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angryhampster posted:
Nah.  The Journey is actually a (sort of) platform-mate of the Outlander, except it's actually been updated comprehensively and is a superior vehicle in every way. No reason to buy an Outlander when the Journey exists. The estimated transaction price after incentives at the bottom of that page is $18k BTW. EDIT: OK the above config wasn't exactly comparable because apparently they still give you the 4 speed auto on the very bottom trims(probably still a better ride than a base Outlander but whatevs). I built another one for $25K, selling price $22k.  That's with V6, 6 speed, and AWD. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Nov 7, 2014 |
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Nov 7, 2014 17:02
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I forgot all about the Journey. Yea that's the only real competition in the same price bracket as far as I can tell.
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Nov 7, 2014 19:34
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Regarding the Dodge Journey and not to be all "I had one of those as a rental car once and it drove like poo poo" but holy poo poo it was horrible. Chargers are bad too.
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Nov 7, 2014 19:49
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I really like the latest bodystyle of Lancer. I'm just sad that Mitsubishi made it and not Mazda. That last gen 6 was loving ugly as balls. *drives off in gen 1 NC Miata moonbuggy*
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Nov 7, 2014 20:46
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I really wish they'd bring the 2-door Pajero to the US as a cheaper and smaller alternative to the Wrangler for those who want some off-road versatility but not a huge vehicle. The fuel economy would probably still be poo poo though.
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Nov 7, 2014 20:52
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The dodge journey is like a modern aztek, it is bad. It has stupid features that someone who would buy a minivan in 1992 would want. It is honestly the worst modern vehicle I've had as a rental.
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Nov 7, 2014 23:14
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Throatwarbler posted:(probably still a better ride than a base Outlander but whatevs). It's not. The Outlander may not be particularly competitive in its class but it is definitely lightyears ahead of the Journey (which is a vehicle without a single redeeming feature)
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Nov 7, 2014 23:24
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dissss posted:It's not. It's cheap. The same reason people still buy Mitsubishis in the US.
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Nov 7, 2014 23:28
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Taco Box posted:I really like the latest bodystyle of Lancer. I'm just sad that Mitsubishi made it and not Mazda. That last gen 6 was loving ugly as balls. Yeah but they look drat sharp with just a little bit of touch-up.  
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Nov 8, 2014 00:48
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It's funny. Mitsu used to be the 'bad credit' dealer, where people with crazy upside down loans had to go to get out from under them. Dodge took that title away a couple years ago with cars like the Journey and the Avenger. Dodge is getting back on track though. A guy I used to work with was like 8K upside on his loan on a E-class benz that was falling apart, the only car he could make the numbers work on was a Mitsu Galant. Decent enough car but the powertrain was straight 1998 (crappy 4 cyl mated to crappy 4 spd auto). He'll be out of it probably in 4 more years and can start fresh.
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Nov 8, 2014 00:54
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Christobevii3 posted:The dodge journey is like a modern aztek, it is bad. It has stupid features that someone who would buy a minivan in 1992 would want. It is honestly the worst modern vehicle I've had as a rental. I see them all the time too. Didn't even know they existed and then they were suddenly everywhere.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:01
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Speaking as someone who deals with rental cars of all makes, it should be a probatable offense to preface any model discussion with "I had one as a rental..." Discounting the fact that they are often the lowest trim (sometimes even lower than is available to the public generally), I can't name a rental I didn't beat the poo poo out of in misguided rage. That 10k mile brand X car had rattles and parts that broke, you say? It certainly wasn't because 10 guys like me who had that same car before you jumped it over railroad tracks, I'm sure.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:08
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skipdogg posted:It's funny. Mitsu used to be the 'bad credit' dealer, where people with crazy upside down loans had to go to get out from under them. Dodge took that title away a couple years ago with cars like the Journey and the Avenger. Dodge is getting back on track though. Nissan owns that nowadays. Altimas and Maximas abound in the bad credit market.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:25
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they are also the only modern car I know of where the floors rot completely out in under a decade
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Nov 8, 2014 01:31
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skipdogg posted:It's funny. Mitsu used to be the 'bad credit' dealer, where people with crazy upside down loans had to go to get out from under them. Dodge took that title away a couple years ago with cars like the Journey and the Avenger. Dodge is getting back on track though. Yeah Mitsubishi only stopped after their financing arm almost destroyed the company with bad loans.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:34
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Christobevii3 posted:The dodge journey is like a modern aztek, it is bad. It has stupid features that someone who would buy a minivan in 1992 would want. It is honestly the worst modern vehicle I've had as a rental. Don't forget the 4-speed auto. On a 2015 
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Nov 8, 2014 06:52
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angryhampster posted:Yeah but they look drat sharp with just a little bit of touch-up. That does look sharp! The second pic you posted reminds me of the old TL type S. Man those were some good looking cars. It's a shame Acura has lost the plot and made cars with hobart meat slicers for front ends.
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Nov 8, 2014 12:41
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angryhampster posted:Yeah but they look drat sharp with just a little bit of touch-up. Almost as sharp as 
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Nov 8, 2014 17:29
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Powershift posted:
Youre just as wrong about this as you have been every other time you bring it up. There are a bunch of reasons why local manufacturing is ending, chief being the market simply isnt big enough, coupled with years of Ford and Holden coming to depend on their large sedans when the market turned its back on them. 15 or so years ago Holden was selling 90000+ Commodores a year, now it cant even sell a third of that, and Falcon sales are even worse. Local manufacturing has been propped up by billions of dollars of government money for years (which is why Commodores and Falcons pretty much represent those "american prices" here - they are cheap) and yet Holden has turned losses for much of the past decade. Finally when the announcement to end manufacturing was made, all three car makers said labour costs were not a significant factor in their decisions, despite various anti-union groups trying to make out they were... ROFLBOT fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 19:06
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Labour costs, not just for ford/holden, but for their suppliers, basically makes the cars too expensive to export, leaving australia as the only market for them. If it was just the large cars not selling, ford could build the focus or other in demand cars, and utilize the existing manufacturing and supplier infrastructure. A lot of similarly populated countries are able to produce half as many vehicles as they consume like canada, belgium, and sweden. Metal isn't more expensive in australia. Plastic isn't more expensive in australia. People are. It's not just the auto industry being propped up by subsidies while producing an unexportable product. 8 of australia's top exports are raw materials, where labour cost is a very small part, and nothing in the top 10 is manufactured. Canada, who's dollar experienced nearly identical changes in the time period, has manufactured items as the second and third largest exports. There are other substantial hurdles like relatively small population and remoteness but having to pay double for labour even compared to other developed nations isn't going to attract any investment. There is no incentive to re-tool plants to produce popular models when in the end it isn't economically feasible to export them. There are very few examples of large scale manufacturing being successful by only catering to the local market.
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Nov 11, 2014 08:51
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I think Canada has a similar problem in nature, just not to the same extent. Canada is substantially larger in terms of population (35mil vs 23mil) and is located closer to and has a free trade agreement with the majority of its export markets. Australia's export markets are a bit more difficult to deal with - not impossible, eg the US exports huge numbers of BMW and Mercedes shitboxes to China, but still quite difficult. In car new: Wrap it up rotary-ailures, it's not coming back, http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/10/mazda-ceo-no-rx-sports-car-report/ In actually-not-that-bad-I-guess nomenclature news: http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/11/mercedes-name-changes-gl-maybach/ 
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Nov 11, 2014 16:33
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atomicthumbs posted:dissss lives in Myanmar. Truth is even worse than that. But yeah, it's a trade vehicle so no one pays list price. It's only carrying tools and post. E: Didn't they even have a more updated version of the van for a people carrier back in the late 1990s (starwagon or delica with a more pronounced nose/'bonnet'), that has probably been since discontinued? That old L300 is only around for ~$20k to kill tradies and posties Fo3 fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 17:44
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Powershift posted:Labour costs, not just for ford/holden, but for their suppliers, basically makes the cars too expensive to export, leaving australia as the only market for them. If it was just the large cars not selling, ford could build the focus or other in demand cars, and utilize the existing manufacturing and supplier infrastructure. A lot of similarly populated countries are able to produce half as many vehicles as they consume like canada, belgium, and sweden. Real estate and rental is the most expensive thing in Australia. Everything has to be near the city and coast, including factories and their workers. If you have to pay $400 rent to live*, and retailers and factories pay huge costs in rent, then everything becomes expensive. * Minimum. Next door pays $1200 a week rent for a 4 bedroom average house because of the area I live in, 7 min from the city, (houses valued at $1.5 million for average old suburban housing. Last place I owned a little further out (12 min from the city) bought for 640k, subdivided. house built on one half of the block and valued at 1m, vacant half block sold for $425k (340sq m) If I was to move I would be living further away from the city/everything and would be paying $380 /wk rent for a cheap place 40 min from the city, hence most employees want $800+ /week even for a factory job. Even if I lived in a small town 3-4 hours away from Perth, rent is no cheaper by the way. Of course factories don't need to be near the city, but many are, and the owners could just sell their land and make millions rather than run a factory, and not bother making anything in Australia any more as there's more money to be made flipping real estate or doing service jobs (building or repair trades or retail etc) Cost of land and rent near the cities/coast is the problem in this country, brought on because every man and his dog is in the property investment/speculation game, the bubble here is still ongoing. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 18:03
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I just read the rumouring that Jaguar may be working on a new inline-six. 
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Nov 11, 2014 19:50
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I appreciate mb simplifying their names but drat is it sad seeing 6 kinds of suv. If I were an alien reading about automotive news I would think humans didn't understand paved roads
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Nov 11, 2014 20:19
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http://m.autoblog.com/2014/11/11/2016-cadillac-ats-v-450-hp-pics-leak/?post=1&icid=autoblog_river_article Ats-v announced with twin turbocharged v6 making 450hp and gm underrates their forced inductions engines a bit, so Cobb or someone will probably be able to chip this to 500whp I bet. Mmmmm coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 23:29
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coolskillrex remix posted:http://m.autoblog.com/2014/11/11/2016-cadillac-ats-v-450-hp-pics-leak/?post=1&icid=autoblog_river_article This looks a lot better on the press pics than that earlier spy shot we saw. I wish it came in sedan form though instead of the coupe  I count 3 pedals in those interior pics so Im excited! Franco Caution fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 23:44
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Franco Caution posted:I wish it came in sedan form though instead of the coupe There's no way they don't have a sedan version. I'm guessing they've only announced this one to drum up some press for the ATS coupe in general.
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Nov 12, 2014 00:51
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Xguard86 posted:I appreciate mb simplifying their names but drat is it sad seeing 6 kinds of suv. If I were an alien reading about automotive news I would think humans didn't understand paved roads Benz drivers don't either. I've seen whatever the minvian-looking one is idling along I-95 at 20mph with hazards on during typical summer storms here. They're just station wagons that are socially acceptable to buy.
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Nov 12, 2014 01:40
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Cocoa Crispies posted:Benz drivers don't either. I've seen whatever the minvian-looking one is idling along I-95 at 20mph with hazards on during typical summer storms here. They're just station wagons that are socially acceptable to buy. It's going to be funny in 20 years when no one wants these SUVs because they don't want to become their parents and all the manufactures pivot back to self driving minivans you can walk around inside.
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Nov 12, 2014 17:06
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Xguard86 posted:It's going to be funny in 20 years when no one wants these SUVs because they don't want to become their parents and all the manufactures pivot back to self driving minivans you can walk around inside. If that's your view of the world 20 years out, i guess. I, personally, can't wait to see you trying to attach 500lbs of armor plating, and hauling 400 liters of fuel you recovered from abandoned vehicles in your hatchback while still being able to outrun cannibals in football pads riding dirtbikes. Xguard86 posted:I appreciate mb simplifying their names but drat is it sad seeing 6 kinds of suv. If I were an alien reading about automotive news I would think humans didn't understand paved roads I don't get the hate of current CUVs. It's basically a hatchback/wagon with the ride height to clear curbs when parking and the suspension to absorb potholes. It gives you a more natural seating position, a better view of the world around you, allows you to run a sidewall height tall enough to save your wheels from curbs, and with modern tech isn't at a disadvantage when it comes to basic performance and safety. It seems feelings are being tainted by the mental image of hummers and excursions coming up any time "SUV" is mentioned. The automobile is returning to what it started out as before vanity began to shape it. A vehicle with the proportions of a ford model A would be labeled an SUV and hated when really it is the most basic and practical shape. We're at an automotive renaissance where outside of mitsubishi and a handful of decade old models, there are really no bad vehicles. You're spoiled for choice in whichever segment you shop and even if you make the worst possible choice in the segment, it's not chevy caviler bad. The compact/midsize CUV is really what most of the population should be in, and it frees up remaining models to be built as they should without comprises made to appeal to those drivers. The full size car can become a RWD landbarge again because the people who couldn't park it are in lexus RXs and BMW X3s. The muscle cars can get more hardcore and performance oriented because the old man who wants a cruiser can afford a well restored classic again. The driving experience of the average hatch can get more driver oriented because the people looking for a more comfortable ride are in escapes and XV crosstreks. The market is slowly becoming what we want it to be, but you still get confused when others get what they want from it as well.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:44
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Re the 'no bad vehicles' thing - you just wait until the Chinese stuff starts hitting your market.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:03
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dissss posted:Re the 'no bad vehicles' thing - you just wait until the Chinese stuff starts hitting your market. I can't see the really bad chinese stuff being economically viable in north america. Vehicles are so cheap compared to the rest of the world, there isn't much room to undercut. As an example, the chery J11 undercuts the ford kuga(escape) by $11,000 in australia. Using direct exchange rates, they could only undercut the escape(kuga) in the US by $4,000. The chery J3 undercuts the focus by $8600 in australia, in the states it would only be by $3000. That is also assuming it wouldn't cost extra to federalize it to US/NA standards. The Alfa 4c gained 300lbs to meet US standards, and the Elise isn't sold by a road car. I can't see chery engineering being that far ahead of lotus or fiat/alfa.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:26
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I vote they just import these beasts
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Nov 12, 2014 20:27
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The increased ride height and mass necessarily sacrifices some fuel efficiency and handling though, both of which I won't compromise on. That, and people who drive CUVs never seem to be able to see out of the things, but that's likely driver-related.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:30
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a primate posted:The increased ride height and mass necessarily sacrifices some fuel efficiency and handling though, both of which I won't compromise on. That, and people who drive CUVs never seem to be able to see out of the things, but that's likely driver-related. You don't have to, they're not taking cars away by selling CUVs. The ford escape is lighter than the fusion. A 4matic GLA 250 is 200bs lighter and has more roadholding ability than an acura TLX AWD, even the GLA 45 AMG is lighter. And yeah, being able to see out of and making the effort to are very different things.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:52
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Powershift posted:If that's your view of the world 20 years out, i guess. You have done the impossible: a post on the internet has changed my mind. Long live the CUV also: I haven't bought/used a new car in 7 years. My new job has me traveling so I've been renting cars a lot. Holy poo poo is it true you basically cannot get a truly awful car. I feel like Rip Van Winkle sometimes, "This Dart is pretty nice! its got the blue tooth!" Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 22:08
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I was looking at picking up a CUV just today as a matter of fact!
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Nov 12, 2014 22:18
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Mr. Wiggles posted:I was looking at picking up a CUV just today as a matter of fact! I love these things. Also, I have to laugh at the notion of someone not being willing to compromise on fuel efficiency and handling. Really? No compromises at all? How does that work, exactly?
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Nov 12, 2014 22:49
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Powershift posted:If that's your view of the world 20 years out, i guess. This is well said but are you of the opinion most people are driving over curbs? Why would wagons have any more problems with curbs and potholes than cars do? I've always just viewed CUV's as wagons with 3 inches more ground clearance I don't need.
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Nov 12, 2014 22:54
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