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D-Pad posted:Anybody have a link to a good explanation of Echopraxia? I feel like I understood all the concepts and character motivations individually, but I am having trouble figuring out how it all came together at the end. http://www.reddit.com/r/SF_Book_Club/comments/2hzpmt/echopraxia_qa_questions_fended_off_by_peter_watts/
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Nov 6, 2014 03:26
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Dune is really the perfect example of the trappings of a power fantasy done in a mature setting. It has all the hallmarks - someone born to be special, amazing superpowers, secret special knowledge, eternal life, the works really - but none of the emotional payoff. Nobody ever gains any enjoyment or happiness from all the cool stuff they can do. It neuters the whole concept by giving its readers a power fantasy filled with effectively omnipotent gods who can't actually do anything - either because the price of getting what you want is to never do anything but the bare minimum requires for success, or because being impossible to beat in a brawl is worth poo poo when everybody knows and will just shoot you. The Kryptonite bullet is a given in any plot that doesn't require characters to be artificially stupid to keep moving. The power fantasy is revealed as really just hiding more impotence. Which is, incidentally, probably the reason it isn't actually fun to read.
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Nov 6, 2014 03:43
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Cardiovorax posted:Dune is really the perfect example of the trappings of a power fantasy done in a mature setting. It has all the hallmarks - someone born to be special, amazing superpowers, secret special knowledge, eternal life, the works really - but none of the emotional payoff. Nobody ever gains any enjoyment or happiness from all the cool stuff they can do. you make interesting points but your last sentence is dumb and wrong, this is a recurring theme with your posting.
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Nov 6, 2014 04:19
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aw man. i thought i had it this time, too. 
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Nov 6, 2014 04:31
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Darth Walrus posted:Confessions of a D-List Supervillain is getting recced here? Ferretbrain gave it a pretty devastating review way back when. Anyways if you read the book and hate or just really trust that guy's review fair enough. Seemed like a good book to me.
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Nov 6, 2014 04:40
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Cardiovorax posted:aw man. i thought i had it this time, too. 3/5
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Nov 6, 2014 04:56
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D-Pad posted:Anybody have a link to a good explanation of Echopraxia? I feel like I understood all the concepts and character motivations individually, but I am having trouble figuring out how it all came together at the end. Also, Peter answered questions that were asked on the book's Goodreads page.
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Nov 6, 2014 05:29
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Hey man, no need to get racist in here 
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Nov 6, 2014 06:30
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Its like the guy read a different book and/or hates the author or something. I never got the creepy vibe coming off the book. It does have a adolescent power fantasy nerd thing going on but its also a guy who is a super villain who builds robotic power armor so it'd almost be weird if it didn't. To me it seemed half the book was about him trying to break out of his old lifestyle and do something different. To be perfectly fair, this is a review of the original novella rather than the full-length novel it was eventually turned into, but the author shows up in the comments section and indicates that no de-creepification process has occurred (and also that he is still a horrible nerd). Did this passage make it in? Because it's pretty telling: quote:Stacy is trying new tactics with me. Instead of screaming and threats, (which got progressively more graphic) she wants to be my friend. It won’t last, but I’ve got to hope she can kick this thing. She doesn’t know the “lament of the nerd.” Every geek that gets into their late twenties looks back at all the girls/women that crossed their path and sees how the good-looking ones were always trying to get something. How many of them had I helped in study groups? They never overlooked the bad acne and eczema that followed me to UCLA. How many tires did I change and computers did I fix, hoping for a number from a grateful coed? How many boxes and pieces of furniture did I carry because a pretty pair of lips asked me?
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Nov 6, 2014 12:43
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Printer-carrying goon got into sci-fi writing I see.
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Nov 6, 2014 12:50
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dude, what. no way one sentence is worth 40% of the score. imma complain to the examination board if you keep this up. Darth Walrus posted:Did this passage make it in? Because it's pretty telling:
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Nov 6, 2014 12:55
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After reading the last page I'm glad I dropped Red Mars when I did. I am too much of a plebeian to be awed by the pages worth of rock descriptions.
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Nov 6, 2014 14:21
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It's not new news per se, but someone has compiled all of the really horrible poo poo that Requires Hate/acrackedmoon/etc has done over the last few years: http://laurajmixon.com/2014/11/a-report-on-damage-done-by-one-individual-under-several-names/ With GamerGate such a huge thing in the news the last few months, I'm really happy to see that the people who do that sort of thing in the SFF community are being fought against instead of supported. She's tried to destroy the careers of a lot of up-and-coming writers (particularly women and POCs), so I hope the shame goes far and wide on this one. edit: Ironically, her list of victims has now become my list of SFF writers to seek out and read in the next couple of months. Popular Human fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Nov 6, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2014 16:03
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I forget if I mentioned it last time, but with the revelation that at the time she was an author trying to get published, it made one particular thing she whined about ages ago rather funny; she was really upset that Thai publishers would "publish translated books instead of books by Thai authors". Guess she was really bitter about some early rejections before finally getting published?
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Nov 6, 2014 16:13
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Popular Human posted:It's not new news per se, but someone has compiled all of the really horrible poo poo that Requires Hate/acrackedmoon/etc has done over the last few years: Hahah, wow. I knew requireshate was toxic but I wasn't expecting that kind of full-bore manipulative sociopathy.
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Nov 6, 2014 16:32
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Popular Human posted:It's not new news per se, but someone has compiled all of the really horrible poo poo that Requires Hate/acrackedmoon/etc has done over the last few years: Thanks for this. I had a general idea of the whole Benjanun Sriduangkaew/Requires Hate controversy, but this is extremely detailed and well researched. Also, it really is awful that she would spend so much time and energy trying to literally destroy other people's writing careers by manipulating publishers, reviewers, and con-organizers. It would only be fitting if this more-or-less ended hers. Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Nov 6, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2014 16:44
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Darth Walrus posted:Did this passage make it in? Because it's pretty telling: Most books struggle to do even half as good as anything Butcher writes so I was thrilled to find something else by another author that seemed to come close.
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Nov 6, 2014 17:02
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Hahah, wow. I knew requireshate was toxic but I wasn't expecting that kind of full-bore manipulative sociopathy.
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Nov 6, 2014 17:03
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Popular Human posted:It's not new news per se, but someone has compiled all of the really horrible poo poo that Requires Hate/acrackedmoon/etc has done over the last few years: Interesting to see someone else who thinks "Benjanun Sriduangkaew" is another a pseudonym, though there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. Also interesting to see so many people describing her as being "outed". "Unmasked" seems more appropriate.
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Nov 6, 2014 17:35
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Yea its in it. If that is 'pretty telling' or creepy to you I don't know what to say except the book maybe isn't for you. I mean its plenty fair if you don't like the main character because he is too goony. Sometimes that rubs people the wrong way. There are however awesome books with goony main characters, the Dresden series comes to mind. I've known a few who weren't able to get past Harry's gooniess either. This book isn't as good as Butcher's work IMO but it does at times come close and stays fairly funny throughout the book. It's a superhero book. Those are basically male power fantasies in written form. That being said, it was a pretty good book for what it was. If you dig superhero books, you'll probably dig this one. Origins worked out a little bit different but gave way more of a backstory other than "Boy that guy was a dick!" for his arch nemesis (the NOT TONY STARK guy) that I can't remember the name of at the moment. It's not 5 star literature that you'd expect to win a nobel award for, but it's still a good book if you like superhero books.
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Nov 6, 2014 17:45
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Popular Human posted:http://laurajmixon.com/2014/11/a-report-on-damage-done-by-one-individual-under-several-names/ Oh good, that whole thing is  as hell and I was waiting for the Reader's Digest version.
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Nov 6, 2014 17:48
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:It's not 5 star literature that you'd expect to win a nobel award for, but it's still a good book if you like superhero books.
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Nov 6, 2014 17:49
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:It's a superhero book. Those are basically male power fantasies in written form. Yes, superhero stories are mostly power fantasies, but your point would work a little better if I could think of a single other piece of superhero fiction I've watched or read that indulged in or endorsed that particular sort of bitter Nice Guy misogyny so explicitly and to such an extent. Soon I Will Be Invincible didn't. Astro City didn't. Worm didn't. Interviewing Leather didn't. Seven Wonders had one character express those sorts of opinions, but it didn't endorse them - it was to show he was an entitled rear end in a top hat who was in no way suited to be a hero and who was about to have karma take a big, steaming dump on him. Maybe one of the recent crop of superhero movies got that explicit in its misogyny, but if so, I either don't remember it or didn't watch it. Stories about men and women beating each other up in weird spandex outfits certainly tend to be lowest-common-denominator brain-candy with a whole host of unfortunate hangups associated with them, but that doesn't mean you have to sit through the author explaining to you that 'women are shallow, manipulative sluts who need a nice, geeky guy to bring them down to earth with several days of torture and impromptu weapons testing because he's the only one who'll appreciate them for who they really are' in order to get your fix. It's possible to be low-brow entertainment without being aggressively horrible, and there's a lot of stories that manage it. As for Butcher, his work certainly has a lesser dose of the same problems, but it's generally less explicit and more self-aware. He acknowledges on some level that Harry's goony attitudes towards women aren't appropriate and shouldn't be endorsed by the text, even if he's not great at following through on that. Bernheimer's stories, on the other hand, seem to comprise an incessant, high-pitched scream of 'bitches and sluuuts!'. @Sriduangkaew article: Huh, so she was using cult tactics. Guess the Andrew Blake comparisons are legit after all.
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Nov 6, 2014 18:47
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Eh, I didn't get that from the book. I took it as an angry nerd who made power armor had adventures. It's not really that deep of a book. Did you actually read the book, or are you just going off reviews of it? I ask because I have read it, and while yes the main character is pretty much a nerd, he shows a fuckton of growth in his personality from d list supervillian to actual basic normal functioning member of society. It's not a book for everyone, but it's not exactly like the guy is channeling Bakker or Frank Miller either.
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Nov 6, 2014 18:59
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I read the book and I agree with Darth Walrus.
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Nov 6, 2014 19:12
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I didn't read the book and I agree with Flander, WHAT NOW?!
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Nov 6, 2014 19:15
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Darth Walrus posted:As for Butcher, his work certainly has a lesser dose of the same problems, but it's generally less explicit and more self-aware. He acknowledges on some level that Harry's goony attitudes towards women aren't appropriate and shouldn't be endorsed by the text, even if he's not great at following through on that.
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Nov 6, 2014 19:23
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Cardiovorax posted:Not really quite fair, Butcher makes it clear that Dresden's an unreliable narrator and often shows him getting his rear end handed to himself as a consequence of his pseudo-chivalric attitude. He also visibly (and rapidly) develops as a character and starts taking his female enemies and friends seriously on their own terms. More importantly, it's very much Harry's narrative voice shining through; Butcher's Codex Alera books treat their female characters as competent and powerful right from the beginning. If I had to bet money on it, I'd go with "Butcher was a bit goony himself when he wrote the first book and none of that was deliberate at the time but then he grew up some and got poo poo pointed out to him so now he just keeps the characterization consistent." He still has his goony moments though - the conversation with his elf nurse in Cold Days about how he could totally rape her but he won't because he's a gentleman comes to mind.
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Nov 6, 2014 20:02
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I read the superhero book and thought the prose was childish and overwrought. Not to mention the pacing felt really off. I don't know the author so I can't speak to his RL attitudes but CAL just felt like a whiny dick that gets handed a prize due to authorial fiat/the hero's journey/every 80s movie. And that may be part of the point because he's a D-list villain but it made the story horrifically uninteresting.
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Nov 6, 2014 20:12
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What's this Seven Wonders thing? I like superhero stuff and read comics because I am a manchild, is it any good? Speaking of, I just started reading the Shield and the Crocus which melds fantasy and superheroes. It seems decent enough so far, although it appears to stick to the superhero genre more than fantasy and isn't great by any means. It also seems a little bit YA - to avoid the darker aspects of what follows from the setting. Basically a bunch of different fantasy races which all have some kind of mild superpower live in canyons formed by a several kilometre high giant falling. 4 warlords control sections of the city and the protagonists are trying to foment revolution and change. There are weird spark storms which mutate people and structures in them which can result in stronger superheroes or monstrosities. I'm not far enough in to give a concluded opinion but I haven't seen this particular blend of fantasy before.
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Nov 6, 2014 20:30
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Neurosis posted:What's this Seven Wonders thing? I like superhero stuff and read comics because I am a manchild, is it any good? It's by Adam Christopher, the guy who did The Burning Dark, which was discussed earlier in the thread. It's OK. Some cool concepts, but the ending rather runs out of steam, and it could have used a few more likeable, sympathetic characters. Read Worm instead.
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Nov 6, 2014 21:12
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I just finished The Man in the High Castle in a run through some of the early Hugo winners. Holy poo poo. This starts as a pretty tight, but standard, political thriller in an alternate history, and then it waxes philosophic. Waxes like the full moon crashing down on your head. I'm not even going to try and describe where it goes, except to say that's a drat big twist right at the end.
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Nov 6, 2014 21:56
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Darth Walrus posted:It's by Adam Christopher, the guy who did The Burning Dark, which was discussed earlier in the thread. It's OK. Some cool concepts, but the ending rather runs out of steam, and it could have used a few more likeable, sympathetic characters. Read Worm instead. Already done. Worm was good. Got Seven Wonders, we'll see how it is.
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Nov 6, 2014 22:12
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I'm picking up the 4th book in Daniel Abraham's The Dagger and the Coin series, and I'm realizing I've forgotten most of what happened in the third book. Can anyone give me a real quick summary of how the third book ended, particularly with regard to Marcus Wester?
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Nov 6, 2014 22:40
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Cool, Shield and Crocus is on kindle unlimited. Gonna get my read on  Thanks for the heads up about it. Sounds pretty cool.
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Nov 6, 2014 22:42
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Ran out of stuff to read again. I guess I'll read Ancillary Sword, but I don't expect it to be less of a tedious chore than the first book was. 
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Nov 6, 2014 23:01
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Cool, Shield and Crocus is on kindle unlimited. Gonna get my read on It does, I'll definitely get a sample off Amazon. Then again, so did Scar Night.
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Nov 6, 2014 23:02
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Darth Walrus posted:It's by Adam Christopher, the guy who did The Burning Dark, which was discussed earlier in the thread. It's OK. Some cool concepts, but the ending rather runs out of steam, and it could have used a few more likeable, sympathetic characters. The Burning Dark had the same issue so that seems like a consistent problem with his books. Anyways if you want a good Superhero story read Soon I Will Be Invincible.
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Nov 6, 2014 23:17
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Ursus Veritas posted:The Burning Dark had the same issue so that seems like a consistent problem with his books. Yeah, I've read that as well. My criticism of that was that only one half of the story was of any interest. The villain, obviously. The other side, of the hero, felt like it was using ideas that comics have been covering for decades, so it was nothing particularly interesting. Still a decent read.
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Nov 7, 2014 04:30
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mllaneza posted:I just finished The Man in the High Castle in a run through some of the early Hugo winners. Welcome to PKD. I suggest the three stigmata of palmer eldritch so that you can try to figure out why space billionaire is in fact evil jesus
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Nov 7, 2014 05:18
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