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docbeard posted:I don't think his reaction to the Doctor (and specifically to the relationship between the Doctor and Clara) is just about OFFICER BAD SOLDIER BAD DOCTOR BAD ALL BAD BAD BAD (though you can't deny that element entirely of course, as it's all wrapped up in the Doctor's own identity crisis, and Clara's increasing taking on of the Doctor's moral code and way of doing things). It's there to show that (c) Danny almost certainly had an officer while he was a solder, someone he saw as an inspirational figure, someone who 'inspired' him to do that horrible thing and was probably quite unsympathetic about it afterwards. Unfortunately, we never actually saw (c), we had to infer it, but I think it's absolutely there to be inferred. It's the missing piece that makes everything else make sense. I absolutely agree, everything screamed that there was a missing piece where Danny is somehow failed by his commanding officer, and yet we never see it. We can infer the obvious, but without it being shown it leaves us with only the things we saw onscreen as concrete examples of why he acts/reacts the way he does, so his determination to think the absolute worst of the Doctor comes across as churlish and immature as opposed to having a strong (if misjudged) foundation.
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Nov 13, 2014 04:05
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Jerusalem posted:I absolutely agree, everything screamed that there was a missing piece where Danny is somehow failed by his commanding officer, and yet we never see it. We can infer the obvious, but without it being shown it leaves us with only the things we saw onscreen as concrete examples of why he acts/reacts the way he does, so his determination to think the absolute worst of the Doctor comes across as churlish and immature as opposed to having a strong (if misjudged) foundation. Yeah. And unfortunately, I don't even see where the opportunity to have that was. He should really have been a companion, just so he could be more present in the stories (and also because a companion who is completely skeptical about the Doctor and his methods can lead to some awesome storytelling sometimes, if the story's smart enough not to make them just look like an idiot). Come to think of it, that would have essentially just recreated the dynamic of the Eleventh Doctor, Amy, and Rory, though I'm not sure I could really complain about that.
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Nov 13, 2014 04:11
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They might have pulled it off if they'd had a single episode midway-to-late through the run where Danny ended up coming along for one of the adventures and it was Danny-centric and explored his previously-hinted-at backstory.
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Nov 13, 2014 04:24
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I actually thought this might be the case when I saw the trailer for In the Forest of the Night and thought that Danny and his class had been taken on a field trip into the future by the Doctor.
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Nov 13, 2014 04:26
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what do you think clara ended up doing with that iraqi child do you think she just put him on a plane back to iraq or something, that seems highly irresponsible
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Nov 13, 2014 04:32
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ThePutty posted:what do you think clara ended up doing with that iraqi child My question is how he has his body back? Does the cloud just make a new body for you when you escape through the bracelet portal or...
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Nov 13, 2014 04:47
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ThePutty posted:what do you think clara ended up doing with that iraqi child I thought the scene in the coffee shop was going to include Clara asking the Doctor to take the kid back to his parents.
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Nov 13, 2014 04:49
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maybe he'll become a comic relief character like urkel
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Nov 13, 2014 04:54
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ThePutty posted:maybe he'll become a comic relief character like urkel He'll learn English and become the First Gentleman of Courtney's reign as the President of America.
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Nov 13, 2014 05:15
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Hewlett posted:My question is how he has his body back? Does the cloud just make a new body for you when you escape through the bracelet portal or... Yeah, presumably. That's how the Matrix on Gallifrey (often) worked.
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Nov 13, 2014 05:29
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ThePutty posted:what do you think clara ended up doing with that iraqi child I got a better question. Where the hell did Orson Pink come from if Danny blew up?
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Nov 13, 2014 05:49
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Yeah they probably should have had Danny accompany them on at least some adventures to make the finale carry more impact. Plus I really like the multiple companions dynamic and how it helps them develop into more than just an audience stand-in. e: Clara is pregnant probably.
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Nov 13, 2014 05:53
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Hewlett posted:My question is how he has his body back? Does the cloud just make a new body for you when you escape through the bracelet portal or... The Matrix is a combination of computer and 'pocket reality'. Things within the simulation sort of have an actual physical existence, and it's actually possible to physically go in and out of the simulation. Time Lord tech. We're talking a people that discovered maths that the very act of calculating can alter reality and objects within it (part of how the TARDIS generates its interior). The Matrix presumably uses that to the nth degree in an entire computational system combined with pocket dimension designed around the concept. A computer where the calculations have reality. Doctor Who technobabble is the most insane technobabble. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 05:56
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Nov 13, 2014 06:24
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Chokes McGee posted:I got a better question. Where the hell did Orson Pink come from if Danny blew up? Companions ask this kind of question all the time,"<X> can't win and destroy the world because we've been to the future and the world is still there and <x> isn't!" but as the Doctor constantly points out, time can be rewritten and the futures they've seen aren't necessarily set in stone. It's entirely possible that Nick Frost is going to bring Danny back somehow (if he does I hope the Doctor remains completely unaware that Clara lied to him) and Orson Pink might end up happening, But if he doesn't then he'll just turn out to have been a possibility who now only exists in the Doctor's past, due to the non-linear nature of his life allowing events from a now non-existent future to have still happened in HIS past.
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Nov 13, 2014 06:29
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That or Clara is already pregnant. Who knows!
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Nov 13, 2014 06:43
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I'm 100% certain that everyone died in the last couple of episodes (if not the whole season) is going to be brought back to life in the Christmas special simply because there's not a single chance they cast Sanjeev Bhaskar in that role just for him to get about two lines and then die pointlessly.
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Nov 13, 2014 07:04
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Reading through Occupation's review thread made me realize the vague similarities Season 2's finale has with Season 8.
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Nov 13, 2014 07:21
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Irony Be My Shield posted:e: Clara is pregnant probably.  
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Nov 13, 2014 08:47
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ThePutty posted:what do you think clara ended up doing with that iraqi child I assumed she rang up Kate.
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Nov 13, 2014 08:47
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Organza Quiz posted:I'm 100% certain that everyone died in the last couple of episodes (if not the whole season) is going to be brought back to life in the Christmas special simply because there's not a single chance they cast Sanjeev Bhaskar in that role just for him to get about two lines and then die pointlessly. Cyber-Sgt. Benton saved him off camera. Cyber-Harry Sullivan got the pilot. The Doctor popped back with his Tardis to gather up all the rest as they fell.
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Nov 13, 2014 08:58
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docbeard posted:Yeah. And unfortunately, I don't even see where the opportunity to have that was. He should really have been a companion, just so he could be more present in the stories (and also because a companion who is completely skeptical about the Doctor and his methods can lead to some awesome storytelling sometimes, if the story's smart enough not to make them just look like an idiot). I've said it before, but Danny would have had so much more impact if he saw the Doctor fail, with his own eyes. He had a clear image of the Doctor, one that was ultimately right, but we never really saw much of that. We could have done that by seeing Danny's experiences with officers expanded on, but I still think my preferred pick would have been having him tag along for one of the Doctor's 'sketchier' moments, have a specific incidentto be able to point to and say 'this is who the Doctor is'. Have him see the Doctor be so willing to let people die in Time Heist, let him be witness to his abandonment during Kill the Moon, have Danny be around for the Doctor risking innocents in Mummy on the Orient Express, have Flatline occur in a way he can get involved*. Danny could have been great if he got the chance to make his point, but he just didn't get the opportunity to 'show his working', so to speak. *Don't actually have him be part of Flatline; I like Danny and I like Flatline, but they wouldn't have helped each other.
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Nov 13, 2014 09:31
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I don't think one season of Danny was ever going to work well. His relationship came so fast and such that it does not feel workable as it was written but probably would have been just fine if he'd gotten two seasons for it. Would have given him more time to actually have an adventure with the Doctor too. You can argue about the actor or the scripts or whatever but, regardless of the show's own internal timeline, 12 episodes was not enough time to go as serious as Danny and Clara were. Maybe it would have worked better with a summer break between the two halves of the season.
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Nov 13, 2014 09:45
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Organza Quiz posted:I'm 100% certain that everyone died in the last couple of episodes (if not the whole season) is going to be brought back to life in the Christmas special simply because there's not a single chance they cast Sanjeev Bhaskar in that role just for him to get about two lines and then die pointlessly. I don't know why everybody is saying that Osgood, etc are dead and gone? Were none of you paying attention to the main plotline of the last two episodes? The whole two episodes revolved around the fact that Missy created a magic machine that catches your mind and safely stores it when you die: with the option to easily download it to physical form when desired (or even for a live person to pop into the magic machine to interact with them). Nobody destroyed this machine or turned it off - so, surely that means that anyone who died still exists and is just corporally inconvenienced. That includes, Osgood, Chief Inspector Captain Scarlett, the two easily-distracted guards and Missy. Potentially even Mr Pink, if the machine works on minds that have been dumped into cyberform.
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Nov 13, 2014 10:05
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I saw this in the episode but I assumed that she'd been secretly been travelling with The Doctor and lying to Danny for three months. But... it makes sense, it could be.
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Nov 13, 2014 10:08
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spog posted:Nobody destroyed this machine or turned it off - so, surely that means that anyone who died still exists and is just corporally inconvenienced. It's very blink-and-you'll-miss-it but at the end of the episode when Danny's talking to Clara he says something to the effect of "this place is dying now." To me that implies that the whole thing is switching off or falling apart and whoever doesn't get out right then and there is going to disappear. That said, I completely agree that everyone's coming back to life again one way or another.
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Nov 13, 2014 10:31
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You know, I just rewatched the start of Dark Water, and I'm really curious as to what would've happened if The Master hadn't just happened to be downloading humanity's minds into a Matrix Slice at the same time the Doctor was apparently sincerely searching for the Afterlife. Also Missydroid is loving hilarious when you can read the Master loving around with the Doctor into it. "My heart... is maintained... by the Doctor." Organza Quiz posted:It's very blink-and-you'll-miss-it but at the end of the episode when Danny's talking to Clara he says something to the effect of "this place is dying now." To me that implies that the whole thing is switching off or falling apart and whoever doesn't get out right then and there is going to disappear. That said, I completely agree that everyone's coming back to life again one way or another. It's a pretty big plot point to gloss over, to be honest. I mean, really, letting the thing die is a huge ethical clusterfuck, given the implication by the fact that Danny's there that all the downloaded minds still exist in the nethersphere. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 10:37
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MikeJF posted:It's a pretty big plot point to gloss over, to be honest. I mean, really, letting the thing die is a huge ethical clusterfuck, given the implication by the fact that Danny's there that all the downloaded minds still exist in the nethersphere. This is the season that glossed over the Doctor deciding to let a bunch of kids die because their parents were going to die and it would be sad if they grew up without parents so if we're going down the path of serious ethical considerations we're gonna be there a long time.
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Nov 13, 2014 10:59
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Automatic Slim posted:Also, CyberBrig flys off into the sky, no bright explosion like the rest, so there's hope for a future appearance... With a mustache. And a normal Cyberman pretending to be CyberBrig could have an eyepatch. And wasn't there a leaked shot of Amy and Rory's tombstone earlier this year?
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Nov 13, 2014 10:59
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Another point about Dark Water... I notice that the 3W logo resembling a cyberman eye gets more explicit over the course of the episode. Like, the first time you really see it is on the wall of Seb's office, where it's two separate circles that don't really overlap. Then there's the logo in the video, where it overlaps a little... then you see it on the doors later, where it fully reaches the proportions of a cyberman eye. It's nicely done.
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Nov 13, 2014 11:09
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MikeJF posted:You know, I just rewatched the start of Dark Water, and I'm really curious as to what would've happened if The Master hadn't just happened to be downloading humanity's minds into a Matrix Slice at the same time the Doctor was apparently sincerely searching for the Afterlife. The Doctor was searching for that because of Clara, and he has Clara as his companion because of the Masters influence. They never gave an explanation for why Clara, the Master having some sense that she was going to be a common link in both of their timelines and it being a paradoxical loop seems as likely an explanation as any.
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Nov 13, 2014 11:43
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You know, honestly I'd find the Cybermen much more threatening if they didn't walk like badly made robots. If they were as fluid and rapidly responding as the people they'd upgraded. The reflexes and versatility and motion of a human body with the durability of a machine. But I guess it's much too late for that; walking like a bigass ASIMO is part of their thing.Senor Tron posted:The Doctor was searching for that because of Clara, and he has Clara as his companion because of the Masters influence. They never gave an explanation for why Clara, the Master having some sense that she was going to be a common link in both of their timelines and it being a paradoxical loop seems as likely an explanation as any. "You'd go to hell if she asked, and she would!". Given that the Doctor explicitly says they're going to "go to hell" to find Danny... you might be right. The Master deliberately found someone with the kind of personality and intelligence to force The Doctor to fix a death and would suffer a loss of a loved one (or the Master offed Danny to force it). But that's not really the point I was making. The Doctor being ready to go looking for the actual afterlife seemed to be a genuine plan and I'm wondering how it would've played out; the Master's plot got in the way and stopped us from seeing. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 12:13
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I just found out that Michelle “The Master” Gomez was in a show called Green Wing. 1. The clips I found on Youtube were pretty bloody funny. I don’t think I can look at Missy in the same light again. 2. WHY HAVE I NEVER HEARD ABOUT THIS SHOW BEFORE?!? Seriously, you people should have told me about this show back when Tamsin Greg was a guest star in The Long Game!
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Nov 13, 2014 13:58
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Okay, I just finished The Gathering. Did I miss something, or did they not explain why the Doctor doesn't remember 8687, or seemingly anything about the events of the Gathering in The Reaping? He also never figured out what the little patterns were in history that got him investigating at the beginning of the episode, right?
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Nov 13, 2014 14:58
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CobiWann posted:I just found out that Michelle “The Master” Gomez was in a show called Green Wing. Oh you are in for a treat  . Watch the guy playing Mac, and tell me he wouldn't be the ideal Ginger Doctor. You've got two seasons and a movie to look forward to.Also Michelle Gomez as Sue White is the best character in the show.
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Nov 13, 2014 15:09
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Neddy Seagoon posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRW-Gc8EQlk Missy is now hard to take seriously, even at her most menacing.
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Nov 13, 2014 16:00
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My ex and me enjoyed watching Bad Education, which also has Michelle Gomez, so part of her zeal for this season was having Missy around, and was her favorite part of both parts of the finale.
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Nov 13, 2014 17:25
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Bicyclops posted:Okay, I just finished The Gathering. Did I miss something, or did they not explain why the Doctor doesn't remember 8687, or seemingly anything about the events of the Gathering in The Reaping? He also never figured out what the little patterns were in history that got him investigating at the beginning of the episode, right? It's not explained. Joe Lidster is only interested in misery, not plot.
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Nov 13, 2014 17:27
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DoctorWhat posted:It's not explained. Joe Lidster is only interested in misery, not plot. He really does write some horrible stories. His contribution to 100 has always stuck with me because of how utterly mean spirited it is.
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Nov 13, 2014 17:39
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IN other audio related news, my ex's favorite Doctor's making a comeback! http://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/the-third-doctor-boxed-set Big Finish News posted:As announced in this month's Doctor Who Magazine (DWM), next year sees Big Finish revisiting a hugely popular era of Doctor Who...
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Nov 13, 2014 17:41
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