by Khonsu and Scion. I still like "Pact", but it's much harder to read than "Worm".
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Nov 7, 2014 20:34
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TOOT BOOT posted:According to the comments Twig isn't a Pact followup as many people had guessed. Because you said that with no context, I went and had a look, the 2 comments for reference are from 13-2 and are: wildbow posted:wildbow November 6, 2014 at 12:01 am wildbow posted:wildbow November 6, 2014 at 12:40 am Interesting about how even he's not happy with how the pacing has gone.
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Nov 7, 2014 21:25
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Nettle Soup posted:Because you said that with no context, I went and had a look, the 2 comments for reference are from 13-2 and are: The world is fantastic though. 
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Nov 7, 2014 22:59
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Gantolandon posted:The problem is less that everything goes bad for Blake and more with the pacing. The story never seems to slow down and new enemies pretty much jump out at the protagonist right after he manages to dispatch or subdue the previous ones. The ending of the Conquest arc is probably the most egregious example: just after defeating the incarnation, Blake persuades its vexed subordinates not to attack him, immediately proceeds with attacking Ur, getting defeated and thrown into the Drains. All in the span of one chapter. There is very little time left for the reader to calm down and process what just happened, because they immediately get treated with another crisis. You do have a point that the pacing isn't perfect. I think most of that has to do with superfluous action scenes. For instance, just in this last chapter, the fight with the goblins was completely unnecessary. I thought the fight was ok by itself, but too many fights like that wear a bit thin, as well as taking up most of the chapter they're in.
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Nov 8, 2014 08:18
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Yeah, I was reading through today's goblin fight thinking 'well, it sure is nice getting to know Green Eyes and Evan and have some character interwaaaaaiiiit why the gently caress is there yet another fight? Seriously, these characters need some time to grow.
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Nov 8, 2014 11:42
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thespaceinvader posted:Yeah, I was reading through today's goblin fight thinking 'well, it sure is nice getting to know Green Eyes and Evan and have some character interwaaaaaiiiit why the gently caress is there yet another fight? But we got more of the two best characters.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:37
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Seriously though that goblin fight was real dumb and unnecessary. I would think its foreshadowing for maggie next big bad night but who knows what happened to that when she lost her name.
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Nov 9, 2014 01:12
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Only thing I can think of is Wildbow needed a way to get a couple of extra weapons into Blakes' hands. Seriously annoying way to do it though.
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Nov 9, 2014 04:14
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Fellwenner posted:Only thing I can think of is Wildbow needed a way to get a couple of extra weapons into Blakes' hands. Seriously annoying way to do it though. This. That's the only effect of the goblin fight, so that has to be the point.
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Nov 9, 2014 06:19
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Grundulum posted:This. That's the only effect of the goblin fight, so that has to be the point. I assumed that was the point, but the fight really didn't need to be narrated. It would have been a good time for a cutaway to something more import, cutting back when the goblins were defeated. Or Wildbow could have pulled one of those 'and then we fought for a bit' like he did once in the house fight. Or, better yet, the goblins could have been less tough and Green Eyes could have continued trying to have a heart-to-heart through the whole thing. I think part of this has to do with Wildbow literally writing most chapters in a two days, so what we're seeing is essentially a rough draft. Most of it feels like stream-of-consciousness writing with little time to look back and think if everything he just wrote is really necessary for the story. As much as I love 3 chapters a week, I feel like that kind of schedule might rush him too much.
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Nov 9, 2014 06:38
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Great chapter tonight. It's fun when wildbow gets a chance to play around with different formats. This chapter felt a lot like a Worm interlude, getting a bunch of different looks at characters and motivations. The events described were interesting. I guess we know why Blake needed all those weapons. Also, I can no longer complain about fat fingers on an iOS keyboard. At least mine are flesh rather than wood.
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Nov 11, 2014 07:27
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So is this the second or third time Blake has offered the "young" members a chance to try and change their situation?
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Nov 11, 2014 07:52
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This chapter reminded me a lot of the Worm interludes that were formatted like forum posts. Wildbow needs to do more writing like this; it really works well.
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Nov 11, 2014 08:14
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TheRagamuffin posted:This chapter reminded me a lot of the Worm interludes that were formatted like forum posts. Wildbow needs to do more writing like this; it really works well. The Worm one was incredibly hard to parse the formatting and actually read. This chapter worked a lot better than the Worm forum posts chapter did.
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Nov 11, 2014 17:36
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blake probably got a respectable fear-boost when he jumped into the conversation like that
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Nov 11, 2014 17:57
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quote:Penny[D]: I can’t say how proud I am that nobody spoke up to give you any names, after the chat was unsilenced. 
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Nov 11, 2014 19:37
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One of the best parts from this last chapter:quote:Penny[D]: I know its late and everyone is tired. Just imagining that confusion and frustration that someone stopped her rule of threes attempt made me love Craig a little bit.
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Nov 11, 2014 21:05
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I don't really like Penny and I think Peter is dead on right about her if he isn't right about the whole lot of them.
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Nov 11, 2014 21:28
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Blake seemed much more imposing in this chat. Bogeymanish. And I love that he straight up asked for a hit list and then got it.
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Nov 13, 2014 10:09
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I hope we learn more about how getting Foresworn works. From what I gather, any statement with "I will" or similar is essentially treated as an oath. Breaking an oath allows others to declare you Foresworn. But someone still needs to actually do it and presumably the spirits need to arbitrate if it counts. Also assuming there is a downside to just going around declaring every practicioner you meet Foresworn; probably the spirits getting really pissed with you. So at some point Rose 'swore' that she would not induct her children in the practicioner business and this is the reason she picks an heir from the grandchildren. But why bother? Could she not just pick one of her direct children on her deathbed? I would wager it doesn't really matter if you break an oath literal minutes before your death? On the other hand there have been hints of the actual existence of an afterlife, so maybe practicioner either know or don't really want to risk reprisal in there.
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Nov 14, 2014 12:47
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Namarrgon posted:I hope we learn more about how getting Foresworn works. From what I gather, any statement with "I will" or similar is essentially treated as an oath. Breaking an oath allows others to declare you Foresworn. But someone still needs to actually do it and presumably the spirits need to arbitrate if it counts. Also assuming there is a downside to just going around declaring every practicioner you meet Foresworn; probably the spirits getting really pissed with you. Breaking an oath is bad karma regardless of being declared foresworn, and the last thing she wants to do is drop even more bad karma on her successor.
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Nov 14, 2014 13:19
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It seems like if a powerful enough dude declares you foresworn, it can properly gently caress You Up, vis, Conquest and Fell's family. Also, karma.
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Nov 14, 2014 13:23
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Hmm yeah karma seems like a good reason to even be careful with oaths you feel you can get away with breaking, for example by declaring them where you are positive that nobody able to call you out on it could hear it. Although I suppose there is no real point to those oaths either.
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Nov 14, 2014 14:48
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New chapter up, in which Wildbow pays homage to Scott Pilgrim vs. the World.someone in the comments posted:Following the Scott Pilgrim parallel, I’d say that Landon is Gideon Gordon Graves due to the mind control, Eric and Stan are Kyle and Ken Katayanagi due to being brothers, I figure a pyromancer would be a thematically appropriate opponent for Green Eyes, and thus can parallel Roxanne Richter in fighting Blake’s girlfriend, and finally we have the Benevolent guy as… Todd Ingram. The Vegan, who’s brought down by threefold acts of impurity. Plus they both take place in Canada, right?
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Nov 15, 2014 07:55
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Heh, yeah, hadn't noticed that. Is it just me or did that go... disappointingly quickly? It's like 'here are some scary dudes I'll have to maybe spennd a few chapters fighting wait nope two of them are dead by the end of this chapter. I can't help but wonder whether he's radically misjudged how difficult some of them will be to take down. Also, did anyone else notice that the spellbinder guy bound his wife's 'mind and bodies' - bodies, plural. I can't see how that can be a typo, so it sounds like she's got something unusual going on...
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Nov 15, 2014 11:06
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As much as Joyce is trying to minimize the situation, it's pretty clear being a Duchamp is rolling the loving dice on your fate. They've married in 10 practitioners in the last few generations unsavory enough that at least one of the Duchamps is totally willing to call a hit on them? In what, 2 generations? And as far as I can tell there's only a few dozen Duchamps out there. I wouldn't want those odds of the dice coming up snake eyes. Sandra's lucky, her little divine tragedy hardly harmed her at all.
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Nov 15, 2014 13:56
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thespaceinvader posted:Also, did anyone else notice that the spellbinder guy bound his wife's 'mind and bodies' - bodies, plural. I can't see how that can be a typo, so it sounds like she's got something unusual going on... Twin bodies, shared mind? Seems a little bit x-men, but who knows. I wonder what sort of pact started the Duchamp legacy. It only sounds a little less insidious than the Thorburns' deal. At least the Thorburn line kept its ill effects concentrated to one nuclear family at a time (until Grandma hosed up). The Behaims are conservative and powerhungry but at least they don't seem to have bound their lineage into some double-edged magical pact beyond "don't squander the family fortune". Then again, there is the whole "give up subjective hours of your life regularly" thing but that's less of a price and more of an investment.
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Nov 15, 2014 14:03
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New chapter up, and it includes some Death From Above!
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Nov 19, 2014 01:08
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how long do you think it will take for all of blake's enemies to band together to try to wipe him out? i think it would be pretty clear by now that he's got some serious fuckin mojo, some je ne sais quoi that makes him incredibly dangerous just as a person who exists. i mean seriously. he survived the jacob's bell killbox, he survived tangling with an incarnation, he survived taking on demonic threats with suicidally little time for preparation, he escaped the abyss in a matter of weeks. even as a prodigy, this doesn't add up. he's been active in the magical world for only a couple months. he should not be able to do this. even this matter of all of the existing powers in the region not making GBS threads their pants at the fact that he's still running loose should be a reason for suspicion. i'm not saying that he does in fact even have this invisible invincibility; just that it's surprising nobody is suspecting that he's got some world-class ace up his sleeve by now.
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Nov 19, 2014 01:48
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Tollymain posted:how long do you think it will take for all of blake's enemies to band together to try to wipe him out? i think it would be pretty clear by now that he's got some serious fuckin mojo, some je ne sais quoi that makes him incredibly dangerous just as a person who exists. They probably wouldn't have been afraid of a girl who could control mosquitos either. 
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Nov 19, 2014 01:52
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