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By this rate, he's gonna have to build a zoo to house all these white elephants.
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Nov 6, 2014 14:25
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kapparomeo posted:Re: remittances, a Grauniad article from last year linked to this document which has figures from 2011. We have a very negative relationship with the EU, losing money to every member state except for Ireland and Spain: so much of this makes no sense i can't figure out if it's deliberate intelectual dishonesty. you've listed all EU countries, and contrasted this with the £5B from the study. which was of course only for the Eastern countries, excluding the original 15. the complete £20B was the figure in all the headlines. but it's a bit of a moot point since your comparison is nonsense. apples and oranges. it's "[not] enough to overcome the … profit claimed in the study" because no figure would be. simply not a relevant comparision. noone's every suggested the state's surplus of tax revenue vs expenditure for EU migrants should somehow offset their total remitances out of the country - what sort of mechanism do you even envisage here? you might find it more interesting to compare your remitance total against the total amount generated in the economy by these migrants through their labour & the capital they brought with them. at least that'll be some sort of of "what has entered economy" vs "what was taken out".
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Nov 6, 2014 14:50
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Jippa posted:"Nigel Farage and the comedian Andrew Lawrence have accused a ‘politically correct comedy clique’ of targeting Ukip and favouring talentless women and ‘ethnics’." I went to school with Andrew Lawrence but remember literally nothing about him (though I suppose his descent into frothing-at-the-mouth racial views could have been caused by the large number of 2nd gen immigrants/mixed race people there)
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Nov 6, 2014 14:51
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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:lol Mayor Boris is getting the government and TfL to stump up £60million for a footbridge that won't be a public right of way and will be closed after dark. He truly is the king of pissing away fare payers/taxpayers money. http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor-assembly/london-assembly/2014/11/news-from-darren-johnson-am-no-public-right-of-way-on-proposed Hahaha gently caress London
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Nov 6, 2014 15:06
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The best thing is about the Andrew Laurence thing is that you could pretty much predict not only the response to it, but also Laurence's reaction to that response, because its a bunch of dreary pub level rhetoric. Hes totally cracked on Twitter too, so thats kind of funny.
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Nov 6, 2014 15:25
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Phoon posted:Hahaha gently caress London It's only £30m from TfL. DfT have signed on to cough up the other £30m. So it's not just London being screwed by Johnson over this. In the spirit of 'gently caress London' is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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Nov 6, 2014 16:09
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Those Lewes bonfire folks aren't all bad - their effigy of Kim Jong Un throwing his toys out of the pram is pretty funny. The Beeb has a roundup of some of them here.
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Nov 6, 2014 17:58
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Burqa King posted:People of all classes prefer to live in communities where people are culturally and ethnically similar. If you want to call that urge racist, thats your prerogative. Just bear in mind its true all over the world. The UK just attracts disproportionate numbers of outsiders. In regard to culture there is certainly room for debate but ethnically? That's just racism. Dan the black/Indian/Pakistani/Peruvian man comes up to you and starts talking about dr who in a strong Birmingham accent causing you to run off because you can't handle these ethnic differences man? Yeah that's racism and if it is indeed a instinctive response it is your duty to suppress it. Regarde Aduck fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Nov 6, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2014 18:23
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Burqa King posted:The UK just attracts disproportionate numbers of outsiders. This isn't true. A cursory google produces this table showing that we are 13th in the list of European countries with foreign citizens forming 6.6% of our population. Moving beyond Europe, there are countries in Africa or parts of the Middle-East that have refugee crises to dwarf your worst nightmares.
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Nov 6, 2014 18:35
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Guess who the person in charge of enforcing good practice at the new press complaints commission is! Paul Dacre It's like a dream. twoot fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Nov 6, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2014 19:21
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twoot posted:Guess who the person in charge of enforcing good practice at the new press complaints commission is! Hahahahaha Jesus Christ, is that for real? The more things change ...
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Nov 6, 2014 22:43
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twoot posted:Guess who the person in charge of enforcing good practice at the new press complaints commission is! What in the making GBS threads gently caress
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Nov 6, 2014 22:58
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 So did they decide on the person in charge of the paper with the most complaints because he must have a lot of experience dealing with them?  Source - https://www.pcc.org.uk/assets/111/Recorded_Code_breaches_from_2011_to_2013.pdf
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Nov 6, 2014 23:03
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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:lol Mayor Boris is getting the government and TfL to stump up £60million for a footbridge that won't be a public right of way and will be closed after dark. He truly is the king of pissing away fare payers/taxpayers money. http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor-assembly/london-assembly/2014/11/news-from-darren-johnson-am-no-public-right-of-way-on-proposed Are those quotes? Does he really just repeat the same stuff over and over verbatim? It's like a parody
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Nov 6, 2014 23:58
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We've been well beyond parody for years now.
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Nov 7, 2014 00:19
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Prince John posted:This isn't true. A cursory google produces this table showing that we are 13th in the list of European countries with foreign citizens forming 6.6% of our population. Moving beyond Europe, there are countries in Africa or parts of the Middle-East that have refugee crises to dwarf your worst nightmares. This is all deeply disingenuous. Firstly that table is from 2010 when the number of immigrants was at an historic low due to the credit crunch. Secondly it shows we are or were third in total numbers of legal immigrants. They aren't evenly spread. I mean are you really going to sit there with your lips pursed saying those poor souls in Luxembourg have it tough. Leaving all that aside, to be thirteenth is still to attract disproportionate numbers. Give me a break and cut the crap.
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Nov 7, 2014 00:41
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How is that disproportionate, we have the third largest GDP in the EU it would make sense for us to get the third most immigrants assuming a model where immigrants choose to go to wealthy countries.
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Nov 7, 2014 01:10
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I'd assume the same model but from canvassing I can reveal it feels disproportionate to people who feel that other EU countries, to which we already give more than we get to help close the gap, should be shouldering an equal share of economic migrants.
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Nov 7, 2014 01:55
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twoot posted:Guess who the person in charge of enforcing good practice at the new press complaints commission is! What an absolute joke. They're clearly not even trying to be taken seriously, they're just sticking their middle fingers up at Leveson.
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Nov 7, 2014 02:08
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Burqa King posted:I mean are you really going to sit there with your lips pursed saying those poor souls in Luxembourg have it tough. Are you really going to sit there with your lips pursed saying those poor souls in the UK have it tough? Burqa King posted:I'd assume the same model but from This implies that economic migrants are a net burden, which doesn't seem to be the case.
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Nov 7, 2014 08:29
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Burqa King posted:I'd assume the same model but from canvassing I can reveal it feels disproportionate to people who feel that other EU countries, to which we already give more than we get to help close the gap, should be shouldering an equal share of economic migrants. "Some people are racist" isn't a particularly amazing revelation. Plus, it turns out if you lie to people enough they believe it.
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Nov 7, 2014 08:40
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EvilGenius posted:What an absolute joke. They're clearly not even trying to be taken seriously, they're just sticking their middle fingers up at Leveson.
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Nov 7, 2014 08:47
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chippocrates posted:Are you really going to sit there with your lips pursed saying those poor souls in the UK have it tough? I don't think the people of Luxembourg are pushing back against immigration. I imagine that's because their migrants are different to ours. I've mentioned that it is not fundamentally an economic issue for most people. It is a figleaf for the human impulse to surround yourself with culturally and ethnically similar people, which has become unacceptable to say in public.
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Nov 7, 2014 08:55
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Burqa King posted:I'd assume the same model but from canvassing I can reveal it feels disproportionate to people who feel that other EU countries, to which we already give more than we get to help close the gap, should be shouldering an equal share of economic migrants. Do you imagine the data supports you if anyone has any? Oh wait someone did have some data and it turns out your "feelings" are full of poo poo
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Nov 7, 2014 08:59
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If it's an overwhelming natural impulse to want to be surround by people ethnically / culturally similar to yourself why do so many people pack up and emigrate anyway? Why are they immune to this?
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Nov 7, 2014 09:21
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Cerv posted:If it's an overwhelming natural impulse to want to be surround by people ethnically / culturally similar to yourself why do so many people pack up and emigrate anyway? Why are they immune to this? Because everyone wants to be near the almighty and benevolent white man, obviously.
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Nov 7, 2014 09:22
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Burqa King posted:I've mentioned that it is not fundamentally an economic issue for most people. It is a figleaf for the human impulse to surround yourself with culturally and ethnically similar people, which has become unacceptable to say in public. It has become unacceptable to say this because that statement is the barest figleaf of racism. It's usually followed by "I'm not a racist but ..."
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Nov 7, 2014 09:36
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Wolfsbane posted:"Some people are racist" isn't a particularly amazing revelation. Plus, it turns out if you lie to people enough they believe it. That seems a bit defeatist. It suits the right to stir up these sentiments. But it'd be an open goal for the left to engage more creatively and convincingly, without resorting to economic arguments that leave people cold.
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Nov 7, 2014 09:42
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Cerv posted:If it's an overwhelming natural impulse to want to be surround by people ethnically / culturally similar to yourself why do so many people pack up and emigrate anyway? Why are they immune to this? I don't say its overwhelming. Its a hierarchy of needs thing. A barman in Poland gets a pound an hour. In London its 6. That is a much greater direct benefit than than a Briton will experience from immigration.
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Nov 7, 2014 09:48
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Burqa King posted:That seems a bit defeatist. It suits the right to stir up these sentiments. But it'd be an open goal for the left to engage more creatively and convincingly, without resorting to economic arguments that leave people cold.
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Nov 7, 2014 09:57
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Junior G-man posted:It has become unacceptable to say this because that statement is the barest figleaf of racism. It's usually followed by "I'm not a racist but ..." Additionally, nobody will fault you for saying "I want to be around people like me". Saying "all these people in my vicinity who aren't like me should leave or be removed because I was here first" is what's the problem. Just go watch the episode of the Simpsons with the brothel, it is both good and relevant.
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Nov 7, 2014 10:05
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http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/07/ubani-rory-gray-killed-doctor-sued-pay-court Is this for real? Great timing with all the anti EU rhetoric flying around. I would do some quotes but phone posting.
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Nov 7, 2014 11:26
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Paul.Power posted:That's fair. It's important to make the cultural/emotional case for immigration. Broadening of horizons through multiculturalism and creative fusion, solidarity with fellow human beings regardless of differences, the ol' mongrels are healthier/alloys are stronger analogy. To leave it up to economics is to make the same mistake that the No campaign made with the Scottish referendum (not to mention pitting one right-wing ideology against another). The Indy ref comparison is very apt.
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Nov 7, 2014 11:40
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I disagree and think the economic argument trumps all and, going back to the independence referendum, the No campaign may have relied almost exclusively on an economic argument, but it was the Yes campaign's lack of a coherent economic plan that what was ultimately their downfall. Nobody is going to have their minds changed by fuzzy warm promises of universally beneficial integration and broader horizons, that sort of thing comes with hindsight. The economic case needs to be made first. Pissflaps fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 11:49
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Paul.Power posted:That's fair. It's important to make the cultural/emotional case for immigration. Broadening of horizons through multiculturalism and creative fusion, solidarity with fellow human beings regardless of differences, the ol' mongrels are healthier/alloys are stronger analogy. To leave it up to economics is to make the same mistake that the No campaign made with the Scottish referendum (not to mention pitting one right-wing ideology against another). Burqa King posted:The Indy ref comparison is very apt. Fyi the indy question wasn't a 'right-wing' ideology. That's a common misrepresentation. As an individual issue is was kind of seperate to any real ideological position, and there were a ton of left-wingers and right-wingers on both sides. I felt that the leftist argument for independence made a lot of sense, and to a lot of people it wasn't about nationalism at all, but a practical challenge to the broken status quo. Not suggesting that the SNP are anything approaching socialist, but they're a hell of a lot closer than the other major parties. They actively support more immigration, for example. I firmly believe that leaving the union would have brought people closer together in the long run, once you get out of the simplistic state-focused interpretation.
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Nov 7, 2014 11:54
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ThomasPaine posted:Not suggesting that the SNP are anything approaching socialist, but they're a hell of a lot closer than the other major parties. They actively support more immigration, for example. On economic grounds. And i'm not sure if 'encouraging immigration' is an inherently socialist policy.
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Nov 7, 2014 11:56
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I think immigration is good for right wingers as you have precarious workers willing to do anything who won't resort to the courts if they're misused
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Nov 7, 2014 12:09
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Ludicro posted:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/07/ubani-rory-gray-killed-doctor-sued-pay-court Err he could have just not gone to scream racist insults on someone? It's not like paying legal costs if you lose is that unusual, and there's no punitive damage. Whereas the doctor went to jail for 9 months and had to pay a whole lot more. It was a tragic mistake but I don't really see why he should have his life ruined for it.
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Nov 7, 2014 12:11
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Private Speech posted:Err he could have just not gone to scream racist insults on someone? It's not like paying legal costs if you lose is that unusual, and there's no punitive damage. Whereas the doctor went to jail for 9 months and had to pay a whole lot more. It was a suspended sentence and he had to pay £6,000 (it just says the son had to pay "thousands of pounds" so not sure if it was more or less).
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Nov 7, 2014 12:18
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Private Speech posted:Err he could have just not gone to scream racist insults on someone? It's not like paying legal costs if you lose is that unusual, and there's no punitive damage. Whereas the doctor went to jail for 9 months and had to pay a whole lot more. Since when are "animal", "killer" and "charlatan" racist insults? Also the doctor had a suspended sentence, he hasn't actually gone to prison. This is not a simple tragic mistake, this is a case of staggering incompetence. He kills someone literally hours after entering the country, then flees to Germany after the fact and has the gall to sue when the relatives of the person he killed say some mean things to him. I'd say he got off lightly.
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Nov 7, 2014 12:46
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