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The retro observer features some classic WCW stuff. Arn Anderson just retired, so Nash said to get some heat the NWO should make fun of them and of Arn's retirement speech but then the Horsemen would come out and clean house. Okay all good, but then Nash decides the Horsemen shouldn't beat up the NWO. 
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Nov 5, 2014 03:19
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Hassan's theme still angers up the blood.
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Nov 5, 2014 04:24
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I liked that time he entered the Royal Rumble, and absolutely everyone stopped what they were doing to throw him out.
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Nov 5, 2014 05:00
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El Gallinero Gros posted:That and Hassan was not a strong promo. He also sucked in the ring. Looks like Jesus wins again
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Nov 5, 2014 07:23
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Jesus wouldn't even do a clean job to death. And then he brushed aside the Rock aswell.
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Nov 5, 2014 07:28
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LordPants posted:Jesus wouldn't even do a clean job to death. And then he brushed aside the Rock aswell.
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Nov 5, 2014 09:48
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Wait, what, what's Isa ibn-Maryam doing in the Impact Zone!?
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Nov 5, 2014 10:19
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Luigi Thirty posted:We're up to early 98 and Meng's still destroying the midcard without really getting a push. Even when he loses he still hulks up after the bell and puts guys in the Tongan Death Grip until someone pulls him off. It's really weird with some of these guys how they got to play "the big fish in a small pond" role and how you might go: "awesome! he's gonna get somewhere now" and nothing like that ever happened because of the NWO.
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Nov 5, 2014 11:09
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The main problem was that the nWo story did not have an end in sight, they hadn't planned on their exit. I really loved WCW and thought Bret Hart would align with Sting and get rid of the nWo, leaving them to do a face VS face feud where Bret wins the WHC. As popular as it is to poo poo on WCW, I finally got the Network and am really enjoying reliving Nitro and watching the stuff I missed. Lots of WWF stuff, especially around 1997, is way overrated nowadays.
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Nov 5, 2014 13:52
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LordPants posted:Jesus wouldn't even do a clean job to death. And then he brushed aside the Rock aswell. He put Cena out of action for a bit after stealing Tank Abbot's gimmick.
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Nov 5, 2014 14:16
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Two Beans posted:He put Cena out of action for a bit after stealing Tank Abbot's gimmick. But Cena's never had a beard to shave?
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Nov 5, 2014 14:28
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Nov 5, 2014 14:47
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Been a while since there was a '96 update, I had a weekend in Amsterdam and forgot everything I watched. Anyway, in the Nitro before Starcade Hogan calls out Piper, like Piper did to Hogan the previous week. There's a lot of talk about Hogan being on the phone with Spielberg. Somehow I doubt he's talking to the star of Thunder In Paradise but stranger things have happened. Anyway, Piper's music plays and hilariously Bischoff comes out in full regalia. Sadly when he takes to the mic he doesn't do a Piper impression or a Scottish accent. Piper can overdo it as a talker, but I actually like his Starcade promo. He does this thing where he puts across how hard it is to beat Hogan, and how the odds are stacked against him. It's a weird babyface promo where you put across how strong the other guy is. My boy Dean Malenko puts on another good match. He and Ultimo Dragon open the show and by the end the crowd is really into it. Weirdly Sunny Ono has reverted back to his Japanese accent, despite Mean Gene exposing him a few weeks ago on Nitro. They treated the fact that he has a normal american accent as some little secret between them, and not something broadcast to everyone. The rest of the thing is so-so. Madusa shows up again to lose, proving what a good investment she was. Giant loses to Luger, who has, somehow, become the face of the WCW, at least according to Tony. Somehow, he's kind of right. It's funny when you consider a couple of weeks prior he was a lovely heel. Nick Patrick has shown up with his ear pierced to show how bad he is. Main event is Piper and Hogan. The crowd is not all that into it. Piper does a great move though: Knowing the predilection in these things for ref bumps, he picks up Randy Anderson and puts him on the top turnbuckle. It's a cute little touch, and though he and Hogan are over the hill by this point in terms of their wrestling style, it's the type of move you get from someone who's wrestled thousands of matches by that point. It's not that he's doing something that no one else can, it's just that he's thinking about things like that. Funny moment when the Giant picks up Piper for a chokeslam, but a fan runs in at the same time, leaving Giant to hold Piper up in the air long enough for Hogan and the ref to kick the fan out. Anyway, somehow Piper beats Hogan in a non-title match. This is only mentioned when Piper wins. Somehow Piper is charge of his own stipulation and doesn't think to make it a title match? gently caress off Hogan. Hogan does his favourite thing where he makes it all about him. Piper wins and leaves right away, leaving Hogan in the ring to push an NWO storyline and then brag about how he's still the champion. There's one more Nitro of '96, and then we're into the halcyon days of 1997. DrVenkman fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 19:59
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El Gallinero Gros posted:That and Hassan was not a strong promo. He also sucked in the ring. Copani had the look and not much else, which is why he was never really re-packaged. His sidekick, Khosrow Daivari, on the other hand, was a pretty useful guy, and came back a few times.
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Nov 5, 2014 21:29
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LordPants posted:Jesus wouldn't even do a clean job to death. And then he brushed aside the Rock aswell. Can we goldmine individual posts yet? As a side note, I finally read through Death of WCW. If I didn't know wrestling, I'd believe it was all made up, cause how can one company be so drat wrong all the time. I am hella PEEVED fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 20:34
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As someone who has read both editions, the new one is definitely worth it so far and full of plenty of changes, a lot of little "lesson not learned" boxes and new stuff like:quote:"I once received a royalty check in the mail for zero dollars and zero cents," Jericho noted. "Stamps cost thirty-seven cents... what was the sense in even mailing it?"
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Nov 7, 2014 21:34
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The check worth nothing can at least be attributed to some guy with a computer on autopilot. The FedEx with nothing in it is the truest example of WCW there is.
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Nov 8, 2014 00:42
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Question: Was there any possible way, in mid 2000 or early 2001 for WCW to make a turnaround? Would it be feasible for them to still exist, in some capacity, today, or were they so crippled at that point that it was foregone that they would fail? I've been reading the Death of WCW and it seems like there were chances to fix the ship, but problems with old guys not willing to make changes or stand aside, guaranteed money, backstage politics would constantly ruin things, not to mention garbage writing.
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Nov 9, 2014 02:22
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OldTennisCourt posted:Question: Was there any possible way, in mid 2000 or early 2001 for WCW to make a turnaround? Would it be feasible for them to still exist, in some capacity, today, or were they so crippled at that point that it was foregone that they would fail? I've been reading the Death of WCW and it seems like there were chances to fix the ship, but problems with old guys not willing to make changes or stand aside, guaranteed money, backstage politics would constantly ruin things, not to mention garbage writing. I would say the guaranteed money for long periods of time legitimately made their business model unsustainable, but ultimately the AOL/Time Warner merger killed WCW dead because they finally had to pull their own weight. 2000 was bad, but they were just one squeaky wheel in a corporation which was full of cars that were on fire. WCW only died since they stood out as a money loser in an extremely bad year when their parent company needed to cut as much fat as easy as possible. I believe wrestling is cyclical and eventually the company would have gotten back on some footing at least regionally, the roster would have cut enough costs to make them a zerosum business, and if they made the correct booking decisions from the end of 2000 onward a turnaround could've happened.
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Nov 9, 2014 03:06
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pathetic little tramp posted:As someone who has read both editions, the new one is definitely worth it so far and full of plenty of changes, a lot of little "lesson not learned" boxes and new stuff like: my favorite thing was Mike Awesome (or was it Mikey Whipwreck? I dont remember now) talking to Bret Hart after a really good match and they had a conversation which ended with Bret going "you're hosed"
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Nov 9, 2014 03:06
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Mannie Fresh posted:I would say the guaranteed money for long periods of time legitimately made their business model unsustainable, but ultimately the AOL/Time Warner merger killed WCW dead because they finally had to pull their own weight. 2000 was bad, but they were just one squeaky wheel in a corporation which was full of cars that were on fire. It just seems like there had to be some way for somebody who cared about WCW to try to knock some sense into the old guys to make it clear they were loving themselves in the long run. poo poo like not having someone to temper Russo and pare down his insanity to manageable levels is so baffling.
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Nov 9, 2014 03:11
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WCW was probably unsalvageable in 2000 when Time Warner first tried to sell to Vince. You can point to too many guaranteed contracts or whatever but the company managed to spend something like $130 million on top of the $30 million in contracts while completely destroying their PPV and house show business. It wasn't just bad contracts it was bad everything. The entire company would have to be remade from the ground up without two key revenue streams as any kind of guarantee in the near future. It could easily be saved in mid 99, but by mid 2000 too much damage had been done. A relevant analogy: Bischoff's plan if he got the company in 2001 was to shut it down for 2 months and then reboot. This is the same basic plan TNA is working on right now.
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Nov 9, 2014 03:11
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Russo might have had a shot at saving WCW, but spring 2000 ended all hope between the Radicalz leaving and the world title being killed. e: The amazing lineage from Russo's first PPV to the reboot. quote:Sting UltimoDragonQuest fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Nov 9, 2014 |
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Nov 9, 2014 03:30
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I like the prospects of this VACATED kid, he's going places.
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Nov 9, 2014 03:40
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Madtrixr posted:my favorite thing was Mike Awesome (or was it Mikey Whipwreck? I dont remember now) talking to Bret Hart after a really good match and they had a conversation which ended with Bret going "you're hosed" Bret was right.
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Nov 9, 2014 04:28
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RZApublican posted:I like the prospects of this VACATED kid, he's going places. VACATED vs. ABEYANCE, main event Wrestlemania XXXI.
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Nov 9, 2014 04:30
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Their biggest mistake was trying to be wwf ver.2. If they focused more on the wrestling and athleticism portion of the product as opposed to being edgey and full of sketches they could've still been around. Instead they were, at times, even worse than the wwf at their worst.
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Nov 9, 2014 06:37
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ColeM posted:Their biggest mistake was trying to be wwf ver.2. If they focused more on the wrestling and athleticism portion of the product as opposed to being edgey and full of sketches they could've still been around. Instead they were, at times, even worse than the wwf at their worst. Yeah, but they hired Hogan. With Hogan on top, you'll always be WWF light. That's just the way it is.
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Nov 9, 2014 13:09
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The entire spectacle of hiring Hogan in '94 is just so absurd when you look at it now. A loving parade in the middle of Disney World and Mean Gene declaring "Get ready for the ride of your life!" and then...nothing until the formation of the nWo two years later.
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Nov 9, 2014 13:48
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Memento posted:VACATED vs. ABEYANCE, main event Wrestlemania XXXI.
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Nov 9, 2014 16:36
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I just finished the Death of the WCW and I think it might of been salvageable. Even as terrible as it was they still were drawing between 2.0 - 3.0 in ratings. So obviously people kept tuning in on the hope it would turn around. They just kept going back to the well with the old guys that nobody wanted to see and insisted on every face being a bumbling idiot. I watched some of Russo's Nitros on the network and sure they're bad but they're exhausting too. One story that stuck out in the book was Goldberg's elbow injury on limo where the book claims he lost 31 liters of blood. That must of been one nasty wound to lose a bodies worth of blood along with several transfusions. Russo was such an idiot.
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Nov 9, 2014 17:59
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Who did they realistically have to put the titles on though? Over with the fans: Booker T, Goldberg, maybe Flair, Page, Sting?, Hart Could be over, but had been buried: Awesome, Meng, Wright?, Hennig?, uhhhh Rotunda? Fans were tired of: Sid, Nash, Hogan, Jarrett, Arquette, Russo, Luger, Savage Could be over but would probably scare off employees: Scott Steiner Flair was champion around May, so instead of hotshotting the belt to Jarret then Nash then vacated then Flair but actually Sid when he pins the wrong Harris brother in a dignity on a pole match, you could have maybe done a feud between Booker T and Flair with Flair passing the torch at a Summer PPV while you rebuild Goldberg as a monster who doesn't lose, climbing to the US title which now is an automatic #1 contender belt like in the old days. Booker holds the title until Starrcade when he and Goldberg have a big match with Goldberg going over and holding the title for at least a year. Nitro looked so pathetic and anemic on TV, run a European tour where Hart v Goldberg is the main event and you have big sold-out crowds as your background while giving US stadiums a break and rebuilding the worth of your title. I think the real mistake of 2000 WCW was having anything to do with Jarrett ever. He's ratings poison and sucks hard as a main eventer, but I think Russo was able to convince the higher-ups it would be as big a coup as signing Hogan away from WWF.
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Nov 9, 2014 19:46
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I wonder how many slapnuts t-shirts and mini guitars remained unsold through 2000-2001
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Nov 9, 2014 20:13
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My mom is really into horses and cowboy type stuff and when Jeff Jarrett came out on his neon horse I ran into the living room and made her switch the TV to USA to watch.
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Nov 9, 2014 23:03
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Pope Corky the IX posted:The entire spectacle of hiring Hogan in '94 is just so absurd when you look at it now. A loving parade in the middle of Disney World and Mean Gene declaring "Get ready for the ride of your life!" and then...nothing until the formation of the nWo two years later. They had The Alliance to End Hulkamania 
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Nov 9, 2014 23:11
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WCW would've always been hosed. It makes no sense that Bischoff would be able to salvage it given that he more or less ran it into the ground. The rot set in when Bischoff decided that he was in the TV game and ratings meant more than anything else. Granted, he stopped the house shows to save the company money, and it worked, but their PPVs were just poo poo. The more time went on the more desperate WCW got to chase ratings while they ignored all the talent they had in front of them. But then that was always going to happen when you have Hogan/Hall/Nash on top. It's all jobs for the boys and gently caress anyone who isn't them.
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Nov 9, 2014 23:25
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DrVenkman posted:WCW would've always been hosed. It makes no sense that Bischoff would be able to salvage it given that he more or less ran it into the ground. The rot set in when Bischoff decided that he was in the TV game and ratings meant more than anything else. Granted, he stopped the house shows to save the company money, and it worked, but their PPVs were just poo poo. The more time went on the more desperate WCW got to chase ratings while they ignored all the talent they had in front of them. But then that was always going to happen when you have Hogan/Hall/Nash on top. It's all jobs for the boys and gently caress anyone who isn't them. Your timeline is way off. WCW started getting desperate in the ratings game in 98 when their house shows were tremendously profitable. They didn't end house shows until 2000.
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Nov 9, 2014 23:29
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MassRafTer posted:Your timeline is way off. WCW started getting desperate in the ratings game in 98 when their house shows were tremendously profitable. They didn't end house shows until 2000. My bad, for some reason I thought Bischoff ending them when he started, which is why they just started doing shows in Orlando all the time on the sound stage. Unless that was just for TV. It's interesting that the house shows were profitable though, which seems to be in spite of the people in charge. Bischoff has been painted as a guy who only cared about ratings, which is why the PPVs always seemed so lacklustre. In fact, succeeding in spite of itself is probably a good motto for 96-99 WCW.
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Nov 9, 2014 23:40
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MassRafTer posted:Your timeline is way off. WCW started getting desperate in the ratings game in 98 when their house shows were tremendously profitable. They didn't end house shows until 2000. It's always seemed to me that if they weren't losing a shitzillion dollars a week because of bad management that they could have gone on forever regardless of the bad booking. WWF consistently had much better ratings from about late 1998-onward, but it's not like they didn't survive for years previously as the clear #2 promotion.
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Nov 9, 2014 23:41
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DrVenkman posted:My bad, for some reason I thought Bischoff ending them when he started, which is why they just started doing shows in Orlando all the time on the sound stage. Unless that was just for TV. Bischoff started doing the Worldwide tapings at Disney, which didn't really do anything for WCW's bottom line besides make its syndicated TV irrelevant within a few months. He'd occasionally run stunts on Saturday Night but nothing that jeopardized PPV at the expense of ratings until Nitro began in late 95. After Hogan came in PPV was mostly the Hogan show, and they started ramping up PPVs to make as much money as they could there. House shows weren't profitable for WCW back in that era, but by the time WCW became completely ratings obsessed they were. WCW's house show business turned around in the spring of 96 with a Savage/Flair program, then really blew up in 97 and peaked in 98 when they were doing absolutely incredible gates until the 1/4/99 Nitro where they did their last hugely successful stadium show. You can say WCW became ratings obsessed at the onset of Nitro, but it really didn't compare to how the company got in 98 as the ratings war tightened while they were doing record business. OneThousandMonkeys posted:It's always seemed to me that if they weren't losing a shitzillion dollars a week because of bad management that they could have gone on forever regardless of the bad booking. WWF consistently had much better ratings from about late 1998-onward, but it's not like they didn't survive for years previously as the clear #2 promotion. Sure, if they were only poorly booked they could likely survive, but poor booking over a protracted period is usually a sign of poor management. WCW did survive for years but as a much different company. Nitro changed the game and made wrestling TV more expensive. You could never go back to the previous era which was a problem for a #2. And hell, there's very little evidence that a #2 is viable in the US.
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Nov 10, 2014 00:10
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