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To be less curmudgeonly, I finally got around to milling my rusty old vice. I can't find the thread I made, but I came across an old milling vice and derusted, took apart and cleaned it up. And as a final step I tried to braze up the drill pock marks that some ape carelessly did. That didn't work out so well, and I set it aside. It was in my way, so I finally ran the hand wheels to mill the brass off. It at least made a pretty mess.  In retrospect, that was a waste of time, I would have been better off to just leave well enough alone and put it back together for its intended purpose. A free drill press vice to not worry about running a drill bit into every now and then.
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Nov 8, 2014 17:27
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No wastes of time, just ~learning experiences.~ What does it look like now that its done?
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Nov 8, 2014 18:13
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oxbrain posted:Get a Baldor 522 tool grinder with diamond wheels. no I mean you said HSS sucked what should I be using
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Nov 8, 2014 18:42
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The 500 is also good, but will require some work to get it running true enough for the diamond wheels.
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rotor posted:no I mean you said HSS sucked what should I be using Carbide.
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Nov 8, 2014 18:44
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rotor posted:no I mean you said HSS sucked what should I be using You can get brazed carbide tools for under $10 and grind them to whatever you need. They run faster, last longer, and give a better finish. As you get a good collection you can grind them for specific stuff like really high rake for aluminum and plastics.
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Nov 8, 2014 19:03
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oxbrain posted:You can get brazed carbide tools for under $10 and grind them to whatever you need. They run faster, last longer, and give a better finish. As you get a good collection you can grind them for specific stuff like really high rake for aluminum and plastics. I have a very small, low power taig lathe and have heard people say that sharp HSS bits are better for low power high speed applications is this true or have I been hoodwinked?
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Nov 8, 2014 21:54
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rotor posted:I have a very small, low power taig lathe and have heard people say that sharp HSS bits are better for low power high speed applications is this true or have I been hoodwinked? Better than coated carbide, possibly because of the edge blunting that occurs with PVD coatings. Better than uncoated carbide? I can't see any reason why that would be. Especially when you can use indexable inserts from reputable manufacturers. (Because theyll have a highly capable production process to control tungsten carbide grain size in the cobalt...hopefully) Also nothing about that lathe is "high speed" in any sense in the modern machining world. (I am assuming a sub-20,000 RPM spindle) Also, I am of the opinion that hand grinding stuff is for suckers unless you need an endmill like oxbrain posted above. But for your every day lathe bits? Screw that. The only exception is that I use an HSS part off/grooving tool cause the insert ones often dont go deep enough and only have two edges, and its super easy to grind those. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 22:07
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rotor posted:I have a very small, low power taig lathe and have heard people say that sharp HSS bits are better for low power high speed applications is this true or have I been hoodwinked? Not really that it's better, per se, more that carbide provides no advantages at all. You don't have the speed for it, and you sacrifice some toughness. You can get HSS tool bits absurdly sharp, though, which can be advantageous for non-ferrous materials since it shears the soft material and lowers cutting force. Most carbide isn't nearly that sharp (unless you're talking about special inserts.) Use HSS, it's cheaper.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:30
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CarForumPoster posted:No wastes of time, just ~learning experiences.~   For the brazing that stayed in when I hit it with the mill, I got it pretty smooth and even, if you run a bare finger over it you can't feel the edge. So that worked.  Of course, now I can't find the jaws. Guess I'll make a set of Aluminum jaws until the real ones turn up. And I need to make a vice handle.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:41
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rotor posted:I have a very small, low power taig lathe and have heard people say that sharp HSS bits are better for low power high speed applications is this true or have I been hoodwinked? Sorry for your uncool lathe.  Still get a tool grinder, but with aluminum oxide wheels. The ability to set precise angles helps a lot with any kind of form tool or threader. You still have to grind radii by hand, but at least you can maintain the right angle easier.
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Nov 9, 2014 04:42
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Would one of those little taig lathes be good for making watch case backs? I've always wondered how they make those things.
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Nov 9, 2014 04:47
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oxbrain posted:Sorry for your uncool lathe. yeah, if i knew then what i know now I probably would have gotten a bigger one, oh well live & learn quote:Still get a tool grinder, but with aluminum oxide wheels. The ability to set precise angles helps a lot with any kind of form tool or threader. You still have to grind radii by hand, but at least you can maintain the right angle easier. i just made the jig i posted before and use a couple small aluminum oxide wheels I chuck into the drill press. I haven't had to make any oddball bits yet, but who knows
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Nov 9, 2014 04:50
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rotor posted:i just made the jig i posted before and use a couple small aluminum oxide wheels I chuck into the drill press. I haven't had to make any oddball bits yet, but who knows Be very careful with that. Drill chucks are not designed to take side loads, and you can damage it, and potentially hurt yourself. Very small loads may not cause issues, but it's really not recommended. I second the suggestion for an actual tool grinder. You can get decent ones for a couple hundred dollars, easily (I think we got a 6" Jet from MSC that cost about $230.) I don't know Enco's costs, but it's probably cheaper.
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Nov 9, 2014 10:14
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Kasan posted:No, this is the $650 that I've seen for sale as low as $400 replacement part: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301366127993?lpid=82 OK, now that's the kind of price point where buying something that isn't made of chinesium starts to make sense. Thanks for pointing that out. Edit: Also, is the the best thread to talk about TIG welding, or am I missing a more appropriate thread? I'm getting a nice old Miller Dialarc HF this week that does stick and TIG. I've only welded GMAW/FCAW and stick, so this should be fun. I've wanted to learn TIG and specifically be able to TIG aluminum for quite some time. Motronic fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Nov 9, 2014 |
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Nov 9, 2014 16:02
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Motronic posted:Edit: This is the right place. TIG welding is amazing fun. Once you've learned the process, you can directly translate that into the original fuel based welding process: the oxy-fuel torch! I still use a torch for welding 14ga~ sheet metal sometimes.
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Nov 9, 2014 16:32
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Kasan posted:This is the right place. TIG welding is amazing fun. Once you've learned the process, you can directly translate that into the original fuel based welding process: the oxy-fuel torch! I still use a torch for welding 14ga~ sheet metal sometimes. OK, great. I've got a friend-of-a-friend who does this professionally, so I'm sure I can get him to come by and show me what's up if necessary but in the mean time I wanted to find some good resources for settings, what rod I should be using with what, electrode shape (and maybe what electrodes.....I don't even know if there are different materials or diameters), and pretty much all that kind of basic stuff. There is a ton of information easily found by searching, but a lot of it seems to have a healthy dose of "because this is the best way" where those "best ways" don't agree with each other. And other sites are obviously just trying to sell me DVDs. I don't know what to trust. Any pointers as to where to do my research for a complete and total newbie to this process?
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Nov 9, 2014 16:40
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Motronic posted:OK, great. I've got a friend-of-a-friend who does this professionally, so I'm sure I can get him to come by and show me what's up if necessary but in the mean time I wanted to find some good resources for settings, what rod I should be using with what, electrode shape (and maybe what electrodes.....I don't even know if there are different materials or diameters), and pretty much all that kind of basic stuff. There is a ton of information easily found by searching, but a lot of it seems to have a healthy dose of "because this is the best way" where those "best ways" don't agree with each other. And other sites are obviously just trying to sell me DVDs. I don't know what to trust. I found this to be helpful: http://www.amazon.com/Welders-Handb...rds=tig+welding
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Nov 9, 2014 19:59
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Motronic posted:OK, great. I've got a friend-of-a-friend who does this professionally, so I'm sure I can get him to come by and show me what's up if necessary but in the mean time I wanted to find some good resources for settings, what rod I should be using with what, electrode shape (and maybe what electrodes.....I don't even know if there are different materials or diameters), and pretty much all that kind of basic stuff. There is a ton of information easily found by searching, but a lot of it seems to have a healthy dose of "because this is the best way" where those "best ways" don't agree with each other. And other sites are obviously just trying to sell me DVDs. I don't know what to trust. I believe it's been mentioned, but Jody from weldingtipsandtricks on youtube is quite possibly the best TIG welding resource we as hobbiest have. His guides and recommendations have made me a better TIG welder, even after reading everything I could find online. I now run a Dynasty 200 with a CK-20 Flex head torch, using a #7 gas lens with 2% Lanthinated tungsten. It's the best setup I've ever ran, not the cheapest- but it's more then paid for itself in side jobs. For a bit of a redneck approach, check out ChuckE2009. He has some decent intro videos, but I'm biased to Jody's style. the spyder fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Nov 9, 2014 |
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Nov 9, 2014 20:00
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Motronic posted:OK, great. I've got a friend-of-a-friend who does this professionally, so I'm sure I can get him to come by and show me what's up if necessary but in the mean time I wanted to find some good resources for settings, what rod I should be using with what, electrode shape (and maybe what electrodes.....I don't even know if there are different materials or diameters), and pretty much all that kind of basic stuff. There is a ton of information easily found by searching, but a lot of it seems to have a healthy dose of "because this is the best way" where those "best ways" don't agree with each other. And other sites are obviously just trying to sell me DVDs. I don't know what to trust. I liked this guys presentation of the material: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiBxGI7fn4U
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Nov 9, 2014 20:02
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Kasan posted:This is the right place. TIG welding is amazing fun. Once you've learned the process, you can directly translate that into the original fuel based welding process: the oxy-fuel torch! I still use a torch for welding 14ga~ sheet metal sometimes. I had the reverse happen to me. I took a welding class focused on metal sculpture/art and the first thing they taught was OA torch work. When I got my first TIG, I was able to directly transfer heat control, puddle formation, and filler wire feeding over to TIG.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:04
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I want an inexpensive portable torch capable of light duty brazing and gets hot enough for heat treating small steel tools. Do I have any options besides oxy acetylene?
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Nov 10, 2014 03:20
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Those are pretty modest requirements, a decent atmospheric propane torch will probably do the job; hardware-store type may be fine, ideally with different tips plus a hose so you're not tipping the fuel bottle and making the torch flare. welding stores or jeweller's suppliers will have beefier and higher-quality options. Personally, I have a little O/A rig with an acetylene bottle and I'm probably going to pick up a propane bottle + regulator the next time I go back because I just don't find myself welding much steel at all with it and that crazy oxy-acetylene heat isn't remotely necessary for, you know, hard-soldering and stuff like that.
Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Nov 10, 2014 |
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Nov 10, 2014 05:52
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Those are pretty modest requirements, a decent atmospheric propane torch will probably do the job; hardware-store type may be fine, ideally with different tips plus a hose so you're not tipping the fuel bottle and making the torch flare. welding stores or jeweller's suppliers will have beefier and higher-quality options. Personally, I have a little O/A rig with an acetylene bottle and I'm probably going to pick up a propane bottle + regulator the next time I go back because I just don't find myself welding much steel at all with it and that crazy oxy-acetylene heat isn't remotely necessary for, you know, hard-soldering and stuff like that. Hey, I'm a modest guy. Once in awhile I'd like to be able to stick 2 pieces of metal together, like maybe black iron pipe or angle iron. Also want to do some heat treating on small blades and whatnot. But just from googling I was left with the impression that neither propane nor mapp would get hot enough for any kind of brazing or welding.
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Nov 10, 2014 07:48
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wormil posted:Hey, I'm a modest guy. Once in awhile I'd like to be able to stick 2 pieces of metal together, like maybe black iron pipe or angle iron. Also want to do some heat treating on small blades and whatnot. But just from googling I was left with the impression that neither propane nor mapp would get hot enough for any kind of brazing or welding. Look at air-acetylene torch tips. I was at AirGas the other day and they had some whiz-bang torch that would take propane, MAPP, and acetylene with different tips. The plumbers on our jobsites use turbotorch air-acetylene to braze 4" copper pipes, so the torches apparently put out quite a bit of heat.
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Nov 10, 2014 15:10
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Thank you for the advice. Looks like a good start. I'm sure I'll be back with lots of (likely dumb) questions once I take delivery and start burning some rod.
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Nov 10, 2014 15:18
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wormil posted:Hey, I'm a modest guy. Once in awhile I'd like to be able to stick 2 pieces of metal together, like maybe black iron pipe or angle iron. Also want to do some heat treating on small blades and whatnot. But just from googling I was left with the impression that neither propane nor mapp would get hot enough for any kind of brazing or welding. I've never done it but I've watched a decent amount of youtubes on the subject so I think I speak with some authority when I say "I've seen several people braze with propane torches and I'm pretty sure I've seen them harden small parts too" I think the brazing used two torches maybe idk I can't remember. also I saw a mappgas + oxygen thing at Home Depot that claimed to be hot enough to weld thin steel but who knows
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Nov 10, 2014 16:27
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wormil posted:Hey, I'm a modest guy. Once in awhile I'd like to be able to stick 2 pieces of metal together, like maybe black iron pipe or angle iron. Also want to do some heat treating on small blades and whatnot. But just from googling I was left with the impression that neither propane nor mapp would get hot enough for any kind of brazing or welding. Both will produce a flame more than hot enough to braze- most fuel gases will, including, theoretically, butane- the more important factor is the size of the material you're joining or heat-treating versus how many BTUs the torch spits out. Significant metal mass will steal torch heat away from the worksite, and if the torch is too small and/or the gas burns too cool, it'll take a very long time and waste a lot of gas to get anything done. Acetylene is nice because its very high flame temperature makes for faster and more efficient work due to minimizing heat loss to the rest of the part, but definitely isn't necessary, and if you're a hobbyist where time isn't money, the increased cost/inconvenience of access/safety issues surrounding acetylene might not make it worth it. Also, acetylene burns surprisingly dirty compared to propane et al- if you're in a garage everything will be covered in soot in short order. e: ^^^^^^^^ yeah I did lots of small-scale brazing and braze-welding with just a cheap plumber's torch, it's totally viable, albeit on a small scale and often with firebricks set up to give me some insulation for stock heavier than, idk, 3/16" round. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Nov 10, 2014 |
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Nov 10, 2014 16:33
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Need more heat than acetylene? If acetylene's paltry 6000+ degrees fahrenheit don't cut it, may I recommend dicyanoacetylene, which burns with oxygen at a toasty 9000+ degrees.
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Nov 10, 2014 16:40
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Okay good, I'll give propane a shot.
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Nov 10, 2014 17:53
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I have that mappgas + oxy fuel rig from Home Depot that I bought like 10 years ago to bend rebar into hooks for a dog fence. It easily got rebar red hot, but bending 40-50 hooks was like 4 Oxygen cans and 2 or 3 mapp gas cans. I recall those cylinders were on the pricey side.
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Nov 10, 2014 20:33
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I wont be working anything as heft as rebar. I'm a woodworker but I also like to make related tools and being able to heat treat small blades opens up a lot of possibilities. I would also like to make my own custom T bars for woodturning from 3/4" iron pipe, that's the part in unsure about.
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Nov 10, 2014 20:40
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If you don't need anything portable, you can also work with household natural gas. Setting up a rig in your garage or workshop shouldn't be that difficult, and it has the benefit of the fuel being extremely cheap, and not requiring you to store or handle tanks. e. Apparently one thing you can do is get a natural gas pressure booster, because the line pressure for household NG isn't high enough: http://www.gas-tec.com/ (These things seem pretty expensive though) And then you can add oxygen for welding temps or just burn with the air for brazing and heat treating and stuff like that. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Nov 10, 2014 |
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Nov 10, 2014 21:24
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FWIW, I am paying a fortune for acetylene right now and don't think it's going to get any better. (rural Michigan, about $30-40 for a little MC bottle) I got the bottles and torches for free from family, but if I was doing it from scratch I would buy an oxygen concentrator and an oxy-propane torch. The only thing you can't do with it is weld.
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Nov 10, 2014 21:44
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You pay so much for MC fills it ain't funny. If I were using anything other than a jeweller's torch I'd have sprung for at least a B tank or given up on being able to weld steel entirely and gone strictly propane.
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Nov 11, 2014 05:17
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Depeding on where you are your local natural gas provider may be willing to upgrade your pressure for free, I know I inquired a while ago about getting my propane forge working and they said they do the upgrade for free, because the cost of them doing the upgrade gets paid back pretty quick if you actually need that much pressure (Horizon utilities). Now I live in the middle of nowhere and don't even have natural gas service.
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Nov 11, 2014 05:43
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I'm sure this has been answered since it's a big thread, but what's a good metal to work with as a beginner, and how do you find metal that's cheap to work with as a hobbyist?
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Nov 11, 2014 06:41
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WobblySausage posted:I'm sure this has been answered since it's a big thread, but what's a good metal to work with as a beginner, and how do you find metal that's cheap to work with as a hobbyist? What kind of "work" do you want to do? Jewelry? Forming and relief work, like Ambrose posts about? Blacksmithing? Welding and fabrication? Milling? Turning? There's no real answer until you narrow things down at least a little bit.
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Nov 11, 2014 06:47
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Leperflesh posted:What kind of "work" do you want to do? Ah, sorry. Yes blacksmithing to start. Right now I'm mostly interested in creating small tools like woodworking chisels, metal punches, lathe hooks, etc.
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Nov 11, 2014 06:55
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ArtistCeleste posted:I haven't kept up with this thread lately. Sweet! thanks for the link. Ambrose Burnside posted:Dang, those are 'almost reasonable' prices for sheet. Shame about them being in the UK, I don't want to even think about how much itd cost to ship big sections of iron sheet overseas. I'm in the UK and I'm happy to buy a couple of bars and split it into chunks for you guys across the pond if you want a taste of this stuff.
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Nov 11, 2014 10:54
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WobblySausage posted:Ah, sorry. Yes blacksmithing to start. Right now I'm mostly interested in creating small tools like woodworking chisels, metal punches, lathe hooks, etc. Hit a farmers market or junk yard and find yourself some old fat Allen wrenches. Straightened out they make great punches. Old worn out files and rasps are a good start for edged tools as they harden very nicely.
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Nov 11, 2014 11:10
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