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spinst posted:She's always drank a fair bit, but she's only 5/6 months old so I don't have much to compare it to… A cup a day at her weight sounds about right, maybe on the high end of normal (20-40ml per pound is average). Her diet will play a role as well - cats on dry food drink more than those on wet.
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Nov 4, 2014 20:34
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Danith posted:Update to my cat issues.. I thought he was doing better but on Sunday he started vomiting and hasn't stopped vomiting every couple hours. He hadn't had anything to eat on Sunday and today I was able to get him to eat some of his food by putting treats in it, but then 15 mins later it came back up. I don't think I can handle him. He's a nice cat but now there's vomit stains all over my carpet and I'm going broke with the vet visits. Think I'm going to call the animal humane society and see about them taking him back :| It kinda sounds like your cat has had health issues since you got him, going by your other posts. Is he still sneezing a lot? Not eating and vomiting up whatever you can get him to eat sounds like a potentially serious issue. Is he drinking water at least? Did the shelter you got him from have him looked at by a vet before you took him home?
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Nov 4, 2014 21:31
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Emasculatrix posted:I need to move my (almost) 14y.o. cat from the bay area to Seattle, and I'm trying to decide whether flying or driving would be less stressful for her. The vet gave her a certificate of health, but because she has a heart murmur, he wouldn't advise one over the other, or prescribe sedatives for her. The flight is 1.5 hours, plus the trip to/from the airport, and the time spent going through security. The drive is like 15 hours, and could mean 2 days stuck in a carrier. She's never flown before, but she's used to the car. My thought is that it'd be easier to keep her fed/hydrated on a short flight than 1-2 days in the car. Has anyone else ever done this? Any thoughts or suggestions? Would you be stopping overnight? If so, you could let her out of the carrier when you do, and she'll eat/drink/use the litter box when you do. I've driven my cats from Virginia to Colorado, and then (years later) from Colorado to Florida without any problems. Driving seems much less stressful for my guys than flying was (for the two of mine who've flown).
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Nov 4, 2014 23:22
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Elaieva posted:Would you be stopping overnight? If so, you could let her out of the carrier when you do, and she'll eat/drink/use the litter box when you do. I've driven my cats from Virginia to Colorado, and then (years later) from Colorado to Florida without any problems. Driving seems much less stressful for my guys than flying was (for the two of mine who've flown). Speaking of this, if you have one of those car pet fences things that turn the back portion of your car into a defacto crate, could you let the cats have the wagon space with some blankets and a litterbox for even less stress? I mean you'd have to pretty quickly pull over and empty the litterbox lest you die from cat poo poo in a small space smell. but if its a long rear end drive would it prevent say carrier messes or other issues?
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Nov 4, 2014 23:30
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toplitzin posted:Speaking of this, if you have one of those car pet fences things that turn the back portion of your car into a defacto crate, could you let the cats have the wagon space with some blankets and a litterbox for even less stress? My last drive (CO to FL) I connected a series of dog crates in the back of an SUV to make a SuperDuperCatTransportSystem, and had a litter box in the last of those. 6 cats, 3 days, and on the last day of the trip one peed in it. Nobody used it at all otherwise, they just held it until we got to the hotel. Driving from Virginia to Colorado, nobody used the litterbox at all. I'd still try to put one in there, or at least put a pee pad in the carrier, but ... in my experience they don't go in the car if they can possibly, possibly help it.
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Nov 5, 2014 02:53
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Dienes posted:As someone that did both, I recommend car. She's used to it, you have more control over the environment and can pull over to check on her at any time, less people and noise to freak her out. We have a cat that we need to move from Dallas to Seattle pretty soon here, and I would think that a four hour plane ride would be a hell of a lot less stressful overall than literally a week on the road? Or do I figure incorrectly?
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Nov 5, 2014 03:04
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Ev posted:It kinda sounds like your cat has had health issues since you got him, going by your other posts. Is he still sneezing a lot? Not eating and vomiting up whatever you can get him to eat sounds like a potentially serious issue. Got him at the animal humane society. So he was 'cared' for I guess... I actually had an appointment to bring him back at 2:40pm today but last night after he got food again, and threw it up.. he ate again an hour later and kept it down and since then he's been keeping his food down. I cancelled the appointment and still have him. His runny poop seems back but I'm hoping with time his stomach will settle down. I really didn't want to bring him back.
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Nov 5, 2014 23:19
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I want to re-evaluate what we are feeding our cats. We have them on a mix of Hill's Science Diet oral care and light hairball food. They seem very healthy and happy (the boy has always been lazy and yowly) but I want to make sure they are eating healthy food. There was a food megathread listed in the OP here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3394882 but since I don't have archives I can't see it. Is there a tl;dr version of what is recommended for cat food or can those more educated in the matter say what types/brands I should look for or avoid? Here is a photo of the assholes in question. Half blooded siblings (same Tom we're sure but different mothers) and have had them since they were kittens. They're about 6 now.  and for good measure... Kitten Pile!  Ginger is on the top of the pile and Cooper is to her right (I think). Colors have changed as they aged. slidebite fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Nov 6, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2014 21:19
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My standard recommendation is to use the cheapest food your cats like and agrees with them. As long as it is labeled "nutritionally complete" your cats will be fine. If they have allergies or particular medical conditions you may have to be a bit more picky, reading ingredient lists to make sure what is and isn't in it. Others here seem to have really strong emotional attachments to particular brands or types of food, so I will leave that to them.
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Nov 6, 2014 21:44
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Thanks for the reply. I was told by a few people that the "fillers" used in cat food (corn, wheat, rice) are potentially bad for cats and I'm basically slowly killing them  . That claim gets my skeptical radar piqued because "most" people buy mass-market foods, I know I have, and have cats live fine into their mid teens/twenties with regularity.. so it can't be that bad can it?Alternatively, I want to ensure my cats are as healthy as they can be and not be at risk for diet-caused issues (IE: urinary tract issues) so if I can give them something better I'm not against trying something new. Or should I even bother if they seem fine?
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Nov 6, 2014 21:57
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It's up to you, you can take a look at a few pages back where this very argument came up, Deteriorata was a part of that discussion as well so using the ? on his name should help you find it. The current pet nutrition thread is http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3549663
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Nov 6, 2014 22:05
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Thanks very much. I did a quick look but must not have looked far enough back. If I have any more questions I'll post again. 
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Nov 6, 2014 22:09
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slidebite posted:Thanks for the reply. There is no actual evidence of this that I'm aware of. My personal opinion is that people like to dote on their cats and look for reasons to justify spending lots of money on them. I don't really have a problem with that, as I dote on my cats too. I object when people make claims that have no basis in fact, though.
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Nov 6, 2014 22:19
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The newer edition of the pet nutrition thread is here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3549663 The general recommendation (like, from vets) and consensus I have found is that cats are obligate carnivores so the more protein and less carbs, the better. ANY wet food is considered better than dry food, but there are good dry options too (my cat will only eat dry food so I had to find one). Based on what I've read, I think that pet food fillers "slowly kill" in the sense that that is what eating junk food does. Since cats need basically nothing but meat, anything that isn't kind of ends up just being the equivalent of junk food. But if your cats aren't fatties then it's not necessarily a huge deal unless your vet says it is or something. It's good to give them the best food possible, but cats are shitheads who hate change, so your mileage may vary.
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Nov 6, 2014 22:47
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Figured I'd post an updated photo of my Cornish Rex Digby:
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Nov 7, 2014 00:52
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Fortis posted:The newer edition of the pet nutrition thread is here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3549663 I am genuinely open to learning what the skinny is but "slowly kill" like junk food sounds really alarmist. I'm not saying it's wrong, it just sounds a lot like the same bullshit we hear on the human side like wheat and GMOs kill you. That said, I really appreciate the info folks and will settle down and do some further reading on the info linked above.
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Nov 7, 2014 01:16
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slidebite posted:I was under the impression wet food was bad due to it promoting dental issues? I was quoting (well, paraphrasing) what you said initially and I put it in quotes myself for a reason! A food with some carbs isn't going to kill a cat but the consensus tends to be that it's less than healthy. What I meant is it isn't slowly killing them any more than an unhealthy diet would a human. Dry food is better for their teeth but nutritionally wet food is said to be better. You can always do both! Many people feed their cats wet food in the morning and some dry food in the evenings or something like that.
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Nov 7, 2014 01:35
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Dry food has no dental benefits unless it's actual dental food.
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Nov 7, 2014 01:37
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Fortis posted:I was quoting (well, paraphrasing) what you said initially and I put it in quotes myself for a reason! A food with some carbs isn't going to kill a cat but the consensus tends to be that it's less than healthy. What I meant is it isn't slowly killing them any more than an unhealthy diet would a human. Thanks, sorry that I inferred when I shouldn't have. Braki posted:Dry food has no dental benefits unless it's actual dental food.
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Nov 7, 2014 01:54
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Just got the kittens back from the vet. Two spay, two neuter. The girls have collars and pretty large cuts stitched together. They are all very excitable, and especially right now. Should I put the girls in a separate room for the night or should it be fine?
Slickdrac fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 02:17
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Deteriorata posted:There is no actual evidence of this that I'm aware of. When you say there's no actual evidence, are you talking only about something like decent scientific studies showing that cats will live longer on average on x type of food rather than y type of food or are you also including scientific understanding of what kinds of foods cats are capable of digesting/"designed" to eat? I try to feed my cat high animal-protein low carb cat food because to my knowledge they're much better at digesting it. I really doubt that there are any studies that definitively show it increasing lifespan one way or the other simply because I don't think there's enough interest/money available to research it like that. That said, I actually pay slightly less for the supposedly-awesome food I'm feeding her now than I was for supermarket "crap" so I'd still do it anyway just in case. ETA: That said, I'm still pretty sure most "grain-free" advertising is misleading and pointless. Most food I've seen advertising itself as grain free just has pumpkin or some other kind of plant matter instead of grains, and I'm not sure that's any better aside from sounding better to people. Organza Quiz fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 06:05
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Right, just because something hasn't been scientifically proven via double blind studies, it doesn't mean we can't use common sense about things. Feeding a cat a diet close to its natural diet makes sense.
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Nov 7, 2014 06:12
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Christ, it's this guy again. This just in! Feeding a cat meat is better than feeding a cat not-meat. Source: common sense. That said, I have had a cat live to 24 on lovely grocery store kibble and friskies, so "slowly killing" might be a bit much. Quality of life, however, I do believe goes up with better food.
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Nov 7, 2014 06:20
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Organza Quiz posted:ETA: That said, I'm still pretty sure most "grain-free" advertising is misleading and pointless. Most food I've seen advertising itself as grain free just has pumpkin or some other kind of plant matter instead of grains, and I'm not sure that's any better aside from sounding better to people. That's why protein/fat content is so important for picking a food. I really like Merrick grain free because it has something like 40% actualy protein with an additional 35% fat which means only like 25% non-grain filler like veggies, potato, etc.
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Nov 7, 2014 07:58
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slidebite posted:Thanks, sorry that I inferred when I shouldn't have. I was told (by my vet) that even dental food/dental treats don't do much for cats because they don't really chew their food. The pieces would have to be quite large to force the cat to actually chew it, which is where the benefits come in. If you're seriously concerned with dental health, you need to brush the cat's teeth. Wet food, on the other hand, is preferred because chronic dehydration is a serious issue with cats. They naturally get most of their hydration from their prey and don't have a strong natural thirst drive, so they don't drink enough water to compensate for the lack of moisture in dry food.
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Nov 7, 2014 09:11
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Apparently raw chicken necks are good toothbrushes for cats though. They really work all of their teeth tearing into them.
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Nov 7, 2014 09:20
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Daily Forecast posted:This just in! Feeding a cat meat is better than feeding a cat not-meat. I'm actually kind of on the fence about this. I mean, common sense is often wrong about things, that's where empirical evidence comes in. I'm too lazy to try and find the scientific backing for how cats digest things and what they should be eating though. Although now that I think about it I remember last time this came up Deteriorata found a study showing definitively that a cat's digestive system doesn't deal with carbohydrates very well and grudgingly admitted that high-protein foods might be better.
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Nov 7, 2014 13:03
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slidebite posted:I don't think it's so much has dental benefits as isn't quite as bad as wet is for dental health. But then again, I'm just a layperson and only have anecdote from speaking to vets. I'm a vet, and the vet school I graduated from actually had a dentist to teach us about stuff like this. It's a myth.
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Nov 7, 2014 15:02
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Organza Quiz posted:I'm actually kind of on the fence about this. I mean, common sense is often wrong about things, that's where empirical evidence comes in. I'm too lazy to try and find the scientific backing for how cats digest things and what they should be eating though. Although now that I think about it I remember last time this came up Deteriorata found a study showing definitively that a cat's digestive system doesn't deal with carbohydrates very well and grudgingly admitted that high-protein foods might be better. No, that's not how it worked. Up to certain level (about 10%, IIRC), carbohydrates in cat food have no measurable effect on the health of the cat. Above that digestive problems begin due to the carbohydrates fermenting in the digestive tract. This produces lots of runny poop, but does not seem to affect the cat much beyond that. Cats still need carbohydrates to survive, as their cell metabolism depends on glucose just like every other living creature on Earth. If their diet does not contain any, they have the biochemical processes to synthesize what they need. If they do eat some, they can just use it as is. Unless your cat has a specific metabolic disease, there is no benefit whatever from high protein foods and I have never suggested otherwise.
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Nov 7, 2014 15:17
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To be fair, I do feed them a mix of true dental food and low fat hairball food. They do typically chew a good portion of the smaller food, I know this from seeing the results from hairballs hence the hairball food... which really doesn't seem to do a drat thing. How does a person brush their teeth and how often?
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Nov 7, 2014 15:18
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slidebite posted:To be fair, I do feed them a mix of true dental food and low fat hairball food. They do typically chew a good portion of the smaller food, I know this from seeing the results from hairballs hence the hairball food... which really doesn't seem to do a drat thing. Just give your cats a bit of that malt hairball paste once in a while if they get hairball problems.
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Nov 7, 2014 15:27
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Organza Quiz posted:I'm actually kind of on the fence about this. I mean, common sense is often wrong about things, that's where empirical evidence comes in. This is true, but there isn't a financial incentive to study everything. When science is silent, sometimes we have to use our judgment.
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Nov 7, 2014 15:52
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duckfarts posted:Just give your cats a bit of that malt hairball paste once in a while if they get hairball problems. We do. Every couple weeks or so.
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Nov 7, 2014 16:13
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So I'm pretty sure Mortimer managed to fish a cooked chicken bone out of the trash and chow down, because the day before yesterday I found it half-eaten on the floor, so I threw it away (in a paper bag, this time), and I just figured that he only managed to fish out that little bit. Then last night when I came home from work I found a big puke on the carpet with a bunch of chicken bone fragments in it, and also a hairball on the couch, also with chicken bone fragments. There was no blood in either, his stomach feels fine, and he ate and kept it down and is acting completely normal. I read online that 1. vomiting blood and 2. not being able to keep food down were the two big signs to watch for. Did I get obscenely lucky, and should just keep a close eye on him? Sure teaches me to not be as careful with chicken carcasses as I should be. Jasper never did this poo poo, but Mort's a former stray so I guess I can't be surprised or even that mad. I don't think it would have been Jasper, but I felt his stomach too and he also feels fine, and kept his food down.
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Nov 7, 2014 16:29
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Maybe I'm an idiot who buys into the snake oil, but when I first switched my cats from lovely Kirkland food to premium stuff, it only took about a month to see a huge difference in their skin and coat. And my cats went from barfing once every couple weeks to once in the last four years. So yeah, going to keep going with that. Plus I just like the idea of US sourced, high quality ingredients. Garbage in garbage out.
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Nov 7, 2014 16:55
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Deteriorata posted:No, that's not how it worked. Up to certain level (about 10%, IIRC), carbohydrates in cat food have no measurable effect on the health of the cat. Above that digestive problems begin due to the carbohydrates fermenting in the digestive tract. This produces lots of runny poop, but does not seem to affect the cat much beyond that. Unless I'm reading the nutritional breakdowns totally wrong (which is certainly a possibility) most crappy supermarket cat foods have way more than 10% carbohydrates. If that's the level at which cats start having digestive issues then that's a huge point in favour of giving them something better as a factor in giving them the best standard of living as opposed to just spending money on them to feel better. TheAngryDrunk posted:This is true, but there isn't a financial incentive to study everything. When science is silent, sometimes we have to use our judgment. I totally agree. In the absence of scientific evidence one way or the other, I am very content to go with what my common sense and judgement tells me is best, which is giving my cat the most meaty stuff I can find. Personally, I'm going to buy the best food that I can afford and that my cat will actually eat. I'm just also open to the idea that it might not have as much effect as I feel in my heart that it should. And I'm certainly not going to argue against someone arguing otherwise just by stating that it's common sense.
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Nov 7, 2014 17:19
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Organza Quiz posted:And I'm certainly not going to argue against someone arguing otherwise just by stating that it's common sense. Yep. Most literally, "common sense" means shared opinions, so if there's disagreement, that sense is not common.
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Nov 7, 2014 17:31
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Organza Quiz posted:Unless I'm reading the nutritional breakdowns totally wrong (which is certainly a possibility) most crappy supermarket cat foods have way more than 10% carbohydrates. If that's the level at which cats start having digestive issues then that's a huge point in favour of giving them something better as a factor in giving them the best standard of living as opposed to just spending money on them to feel better. Hence decisions should be based on individual cats and their needs. Some deal with carbohydrates better than others. Let your own cat be your guide. We have one cat who's allergic to both rice and pork, so "grain free" in and of itself does her no good at all. She does fine with food with some grains, but we have to read ingredients labels carefully to get stuff she won't react to. There are no hard and fast rules. Do what makes your cat happy.
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Nov 7, 2014 17:44
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DrNutt posted:Maybe I'm an idiot who buys into the snake oil, but when I first switched my cats from lovely Kirkland food to premium stuff, it only took about a month to see a huge difference in their skin and coat. And my cats went from barfing once every couple weeks to once in the last four years. So yeah, going to keep going with that. Plus I just like the idea of US sourced, high quality ingredients. Garbage in garbage out. What do you feed them?
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Nov 7, 2014 20:28
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Deteriorata posted:Cats still need carbohydrates to survive, as their cell metabolism depends on glucose just like every other living creature on Earth. If their diet does not contain any, they have the biochemical processes to synthesize what they need. If they do eat some, they can just use it as is. An important note here is that cats will always make glucose from protein. Always. If there is no protein they will waste away their muscle to make their glucose. They would never get all their glucose needs from carbs themselves.
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Nov 7, 2014 20:43
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