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Littlefinger posted:It is also very important that you specifically roll exactly two d10s (and not one d20 or a single d10) to check against the scientifically determined 60-40 chance of lolsorandom. That actually makes sense as a standardization thing. All the other rolls like that are d100's. What's not making sense to me is why the DMG seems to be full of stuff for players like magic items and playable races. What gives?
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Nov 13, 2014 12:51
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I also love that you can't fit the party in the submarine. So it's really useful when like, only some members of the party are going on a cool undersea adventure! And the others are uh
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Nov 13, 2014 13:06
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Well you see you can't put magic items in the player's book because then they will want to use the coolest sounding items when they play.
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Nov 13, 2014 13:07
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Jimbozig posted:That actually makes sense as a standardization thing. All the other rolls like that are d100's. If they put it in the player book, then the players might know about the cool stuff and feel entitled to use it! Can't have them getting access to anything neat without begging the almighty GM first!
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Nov 13, 2014 13:19
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ProfessorCirno posted:Amulet of Planes: Make an Intelligence check. On a failure, either restart the campaign or watch your DM get angry. Luckily it's in the Dungeon Master's Guide, so the only way for the players to inadvertently poo poo on the campaign is if the DM willed the item into existence! Jimbozig posted:That actually makes sense as a standardization thing. All the other rolls like that are d100's. Playable races: they're supposed to be alternate/optional races. Insofar as the model is to publish multiple books, they're in a separate book because it's supposed to be up to the DM if he's going to allow Eladrin or Aasimar to show up in games. Same goes for alternative/optional combat options or ability options or creating new spells, and so on. Magic items: the idea is that the DM creates the world/adventure/dungeon and so they need those tables to pick and choose what to stock the adventure with. The more cynical view is that putting the magic item into the player's handbook will create a feeling of entitlement: "this thing exists and I want it! The DM should give it to me! I expect it!" although that is of course a dumb thing to believe is worth working around. Basically, if you're starting from the perspective that you should publish multiple books in the first place, then it makes sense to create one book for the players to use so that they know how to play the game and their characters and nothing else, and then two more books for the DM to use so that they can run the game. Of course, that's dumb given the alternative of simply putting everything into one book that everyone owns and uses, because it's not like a hypothetical single-volume D&D Next would literally cost as much as the PHB, MM and DMG put together.
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Nov 13, 2014 13:20
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If I couldn't jam everything into one book, I'd really go with 2 books. PHB + magic items + race/class building guide. DMG + monster manual. If it had to be 3 books, I think a better way would be: Put the rules of the game in the PHB, along with everything you might write on a character sheet, including magic items. Also include the "how to make a custom race/class" stuff if you're going to have it at all. You should be able to play a full version of the game with just this book and a published adventure. Put "how to build adventure/encounter/setting/monster/NPC/whatever" in the DMG, with all the tables you have to have to be D&D. Include a pre-made town, wilderness area, dungeon, and adventure with examples that step you through how the rules and advice presented were used to generate them. Include an example of play through the first scene of that adventure, with advice about what you might do if your PCs go west instead of east and whatever. This book should be "how to write and run a non-poo poo game: the manual". Just put monsters in the monster book I guess, because you could probably fill 5 books the size of the current MM and not run out of D&D creatures. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 13:36
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I like how totally hosed the wording on the Amulet of the Planes is. It should say: "On a successful check, you and others may travel to the location as per the Plane Shift spell." What it currently actually does is: "On a successful check, you cast the Plane Shift spell for whatever purpose you see fit - including traveling to some destination other than the one you mentioned, or banishing a motherfucker to whichever hell you prefer. Oh and while this is a legit use of the amulet, somehow, we won't tell you the save DC." And then some people might say, no way man, it's obviously only intended for self-travel. Is it though? Is it really? It's a magic amulet that gives you control over the Planes by letting you cast Plane Shift sort of at will. By making it work specifically like the spell that can banish motherfuckers, how are people supposed to draw the conclusion that it's not actually supposed to function like the spell that can banish motherfuckers? By comparing it to past editions? gently caress that, that's not how you write a game. The 5e books should be self-contained, not require knowledge of previous editions to function.
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Nov 13, 2014 14:11
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Sage Genesis posted:I like how totally hosed the wording on the Amulet of the Planes is. It's really silly how often they use "as per the x spell" instead of just telling us what the thing is actually capable of doing. A unicorn can "cast" Detect Evil and Good, Druidcraft and Pass Without Trace at-will, and it can cast Calm Emotions, Dispel Evil and Good and Entangle once per day.
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Nov 13, 2014 14:45
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Esser-Z posted:If they put it in the player book, then the players might know about the cool stuff and feel entitled to use it! Can't have them getting access to anything neat without begging the almighty GM first! But if you want to restrict all cool things players might enjoy, why are the spellcasters in the PHB  ?
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Nov 13, 2014 15:47
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NachtSieger posted:But if you want to restrict all cool things players might enjoy, why are the spellcasters in the PHB Considering that feats are explicitly listed as 'optional', what are they doing in the PHB, for that matter? If fancy races and magic items are not for players (except for the random races that are ok maybe if you ask your DM  ), what is half of this stuff even doing in the book that players are to sully with their unenlightened hands? (Mearls is a hack.)Bring it back to true basics. Let humans be the Fighting Mans and Magic Users and Thieves, have Dwarves and Elves as their own race-classes, maybe keep the bit with the character backgrounds in if you feel the players won't be total troglodytes with such power (force them to roll on it in front of the DM, though!), and make sure you print the spells and their shape diagram in an extra-large font. (It'll be printed in the DMG too since everything important uses spells as it is.) Everything else a player will need to know, their DM can give in handouts. Also, if one wanted to forge a document in 5th edition, what skill would that be, if any? I'd love to know what people think, as my DM isn't sure which it could be, depending on circumstances, and is open to advice since the standby failed. 
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Nov 13, 2014 16:38
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Moinkmaster posted:Also, if one wanted to forge a document in 5th edition, what skill would that be, if any? I'd love to know what people think, as my DM isn't sure which it could be, depending on circumstances, and is open to advice since the standby failed. The PHB lists forging documents as an Intelligence check
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Nov 13, 2014 17:02
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Harthacnut posted:The PHB lists forging documents as an Intelligence check Yep. And the forgery kit notes that if you're proficient with it, you can add your proficiency bonus to such a check as well. You can easily get proficiency by taking the Charlatan background for instance.
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Nov 13, 2014 17:10
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Libertad! posted:Mayonnaise-generating magic item. I'm going to put this in a campaign, only it ONLY generates mayonnaise. Like that's its entire purpose. A powerful wizard decided "Man I loving love mayonnaise" and thus the Jar of Infinite Mayonnaise was invented.
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Nov 13, 2014 17:47
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Maxwell Lord posted:I'm going to put this in a campaign, only it ONLY generates mayonnaise. Like that's its entire purpose. A powerful wizard decided "Man I loving love mayonnaise" and thus the Jar of Infinite Mayonnaise was invented. Challenge a dragon that he cannot finish the jar of mayo. Leave mayo filled dragon corpse while you loot the cave.
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Nov 13, 2014 17:50
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m.hache posted:Challenge a dragon that he cannot finish the jar of mayo. What happens if the dragon just swallows the jar?
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Nov 13, 2014 18:09
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Why not just turn the thing over, and use it to slowly generate infinite power for the town? Slowly dripping its goopy droppings over a big waterwheel, generating force to turn the gears that create industry and fuel progress. Big rear end set piece battle through the steampunk clocktower and all they heroes find is this overturned jar of Helmann's at the center. The new Big Mayonnaise River is South Town's problem...
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Nov 13, 2014 18:49
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kirtar posted:What happens if the dragon just swallows the jar? I would assume it continues to spill over. I'll roll for it if I have to.
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Nov 13, 2014 18:54
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Spoilers Below posted:Why not just turn the thing over, and use it to slowly generate infinite power for the town? Slowly dripping its goopy droppings over a big waterwheel, generating force to turn the gears that create industry and fuel progress. Big rear end set piece battle through the steampunk clocktower and all they heroes find is this overturned jar of Helmann's at the center. The new Big Mayonnaise River is South Town's problem... I believe I read that in 3.X someone used that infinite jar of water over a permanently heated metal to make a steam engine that needed no fuel.
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Nov 13, 2014 19:35
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crime fighting hog posted:I believe I read that in 3.X someone used that infinite jar of water over a permanently heated metal to make a steam engine that needed no fuel. Would turning the water into steam to spin a turbine be more efficient than just pouring the water on a turbine to spin it? Paging an engineer to the 5e thread!
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Nov 13, 2014 20:10
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Jimbozig posted:Would turning the water into steam to spin a turbine be more efficient than just pouring the water on a turbine to spin it? Paging an engineer to the 5e thread! If it's contained steam? Yeah, since steam expands. I'm not even an engineer!
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Nov 13, 2014 20:16
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kirtar posted:What happens if the dragon just swallows the jar? It better be careful about not chewing if it values it's cholesterol.
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Nov 13, 2014 20:31
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Gort posted:It better be careful about not chewing if it values it's cholesterol. The patient is a dragon with history of hyperlipidemia...
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Nov 13, 2014 20:44
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Darwinism posted:If it's contained steam? Yeah, since steam expands. I'm not even an engineer! yeah but the decanter of endless water could create an endless gyser: “Geyser” produces a 20-foot-long, 1-foot-wide stream at 30 gallons per round. - the force of which is getting you substantial efficiency as straight hydro-electric. You'd then take the infinite water and also generate infinite steam to turn another turbine. or just use infinite heat to make a thermocouples to generate infinite electricity and then you can have an endless nerd argument about metagaming and player knowledge vs PC knowledge and then i have an INT score of 24 with enhancements, that means by IQ is 240 which means i figure it out, also i solve fermi's last theorm and make a laser gun god I hated the Reality Physics Simulator Edition that was 3.X
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Nov 13, 2014 23:09
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Libertad! posted:Mayonnaise-generating magic item.
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Nov 14, 2014 00:25
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Sage Genesis posted:Yep. And the forgery kit notes that if you're proficient with it, you can add your proficiency bonus to such a check as well. You can easily get proficiency by taking the Charlatan background for instance. The Charlatan feature states "you can forge documents including official papers and personal letters as long as you have seen an example of the kind of doc/handwriting." Does this mean you can just do it without a roll? can't do it otherwise without the charlatan feature? isn't actually a background feature?
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Nov 14, 2014 00:27
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I personally prefer the Pirate variant of sailor so that one way or another I never pay for drinks or room and board unless someone wants to get stabbed over it.
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Nov 14, 2014 00:39
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Yakse posted:The Charlatan feature states "you can forge documents including official papers and personal letters as long as you have seen an example of the kind of doc/handwriting." Does this mean you can just do it without a roll? can't do it otherwise without the charlatan feature? isn't actually a background feature? So either you actually can't "forge documents including official papers and personal letters as long as you have seen an example of the kind of doc/handwriting" without using the same rules as people who didn't take the background, or the background giving you proficiency in forgery tools is useless? How surprising.
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Nov 14, 2014 00:53
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AlphaDog posted:So either you actually can't "forge documents including official papers and personal letters as long as you have seen an example of the kind of doc/handwriting" without using the same rules as people who didn't take the background, or the background giving you proficiency in forgery tools is useless? Yep. Given that the tool's description and the Intelligence check allow for the forging of documents, that special feature of the Charlatan is redundant. It's presented as if it's a special benefit even though anybody else could also do it with the proper kit. (Arguably even without the kit, the rules are very vague on this.) See also: Pathfinder's Prone Shooter feat.
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Nov 14, 2014 02:03
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kirtar posted:What happens if the dragon just swallows the jar? The dragon gains a mayo based breath attack.
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Nov 14, 2014 02:54
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PeterWeller posted:The dragon gains a mayo based breath attack. Would that make it acid damage since it's basically just vomiting on you?
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Nov 14, 2014 03:32
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Also poison effect, because you know what happens when you leave mayo out that long Level 20 Mayo dragon
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Nov 14, 2014 03:45
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Jimbozig posted:Would turning the water into steam to spin a turbine be more efficient than just pouring the water on a turbine to spin it? Paging an engineer to the 5e thread! Not enough information. How much water are we talking about, how hot is the metal, how portable does it need to be, etc. To clarify, you're getting energy in one of two ways: From the water you're either getting energy from the potential energy of having it fall and turn a turbine on the way (hydroelectric dam style), or you're getting power from having it be a geyser and pushing the turbine that way (so some combination of kinetic and potential energy) From the steam you're getting your energy from the permanently heated metal as that metal turns the water into steam over time (said steam then drives the turbine) So ultimately you need to compare the energy output of the heated metal to the energy output of the water source. Whichever is higher is more effective. That being said, it'd be more or less trivial to just make a device that does both!
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Nov 14, 2014 05:29
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Of course, no one has ever thought of this before in-setting. Man a campaign where the party started the magic industrial revolution could be pretty great actually. edit: Though the jar presented in the preview would be useless for that, and pretty useless in general since it seems that it can only ever produce one type listed per day as it is written. Does 5E not believe in editors? This sentence bothers me so much. "Once the jug starts producing a liquid, it can't produce a different one, or more of one that has reached its maximum, until the next dawn." Darwinism fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Nov 14, 2014 |
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Nov 14, 2014 05:45
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Darwinism posted:Does 5E not believe in editors? Each magic item description has already gone through the proofreading/editorial process (some more than once) in the previous books they were published in. It was a great way to save time and money, which is why the DMG was released ahead of schedule and cheaper than ever before.
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Nov 14, 2014 06:12
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Is it just me or are those items really BORING? They.. don't really do anything very much, considering how rare and difficult to get they are. It's like 'yay, I can make a small amount of nonspecific acid. Just wait whilst I pour it on the door hinges to try to break the door down and the DM tells me it's vinegar or a quart of basic poison (what the gently caress is basic poison, bad code?  ). I slip it into the king's drink so he dies and the DM just notes that he gets drunk, alcohol is a poison .It also REALLY bothers me that the animated shield doesn't have anything listing when you can NEXT use it, once it's fallen to the ground. I posted about it on the Wizards forums and the universal answer was 'you can just pick it up and set it going again' at which point... well, unless you're in ACTUAL combat at that ACTUAL moment, it's not going to make ANY loving DIFFERENCE so why not just make it permanent? Why make a cool item break people out of the story every 10 minutes to go 'oh yeah I reactivate my shield'? More to the point, if that;s what they actually mean, why not loving WRITE IT DOWN?! Wasting quarter of a column on a table of lolrandom for how you control your automaton (gently caress's sake, you just control the automaton, there's really no need to go into such loving ludicrous detail about what levers to pulls, it's a submarine scorpion robot, just let it be cool), but don't put in one sentence about how the animated shield recharges. Nice loving job, assholes. ragin' about elfgames ITT
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Nov 14, 2014 09:47
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Another DMG preview, this time from the Dungeon Creation section:  I know I've done this a couple of times now and I don't know if it really helps/matters for the thread. Let me know?
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Nov 14, 2014 19:20
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thespaceinvader posted:It also REALLY bothers me that the animated shield doesn't have anything listing when you can NEXT use it, once it's fallen to the ground. I posted about it on the Wizards forums and the universal answer was 'you can just pick it up and set it going again' at which point... well, unless you're in ACTUAL combat at that ACTUAL moment, it's not going to make ANY loving DIFFERENCE so why not just make it permanent? Why make a cool item break people out of the story every 10 minutes to go 'oh yeah I reactivate my shield'? Jackard fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Nov 14, 2014 |
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Nov 14, 2014 19:31
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Jackard posted:with this bullshit they introduced? Where did that come from? Been asking myself that since the previews began. A lot of these things just make me wonder what were they thinking?
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Nov 14, 2014 20:11
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gradenko_2000 posted:I know I've done this a couple of times now and I don't know if it really helps/matters for the thread. Let me know? It's cool. I'm not really invested in 5e, but I like the previews for the discussions they spark. Also, I love the art. I mean, poo poo, look at that ettin there, he's all pissed off that the dungeon he somehow got trapped in was obviously designed by some hack who didn't take into account that a 20' tall giant might have trouble fitting through that door.* He's left there, ineffectually grasping at the first adventurer stupid enough to walk past that door. Seems to have worked for him thus far, 'cause he's been able to fashion a kickass bone necklace out of the remains of his past victims. *There's a metaphor about 5e's design here, I'm sure.
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Nov 14, 2014 20:27
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gradenko_2000 posted:I know I've done this a couple of times now and I don't know if it really helps/matters for the thread. Let me know? I'm a fan, personally. Ratpick posted:It's cool. I'm not really invested in 5e, but I like the previews for the discussions they spark. Also, I love the art. Partly for this, and partly because it's fun seeing where the DMG is going to fix all of our problems by basically making GBS threads the stuff from the 3.5 books with worse editing back out on us after all. Anyway, countdown to someone clutching their pearls for Mearls and telling us how ANY DAY NOW we'll get the preview page that shows us the gaming way home to good games, Quantum Leap-style.
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Nov 14, 2014 20:54
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