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I imagine that a Paizo 4e would just be Pathfinder with clean formatting. That would somehow still manage to piss off grogs because legibility = dumbed-down baby MMO boardgame.
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Nov 10, 2014 08:36
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Im going to be playing 5e for the first time this weekend and i am thinking about going cleric. Anybody got any tips or are there anything i need to think about? (Only played a little bit of 4E before.)
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Nov 10, 2014 09:40
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Shadiiw posted:Im going to be playing 5e for the first time this weekend and i am thinking about going cleric. Anybody got any tips or are there anything i need to think about? Tempest Clerics are loving badass, Nature and War Clerics are actually stronk melee combatants as well as spellcasters, Light Clerics are really difficult to kill thanks to Warding Flare and get some blastiness from their domain spell list (Burning Hands, Fireball etc) and Healing Clerics do exactly what they say on the tin. I'd strongly recommend a Hill Dwarf, because you definitely want the Wisdom from your race and Hill Dwarves make you tough as gently caress and give you warhammer proficiency. Human is a good choice, too, I suspect. Have fun lording it over Wizards and Sorcerers and other spellcasters who don't get literally their entire list to choose from each day. Shillelagh is the best cantrip for hitting people.
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Nov 10, 2014 12:00
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Doodmons posted:Tempest Clerics are loving badass, Nature and War Clerics are actually stronk melee combatants as well as spellcasters, Light Clerics are really difficult to kill thanks to Warding Flare and get some blastiness from their domain spell list (Burning Hands, Fireball etc) and Healing Clerics do exactly what they say on the tin. I'd strongly recommend a Hill Dwarf, because you definitely want the Wisdom from your race and Hill Dwarves make you tough as gently caress and give you warhammer proficiency. Human is a good choice, too, I suspect. Have fun lording it over Wizards and Sorcerers and other spellcasters who don't get literally their entire list to choose from each day. Shillelagh is the best cantrip for hitting people. Sounds good! If i go Life to get some healing how is my damage going to be? Or if i go some other line will i still be able to at least some decent healing? I am more than likely going to be the healer of the group but it would be nice to be able to do damage to.
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Nov 10, 2014 12:57
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Life, Nature and War Clerics all have proficiency in Heavy Armor and have "Divine Strike" to make their attacks deal an additional 1d8/2d8 damage. War Clerics also have proficiency in Martial Weapons; the "War Priest" ability to let them attack twice per round, usable as many times as their WIS modifier, per long rest; and finally Guided Strike to let them use Channel Divinity to add +10 to their attack rolls. I can't speak for how their Domain spells* play into this, but otherwise a Life Cleric should probably still be able to dish out some decent damage. * On an unrelated note, someone made a complete list of 5E spells per level and it's something like 45 pages long for the Clerics and 66 pages long for the Wizards, even in 9 pt font
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Nov 10, 2014 13:15
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Cassa posted:Adventurers league remains terrible, it's not that the modules are railroads, to be expected with the format, it's that there's no chance for the players to have any effect. In fact in one of the new ones, it's almost not worth the adventurers leaving their house, they have so little effect on what's going on. It's more likely they'll gently caress everything up through no fault of their own. Also, I just played... I think the Fire one, I can't remember, and I can't believe they included the oozes that destroy weapons/armor. Three of them, no less. And then there's no rules in the DM guide or whatever for having stuff repaired. Good thing my AL DM just ruled it that we could pay 20 gold to have it fixed, but still.
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Nov 10, 2014 16:04
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I'm suspecting Paizo 4e would immediately shitcan useful Fighters and Warlords because 
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Nov 10, 2014 16:47
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You know if they actually design some cool adventures for 4e I'd be all over it. But I don't think that's gonna happen.
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Nov 10, 2014 19:15
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The cleric has a lot of options. You could make a human with the Healer feat and lean on that for party support, using your spell slots for offense along with tempest or light domain.
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Nov 10, 2014 19:16
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My group has just started playing 5e/Next and we're currently playing the Starter Set adventure (Lost mine of Phandelver). So far it's been a fun ride and we've tried encounters using both theater of the mind and using a gridmap. I do however have a quick question regarding the premade halfling Rogue in the adventure. He has begun using a sort of peek-a-boo fighting style by hiding behind an ally and shooting arrows at the enemy. This is totally fine according to a interpretation of the rules I could find (plus it's hilarious), but what I'm not sure about is how this impacts his aiming. From what I can gather, if an ally is in front of the enemy you attempt to target (i.e the fighter is standing in front of the target "blocking" the rogues aim) the creature gets +2 to his defenses since the ally counts as cover. What I am not sure about is: Does a creature get a +2 bonus if the rogue attempts to shoot "through" the wizard he's hiding behind?
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Nov 10, 2014 20:14
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Your own allies have never counted as cover for enemies as long as I've been playing D&D. I'm not sure if that's still true in Next, though.
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Nov 10, 2014 20:15
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Esser-Z posted:Your own allies have never counted as cover for enemies as long as I've been playing D&D. I'm not sure if that's still true in Next, though. DM's choice.
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Nov 10, 2014 20:56
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ritorix posted:The cleric has a lot of options. You could make a human with the Healer feat and lean on that for party support, using your spell slots for offense along with tempest or light domain. Early on it feels like any class that can hit AC 18 and cast spells is much better off than anybody else.
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Nov 10, 2014 21:08
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We play allies providing cover to enemies as "If the enemy is conceivably intelligent enough to keep his opponent between himself and the guy with the giant crossbow, they get the bonus." If its just a pack of wolves or unintelligent undead, no.
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Nov 11, 2014 06:34
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If you are just looking for a RAW answer, yes allies provide cover. It's explicit, "whether that creature is an enemy or a friend". It was the same in 3.5 (and PF), RAW any creature provided cover. In 4e, only enemies provided cover, you could shoot through allies without penalty.
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Nov 11, 2014 06:51
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Power Player posted:Which one? Tales Trees Tell One of the others has multiple Spectres/Shades. Whichever one it is that does d4 damage to your strength score on a hit. For a party of between 1 and 4.
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Nov 11, 2014 08:06
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Thanks for all the answers! I think i will go life cleric as a hill dwarf, better to be on the safe side the first time.
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Nov 11, 2014 08:43
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Anyone tried out Rise of Tiamat? Kind of surprised at the silence since Hoard of the Dairy Queen got a mixed to positive reception.
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Nov 11, 2014 09:23
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Cassa posted:Tales Trees Tell
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Nov 11, 2014 15:38
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Hey guys, I'm working on running my first campaign — it's a shorter more humorous one for my group to play while our main DM plans some stuff out, because with a little creativity and a lot of luck we ran through what he had for us quicker than he anticipated. I wanted to get some goons' opinions on stuff as there doesn't seem to be a uniform solution in any of the game materials I have and some friends of mine are of mixed opinions. If you destroy a lich's phylactery, does the lich die or become weakened, or does it simply just remove their respawn ability? Also my intention is to have it be an item that would normally be pretty easy to destroy (and they'll actually likely come upon the wizard in his final stages of attaining lichdom so it will probably all he moot anyway). Since the item would become magical, would destroying it be any more difficult than it would have been before it became a phylactery?
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Nov 11, 2014 18:10
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My interpretation of the MM's description of a Lich: Destroying the Lich's phylactery does not kill it, but it does prevent them from respawning DM's choice if destroying the phylactery causes the Lich to immediately weaken The Lich will eventually weaken into a Demilich if the phylactery is destroyed The Lich simply not feeding more souls/creatures into the phylactery for whatever reason will also turn it into a Demilich. If the phylactery is not destroyed then the Demilich will still respawn from the phylactery. The Demilich can become a Lich again once it finally feeds a new creature/soul into the phylactery Destroying the phylactery will definitely require additional effort beyond what would be necessary for the same item if it wasn't a phylactery: "Destroying a lich's phylactery is no easy task and often requires a special ritual, item, or weapon. Every phylactery is unique, and discovering the key to its destruction can be a quest in and of itself." The transformation into a Lich requires drinking a potion of transformation, and catching the Wizard at the moment of imbibing can be a climactic "cutscene" if you plan to have the party catch him just as he turns into a Lich
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Nov 11, 2014 18:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:
Thanks! This particularly is helpful. I was going to give them every chance they have of stopping the transformation realistically, since they'll be about level 4 or 5 by the time they get there and a lich would probably roll them pretty hard unless they come up with a crazy creative solution, (which our party is known for, but my character is the one who comes up with them 90 percent of the time and he won't be involved on this quest.) The potion should inadvertently work well for the bullshit lich transformation process I was making up anyway.
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Nov 11, 2014 18:56
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In other news, WOTC continues the DMG previews with random NPC generation tables and a page of the section on creating homebrewed races:   Bluedeanie posted:Thanks! This particularly is helpful. I was going to give them every chance they have of stopping the transformation realistically, since they'll be about level 4 or 5 by the time they get there and a lich would probably roll them pretty hard unless they come up with a crazy creative solution, (which our party is known for, but my character is the one who comes up with them 90 percent of the time and he won't be involved on this quest.) You're welcome! Keep in mind that a Lich in the MM is CR 21, and even a Demilich is CR 18, so you either have to plan to never actually allow your players to enter combat with the Lich, or you have to create/stat-up your own Lich monster. Also, don't let me/the MM curb your creativity, the description I gave is just what the MM says, but you are of course more than free to create your own version of a Lich's mechanics.
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Nov 11, 2014 19:08
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It's a little confusing because the 3E demilich was by far the more powerful of the two.
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Nov 11, 2014 19:41
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:It's a little confusing because the 3E demilich was by far the more powerful of the two. Yeah, we just fought one in 4e Scales of War and I was surprised that a demilich was a level 20 encounter.
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Nov 11, 2014 20:28
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:It's a little confusing because the 3E demilich was by far the more powerful of the two. Admittedly the word 'demilich' sounds like it should be a shittier version of a lich. I was always confused that demilich meant 'older, badder, more dangerous lich'
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Nov 11, 2014 20:29
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I think that one isn't necessarily stronger than the other (setting aside the explicit CR rating), just that they're stronger in different ways. The Demilich has less HP, but has higher AC, can fly, has a lot more resistances and immunities and has Avoidance, and generally is fought more like a ghost, since it is in fact just a skull of what used to be a Lich that now no longer has a corporeal form. The Lich, on the other hand, is a full fledged caster that'll shoot you with Power Word Kill and Finger of Death, but it's medium sized, has "only" 17 AC, has fewer resistances, isn't completely immune to Turn Undead the way the Demilich is (rather, has Advantage on saving against it) and is generally something with more "meat" to it.
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Nov 11, 2014 20:46
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In the AD&D MM Demiliches were explicitly called out as 'more powerful' in the sense that they were the remains of an extremely powerful lich who had decided to take off on an astral journey to explore the multiverse. They are 'demi' in the sense that the lich isn't really 'there' any more - he's out on business and left his bones behind. Because it's DnD, the remains of an extremely powerful caster is itself very powerful.
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Nov 11, 2014 21:17
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So there's another DMG preview about custom races/subraces! Sounds awesome I bet this is gonna be full of detailed... wait what just steal traits from other races and guesstimate it? Why is this book worth money, exactly? edit: Late to the party, but goddamn these 'rules' Darwinism fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 22:18
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Darwinism posted:So there's another DMG preview about custom races/subraces! Sounds awesome I bet this is gonna be full of detailed... wait what just steal traits from other races and guesstimate it? Why is this book worth money, exactly? Why not just put a quarter-page sidebar on custom races in the PHB if that's all it is? Is there some reason why this material shouldn't be player-accessible? Like, I'd think that a player is just as likely to want to come up with a cool race to play as a DM is. Why would a DM even bother coming up with rules for a playable race unless there was a player who wanted to play it? And if you've got a player who wants to play it, why don't they get first crack at picking some abilities? This whole PHB/DMG thing is crazy to me. One big book is obviously better. Monster manual, sure. I can see having a big book of monsters with adventure hooks - there's demand for that. I wouldn't buy it, but I would totally buy it if it came with a few fold-out maps, sets of pre-made encounters and some monster tokens. Save me a few minutes of monster-building - alright, cool. Give me cool play aids and save me map-drawing and encounter-building time on top of all that? I'm in, baby.
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Nov 11, 2014 23:15
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gradenko_2000 posted:I think that one isn't necessarily stronger than the other (setting aside the explicit CR rating), just that they're stronger in different ways. The Demilich has less HP, but has higher AC, can fly, has a lot more resistances and immunities and has Avoidance, and generally is fought more like a ghost, since it is in fact just a skull of what used to be a Lich that now no longer has a corporeal form. The weaker Demilich here is a Lich that did not keep active and eaten souls and decayed as a result. The Demilich that is on par or stronger then the lich (CR 21/23 in lair.) is the version that abandoned his body.
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Nov 12, 2014 00:37
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It's pretty funny how totally wrong they got the Demilich and here nobody's up in arms about how this slap in the face to D&D players is pissing on Gygax's corpse as it rapes their childhoods.
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Nov 12, 2014 00:53
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Demilich is obviously just a halfling lich. Or maybe it's a baelnorn.
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Nov 12, 2014 00:59
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moths posted:It's pretty funny how totally wrong they got the Demilich and here nobody's up in arms about how this slap in the face to D&D players is pissing on Gygax's corpse as it rapes their childhoods.
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Nov 12, 2014 01:01
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moths posted:It's pretty funny how totally wrong they got the Demilich and here nobody's up in arms about how this slap in the face to D&D players is pissing on Gygax's corpse as it rapes their childhoods. I think you'll find that the DM may of course alter the demilich's abilities and statistics as he sees fit in order to best fit his milieu, as is right and proper, although he must take care not to make the encounter with the monster too easy or too difficult when he makes said alterations. 
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Nov 12, 2014 01:08
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moths posted:It's pretty funny how totally wrong they got the Demilich and here nobody's up in arms about how this slap in the face to D&D players is pissing on Gygax's corpse as it rapes their childhoods. Its probably because they never encountered one. How many campaigns honestly make it to a level where a 20 cr monster would show up?
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Nov 12, 2014 02:43
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To be fair, the 3E-era demilich appeared in the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook, a book which boiled down to 300 pages of purely conjectural scenarios involving monsters with 100 attacks per round, dungeons made out of adamantine just so a wizard wouldn't immediately disintegrate them, and spells that dealt 350d6 damage but caused you to die and lose XP. It's understandable if your average Threeaboo forgot about a floating skull monster with diamonds for eyes between "Colossal+" dragons made of rainbow and primordial undead space babies.
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Nov 12, 2014 04:11
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:To be fair, the 3E-era demilich appeared in the 3.0 Epic Level Handbook, a book which boiled down to 300 pages of purely conjectural scenarios involving monsters with 100 attacks per round, dungeons made out of adamantine just so a wizard wouldn't immediately disintegrate them, and spells that dealt 350d6 damage but caused you to die and lose XP. It's understandable if your average Threeaboo forgot about a floating skull monster with diamonds for eyes between "Colossal+" dragons made of rainbow and primordial undead space babies. I know logically this was probably unplayable but I kinda want to play a campaign that has these things (minus the bullshit crunch/rules bit).
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Nov 12, 2014 04:21
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Rannos22 posted:I know logically this was probably unplayable but I kinda want to play a campaign that has these things (minus the bullshit crunch/rules bit). I have, twice even. It's fun in a way, but it is really silly. You have to go full crazy with it though and only take it about as seriously as an episode of DBZ or something similar. I think 4E epic worked a lot better actually because while it had some of the same insanity, the combat still more or less worked like it did at low levels just...more. Also, it is really weird that Demi-liches are weaker then liches, as Demi-Liches have always been just straight up super-mega liches since they were originally introduced, so it's weird that they'd mess that up, especially in an edition seemingly specifically made to not change that kind of stuff.
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Nov 12, 2014 06:00
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I'm just starting out and trying to figure out how my wizard works in combat and it's either vague or buried in flavour, but would a cantrip like Ray of Frost roll proficiency against the target's AC or does it automatically hit? Would a spell that the target can roll a save against, like Burning Hands, also need to pass a prof check? If Ray of Frost requires a prof check and has the chance of rolling a 1 with no modifier why not just have a light crossbow for the guaranteed damage? Google is pretty sparse on this kind of info but I'm probably phrasing it wrong.
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Nov 12, 2014 07:45
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