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Irony Be My Shield posted:Oh no your team might have to have classes other than scouts to complete the push You got me, I'm mad because I can't win on a team of 12 scouts and not because there are two entire gamemodes where having a scout is effectively guaranteed to be a wasted player slot.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:02
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Zero! posted:Bug fixes and Merasmus shouting about ducks forever. Hey was that moonbase map they made a blog post about some months ago just transformed into Asteroid? They only gave one bit of concept art and it looks a bit different.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:16
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Fojar38 posted:You got me, I'm mad because I can't win on a team of 12 scouts and not because there are two entire gamemodes where having a scout is effectively guaranteed to be a wasted player slot. Wait a minute...I think I remember seeing you earlier in a match. I'm 420 airblast erryday and I may have been tooling around with my sydney sleeper and telling everyone they got rekt after I killed 'em. Also sentries gently caress up scouts, deal with it. I play a lot of scout and if I'm having problems with sentries I switch class and take them out. You already have high speed, high mobility and high burst damage as a scout, you don't need to be able to smash sentries apart on your own on top of that. Slime fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 01:19
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Slime posted:You already have high speed, high mobility and high burst damage as a scout, you don't need to be able to smash sentries apart on your own on top of that. Right, only Demoman gets all of those 
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Nov 8, 2014 01:25
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Slime posted:Wait a minute...I think I remember seeing you earlier in a match. I'm 420 airblast erryday and I may have been tooling around with my sydney sleeper and telling everyone they got rekt after I killed 'em. I remember getting killed by Pyroes a lot earlier while playing demoman but I haven't gotten killed by a pee shot as of late so I dunno.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:27
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Overwatch appears to have teams capped at 6v6.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:32
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Fojar38 posted:I remember getting killed by Pyroes a lot earlier while playing demoman but I haven't gotten killed by a pee shot as of late so I dunno. I may also have been playing as a fish using scout.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:50
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Otacon posted:Overwatch appears to have teams capped at 6v6. Also, all the kill messages just use the class name, so it looks like there'll be a class limit of 1. It might even be a fixed class comp, where the attackers are always these six classes and the defenders are those six.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:54
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Also, all the kill messages just use the class name, so it looks like there'll be a class limit of 1. It might even be a fixed class comp, where the attackers are always these six classes and the defenders are those six. I think that that was just for demonstration purposes.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:59
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Overwatch is probably being designed with consoles in mind, even if the PC is usually Blizzard's focus. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some unfortunate limitations on it due to that. But hopefully people can mod it to be a bit more open player-count-wise.
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Nov 8, 2014 02:18
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Fojar38 posted:You got me, I'm mad because I can't win on a team of 12 scouts and not because there are two entire gamemodes where having a scout is effectively guaranteed to be a wasted player slot. Remember when their plan to make Scout viable in Dust Bowl was to give him the Sandman which was universally reviled until they finally made it a stupid gimmick? And then they apparently abandoned the idea that Scout should matter outside koth and 5cp forever and released years worth of weapons you could call Scoutfucker 5000. Fojar38 posted:I think that that was just for demonstration purposes. If composition isn't locked, Reaper is going to be "my entire team is useless spies and snipers" times a billion. I mean look at him. Go back in time and bring your 14-year-old self to the present and ask him or her which character they want to play. Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 02:25
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Kelp Plankton posted:Overwatch is probably being designed with consoles in mind, even if the PC is usually Blizzard's focus. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some unfortunate limitations on it due to that. But hopefully people can mod it to be a bit more open player-count-wise. I'm pretty sure they said its not coming to consoles.
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Nov 8, 2014 02:37
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That game looks like they want to take the sorts of abilities you'd see on MOBA characters, and put them in an FPS. (NOTE: my experience with MOBAs is minimal)
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Nov 8, 2014 02:39
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Ditocoaf posted:That game looks like they want to take the sorts of abilities you'd see on MOBA characters, and put them in an FPS. (NOTE: my experience with MOBAs is minimal) Yeah it looks really similar to Super Monday Night Combat, in a good kind of way. They even have a well mannered talking gorilla with glasses. RIP MNC2.
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Nov 8, 2014 02:40
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CoolCab posted:Right, only Demoman gets all of those
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Nov 8, 2014 02:42
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At the scattergun's effective range, does it even matter that it's hitscan?
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Nov 8, 2014 02:52
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Powercrazy posted:Pyro w/airblast just slows the game down now and other than a few niche situations any other class would be better. I wish they would make the airblast more skill based, and not allow it to be spammed so much. Maybe make the airblast cost more, but if you reflect a rocket you get the a half-refund, and if you hit the same character more than once, it costs double. Basically, poo poo or get off the pot. Because being repeatedly airblsts by a pyro isn't really that fun. The skill ceiling on Pyro is pretty high, though. The projectile classes are some of the most dangerous in the game, and Pyro does a pretty good job of shutting them down. If reflecting had a longer range than sticky blasts, career pyros would be a major threat.
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Nov 8, 2014 03:22
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Jippa posted:I'm honestly not that guy who constantly complains about valve (I'm a massive supporter of them) but these last few patches have just broken the game. It's complete amateur hour. Remember all those damage changes for the rocket launcher, they were all just a "mistake" as well. Yeah, I'm starting to laugh at all the "mistakes" that get put into live play. Very few balance changes have been admitted as such, the stickybomb launcher change is the only one that comes to mind. The patchnotes are always "Bug: the minisentry hitbox was too small for 4 years. Bug fixed." So like, no one playtested the minisentry for 4 years? Is that what I'm supposed to believe? At least have the balls to admit you're making balance changes to items that need it. quote:July 8, 2010 Patch (Engineer Update) Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 03:25
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Edit: this was a bad post.
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Nov 8, 2014 03:37
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The confusion probably arises because as a good (or even moderately competent) player the responsibility of dealing with sentries often falls to you, so you are pretty much forced away from scout. If you have other decent team-mates then you can go scout to deal with the enemy dudes (or even to help with the sentry if you take Bonk!).
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Nov 8, 2014 03:40
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Doctor Shitfaced posted:If you think Scout is useless outside of 5CP and KotH you're bad at Team Fortress 2. I've seen hundreds of Payload and Attack/Defend games won due to the increased capture speed of a Scout, while other teammates help deal with sentries. They're also one of the best flag carriers in the game besides the Pyro for CTF & SD. Every class and loadout has a conceivable niche, but is a scout really that much better at cart-pushing than a demo or soldier with the Pain Train? Or even just a stock soldier/demo/heavy? Putting out enough damage to force enemies to keep their distance is an advantage, too. The Scout is a pick class, that's the niche it fills. It's there to pick a medic or wipe a soldier or demo, maybe even a heavy depending on circumstances. The classes who actually win a game. Like sniper and spy, a team full of scouts just doesn't have the push power to reliably win against serious players in payload. e: Doctor Shitfaced posted:Edit: this was a bad post. Nah you're fine. Scout is a serious threat to the classes that do serious things, and a scout on the cart definitely helps get the cart where it needs to go. But the guy above is right, it's a "1-2 per team, tops" kind of class, and in an uncoordinated team you're better off playing other classes. In highlander or something, it's definitely a power class. As medic, "scout pushing my poo poo in" is one of the things that usually leads to the team losing, right behind "soldier pushing my poo poo in". Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 03:40
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I feel completely different about scout in Highlander. My experience (and what I see of other teams) has been that Scout is one of the least important classes in the format. That's not a complaint, a plea to buff Scout, or a demand to nerf anything else. I think pretty much everything rotten about playing scout is limited to pubs (and payload in any format.) But most of the time you're just watching your flanks or cleaning up for the demo. If you're frequently making high-impact picks in Highlander, I feel like your team was already winning handily because someone is horribly out of position.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:43
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Dabir posted:At the scattergun's effective range, does it even matter that it's hitscan?
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Nov 8, 2014 05:51
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I get this impression that scout is pretty much the only class that does worse with the more people there are on the server, so like in a game with twelve people scout's a lot more important than one with twenty four, at least that's my experience. I suppose generally less spam, easier abilty to flank and lower likelihood of tons of sentries popping up might be the cause.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:52
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Yeah if you're playing Scout on a 32 player server you'll find yourself constantly getting gibbed by rogue grenades/rockets and running face-first into a lost Pyro while trying to flank.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:54
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I don't think Payload or A/D inherently disadvantages scouts, it's just a function of map designers creating bad turtley maps. Look at Thunder Mountain stage 3, it's a scout's playground. Even if one of the side points is locked down by sentries the central area remains relevant and wide open for scouts.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:57
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I feel completely different about scout in Highlander. My experience (and what I see of other teams) has been that Scout is one of the least important classes in the format. But most of the time you're just watching your flanks or cleaning up for the demo. IDK if it's as true for hl as for 6s, but cleaning up for demos is really important?
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Nov 8, 2014 06:02
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It's important but your opportunities to do it are fewer, I think, and cleanup entails a lot more one-for-one trades because there's just so many more hit points and so many more shots in clip, and the slowness of the format only emphasizes it further. Scout can do work but he's miles from the bloodthirsty pack-hunting gloryhound class he gets to be in 6s.
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Nov 8, 2014 06:08
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Gabriel Pope posted:I don't think Payload or A/D inherently disadvantages scouts, it's just a function of map designers creating bad turtley maps. Look at Thunder Mountain stage 3, it's a scout's playground. Even if one of the side points is locked down by sentries the central area remains relevant and wide open for scouts. It's a fundamental flaw of Payload and A/D that maps must be turtley because turtling is how RED wins. They can't take any ground, the only way for them to win is to keep BLU from winning for a certain amount of time. If the map discourages turtling it is imbalanced against RED.
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Nov 8, 2014 07:42
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Nehru the Damaja posted:It's important but your opportunities to do it are fewer, I think, and cleanup entails a lot more one-for-one trades because there's just so many more hit points and so many more shots in clip, and the slowness of the format only emphasizes it further. fair enough. In related news extine is trying some bizarre new format. Did anyone take a look at those games? They were kind of fun to watch I guess.
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Nov 8, 2014 07:54
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cock hero flux posted:It's a fundamental flaw of Payload and A/D that maps must be turtley because turtling is how RED wins. They can't take any ground, the only way for them to win is to keep BLU from winning for a certain amount of time. If the map discourages turtling it is imbalanced against RED. Maybe I'm narrow minded but I don't think all classes are equally useful on all stages of a map. There are times when, yeah, you could play a scout but you'll struggle more to find a purpose. I guess it really does come down to are there flank routes that can put the scout somewhere useful and is there back field to play in. If the entire enemy team is turtled up on the last point then sure maybe a scout isn't the best choice but aren't they just begging for an uber push? I actually most often pick one class and 'see it through' for the whole round but I don't think that's optimal.
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Nov 8, 2014 13:57
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Scout is always the best class to patrol the backfield, pick off stragglers who are going for healthkits, spycheck, scout out and pick medics. They punish other players for being out of position, attack them while they're making their way to the front and unaware or low on health from jumping, punish Engineers for moving their gear, harass and split offensive pushes. Making a player pointlessly chase you for 30 seconds is more valuable then killing them on a 5 second respawn. They have plenty to do on good cart maps. e: basically if I see three Scouts on my team I'm nowhere near as pessimistic as three Spies.
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Nov 8, 2014 14:12
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Collateral Damage posted:Two players working together is worth 4-5 disorganised pubbies. Three above-average players working together can easily carry 9 other drooling retards against a full team of 12. So the game should be changed so that people actually playing as a team are punished by being separated?
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Nov 8, 2014 16:12
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Fojar38 posted:You got me, I'm mad because I can't win on a team of 12 scouts and not because there are two entire gamemodes where having a scout is effectively guaranteed to be a wasted player slot. Not every class has to be useful in every situation.
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Nov 8, 2014 16:18
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Dabir posted:At the scattergun's effective range, does it even matter that it's hitscan? It helps that it doesn't blow up in your face.
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Nov 8, 2014 16:49
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pisshead posted:So the game should be changed so that people actually playing as a team are punished by being separated? Of course everyone should try to work together. That's how you win. If you come into a game with your friends, that means you have a huge advantage from the word "go", because you start at a level of teamwork that random strangers will struggle to reach. Sometimes that makes for great games! But sometimes it's the opposite of great: such a one-sided stomp that a team-scramble happens. My only problem, personally, is when people try to undo that necessary scramble. Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 17:19
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When you're far enough away from a rocket launcher it stops drawing it as a proper circle, it becomes a simple pentagon. Has it always done that?
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Nov 8, 2014 17:25
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cock hero flux posted:It's a fundamental flaw of Payload and A/D that maps must be turtley because turtling is how RED wins. They can't take any ground, the only way for them to win is to keep BLU from winning for a certain amount of time. If the map discourages turtling it is imbalanced against RED. Again: Thunder Mountain 3. RED has spots to dig in and turtle, but short of spawncamping a much weaker team they can never block BLU's access to main battleground areas--which, crucially, includes the final point.
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Nov 8, 2014 17:32
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CoolCab posted:When you're far enough away from a rocket launcher it stops drawing it as a proper circle, it becomes a simple pentagon. Has it always done that? Yep, those are known as LODs for Level of Detail. It's done to save processing time on rendering the details of something from a mile away when it's going to be a tiny blob of pixels on your screen. https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Model_optimization explains it nicely and has a bunch about what models do and don't have LODs defined in TF2. As well as this nice demonstration 
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Nov 8, 2014 18:03
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Just wondering, is there a way to force TF2 to use the low poly models all the time? I don't need to do it since my computer runs TF2 just fine, but I think I saw few videos where people were using those.
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Nov 8, 2014 18:06
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