|
drilldo squirt posted:Wait is Russia really moving state companies offshore? How does that even work? They're moving the State Development Bank and state energy monopolies to Hong Kong. It works because China is funneling its foreign currency reserves to prop up Russia against collapse. Yes, Russia is receiving a Chinese bailout. Whether Putin knows now that he's Xi Jinping's bitch or not, remains to be seen. E: Hence why you see proclamations like this: http://rt.com/business/203523-russian-ruble-inflation-ulyukaev/ "Russian ruble to strengthen positions soon – economy minister" In conjunction with Chinese pronouncements like this: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-29788802 quote:Like many of his generation of Chinese leaders, [Xi Jinping] was dismayed by the collapse of communist rule in Moscow. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Nov 8, 2014 |
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 23:17 |
|
|
Lmbo if this china thinks that putin is going to pay them back at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 18:43
|
|
|
drilldo squirt posted:Lmbo if this china thinks that putin is going to pay them back at all. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/us-nato-quest-hegemony-risks-provoking-nuclear-conflict-claims-noam-chomsky-1473831 quote:US and Nato Quest For Hegemony Risks Provoking Nuclear Conflict, Claims Noam Chomsky Gee, I wonder why I posted what I did in Clancychat and why we continue to see a build-up for a winter offensive in Eastern Ukraine. Maybe its because this whole conflict has been about control over Black Sea energy all along? http://m.chinapost.com.tw/international/2014/11/09/421371/WTO-death.htm quote:“The process of negotiations within the framework of the WTO have practically ground to a halt,” said G-20 sherpa Svetlana Lukash, adding that several key decisions of the global trade body have not been implemented. "Developed" nation: Russia "Developing" nation: China What other signs do I see indicating this? Well, http://m.gulfnews.com/opinion/hungary-is-helping-putin-keep-his-energy-chokehold-on-europe-1.1409719 quote:A key Nato ally is cozying up to the Russian dictator and trying to help him build a $70 billion (Dh257.11 billion) pipeline to extend his reach into the heart of the EU. Gee, wherever was the insinuation made before that Russia funds extremist parties in central europe due to strategic energy concerns? In this thread, by me, talking about Russia's funding of right-wing movements in Hungary and other European nations. http://sptimes.ru/index_bp.php?action_id=2&story_id=41157§ion=70 quote:DOLLAR SHORTAGES SPREAD AMID RUSSIAN RUBLE COLLAPSE Where does one get dollars? http://rt.com/business/203087-putin-china-gas-deal/ quote:In May, China and Russia signed a $400 billion deal to construct the Power of Siberia pipeline, which will annually deliver 38 billion cubic meters (bcm) of gas to China. The Power of Siberia, the eastern route, will connect Russia’s Kovykta and Chaynda fields with China, where recoverable resources are estimated at about 3 trillion cubic meters. And what's that, China asked for Russian State Development Bank and Gazprom to move to Hong Kong as terms of the deal? Well isn't that a modern-day exchange of hostages to ensure follow-through.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 19:02
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:Not that that rambling isn't mostly bullshit , but none of that has poo poo to do with the military's capabilities. The " Strategic goals" you're talking about are failures of political decisions. Do you seriously belief that the US militaries capabilities are such that Russias military is not a threat? Did you even bother to read the article I linked (guy is a professor of your naval war college)? Russia is never as strong or as weak as she seems, and you are erring way on the "Russia is weak" side. It is also pretty typical to ascribe all failures to the politicians, (with few exceptions, all armies not achieving their goals did and do that all the time). This is akin to "How we would have won Vietnam if Washinton was smarter", "How we would have conquered Russia without Hitlers mingling" "How we would have beaten the Japanese without those evil advisors/friggin useless admirals of the Czar" etc. you get the drift. At the most basic level, your political leaders send you into a war in which you enjoyed every material advantadge over the adversary that you could possibly have. I would also note that the Taleban were only supported by (nevertheless influential) parts of Pakistan, while the various anti Soviet Mudjahedeen were supported by Pakistan, the USA, Iran and the Peoples Republic of China. Initially, you had substantial support from both Russia and Iran (in Russias case in terms of logistics, Iran borrowed you their militias, as did Russia), and the tacit acceptance of China and India. On that note, the political planners sending you into Afghanistan did a far better job preparing the political situation then Breznev. The only resource the Soviets had that you did not have was access to self trained muslim troops that can blend with the Afghan population. The Soviets used that, overused that, and then it backfired horribly. Your doctrine in Afghanistan failed because winning the hearts and minds of the population relies on winning the war and ensuring security first (The Soviet failure was different btw.). You have not managed to put the Taleban into a position in which they saw themselfs as "crap we have lost". This is a clear military failure. Some clear military failures: Your rotation system (not just yours, I am not whitewashing the failure of German units in Afghanistan either) ensured that the amount of experience actually gained that could be applied later was pretty much nill. Perversely, your "up or out", combined with the actually really low casulty figures ensured that "doing things by the book" (depending on what book was in charge at that time) was a far safer bet then trying to rock the boat. Your military also insisted in "not going native" when coalition forces going native was actually the thing the Taleban feared the most (This also worked for the Soviets, but to successfully go native in Afganistan requires some pretty competent guys, who may decide that they have better things to do then spending an unspecified amount of time in some Afgan village). I give you that the US military is less responsible for those failues than the political planners, as there is accountability for failures in the military (although trashtalking about the President gets you more fired then getting your soldiers killed) but absolutly no accountability for failures in foreign policy. However, there is also a military responsibility to tell the civilian planners that they are full of poo poo, even if this entails resignations.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 19:46
|
|
|
Mightypeon posted:words I still don't see how that justifies Russian invasion of Ukraine.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 20:01
|
|
|
Mightypeon posted:Do you seriously belief that the US militaries capabilities are such that Russias military is not a threat? Absent nuclear weapons, uh, yeah. Especially considering US military capabilities is the capabilities of all of NATO and various other allied countries as well, amounting to most of the world's military. That can surely crush Russia by itself.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
That custom av might be the single greatest investment I've made.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 20:04
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:Gee, I wonder why I posted what I did in Clancychat and why we continue to see a build-up for a winter offensive in Eastern Ukraine. Maybe its because this whole conflict has been about control over Black Sea energy all along? That's kind of reductive, everything about the situation in Ukraine makes the Russian establishment dry heave. As Navalny put it in one of his articles, Putin saw an analogous crook get overthrown and people walking around his palace and photographing Yanuk's golden bread loaves and he is absolutely terrified of the same happening in Moscow. A pro-western government in Kyiv isn't a problem, Moscow could bribe and make good gas deals with the government that came after the revolution of 2004 just fine. This time they need to make an example out of it that there will be civil war as a result of any popular uprising. What's cool re: China is that they're overtaking Russian influence in exUSSR central Asian republics, so once the wall of state channel propaganda dies down Russians will wake up to find out that Putin made feel really good about themselves by getting Crimea back, but completely lost all influence in the former republics, from Ukraine to the stans. Even Kazakhstan and Belarus are freaked out about what Putin is desperate enough to do. Somaen fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Nov 8, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 20:06
|
|
|
jonnypeh posted:I still don't see how that justifies Russian invasion of Ukraine. It doesn't. Nothing justifies it except it gives people like MP a reason to vomit more word salads about how justified Russia is because evil America did it first. His schtick hasn't changed since he started posting here, meanwhile Russian atrocities in Ukraine get worse. Good grief, do people realize when the Dutch and Malaysians release their final report and tells the world Russia supplied the weapon that shot that plane down and killed 300 innocent people the Russian response will be to shrug and say, "The whole world is against us."
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 20:19
|
|
|
Somaen posted:That's kind of reductive, everything about the situation in Ukraine makes the Russian establishment dry heave. As Navalny put it in one of his articles, Putin saw an analogous crook get overthrown and people walking around his palace and photographing Yanuk's golden bread loaves and he is absolutely terrified of the same happening in Moscow. A pro-western government in Kyiv isn't a problem, Moscow could bribe and make good gas deals with the government that came after the revolution of 2004 just fine. This time they need to make an example out of it that there will be civil war as a result of any popular uprising. I do agree with your assessment that Putin blundered into this mess, and once in Crimea, couldn't back out due to the costs of sanctions and the capital infusion from China in May. Now that the situation is where it is, the issue becomes anticipating Putin's next steps and the likely reaction to them, both in Russian internal politics and in global affairs. Putin's popularity was waning, so he felt forced to invade Crimea rather than institute economic reforms and transition power. Invading Crimea resulted in sanctions, so Putin turned to China for a capital infusion while moving on Eastern Ukraine to secure control over additional energy resources worth more than the cost of the Crimean escapade. Now, with energy prices spiraling downward, Putin is forced to go all-in if he wants to maintain power--or attempt a deal with the west trading, say, Iranian nuclear ambitions for Russian domination of the Black Sea energy market. America doesn't seem to be budging on this and understands Putin's move as a long-term strategy to drive a wedge between Germany and America. Really, it seems like Putin feels himself cornered. I'm wondering whether a purge might emerge soon, similar to what China is doing. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Nov 8, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 20:24
|
|
|
I'm still sad that the mods didn't rename this thread to "it's not homonazi if the spheres don't touch" 
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 20:27
|
|
|
drilldo squirt posted:Lmbo if this china thinks that putin is going to pay them back at all. Oh man, that Russo-China War 203X scenario inches closer to reality with China launching a Ruhr-styled occupation of Siberia's oil reserves until Russia can pony up the dough.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
Mightypeon posted:I get the psychological fixation on "oh my god, Russia is evil therefore we are good", at home, the USA is transforming into an Oligarchy, it has a repression apparatus founded by direct seizures of property without even charging the victims with crimes, it wages a war on whistleblowers, happily destroys what is left of Unions, and establishes an internal apparate for mass scale repression whose capabilities may dwarf those of the NKVD. Your repression apparate also claims the right to execute by drone anyone anywhere without anything even remotely resembling due process. Except good he so loving isn't. Literally nothing Putin has done has he done out of anything other than self-interest. His sovereignty and exposing NWO and all that poo poo is just a front, just as hypocritical as the "western" influence he positions himself against. He's a very run of the mill dictator doing a pretty good job at quietly suppressing opposition and thus far maintaining a relatively civilized exterior image, though which at this point is heavily crumbling.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 22:55
|
|
|
Putin is a straight baller and has nothing but my respect.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
He's getting bitches, smoking trees, and getting paid which is all a man can really aspire to.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
Video from occupied Crimea. Terrified starving citizens are groaning under heel of russian occupants. It seems that they regretted their desire to be with russians. Now they are really want to go back to Ukraine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPaEYoPnA1k
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 23:38
|
|
|
http://youtubedoubler.com/dPPZ
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 23:43
|
|
|
TeodorMorozov posted:Video from occupied Crimea. http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/0fb85596-636c-11e4-8a63-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3IWHqnsJs I bet I know some Crimeans who would like to be part of Ukraine. e: and look what I stumbled upon. Crime And Crimea: Criminals As Allies And Agents - http://www.rferl.org/content/crimea-crime-criminals-as-agents-allies/26671923.html Interesting. e: having read it all the way through... Very drat interesting. Good luck subsidizing Crimean criminals, I guess. jonnypeh fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Nov 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2014 23:46
|
|
|
I need to put this on Facebook.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 00:32
|
|
|
TeodorMorozov posted:Video from occupied Crimea. This is really good but not in the way you think it is.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 00:40
|
|
|
TeodorMorozov posted:Video from occupied Crimea. lol should we even pay attention to this guy? like this is the definition of useful idiot edit: i wanna see this guy post in neue gbs 
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 00:49
|
|
|
Just published on Bellingcat Origin of the Separatists’ Buk: A Bellingcat Investigation, also available as a PDF.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 01:01
|
|
awesome-express posted:should we even pay attention to this guy? like this is the definition of useful idiot I think MightyPeon, as a German, is closer to the useful idiot definition. Teodor may actually be Russian, and therefore should have our sympathies as a brainwashed victim of Putinist ideology and propaganda.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 01:04
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:I think MightyPeon, as a German, is closer to the useful idiot definition. Teodor may actually be Russian, and therefore should have our sympathies as a brainwashed victim of Putinist ideology and propaganda. More specifically, he's an East German resentful that Honeker wasn't able to crush the bouguoise upstarts who brought down the wall. Teodor is definitely slavic, by my assessment.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 01:18
|
|
|
Lots of reports from Western journalists about armor, trucks and 122mm towed cannons of "unknown origin" moving through separatist controlled parts of Donetsk. AP alone saw 80 trucks. The movement was so obvious even the OSCE noticed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 01:34
|
|
|
I wonder what are the cultural policies of Russia. Given the current political climate i could almost see Putin unleashing a media campaign encouraging young people to reject western culture . I think it could work. It`s not the 1980`s anymore, russians are no longer in love with the west. They are bitter as hell, they migth actually be willig to say good bye to hip-hop and rock`n roll so to speak. Russia actually has som legit good culture that it could force feed the young while banning western cultural expressions. Is putin likely to go that far in order to shore up support?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 01:36
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:Lots of reports from Western journalists about armor, trucks and 122mm towed cannons of "unknown origin" moving through separatist controlled parts of Donetsk. AP alone saw 80 trucks. The movement was so obvious even the OSCE noticed. The only unknown at this point is how Ukraine will eventually feature on maps.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 01:50
|
|
|
Anosmoman posted:The only unknown at this point is how Ukraine will eventually feature on maps. Ukraine? I'd assume Novorossiya gets annexed with Transnistria, more or less. Russia? Well, its beginning to look a lot like Chinese Christmas:  What with Russia's loss of influence and all that. One of the larger questions is if Central Asia can access export pipelines which avoid going through Chinese and Russian aligned states. For the medium-term, Russia is discovering Asia much easier to work with than the west, and has continued to fund populist groups in Central Europe. E: You know, the more China puts into Russia, the more this may evolve from purely an issue of energy economics and involve Chinese food security.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 01:57
|
|
|
Mightypeon posted:Do you seriously belief that the US militaries capabilities are such that Russias military is not a threat? Holy gently caress dude, you have no loving idea what you're talking about. I'm on a phone so I can't (nor am I inclined to waste my time) go line by line with how each individual sentence of your " analysis" is so far up your own rear end it's almost impressive. But to answer your question, yes, Russia poses absolutely no military threat besides it's nukes. Edit: phone posting means typos Jarmak fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Nov 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 02:47
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:Holy gently caress dude, you have no loving idea what your talking about. I'm on a phone so I can't (nor am I inclined to waste my time) go line by line with how individual sentence of your " analysis" is so far up your own rear end it's almost impressive. But to answer your question, yes, Russia poses absolutely no military threat besides it's nukes. He's cool.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 03:12
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:Holy gently caress dude, you have no loving idea what your talking about. I'm on a phone so I can't (nor am I inclined to waste my time) go line by line with how individual sentence of your " analysis" is so far up your own rear end it's almost impressive. But to answer your question, yes, Russia poses absolutely no military threat besides it's nukes. The biggest difference that I remember is that Russian soldiers fire a significantly smaller amount of ammunition during training compared to U.S. soldiers. For instance, I believe the current U.S. marksmanship training course is something around 500 rounds per marksmanship qualification, which is twice for active duty and once per reservists. Russia's training for Spetsnaz, the most specialist of Russia's special forces, is supposedly something like 90 rounds of small arms ammunition per soldier per year. Putting live rounds down a course is the surest way to find out how accurate your soldiers are going to be, how to improve poor marksmanship, and get further experience with hearing gunfire and suppressing certain reflex responses (like blinking when firing), and reacting and responding to rapid moving targets under near combat conditions. Russia's armored corps is also lacking. It's reported by their current Russian defense minister that their tank crews train and qualify with 20 rounds per tank per year. An American Abrams crew uses something like 244 rounds plus 25 HEAT rounds in live fire training. The Russians supposedly trying to up this number to 150, but Shoygu was supposedly reacting to this earlier this year and hadn't managed to push through his recommendations by July. No wonder you have reservists working for the separatists confusing airliners for paratrooper transports. They just don't have the hours behind the screen.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 03:41
|
|
|
Im hearing lots of talk about how Russia is not a threat yet they are doing something we don't want them to do and we haven't done anything to stop them. Oh right, because they are a threat and not a bug to be squashed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 03:53
|
|
|
drilldo squirt posted:He's cool. He's a bald midget who's so desperately insecure that he has to constantly make these grand acts to pretend that he's cool, like drugging a stolen tiger and then shooting it to prove his masculinity or starting an illegal war against a non-hostile country. He's probably the least cool person on the planet.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 03:55
|
|
|
Niedar posted:Im hearing lots of talk about how Russia is not a threat yet they are doing something we don't want them to do and we haven't done anything to stop them. Oh right, because they are a threat and not a bug to be squashed. You must of missed that " except for the nukes" part Edit: also, it's not like it wouldn't be expensive, not to mention the economic realities of the European energy situation which is Russia's only real strength. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Nov 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 04:01
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:You must of missed that " except for the nukes" part As well as the fact the west doesn't give a poo poo about Ukraine.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 04:07
|
|
|
Aliquid posted:As well as the fact the west doesn't give a poo poo about Ukraine. We give a poo poo about Russia being in a position to undermine US interests in central and eastern europe. We don't give a poo poo about giving Ukraine money without getting a return--it'd be throwing cash down a well of mafia dons who are unashambed of operating openly. We're willing to assist Ukraine with some elements to gently caress over the Russians, as long as they understand what that imlies and the full consequences of accepting an American bailout.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 04:10
|
|
|
Brown Moses posted:Just published on Bellingcat Origin of the Separatists’ Buk: A Bellingcat Investigation, also available as a PDF. shots fired
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 04:17
|
|
|
Dusty Baker 2 posted:shots fired Hopefully not at BM.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 04:20
|
|
|
El Scotch posted:Hopefully not at BM. Don't be silly, what do you think they make radioactive umbrellas for?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 04:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 23:17 |
|
|
Niedar posted:Im hearing lots of talk about how Russia is not a threat yet they are doing something we don't want them to do and we haven't done anything to stop them. Oh right, because they are a threat and not a bug to be squashed. The assessment here is largely military and inasmuch as that's the case then everyone is correct, UNLESS Russia starts throwing nukes around, their conventional forces are no match for America/NATO. Once nukes come into the picture, of course, all bets are off. The problem is that there are other concerns, especially coming into winter, with Russia's supply of energy to Europe at large. It's a *very* weird situation because Europe can't afford to just completely cut off all economic ties to Russia, but at the same point Russia can't afford to stop selling gas to Europe. So while the West is largely concerned and in disagreement with Russia's actions in Ukraine, it's not worth it to them to escalate this to a proper war while things like the sanctions are working(albeit slowly). Putin can't keep this war up forever, he's going to need some alleviation from those sanctions within the next 12-24 months.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2014 04:24
|
|
