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whydirt posted:Brainstorm isn't very good without reliable ways to shuffle your library. Then they should bring back pond... I mean soothsaying!
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Nov 4, 2014 21:18
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Kabanaw posted:If there's anything Wizards learned from Modern Masters 1 (which caused the price of Goyf and Bob to increase in price) it's that they could stand to print way, WAY more MM2. Agree, if they take any lesson from MM1 it will be print more of it, it won't smash the secondary market like Chronicles. I think they've proven that the secondary market isn't going to have a hyper-adverse reaction to reprints like it did once upon a time. Magic is a fairly big business, not just for Hasbro/Wizards but for a lot of other people. tcgplayer, star city games, channel fireball, etc. are not little comic shops with a singles counter and some neckbear collectors like they were in '95. They are actually successful businesses who know that reprints like this sell product. There is no way Star City hasn't profited like mad from khans despite the fact that the stock of onslaught fetches went down. I'm sure the demand for Khans fetches from all markets brought them far more profit than whatever loss they took on their stock. It isn't like these stores horde all the cards and don't sell them, then boo hoo when reprints happen. Further the player base now isn't like the player base back when. I'm fairly certain that everyone who plays a format like legacy and even modern wants nothing more than to constantly have more people to play, so more events run at the 'ol LGS or there are more big tournaments etc. I'm sure they could kill the market, but there is a HUGE gap between print so little it does nothing and glut the market. There is plenty of room for a card like Tarmogoyf to lose 50-70% of its current price and not have the market be destroyed.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:26
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^^^^ all this is correct! and since I started playing in 1993 as a freshman in Highschool I'm both of those players. This is the main reason I think the reserved list should go. It won't affect alpha or beta prices. And if your retirement is based on revised dual lands you need to rethink your life.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:29
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Errant Gin Monks posted:^^^^ all this is correct! and since I started playing in 1993 as a freshman in Highschool I'm both of those players. Just ban everythong on the reserved list. Fin. Solves everything in one fel swoop and magic can move on to something more sustainable.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:29
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Sickening posted:Just ban everythong on the reserved list. Fin. Solves everything in one fel swoop and magic can move on to something more sustainable. Well you just killed legacy.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:32
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So I'm going to GP NJ just to play sealed. Will there be enough time to get a game in between the event starts if I want to do all 3? Or should I play out one miss 2 and drop based on w/l to join up for sealed 3? I'm not sure how tight the timeline but 20 dollar sealed is too good to pass up. Might just sign up for the second one and just play that if the pool is insane. I'm thinking too much someone help. Also any of you dudes going that don't want the mat let's work out a deal.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:33
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Sickening posted:Just ban everythong on the reserved list. Fin. Solves everything in one fel swoop and magic can move on to something more sustainable. Magic is doing great, that Legacy is increasingly inaccessible has done nothing to hurt the game and will continue to not matter. WOTC will never get rid of the reserve list and it has nothing to do with collectors or prices. They cannot risk creating an organized play environment where non rotating formats become a significant portion of the player base's de-facto or most popular formats and for that reason they will pretty much allow Legacy to follow the way of Vintage, provide middling support to Modern, and continue to make piles and piles of money from Standard. Right now Standard is king, Modern is healthy, and Legacy can still put together reasonable sized tournaments. They aren't going to do much to gently caress with that formula because Standard makes them the money. KidDynamite posted:Also any of you dudes going that don't want the mat let's work out a deal. I'm bringing like 4 spare decks come borrow one and play in the main event. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 21:35
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Well you just killed legacy. The current decklists would change, the format would live on. Ciprian Maricon posted:Magic is doing great, that Legacy is increasingly inaccessible has done nothing to hurt the game and will continue to not matter. I hope you are right but it I think we can agree that magic is popular despite the increasingly inaccessibility of legacy and not because of it. Sickening fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Nov 4, 2014 |
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Nov 4, 2014 21:37
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Eight man sealed should take a little under three hours for the three rounds, so try to make plans with that as a minimum. You can probably get away with the earliest sealed match and be done in time for a 2HG sealed, which again should end in time for the 6 PM sealed event. What are people asking for the playmat, anyway? I really want to keep mine, it's very handsome. But if I can pay for registration and then some with it, why not?
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Nov 4, 2014 21:39
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Ten years ago people actually cared about the Vintage meta. Not as much as Legacy now, but enough that it was talked about. Now nobody gives a poo poo because only old-timers and rich kids can play it. Trying to maintain an audience for a format where must-play cards are literally older than the players is...problematic.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:42
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Sickening posted:I hope you are right but it I think we can agree that magic is popular despite the increasingly inaccessibility of legacy and not because of it. Yes but that doesn't matter. Magic organized play does not need every single format to be accessible in order to be sustainable and healthy.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:43
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Sickening posted:I hope you are right but it I think we can agree that magic is popular despite the increasingly inaccessibility of legacy and not because of it. I suspect Legacy has little to no impact on new acquisitions of players, other perhaps than spillover effects from being an additional source of income for card stores and tournament organizers. But the game can't grow without new players, and I don't think Legacy is what draws new players in. It seems mostly to be attractive to people who remember the Good Ol' Days of Magic and want to play in the kind of environment that has all the power cards they remember. I'm not saying it draws in no one, but I can't imagine that's where the new kids are coming from.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:44
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Legacy is attractive to lots of players for lots of reasons, it is genuinely a great format. It's nowhere near just old dudes who like their old cards, and crazily, the Legacy scene has continued to grow other the past 4 years. GPDC was the biggest Legacy GP and GPNJ looks to be even bigger. It's great and I wish everyone could play it, but the reality is that making Legacy accessible is not a winning business move for WOTC unless they want to court a lot of other problems that other CCGs have encountered.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:48
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Kasonic posted:Ten years ago people actually cared about the Vintage meta. Not as much as Legacy now, but enough that it was talked about. Now nobody gives a poo poo because only old-timers and rich kids can play it. I don't think that's really been true since Vintage Masters came out.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:52
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Legacy is attractive to lots of players for lots of reasons, it is genuinely a great format. It's nowhere near just old dudes who like their old cards, and crazily, the Legacy scene has continued to grow other the past 4 years. GPDC was the biggest Legacy GP and GPNJ looks to be even bigger. But is it attracting new players? Legacy's growth seems to me to be more likely to be coming from players who have been playing Standard or Modern for a few years and want to "take the next step", so to speak. But I still have trouble seeing someone who has never played the game before at all starting up in order to play Legacy.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:53
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:I suspect Legacy has little to no impact on new acquisitions of players, other perhaps than spillover effects from being an additional source of income for card stores and tournament organizers. But the game can't grow without new players, and I don't think Legacy is what draws new players in. It seems mostly to be attractive to people who remember the Good Ol' Days of Magic and want to play in the kind of environment that has all the power cards they remember. I'm not saying it draws in no one, but I can't imagine that's where the new kids are coming from. I notice most people who are new to magic and want to branch out from standard try to skip modern and move into legacy. A lot of the people that ask me for advice I tell to ignore legacy or to let us know when you want to come to an event ahead of time and we will bring an extra deck. Buying your way into legacy is difficult if you don't just have 2-3 grand laying around or you slowly buy into a deck. I will usually loan people a deck and as they buy the cards I will take mine back until the deck is all theirs. That way they can actually play while they collect their first legacy deck. This will only work for people a absolutely trust obviously. No random dickbag is walking off with 3 grand worth of my cards.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:54
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:But is it attracting new players? No but that's not what I was saying either. Legacy appeals to lots of established players, I know plenty of kids playing Legacy who never touched magic before 2011, it is not as you suggested, a format for Old Geezers trying to get back to the good old days.
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Nov 4, 2014 21:56
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Does anyone have a link to that site that lets you print out a gauntlet of 12 decks on a single set of cards?
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Nov 4, 2014 21:56
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Delver of Secrets is a lot like what old magic was like, I agree. Also stoneforge mystic and batterskull and deathrite shaman. Boy back in my day we had to spin our tops uphill both ways I tell you what.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:00
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http://metadeck.me/
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Nov 4, 2014 22:01
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Zoness people have lots of misconceptions about Legacy you don't have to be such an insufferable twat about it.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:02
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whydirt posted:Brainstorm isn't very good without reliable ways to shuffle your library. Like, say, fetchlands? I don't think they want to put cards into Standard that they'll have to immediately ban in Modern.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:04
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The biggest problem Legacy has is that the no-reprint policy means there's a cap to the number of people that can play it at any given time. The format will continue to grow along with Magic, but eventually the format staples will reach the point that few people can afford the entree fee. While Wizards can lower the buy-in to Modern with reprints, Legacy's popularity can only reach a certain point before demand outstrips supply.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:04
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:But is it attracting new players? Legacy's growth seems to me to be more likely to be coming from players who have been playing Standard or Modern for a few years and want to "take the next step", so to speak. But I still have trouble seeing someone who has never played the game before at all starting up in order to play Legacy. I don't think that it really needs to attract new players though? Having different formats is great for the game. Things cycle, meta's shift, things stay fresh. I guess what seems so strange in my eyes that modern and legacy just fit so strangely in my local area. A big percentage of the people I know playing modern wish they were playing legacy instead and the ones playing legacy wish they had more people playing legacy. Both formats are suffering without any growth. EDH on the other hand is growing and it mostly because it feels like diet legacy. But we are talking about local meta's that have 150+ for standard but only 15 for modern and less for legacy. The big legacy events are rightfully popular because people drive from all over the place to actually have the chance to play people in legacy besides the 4 other dudes they play with on Saturday.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:04
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Sickening posted:I don't think that it really needs to attract new players though? Having different formats is great for the game. Things cycle, meta's shift, things stay fresh. This si true. But the only really expensive barrier to legacy is he land base. If you have to spend 1500 bucks on lands before buying anything else it pretty much sucks for the people who don't have a full set of dual lands. I mean the land base for UR Delver is 800 bucks for 4 volcanic islands. 500 bucks in fetchlands.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:12
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Sickening posted:I guess what seems so strange in my eyes that modern and legacy just fit so strangely in my local area. A big percentage of the people I know playing modern wish they were playing legacy instead and the ones playing legacy wish they had more people playing legacy. Both formats are suffering without any growth. EDH on the other hand is growing and it mostly because it feels like diet legacy. But we are talking about local meta's that have 150+ for standard but only 15 for modern and less for legacy. I don't know a single person that I play with that isn't either "casual" or "bored of standard, thinking about modern, wishing about legacy" and I'm mostly friends with people in their early 20s who have only been playing for a few years. Like, I've never played a standard season seriously (I slowly built TurboGates) and basically don't want to because it seems like nearly as much work as modern to get into, more work to stay up to date with, and not nearly as interesting most of the time. The only reason I'm leaning toward modern instead of legacy is that I'm fuckin broke or close to it enough of the time that I will probably not be able to ever justify buying an Underground Sea. It's just really unfortunate that I completely missed out on what looks to be the most interesting format of magic (in my eyes at least) because I was born too late to get into it during the super early days, and didn't start playing the game until after I graduated high school.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:13
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The reason I prefer commander and the other eternal formats is because I don't have to blow 500 bucks every 3 months buying standard cards that will be worthless in 6-12 months. Commander rules.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:16
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Sickening posted:I don't think that it really needs to attract new players though? No one said it did, right? (I was agreeing with you!) Point is, Legacy isn't what is growing Magic, it's more modern formats that's doing that. People already inside the Magic loop move to Legacy, but they don't come in that way. So if your goal is to grow the game, focusing on Legacy is not an effective strategy. Zoness posted:Delver of Secrets is a lot like what old magic was like, I agree. Yeah I mean you take out Brainstorm, Daze, Force of Will, Pyroblast and the ABUR duals and it's pretty much the same deck.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:20
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I've played magic for a good number of years and I can say what I really want to play isn't necessarily legacy but rather old standard and limited (Ala-Zen and RoE draft all day  ) formats that rotated years ago. This might not be what everyone else wants but it's certainly part of the charm of legacy, since almost every block has 2-3 cards that make it into legacy playability it's like this cool conglomeration of all the really powerful cards that have existed.Part of the problem with Legacy isn't so much that the entry price is high - I mean, it certainly is - but that it also has poor exposure. While the SCG Open series does feature Legacy it tends to look like the same stuff being done over and over again with people waxing poetic on how wonderful duals and wasteland and fow and brainstorm are while wotc somehow prints a card that manages to make it even worse to play non-blue cards cough TNN cough. Meanwhile Modern is an abandoned bastard of a format that managed to eke out one pro tour a year due to crowd outrage. Khans of Tarkir did shake up the format a little but without large events on the horizon it's a format that's just kind of there that people grind out dailies with. I feel like if wizards really wanted to do anything to make non-rotating formats more of a thing they'd really push Modern hard but for whatever reason they keep being really bearish on modern and milquetoast on legacy card availability and whatever.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:27
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This is why build-your-own-cube is the best format.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:28
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Entropic posted:Like, say, fetchlands? I don't think they want to put cards into Standard that they'll have to immediately ban in Modern. Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time might suggest otherwise! We don't need Brainstorm necessarily but Ponder and/or Preordain should be brought back regardless, because those cards are dope, and they're already banned in Modern so there's no fuss when the set drops. Also since we just got done with a wedge set, bring back Spreading Seas. Or Wall of Omens. Control is sorely lacking in a good 2 CMC cantrip.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:30
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Equilibrium posted:Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time might suggest otherwise! We don't need Brainstorm necessarily but Ponder and/or Preordain should be brought back regardless, because those cards are dope, and they're already banned in Modern so there's no fuss when the set drops. And has Dig Through Time actually been doing as much? In Modern it seems like just Cruise ripping everything up with nary a Dig to be seen. Is Dig a thing in Legacy?
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Nov 4, 2014 22:35
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Entropic posted:This is why build-your-own-cube is the best format. 
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Nov 4, 2014 22:36
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Errant Gin Monks posted:The reason I prefer commander and the other eternal formats is because I don't have to blow 500 bucks every 3 months buying standard cards that will be worthless in 6-12 months. You don't have to do this though? Not if you're smart about what you trade/buy/sell. I traded almost entirely into my current standard deck by trading rotating cards for non-rotating cards a few months before rotation and before the rotating cards dropped in value. I bought a few new cards, but if you're willing to play a cheaper deck for the last few months and hang on to non-rotating trade fodder for a bit before rotation you can enter the new standard pretty cheap. Ed: rotation rotation rotation
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Nov 4, 2014 22:36
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Fingers McLongDong posted:You don't have to do this though? Not if you're smart about what you trade/buy/sell. I traded almost entirely into my current standard deck by trading rotating cards for non-rotating cards a few months before rotation and before the rotating cards dropped in value. I bought a few new cards, but if you're willing to play a cheaper deck for the last few months and hang on to non-rotating trade fodder for a bit before rotation you can enter the new standard pretty cheap. Well, the main issue with that is that it's time consuming. Sometimes Magic is just that: a hobby.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:38
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Ramos posted:Well, the main issue with that is that it's time consuming. Sometimes Magic is just that: a hobby.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:40
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Entropic posted:I meant on purpose. I think they honestly just didn't test the Loot Boat enough in Modern or legacy to realize how good it is when you build around it. Given that they don't test Eternal formats at all I'm not surprised they didn't test it enough.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:43
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Fingers McLongDong posted:You don't have to do this though? Not if you're smart about what you trade/buy/sell. I traded almost entirely into my current standard deck by trading rotating cards for non-rotating cards a few months before rotation and before the rotating cards dropped in value. I bought a few new cards, but if you're willing to play a cheaper deck for the last few months and hang on to non-rotating trade fodder for a bit before rotation you can enter the new standard pretty cheap. Basically as soon as modern season starts I should be considering trading off my rotatoes, right?
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Nov 4, 2014 22:45
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Spiderdrake posted:"I hate when Magic is time consuming, so I play Commander" just makes me giggle. Time spent playing is totally different then time spent dicking around trying to trade crap for good cards.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:47
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Spiderdrake posted:"I hate when Magic is time consuming, so I play Commander" just makes me giggle. Commander dragged me back into this game. It's a durdly format so sure you're still spending a bunch of time. But you're spending a bunch of time playing with buddies, instead of watching trade sites alone. For me it least it wins as an enjoyable time sink and an excuse to buy more fancy beer.
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Nov 4, 2014 22:48
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