UKMT: November

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT: November

chippocrates: Feb 20, 2013

Angepain posted:

Empire biscuits are pretty nice, though I imagine without the empire we'd still have them and just call them something else. Probably not worth all the murder.

We've always called them double biscuits.

The main positive of the British Empire was that it wasn't the Belgian Congo.

# ? Nov 9, 2014 23:01

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 20:14

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Bozza posted:

There is absolutely no legal requirement from the EU on privatisation of railways, it simply requires a separation of accounts between infrastructure and operations so there can be fair international access.

The "EU wants privatisation rail services" was an excuse and is a load of old bollocks.

The British Empire was Bad.

I think I'd confused it with issues with leaked segment of ttip. Either way, there's enough sourced evil for me to quote than trying to rely on memory.

# ? Nov 9, 2014 23:02

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

mfcrocker posted:

This somehow balances out the mass murders etc?

I'm pretty sure 'job creation trumps all' is :thejoke:

# ? Nov 9, 2014 23:03

Stottie Kyek: Apr 26, 2008; fuckin egg in a bun

Angepain posted:

Empire biscuits are pretty nice, though I imagine without the empire we'd still have them and just call them something else. Probably not worth all the murder.

But gypsy creams are even tastier, and there's still a lot of racism against Roma and traveller communities.

# ? Nov 9, 2014 23:16

Lord Ludikrous: Jun 7, 2008; Enjoy your tea...

Gonzo McFee posted:

The Legion used Green Fields of France for one of their videos and cut the verses that explicitly state that WW1 was a pointless waste. They also sell "Future Soldier" T-Shirts and there's a lot of people talking about how soldiers fought for our freedoms with no mention of what freedoms were actually fought for in WW1.

Every year it's like there's an effort to change the narative around WW1 from a pointless waste to the noble and moral defence of the British Empire that totally wasn't evil you guys.

Bit late, but its worth mentioning that RBL doesn't actually sell a "Future Soldier" shirt, that was one of several shirts made by fundraisers to wear.

https://twitter.com/PoppyLegion/status/396308596461273088

Doesn't make it any less disturbing mind. Not that the glamourisation of war is anything new mind, back then it was for king and country, now its Call of Duty.

# ? Nov 9, 2014 23:25

Shelf Adventure: Jul 18, 2006; I'm down with that brother

I like nice biscuits because they are nice. It even says so on the biscuit (unless you start eating it then it falsely claims to be ice.)

# ? Nov 9, 2014 23:27

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

I thought this sealed the debate for the foreseeable future.

http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=284754252

# ? Nov 9, 2014 23:34

Renaissance Robot: Oct 10, 2010; Bite my furry metal ass

Guavanaut posted:

I thought this sealed the debate for the foreseeable future.

http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=284754252

Y-you can buy that stuff in jars? :magical:

# ? Nov 9, 2014 23:46

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Ludicro posted:

Bit late, but its worth mentioning that RBL doesn't actually sell a "Future Soldier" shirt, that was one of several shirts made by fundraisers to wear.

https://twitter.com/PoppyLegion/status/396308596461273088

Doesn't make it any less disturbing mind. Not that the glamourisation of war is anything new mind, back then it was for king and country, now its Call of Duty.

That's more directly true than you might think.

# ? Nov 9, 2014 23:50

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Gonzo McFee posted:

Almost four million Indians starved to death in 1944 alone because Churchill genuinely hated Indians. When asked to stop he asked if Gandhi was dead yet.

http://www.tehelka.com/remembering-indias-forgotten-holocaust/

The relatively well-referenced wikipedia article is a lot more nuanced than your link. There's way too much to quote the whole thing, but some selected quotes covering the natural causes of the famine, along with the loss of grain from Burma following the Japanese invasion and the internal Indian political difficulties in distribution are covered below. It is argued that overseas food would not have saved the majority of deaths in any case, as all the Eastern ports were under Japanese air cover at that point and the railways were both full to capacity supplying the Burma front and US/Chinese forces, while also subject to flooding and sabotage.

It also records that hundreds of thousands of tons of food were sent to the affected areas. It sounds like a godawful administrative nightmare occuring with incomplete information in the middle of a global struggle for survival. I'm not sure anyone without a crystal ball would have come out of it smelling of roses and, however terrible Churchill's casual racism may be, if there are two famines going on and only enough food for one, then hard choices have to be made. Presumably Churchill had an eye on the invasion of Greece that was just around the corner and the possibility of the civilian population assisting the Allies.

quote:

The proximate cause of the famine was a reduction in supply with some increase in demand. The winter 1942 �aman� rice crop which was already expected to be poor or indifferent[13] was hit by a cyclone and three tidal waves in October. 450 square miles were swept by tidal waves, 400 square miles affected by floods and 3200 square miles damaged by wind and torrential rain. Reserve stocks in the hands of cultivators, consumers and dealers were destroyed. This killed 14,500 people and 190,000 cattle.[14] �The homes, livelihood and property of nearly 2.5 million Bengalis were ruined or damaged.�[15] A fungus causing the disease known as "brown spot", hit the rice crop and this was reported to have had an even greater effect on yield than the cyclone.[16] The fungus, Helminthosporium oryzae, destroyed 50% to 90% of some rice varieties.[17]

It was argued that the normal carry over stocks did not exist in Bengal because 1941 was a short year and people started eating the December 1941 crop as soon as it was harvested (as they certainly did when the December 1943 crop was harvested). As a result, the good December 1941 crop did not mean the normal surplus stocks were carried over into 1943. In other years and in other provinces there had been several good or average crops between bad years and stocks had built up.[18]

Bengal had been a food importer for the last decade. Calcutta was normally supplied by Burma. The British Empire had suffered a disastrous defeat at Singapore in 1942 against the Japanese military, which then proceeded to invade Burma in the same year. Burma was the world's largest exporter of rice in the inter-war period.[19] By 1940 15% of India's rice overall came from Burma, while in Bengal the proportion was slightly higher given the province's proximity to Burma.[20] After the Japanese occupation of Burma in March 1942, Bengal and the other parts of India and Ceylon normally supplied by Burma had to find food elsewhere. However, there were poor crops and famine situations in Cochin, Trivandrum and Bombay on the West coast and Madras, Orissa and Bengal in the East. It fell on the few surplus Provinces, mainly the Punjab, to supply the rest of India and Ceylon.[21]

India as a whole had a deficit, but still exported small quantities to meet the urgent needs of the British-Indian Army abroad, and those of Ceylon.[citation needed]

Bengal�s food needs rose at the same time from the influx of refugees from Burma. The enormous expansion of the Indian Army probably did not increase total food demand in India, but it did mean significantly more local demand in Bengal (up to 200,000 tons grain imported,[22] as well as an unknown quantity of grain and a lot of fresh food bought in Bengal). However, the effects of army consumption in causing the famine was clearly limited, as 'the army, mainly wheat-eaters, consumed very little extra in relation to India�s supplies, and the army in Bengal was supplied externally'[23]

quote:

The politicians and civil servants of surplus provinces like the Punjab introduced regulations to prevent grain leaving their provinces for the famine areas of Bengal, Madras and Cochin. There was the desire to see that, first, local populations and, second, the populations of neighbouring provinces were well fed, partly to prevent civil unrest. Politicians and officials got power and patronage, and the ability to extract bribes for shipping permits. Marketing and transaction costs rose sharply. The market could not get grain to Bengal, however profitable it might be. The main trading route, established for hundreds of years was up the river system and this ceased to operate, leaving the railway as the only way of getting food into Bengal. Grain arrivals stopped and in March 1943, Calcutta, the second biggest city in the world, had only two weeks food supply in stock.[41]

The Government of India realized a mistake had been made and decreed a return to free trade. The Provinces refused �In this, again, the Government of India misjudged both its own influence and the temper of its constituents, which had by this time gone too far to pay much heed to the Centre.�[42] The Government of India Act 1935 had removed most of the Government of India�s authority over the Provinces, so they had to rely on negotiation.

Thus, even when the Government of India decreed that there should be free trade in grain, politicians, civil servants, local government officers and police obstructed the movement of grain to famine areas.[43] In some cases Provinces seized grain in transit from other Provinces to Bengal.[44] �But men like Bhai Permanand say that though many traders want to export food [to Bengal] the Punjab Government would not give them permits. He testified to large quantities of undisposed-of rice being in the Punjab�[45]

Eventually there was a clear threat by the Government of India to force the elected governments to provide grain, when the new Viceroy, Wavell, who was a successful general, was about to take office. For the first time substantial quantities of grain started to move to Bengal.[46]

quote:

Any imports would have had to come from Australia, North America or South America. Some supplies from Australia entered the region. [63] The main constraint was shipping. The Battle of the Atlantic was at its peak from mid-1942 to mid-1943, with submarine wolf packs sinking so many ships that the Allies were on the verge of defeat, so shipping could not be spared for India.[64]

By August 1943 Churchill refused to release shipping to send food to India.[65][66][67] Initially during the famine he was more concerned with the civilians of Nazi occupied Greece (who were also suffering from a famine) compared with the Bengalis,[68] noting that the �starvation of anyhow underfed Bengalis is less serious than that of sturdy Greeks�.[69]

Any aid from abroad would have arrived too late to prevent most deaths: apart from the usual delays in assembling and shipping, and the long shipping route, it would have had to be delivered at west coast ports � the Allied navies did not operate east of Ceylon, and the Bay of Bengal was covered by Japanese naval and air power. The railways were overstretched, with men and equipment sent to war zones, most of the capacity devoted to supplying the Burma front and US and Chinese forces,[70] sabotage by Congress, major flood damage to the main routes etc. And they were not geared to shipping large quantities of bulk goods. Distributing the food to the famine areas was extremely difficult and time-consuming, even with Army help.

quote:

During the course of the famine, 264 thousand tons of rice, 258 thousand tons of wheat and wheat products, and 55 thousand tons of millet were sent to Bengal from the rest of India and overseas in order to relieve the famine.[79] One ton feeds 5.75 people for a year at normal consumption, perhaps 8.2 at emergency survival rates.[80] Various guesses were that the rice production in Bengal was 1.2 - 2.5 million tons below the ten-year average.

Prince John fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Nov 9, 2014

# ? Nov 9, 2014 23:54

Renaissance Robot: Oct 10, 2010; Bite my furry metal ass

I wouldn't blame anyone for not watching the Sunday Politics, but today's had this pretty fun graphic of Gideon looking like somebody's set his shoes on fire:

(relevant re. timebomb discussion last page, they were talking about how the money he's supposedly shaved off the EU debt comes at the cost of abrogating our rebate in 2016)

# ? Nov 9, 2014 23:59

Breath Ray: Nov 19, 2010

Prince John posted:

The relatively well-referenced wikipedia article is a lot more nuanced than your link. There's way too much to quote the whole thing, but some selected quotes covering the natural causes of the famine, along with the loss of grain from Burma following the Japanese invasion and the internal Indian political difficulties in distribution are covered below. It is argued that overseas food would not have saved the majority of deaths in any case, as all the Eastern ports were under Japanese air cover at that point and the railways were both full to capacity supplying the Burma front and US/Chinese forces, while also subject to flooding and sabotage.

It also records that hundreds of thousands of tons of food were sent to the affected areas. It sounds like a godawful administrative nightmare occuring with incomplete information in the middle of a global struggle for survival. I'm not sure anyone without a crystal ball would have come out of it smelling of roses and, however terrible Churchill's casual racism may be, if there are two famines going on and only enough food for one, then hard choices have to be made. Presumably Churchill had an eye on the invasion of Greece that was just around the corner and the possibility of the civilian population assisting the Allies.

I also thought the links given before were suboptimal. It's good of you to overturn them with this well-chosen material.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 00:08

Lord Twisted: Apr 3, 2010; In the Emperor's name, let none survive.

Parliament could pass a law basically taking an industry, but that's a great way to completely gently caress all foreign investment in the country, as no one wants to risk all their assets with a capricious administration - see Russia.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 00:15

Wolfsbane: Jul 29, 2009; What time is it, Eccles?

Burqa King posted:

I reckon it was a force for good with some regrettable excesses that it would be a mistake to judge from a nowadays perspective.

Well thanks for letting us know what you reckon, lazy one-line shitposter. I'm sure we all feel better informed now.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 00:19

Shelf Adventure: Jul 18, 2006; I'm down with that brother

Guavanaut posted:

I thought this sealed the debate for the foreseeable future.

http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=284754252

I'm going to buy this and spread it on a bourbon.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 00:22

Lord Ludikrous: Jun 7, 2008; Enjoy your tea...

Darth Walrus posted:

That's more directly true than you might think.

Christ, if I didn't loathe that franchise before I certainly would now.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 00:23

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Aromatic Stretch posted:

Voting no as British Imperialism in India has directly led to the creation of jobs in Solihull

It also led to jobs in India, specifically those loving bastard scammers who call several times a day to just ask a few questions about reports from my computer that was involved in a car accident. I mean, not that those scum are so vexatious that I'd wish starvation and penury on millions of their countrymen to shut them up, but when we bestowed the benefits of civilisation upon the subcontinent we really should have thought twice before including the telephone.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 00:25

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Burqa King posted:

I also thought the links given before were suboptimal. It's good of you to overturn them with this well-chosen material.

These guys really aren't ready for you. They spent years getting trolled by a psychotic Australian and never truly understood what was going on.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 00:45

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Gonzo McFee posted:

Nostalgia, terrible living conditions and a upper class that received British educations.

It turns out that stability and order are something quite a few people value over chaos and upheaval.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 00:50

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

IMO the empire gave us the gin and tonic, so that makes it a net plus.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 00:53

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

Angepain posted:

Empire biscuits are pretty nice, though I imagine without the empire we'd still have them and just call them something else. Probably not worth all the murder.

Linzer biscuit or Deutsch biscuit.
The familiar name was adopted the same time & reason the royal family changed theirs, so I guess we're lucky they're not Windsor biscuits.
Remember that the next time someone takes the piss out of yanks for "freedom fries".

# ? Nov 10, 2014 00:57

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Cerv posted:

Linzer biscuit or Deutsch biscuit.

These appear to be fancy jammy dodgers and a totally different biscuit?

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:00

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Pissflaps posted:

These appear to be fancy jammy dodgers and a totally different biscuit?

Those are proper posh ones, but pretty much anything with two shortbread and some jam is a linzertorte derivative. My family call them German biscuits.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:03

Fluo: May 25, 2007

Spangly A posted:

Those are proper posh ones, but pretty much anything with two shortbread and some jam is a linzertorte derivative. My family call them German biscuits.

Don't people normally call them jammy dodgers?

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:04

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Imagine how difficult making food is in a world without trademarks, you'd have to taste things and not have the guardian tell you what you're eating this year.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:07

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Spangly A posted:

Those are proper posh ones, but pretty much anything with two shortbread and some jam is a linzertorte derivative. My family call them German biscuits.

You call jammy dodgers 'german biscuits'?

I've never heard of this before is it a middle class thing?

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:07

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

we called empire biscuits german biscuits, not seen them look like jammy dodgers before but it's all linzertorte, friend

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:08

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Spangly A posted:

we called empire biscuits german biscuits, not seen them look like jammy dodgers before but it's all linzertorte, friend

I'm google image searching them and they all look like jammy dodgers?

tbf I don't think i've ever had an 'empire biscuit' either. Not sure if this is a class or geography thing though.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:10

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

Jedit posted:

It also led to jobs in India, specifically those loving bastard scammers who call several times a day to just ask a few questions about reports from my computer that was involved in a car accident. I mean, not that those scum are so vexatious that I'd wish starvation and penury on millions of their countrymen to shut them up, but when we bestowed the benefits of civilisation upon the subcontinent we really should have thought twice before including the telephone.

- Winston Churchill

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:18

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Pissflaps posted:

I'm google image searching them and they all look like jammy dodgers?

tbf I don't think i've ever had an 'empire biscuit' either. Not sure if this is a class or geography thing though.

Yeah those are all jammy dodgers. I wonder if a jammy dodger is a german biscuit? For sure, we've got a mystery here.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:23

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

Spangly A posted:

Yeah those are all jammy dodgers. I wonder if a jammy dodger is a german biscuit? For sure, we've got a mystery here.

Wikiedia 'Jammie Dodgers' posted:

Jammie Dodgers
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Jammie Dodger

A pack of Jammie Dodgers Original (2006)
Jammie Dodgers are a popular British biscuit, made from shortbread with a raspberry flavoured jam filling. They are currently produced by Burton's Biscuit Company at its factory in Llantarnam. In 2009, Jammie Dodgers were the most popular children's sweet biscuit brand in the United Kingdom, with 40% of the years' sales consumed by adults.[1]

Wikiedia 'Jammie Dodgers' posted:

History[edit]
Named after Roger the Dodger from The Beano comics,[2] Jammie Dodgers have been produced for over 50 years.[2] In 2011, the brand was re-launched under the "Dodgers" umbrella with two new products: Toffee and Choccie.

In November 2013, it was reported that Burton's Foods, the company that makes Jammie Dodgers and Wagon Wheels, had been sold to Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan for �350m.[3]

A version of this biscuit is made in France under the name "Gateaux Sables Nappage Fraise" by Pat'Boul de Provence. This version is bigger (100mm Diameter) and has three round holes through which strawberry jam is visible.

Emphasis mine. Thoughts?

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:26

Spangly A: May 14, 2009; God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

Our jammy dodgers paying for FOREIGN teachers? vote ukip

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:34

sebzilla: Mar 17, 2009; Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.

brb, invading France to bring back Le Grand Dodger

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:37

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

I think we can all agree that 'Gateaux Sables Nappage Fraise' is an absurd name for any snack shortcake or biscuit.

I'm fine with renaming Jammie Dodgers back to Kaiserliche keks or whatever as long as France has to call theirs something that isn't four words long.

^^^ Grand Dodger would be a good substitute.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 01:59

IceAgeComing: Jan 29, 2013; pretty fucking embarrassing to watch

Tower Hamlets update: turns out that Mr Rahmann more than likely committed proper serious electoral fraud including changing Labour votes to votes for him and including other candidates votes in his bundles to make sure that they added up to the right number. Its a bit discouraging that something that blatant can happen in an election in the United Kingdom...

(its the torygraph I know, but it sort of fits with what every other source is saying about his election and it would surprise me more if the thing wasn't rigged tbh)

e: hahaha Rahmann accuses the government lawyer of "witness intimidation" even though he was in Birmingham at the time, while at the same time Rahmann's supporters are going round having "little chats" to large numbers of the prosecution witnesses...

IceAgeComing fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Nov 10, 2014

# ? Nov 10, 2014 02:57

ronya: Nov 8, 2010; I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

he's going down, but nobody will ever convince the Bengali community that he was fairly taken down

# ? Nov 10, 2014 09:22

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

We've got a problem, and the only solution is more cuts!

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/5426fc12-6346-11e4-8a63-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3Ie77XVzT

quote:

George Osborne must cut deeper into the budgets of the army, police and courts as the annual savings needed to meet his austerity targets are set almost to double to �48bn, Financial Times analysis shows.
As Britain hits the midway mark of its decade of planned austerity, the findings suggest that far from the cuts becoming lighter after 2015 � as the chancellor and prime minister David Cameron have suggested � they are poised to become much harsher for departments outside the protected areas of health, schools and overseas aid.
The findings will come as a blow to the Conservative party which, only six months away from a general election, is seeking to attract voters with talk of more tax cuts.
Many experts, including the International Monetary Fund, say taxes will have to rise in the next parliament or more money will have to be borrowed to prevent a serious hit on many public services.
Mr Cameron wrote last month that most of the cuts in the austerity programme had been achieved, with only �25bn a year still to be removed from budgets.
But the FT�s analysis has found that less than half the reductions have been made. The analysis is based on the Office for Budget Responsibility�s Budget figures from March, which outline the government�s spending plans until 2018-19.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 09:55

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

"Only 25 billion to be removed from the budget" ... Of course, why not, I mean I'm sure there's more people you can throw on the street or have ATOS screw over on your behalf.

Did anyone watch the 'Police under Pressure' doc on BBC2 yesterday? It was about child sexual abuse in Rotherham, made before the real shitstorm hit, and already you could see that the department was struggling to pursue these and other major cases due to budget constraints. But cut away.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 10:06

Breath Ray: Nov 19, 2010

Good to see cooler heads have prevailed and ACAB has been overturned. I say we give the buggers a raise.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 10:41

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 20:14

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

ronya posted:

he's going down, but nobody will ever convince the Bengali community that he was fairly taken down

Well, half of them anyway, the other half would have been happy if the EDL had stormed in and packed him off to a camp on the Isle of Man. Local politics is some vicious poo poo no matter who's involved.

# ? Nov 10, 2014 10:47

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT: November

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