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To be fair, wasn't that down to an editorial mandate that Superman had to be literally the last Krptonian, hence Superboy's a clone, Supergirl's a robot/angel, and Power Girl was from Atlantis or whatever they claimed at that point?
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Nov 13, 2014 04:33
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 02:38 |
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Gaz-L posted:To be fair, wasn't that down to an editorial mandate that Superman had to be literally the last Krptonian, hence Superboy's a clone, Supergirl's a robot/angel, and Power Girl was from Atlantis or whatever they claimed at that point? My favorite Kara bit was after she came back and like six different writers had given her conflicting origin stories, right before New Krypton when her parents come back they're just like "you remembered how many contradictory versions of your past and you thought that was normal? holy geez, Kara" and then just gave her the Silver Age backstory back.
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Nov 13, 2014 04:59
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Pretty sure that was in the Amanda Conner arc with her in JSA Classified, which also gave the explanation for her Boob Window.
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Nov 13, 2014 05:58
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We're talking Supergirl not Power Girl ya dingus
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Nov 13, 2014 06:29
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Lurdiak posted:"Batman cool Superman lame PUNCH" - every hack writer until the end of time, apparently. I'm pretty sure "Batman vs. Superman fight" is on the list of "Ideas for stories every writer wants to do when they're on [specific title], and just tries to find an excuse to make happen". Other examples include, but are not limited to:
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Nov 13, 2014 07:34
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Hell, in my mind Superman's been the underdog in that fight for a very long time, just because every single writer always wants Batman to win.
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Nov 13, 2014 08:10
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MikeJF posted:Hell, in my mind Superman's been the underdog in that fight for a very long time, just because every single writer always wants Batman to win. I think he won in Red Son, of course it was a pyrrhic victory. And he was a Stalinist commie in that one.
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Nov 13, 2014 08:18
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In Hush Batman's narration points out that Supes could have taken him out at any time with super-speed or heat vision or whatever, but didn't because he was fighting the mind-control.
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Nov 13, 2014 08:19
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Skwirl posted:I think he won in Red Son, of course it was a pyrrhic victory. And he was a Stalinist commie in that one. So he was the real winner?
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Nov 13, 2014 08:27
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Cassa posted:So he was the real winner? When Batman and Superman fight, no one wins.
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Nov 13, 2014 08:30
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Skwirl posted:When Batman and Superman fight, no one wins. Incorrect. Alfred wins.  Injustice: Gods Among Us #36
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Nov 13, 2014 10:31
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MikeJF posted:Hell, in my mind Superman's been the underdog in that fight for a very long time, just because every single writer always wants Batman to win. The irony of this is completely lost on Bat-fans, sadly.
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Nov 13, 2014 11:00
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mind the walrus posted:The irony of this is completely lost on Bat-fans, sadly.
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Nov 13, 2014 11:21
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Black Dynamite #4
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Nov 13, 2014 13:50
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mind the walrus posted:I like PAD's stuff from the late 90s and early 00s and hate Jeph Loeb's bullshit, but one of the few smart things Loeb ever did was get rid of all the horseshit pretenders and just say "gently caress it here's Superman's cousin again can we move the gently caress on now?" David did that too, but they canceled it and made him cut the story short. The Kara he introduced in the last story arc was supposed to stick around, and the book would have become a Super-books version of Birds of Prey, starring Kara, Linda and Power Girl.
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Nov 13, 2014 15:52
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Senior Woodchuck posted:David did that too, but they canceled it and made him cut the story short. The Kara he introduced in the last story arc was supposed to stick around, and the book would have become a Super-books version of Birds of Prey, starring Kara, Linda and Power Girl. No love for Cir-El? 
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Nov 13, 2014 16:39
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The Question IRL posted:No love for Cir-El? NO.
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Nov 13, 2014 16:50
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The Question IRL posted:No love for Cir-El? For some reason the idea of giving Clark any form of direct progeny--even adopted--seems wrong somehow. Like he can take in as many weird-rear end clones or distant relatives as he pleases, but the instant you give him a son or a daughter not only do they automatically fail to live up to him but their time is marked as impermanent unless they're instantly classic in some way, and Cir-El was most certainly not instantly classic. Then again Damien worked out with Bruce by playing against type of all his other vigilante family members, marking him as distinct and classic in his own way, so it is theoretically possible.
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Nov 13, 2014 16:58
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MikeJF posted:Hell, in my mind Superman's been the underdog in that fight for a very long time, just because every single writer always wants Batman to win. There's no narrative tension resolved by Superman beating Batman. "Strongest character in this universe wins fight against dude with no powers" isn't interesting. Also, Superman isn't going to fight Batman unless he's mind controlled or evil for a day, and if Evil Superman wins Batman is dead.
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Nov 13, 2014 17:12
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It's almost as if Superman vs. Batman is a really dumb concept to begin with.
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Nov 13, 2014 17:15
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Hakkesshu posted:It's almost as if Superman vs. Batman is a really dumb concept to begin with. redbackground fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 17:17
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I don't know, Batman survived that one time Superman was tricked into thinking he was Doomsday or Darkseid or something (right before Wonder Woman broke Max Lord's neck).
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Nov 13, 2014 17:18
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theflyingorc posted:There's no narrative tension resolved by Superman beating Batman. "Strongest character in this universe wins fight against dude with no powers" isn't interesting. I like how this pretends that there's no scenario where Batman could need to be put down and/or Superman needs to put him in his place (and do it without hurting a man who may be ordinary but is still a real threat), yet Superman is Evil or Mind-Controlled and needs to have Batman kick some sense into him in every other alternate reality out there.
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Nov 13, 2014 17:18
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Wade Wilson posted:I don't know, Batman survived that one time Superman was tricked into thinking he was Doomsday or Darkseid or something (right before Wonder Woman broke Max Lord's neck). Didn't Superman trash him and put him in a coma?
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Nov 13, 2014 17:24
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No seriously guys this middle class farmer's son is guaranteed to go rogue and evil and needs to have his rear end whupped every second sunday until the end of time because he's got superpowers, but the rich orphan with clear mental problems who trains an army of vigilantes in his spare time could never possibly cross the line because he's just a Humble Ordinary Human with no privilege, special abilities, or potential for insular thinking.
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Nov 13, 2014 17:27
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I love Batman but loving jesus does he create blind spots in fans.
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Nov 13, 2014 17:28
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mind the walrus posted:I like how this pretends that there's no scenario where Batman could need to be put down and/or Superman needs to put him in his place (and do it without hurting a man who may be ordinary but is still a real threat), yet Superman is Evil or Mind-Controlled and needs to have Batman kick some sense into him in every other alternate reality out there. No, it's just that "Batman has turned evil, can Superman STOP HIM" isn't interesting, because of course he can. Look at the matchup on paper. The entire interesting part of the conflict is that it's incredibly one sided, but BATMAN'S INGENUITY CAN STILL WIN THE DAY. Evil Batman has to do SOMETHING to depower Superman to even start making the conflict interesting. Also Lex Luthor already serves the story purpose of "Evil Batman." Evil Batman doesn't bring anything new to the table that Superman doesn't deal with every day. Superman, however, is outside of Bats' normal wheelhouse. ^^^ Hey buddy, you might be being really stupid and putting words in my mouth right now. Hell, nobody said Superman was going to go rogue inevitably? My entire point was that Superman has to be Mind Controlled or Evil Alien Virus'd or whatever for there to even be a reason for Batman to fight him theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 17:29
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team overhead smash posted:Didn't Superman trash him and put him in a coma?
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Nov 13, 2014 17:36
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Webcomics rather than panels, but eh:
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Nov 13, 2014 17:40
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mind the walrus posted:No seriously guys this middle class farmer's son is guaranteed to go rogue and evil and needs to have his rear end whupped every second sunday until the end of time because he's got superpowers, but the rich orphan with clear mental problems who trains an army of vigilantes in his spare time could never possibly cross the line because he's just a Humble Ordinary Human with no privilege, special abilities, or potential for insular thinking. Truth-bombs up in this thread.
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Nov 13, 2014 18:07
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Next time Batman needs to fight Superman he should just do some dimensional fuckery and summon Squirrel Girl. Everything will be settled in one panel and maybe they could use the remaining pages for something more interesting.
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Nov 13, 2014 18:11
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team overhead smash posted:Webcomics rather than panels, but eh: This is such bullshit. It takes light 8 minutes and 20 seconds to reach us from the sun, so there's no way Superman could have thrown Batman into it in only 2 seconds. Immersion completely ruined.
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Nov 13, 2014 18:23
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The Midniter posted:This is such bullshit. It takes light 8 minutes and 20 seconds to reach us from the sun, so there's no way Superman could have thrown Batman into it in only 2 seconds. Immersion completely ruined. But Batman isn't made of light? 
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Nov 13, 2014 18:29
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And wasn't Babel effectively an "Evil" Batman story anyway? I mean it answers the question "What happens if Batman goes rogue and decides to take out the Justice League?" Why don't we ever see Batman going against Doomsday, one on one? Is it because old Doomie doesn't have the very specific weaknesses that Superman does, and so he can't be beaten with normal means?
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Nov 13, 2014 18:32
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redbackground posted:Now hear me out, but what about...Batman vs. Superman?!....you could make a movie out of that! If you call it 'Batman v. Superman' instead you might be on to something. It'll help to keep it from being a straight 'versus' movie, even in the most subtle way. mind the walrus posted:For some reason the idea of giving Clark any form of direct progeny--even adopted--seems wrong somehow. Like he can take in as many weird-rear end clones or distant relatives as he pleases, but the instant you give him a son or a daughter not only do they automatically fail to live up to him but their time is marked as impermanent unless they're instantly classic in some way, and Cir-El was most certainly not instantly classic. I've never heard of this character, and I was really disappointed to find that it wasn't some secret kryptonian super-accountant. Did no one notice that they called their edgy rebellious teen supergirl 'Cyril'?
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Nov 13, 2014 18:33
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I think a story about Batman going all Dr. Doom and using all his tower of babel plans to take out most superheroes without warning, leaving a kryptonite-poisoned Superman and a handful of b-listers to try and rally against his regime could be really interesting. But no it's probably better to have Batman punch Superman with Plotium for the 20th time.
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Nov 13, 2014 18:52
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Lurdiak posted:I think a story about Batman going all Dr. Doom and using all his tower of babel plans to take out most superheroes without warning, leaving a kryptonite-poisoned Superman and a handful of b-listers to try and rally against his regime could be really interesting. Even this strikes me as something that would be handled with absolutely no finesse or thoughtfulness. Most hero fights are "mistaken identity" or short "What if!?" scenarios. Having characters suddenly switch into murder-everyone mode winds up feeling really lazy. For it to really work I'd think they'd need to have the character's goal be something in-line with their principles. Ozymandias is a good example. He was trying to avert a nuclear war which would have essentially ended life as they knew it. I'm not saying it's a story without flaw, but the best we'd probably see is a "Civil War" style "morally questionable" actions which were ridiculously heavy handed. We'd either wind up with "Batman was just incapacitating everyone long enough for him to save everyone surprise he's the smartest!" or "They stopped him and undid the mind control that was causing this all along!" I'd rather just see him fight villains.
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Nov 13, 2014 19:16
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You're going to be very disappointed with Injustice 2.
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Nov 13, 2014 19:17
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poorlifedecision posted:Even this strikes me as something that would be handled with absolutely no finesse or thoughtfulness. Most hero fights are "mistaken identity" or short "What if!?" scenarios. Having characters suddenly switch into murder-everyone mode winds up feeling really lazy. For it to really work I'd think they'd need to have the character's goal be something in-line with their principles. Ozymandias is a good example. He was trying to avert a nuclear war which would have essentially ended life as they knew it. I'm not saying it's a story without flaw, but the best we'd probably see is a "Civil War" style "morally questionable" actions which were ridiculously heavy handed. Fight with some A-listers takes out part of Gotham, Batman realizes that these idiots are a threat to his GLORIOUS CITY, and as a result, all of humanity, and takes down every lovely hero and tries to put the ones worth a drat under his control so he has a leash on them to protect against actual threats but not just be tusslin' with Plasmus the Living Fart through downtown Collateralsburg. But no that'd never happen it's just gonna be PUNCH SUPERMAN WITH KRYPTONITE.
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Nov 13, 2014 19:45
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Wrong thread.
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Nov 13, 2014 19:48
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