Let's Read the Sword of Truth books! (Or not. Can we not?)

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PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Pththya-lyi posted:

It was worse - Crassus' slaves would only put out the fire if the owner of the flaming building agreed to sell it to Crassus for a song. The deal was terrible for the original owner, but was better than having nothing. He'd have the building rebuilt and refurbished, then start renting it out.

Nah, that's not how it worked. Crassus would charge an exorbitant price to put out the fire, and if you didn't pay, he would let your building burn and then come back later and buy the remains for a song.

# ? Nov 14, 2014 15:26

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 23:55

Pththya-lyi: Nov 8, 2009; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Oooh. My bad.

The point still stands that he was practically an extortionist

# ? Nov 14, 2014 15:28

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Pththya-lyi posted:

Oooh. My bad.

The point still stands that he was practically an extortionist

Oh yeah for sure, but to be fair to Crassus, pretty much all public services in Rome were performed by extortionists of one stripe or another.

# ? Nov 14, 2014 15:48

Toph Bei Fong: Feb 29, 2008

JackMann posted:

Why the gently caress should I pay to have your house put out? Clearly, if you couldn't afford to pay the fire fighters yourself, you deserve to have your belongings lost. The free market will ensure that those who deserve protection will receive it. After all, it's not like fires spread, right?

We mock, but it happens...

Basically a guy who lives outside the city limits to avoid paying taxes didn't pay his annual firefighter's fee to the city, and they refused to put his house out when it caught on fire, because if they did it for him, no one would pay the fee (kinda like getting car insurance after an accident), they'd all just pay as soon as their houses caught on fire, defeating the purpose of the fee in the first place. They showed up to insure the fire didn't spread to the surrounding houses that had paid the fee.

$75 a year is a steal for not having your house burn down completely, you'd think, but then again I live in a society and just pay taxes in exchange for a complete package of government services, so what do I know? :v:

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/10/04/122193/county-firefighters-subscription/

quote:

Imagine your home catches fire but the local fire department won�t respond, then watches it burn. That�s exactly what happened to a local family tonight. A local neighborhood is furious after firefighters watched as an Obion County, Tennessee, home burned to the ground.

The homeowner, Gene Cranick, said he offered to pay whatever it would take for firefighters to put out the flames, but was told it was too late. They wouldn�t do anything to stop his house from burning. Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay. The mayor said if homeowners don�t pay, they�re out of luck. [...]

We asked the mayor of South Fulton if the chief could have made an exception. �Anybody that�s not in the city of South Fulton, it�s a service we offer, either they accept it or they don�t,� Mayor David Crocker said.

Toph Bei Fong fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Nov 14, 2014

# ? Nov 14, 2014 17:38

claw game handjob: Mar 27, 2007; pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

A sequence happens where Richard can't call birds worth poo poo, so he's totally got actual flaws, you guys. It's very My First Original Character. Anyway, the Mud People decide to summon their ancestors because FINALLY Richard has done enough to merit it. Except only men can go in JUST BECAUSE but gently caress it he's going to break one more rule and Kahlan can come in to translate as well. Also: you have to be naked and lick a toad.

quote:

She held his eyes for a long time, then turned to Richard. "I need to explain something to you. When a person calls a gathering, they are sometimes asked questions by the spirits, through the elders, to be sure they are acting of noble intent. If you answer a question in a way that a spirit ancestor finds dishonorable or untruthful� they may kill you. Not the elders, the spirits."

"I have the sword," he reminded her.

"No, you won't. If you want a gathering, you must do as the elders do, face the spirits with nothing but yourself. You can wear no sword, no clothes, and you must have mud painted on you." She took a breath, pushed some hair back over her shoulder. "If I am not there to translate, you may get killed simply because you cannot answer a question you don't understand. Then Rahl wins. I must be there to interpret. But if I'm there, I, too, can wear no clothes. The Bird Man is in a fret, and wishes to know what you think of this. He is hoping you will forbid me from doing this."

Richard folded his arms, looking her in the eye. "I think you are bound and determined, one way or another, to have your clothes off in the spirit house." The corners of his mouth turned up, and his eyes sparkled. Kahlan had to bite her lower lip to keep from laughing. The Bird Man looked from one to the other, confused.
"Richard!" She spoke his name in a rising tone of caution. "This is serious. And don't get your hopes up. It will be dark." Still, she could hardly keep from laughing.

[...]

The Bird Man took a woven basket sitting near him and reached inside. He pulled out a small frog, then passed the basket to the next elder. Each took a frog and began rubbing its back against the skin of his chest. When the basket reached her, she held it between her hands and looked up at the Bird Man.

"Why do we do this?"

"These are red spirit frogs, very hard to find. They have a substance on their backs that makes us forget this world, and allows us to see the spirits."

"Honored elder, I may be one of the Mud People, but I am also a Confessor. I must always hold back my power. If I forget this world, I may not be able to do that."

"It is too late to back out now. The spirits are with us. They have seen you, seen the symbols on you that open their eyes. You may not leave. If one is here who is blind to them, they will kill that person, and steal their spirit. I understand your problem, but I cannot help you. You will just have to do your best to hold back your power. If you cannot do so, then one of us will be lost. It is a price we will have to pay. If you want to die, then leave your frog in the basket. If you want to stop Darken Rahl, take it out."

And I bet you thought I made that up. (Not transcribed in this post: the uncomfortable description of Kahlan rubbing a frog between her breasts at length.)

So the ancestral spirits are basically your GM playing a djinn, and Richard is that rear end in a top hat rules lawyer with a two-page, pre-planned Wish.

quote:

"We have decided to answer your question. If we can. What is the object of magic you seek?"

"One of the three boxes of Orden."

When Kahlan translated, the spirits suddenly howled as if in pain. "We are not allowed to answer that question. The boxes of Orden are in play. This gathering is over."

The elders' eyes began to close. Richard jumped to his feet. "You would let Darken Rahl kill all those people when you have the power to help?"

"Yes."

"You would let him kill your descendants? Your living flesh and blood? You aren't spirit ancestors to our people, you are spirit traitors!"

"Not true."

"Then tell me!"

"Not allowed."

"Please! Don't leave us without your help. Let me ask another question?"

"We are not allowed to disclose where the boxes of Orden are. It is forbidden. Think, and ask another question."

"You can't tell me where the boxes are. Are there any other restrictions?"

"Yes."

"How many boxes does Rahl already have?"

"Two."

He looked at the elders evenly. "You have just disclosed where two of the boxes are. That is forbidden," he reminded them. "Or maybe it is simply a gray shade of intent?"

Silence.

"That information is not restricted. Your question?"

Richard leaned forward like a dog on scent. "Can you tell me who knows where the last box is?"

Richard already knew the answer to this question, she suspected. She recognized his manner of slicing the loaf the other way.

That is the shittiest metaphor, by the way, and I just wanted to highlight it. Holy god.

quote:

"We know the name of the person who has the box, and the names of several other people nearby, but we cannot tell you the names because that would be the same as telling you where it is. That is forbidden."

"Then, can you tell me the name of a person, other than Rahl, who is not in possession of the last box, who is not near it, but who knows where it is?"

"There is one we can name. She knows where the box is. If we tell you her name, that would not lead you to the box, only to her. This is allowed. It will be up to you, not us, to get whatever information you might."

"That is my question, then: who is it? Name her."

When they uttered the name, Kahlan froze with a jolt. She didn't translate. The elders shook at the mere name, spoken aloud.

"Who is it? What's her name?" Richard demanded of her.

Kahlan looked up at him. "We are as good as dead," she whispered.

"Why? Who is it?"

Kahlan sank back, into herself. "It is the witch woman, Shota."

"And do you know where she is?"

Kahlan nodded, her brow wrinkled in terror. "In the Agaden Reach." She whispered the name as if even the words tasted of poison. "Not even a wizard would dare to go into the Reach."

Just to top off this shitshow, DARKEN RAHL IS LITERALLY OUTSIDE THE HUT BURNING MEN ALIVE ON A DRAGON. The spirits go "So, you can't beat this dude, but right now, he can't find you because you're in here with us. You now get to spend the night halfway to Hell and our people are gonna die. If you can handle that, congrats, you're the hero. If not, go outside and die." Richard, not surprisingly, stays inside to not die. But he gets pouty about it.

Then we meet Princess Violet. Some of you probably instantly remember this character.

quote:

Princess Violet turned suddenly and slapped Rachel's face. Hard. Rachel had done nothing wrong, of course; the Princess just liked to slap her when she least expected it. The Princess thought it was fun. Rachel didn't try to hide how much it hurt; if it didn't hurt enough, the Princess would slap her again. Rachel put her hand over the sting, her bottom lip quivering, tears welling up in her eyes, but she said nothing.

She turned to the tall wood-framed mirror, admiring herself as her fingers hooked the clasp behind her plump neck while Rachel held her long, dull, brown hair out of the way for her. Rachel eyed herself in the mirror, inspecting the red mark on her face. She hated looking at herself in the mirror, hated seeing her hair, how it looked when the Princess chopped it off short. She wasn't allowed to let her hair grow, of course, she was a nobody, but she wished so much it could at least be cut even. Almost everyone else had their hair cut short, but it was even. The Princess liked chopping it for her, liked making it all jagged. Princess Violet liked it when other people thought Rachel was ugly.

"I'm going down to the dining room," the Princess said, lifting her nose, "to watch the guests arrive, and wait for dinner. Clean up this dreadful mess, then go to the kitchen and tell the cooks I don't want my roast cooked like leather, like the last time, or I'll tell my mother to have them beaten."

"Of course, Princess Violet." Rachel curtsied.

The Princess held her big nose up. "And?"

"And� thank you, Princess Violet, for bringing me, and letting me see how pretty you look in the jewelry."

"Well, it's the least I can do; you must get tired of looking at your ugly face in the mirror. My mother says we must do kind things for the less fortunate." She reached in a pocket and brought out something. "Here. Take the key and lock the door when you're finished putting everything back."

Rachel curtsied again. "Yes, Princess Violet."

While the key was dropping into Rachel's outstretched hand, the Princess's other hand came out of nowhere, slapping Rachel's face unexpectedly, and unexpectedly hard. She stood stunned as Princess Violet walked out of the room, laughing a high, squeaky, snorting laugh. Princess Violet's laugh hurt almost as much as the slap.

Hey. Hey guys. Princess Violet is going to be the SYMPATHETIC ONE soon.

# ? Nov 16, 2014 16:32

Pimpmust: Oct 1, 2008

And here I thought I'd already encountered the worst sort of Princess character in (fantasy) literature. That or Goodkin here read that same character and decided to one-up her.
:frogon:

# ? Nov 16, 2014 17:06

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

Oh man poo poo is about to get so much more aggressively Randian any moment now.

# ? Nov 16, 2014 17:44

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

How do I not remember any of this poo poo? :psyduck:

# ? Nov 16, 2014 17:50

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Oh god no, please not princess Violent! All the bad memories are rushing back! :froggonk:

# ? Nov 16, 2014 18:27

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

Zereth posted:

How do I not remember any of this poo poo?

Because like everything else that isn't Richard directly doing a thing, none of it ends up mattering.

It's so much worse than I remembered.

# ? Nov 16, 2014 18:34

alarumklok: Jun 30, 2012

Zereth posted:

How do I not remember any of this poo poo?

You too? Jesus Christ how did I even manage to get through this when I was 12? I should have known better by then.

# ? Nov 16, 2014 19:57

Bieeanshee: Aug 21, 2000; Not keen on keening.; Grimey Drawer

This. This is why that shower took so long.

# ? Nov 16, 2014 22:50

Strong Mouse: Jun 11, 2012; You disrespect us. You drag corpses around. You steal, and you hurt feelings!

RRRRRRRAAAAARGH!

Prepare to die!

I love the Shota part and the Princess Violet part. They just show what type of author Goodkind is.

I barely remember anything that is going to happen until we start getting close to it, but when I do remember it is ~~horrible~~wonderful.

# ? Nov 16, 2014 22:59

claw game handjob: Mar 27, 2007; pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

Rachel is a cartoonishly put-upon little girl. After the princess' bullshit, Rachel is left to clean up the queen's jewelry and hopefully not get caught. Just as she's about to sneak out, the court wizard, Giller, enters, curious about the noise. Why would Giller give a poo poo, you ask? Well, it's because the last Box of Orden is stored in here as an unassuming "jewelry box".

These people literally leave WMDs around in plain sight where kids can toss the fuckers around. Amazing.

Now, I've been snipping it for brevity, but Zedd has basically shat on Giller the entire novel thus far, whenever Kahlan tells tales of the Midlands, or when he was cursing those SELLOUT WIZARDS he trained. So actually seeing him is a weird change of pace.

quote:

He put a long finger over her lips, to gently silence her. "I get the point, child. So, you are the Princess's playmate then?"

She nodded in earnest. "Rachel."

His grin got bigger. "That's a pretty name. Glad to meet you, Rachel. I'm sorry I frightened you. I was only coming to check on the Queen's box."

No one had ever told her that her name was pretty. But he had shut the big door. "You're not going to strike me dead? Or change me into something horrid?"

"Oh, dear, no," he laughed. He turned his head, peering at her with one eye. "Why are there red marks on your cheeks?"

She didn't answer, too scared to say. Slowly, carefully, he reached out, his fingers touching one cheek, then the other. Her eyes opened wide. The sting was gone.

"Better?"

She nodded. His eyes seemed so big, the way they looked at her up close like this. They made her feel like telling him, so she did. "The Princess hits me," she admitted, ashamed.

"So? She is not so kind to you, then?"

She shook her head, casting her gaze downward. Then the wizard did something that absolutely stunned her. He reached around and gave her a gentle hug. She stood stiffly for a moment, then put her arms around his neck, hugging him back. His long white whiskers tickled the side of her face and neck, but she still liked it.

He looked at her with sad eyes. "I'm sorry, dear child. The Princess and the Queen can be quite cruel. Tell you what, I have something here that might help." A thin hand reached into his robes, and he looked up into the air while his hand felt around. Then his hand found what it was looking for. Her eyes went wide as he pulled out a doll with short hair the same yellow color as hers. He patted the doll's tummy. "This is a trouble doll."

I think you get the gist. Giller actually goes to absurd lengths to try and cheer Rachel up, giving her an enchanted doll, making a hiding spot for it (as Violet forbids Rachel to have any toys or possessions)... seriously, read this.

quote:

"Well, as you walk down the central path of the garden, there are short urns, on both sides, with yellow flowers in them." Rachel nodded. She knew where they were. "I will hide your doll in the third urn on the right. I will put a wizard's web over it� that's magic� so no one but you will find it." He took the doll and carefully tucked it away back in his robes as her eyes followed it. "The next time you are put out for the night, you go there and you will find your doll. Then you can keep it at your place, your wayward pine, where no one will find it, or take it from you.

"And I will also leave you a magic fire stick. Just build a little stack of sticks, not too big now, with stones around it, and then hold the magic fire stick to it and say 'Light for me,' and it will burn, so you can keep warm."

Please note: "Wizard webs" are going to be like... the driving force of so much stupid poo poo by this series' end. "Hey Zedd how did we not notice this world-changing artifact that was in the Mud People's toilet back when we were dealing with Darken Rahl?" "Wizard webs, my dear boy! Bags, I tell you this every time."

Let's just get into this: Queen Milena is a petty tyrant and yet still not half the monster her daughter is (mostly because she will die before she can really be shown as in-depth as Violet). Tonight she is throwing a dinner party with the other nobles of the kingdom where she has Darken Rahl's "Emperor's New Sculpin"* on tap for all the guests. The cooks ran out of the original batch ages ago and just threw some poo poo in a jug.

_{* If you do not deal with beer, this joke probably fell flat. Just pretend it worked and move on. I sell liquor for a living and you have to either make terrible jokes about it as venting, or drink yourself to death.}

quote:

The Queen stood, holding her goblet in the air, and the little dog in her other arm. "Lords and ladies, I present you with the drink of enlightenment, that we may see the truth. This is a very precious commodity; few are offered the opportunity of enlightenment. I have availed myself of it many times, of course, that I might see the truth, the way of Father Rahl, in order to lead my people to the common good. Drink up."

Some people looked like they didn't want to, but only for a minute. Then they all drank. The Queen drank, after she saw that everyone else had, then sat back down with a funny look on her face. She leaned to a server, whispering. Rachel started to get worried; the Queen was frowning. When the Queen frowned, people got their heads chopped off.

The tall cook came out, smiling. The Queen motioned to him with her finger hooked, to lean closer. There was sweat on his forehead. Rachel guessed it was because the kitchen was so hot. She was sitting behind the Princess, who sat at the left arm of the Queen, so she could hear them talking.

"This does not taste the same," she said in her mean voice. She didn't always talk in her mean voice, but when she did, people got scared.

"Ah, well, Your Majesty, you see, in truth, uh, well, it's not, you see. Not the same, that is." Her eyebrows lifted and he talked faster. "You see, uh, in truth, well, I knew this was a very important dinner. Yes, I knew, you see, that you wouldn't want anything to go wrong. You see. Wouldn't want anyone to fail to be enlightened, to fail to see your brilliance, about all this, uh, business, so, you see, well," he leaned a little closer and lowered his voice to speak confidentially, "so I took the liberty of making the drink of enlightenment stronger. Much stronger, actually, you see. So no one would fail to see the rightness of what you say. I assure you, Your Majesty, it is so strong, no one will fail to be enlightened."

He leaned even closer, lowered his voice even more. "In fact, Your Majesty, it is so strong that anyone who fails to be enlightened, and opposes you after drinking it, well, they could only be a traitor."

"Really," the Queen whispered in surprise. "Well, I thought it was stronger."

"Very perceptive, Your Majesty, very perceptive. You have a very refined palate. I knew I wouldn't be able to fool you."

I'm seriously keeping my commentary to a minimum here because these scenes really speak for themselves... and I forgot that he was taking collectivist potshots from book one.

quote:

"A special treat, lords and ladies, for your entertainment." She snapped her fingers. "Bring in the fool." Guards brought in a man, and made him stand in the center of the room, directly in front of the Queen, all the tables around him. He was big and strong-looking, but he was bound with chains. The Queen leaned forward.

"We here have all agreed that an alliance with our ally, Darken Rahl, will bring great benefits to all our people, that we all will profit, together. That the little people, the workers, the farmers, will benefit the most. That they will be freed from the oppression of those who would only exploit them for profit, for gold, for greed. That from now on, we all will be working for the common good, not individual goals." The Queen frowned. "Please tell all these ignorant lords and ladies"�she swept her hand around the room�"how it is that you are smarter than they, and why you should be allowed to work only for yourself, instead of your fellow man."

The man had an angry look on his face. Rachel wished he would change it, before he got in trouble.

"The common good," he said, sweeping his hand around the room like the Queen had done, except his hands had chains on them. "This is what you call the common good? All you fine people look to be enjoying the good food, the warm fire. My children go hungry tonight because most of our crops have been taken, for the common good, for those who have decided not to bother to work, but to eat the fruit of my labor instead."

The people laughed.

"And you would deny them food, simply because you are fortunate that your crops grew better?" the Queen asked. "You are a selfish man."

"Their crops would grow better if they would plant seeds in the ground first."

"And so you have so little care for your fellow man, that you therefore would condemn them to starve?"

"My family starves! To feed others, to feed Rahl's army. To feed you fine lords and ladies, who do nothing but discuss and decide what to do with my crop, how to divide the product of my labor among others."

Rachel wished the man would keep still. He was going to get his head chopped off. The people and the Queen thought he was funny, though.

"And my family goes cold," he said, and his face looked even more angry, "because we aren't allowed to have fire." He pointed at a few of the fireplaces. "But here there is fire, to warm the people who tell me we are all equal now, how there will no longer be some put before others and I must therefore not be allowed to keep what is mine. Isn't it odd, that the people who tell me how we are to all be the same under the alliance with Darken Rahl and do no work other than to divide up the fruit of my labors, are all well fed, and warm, and have fine clothes on their backs. But my family goes hungry and cold."

Everyone laughed. Rachel didn't laugh. She knew what it was like to be hungry, and cold.

"Lords and ladies," the Queen said, with a chuckle, "did I not promise you royal entertainment? The drink of enlightenment lets us see what a selfish fool this man truly is. Just think, he actually believes it is right to profit while others starve. He would put his profit above the lives of his fellow man. For his greed, he would murder the hungry."

Everyone laughed with the Queen.

The Queen smacked her hand down on the table. Plates jumped and a few glasses fell over, spilling a red stain across the white tablecloth. Everyone fell quiet, except the little dog, who barked at the man. "This is the kind of greed that will be ended, when the People's Peace Army comes to help rid us of these human leeches that suck us all dry!" The Queen's round face was as red as the stains on the tablecloth. Everyone cheered and clapped for a long time. The Queen sat back, smiling at last.

The man's face was as red as hers. "Odd, isn't it, now that all the farmers, the workers in town, are all working for the common good, that there isn't enough good to go around, like there used to be, or enough food."

The Queen jumped to her feet. "Of course not!" she shouted. "Because of greedy people like you!" She took some deep breaths, till her face wasn't quite so red, then turned to the Princess. "Violet dear, you must learn matters of state sooner or later. You must learn how to serve the public good for all our people. Therefore, I will put this matter in your hands, so you may gain experience. What would you do with this traitor to our people? You choose, dear, and it will be done."

Princess Violet stood. Smiling, she looked around at the people.

"I say," she said, as she leaned forward a little, across the table, to look at the big man in chains, "I say, off with his head!"

Yes, Rahl's forces are indeed the People's Army.

The chapter ends nonsensically: Rachel 'misbehaves' so that Violet sends her out into the cold (and so she can grab her new toys/avoid watching an execution), then we just cut to a single snippet of Zedd, who has murdered his way through D'Haran territory trying to grab something that Rahl beat him to.

quote:

Furious, Zedd slapped his hand to the cold metal plate. The massive stone door slowly grated closed. He had to step over the bodies of D'Haran guards as he walked to the low wall. His fingers came to rest on the familiar, smooth stone as he leaned forward, looking out over the sleeping city below.

From this high wall on the mountainside, the city looked peaceful enough. But he had already slipped through the darkened streets and seen the troops everywhere. Troops that were there at the cost of many lives, on both sides.

But that wasn't the worst of it.

Darken Rahl had to have been here. Zedd pounded his fist to the stone. It had to be Darken Rahl who had taken it. The intricate web of shields should have held, but they hadn't. He had been away too many years. He had been a fool.

"Nothing is ever easy," the wizard whispered.

With that, though, good news! We're now halfway done with Wizard's First Rule. Let me assure you everything gets crazier from here.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 00:05

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

You know, poo poo like this is why I never made a connection between Libertarianism and Goodkind until someone pointed it out to me years later.

Because if a Queen, or a leader like Darken Rahl, is spouting this bullshit about the common good, common sense tells you it's just the typical lies of tyrants and nobility to take control of the populace.

In my head, every instance of "now we all work for the common good" got translated into typical villain-speak for "I steal all your poo poo because I'm evil".

Goodkind practically overdid his communist nazi mages so far, it all wraps around to standard-fantasy evil. It's literally so unreal and farcical it turns fantastical again.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 00:34

SirKibbles: Feb 27, 2011; I didn't like your old red text so here's some dancing cash.

Quick question,why in the flying gently caress does this obvious tyrant of a Queen care about the common good? Yeah you can say she's doing it for propaganda purposes but there are only other nobles at the party. There's no point to that whole speech but bullshit potshots at collectivists ,Ayn Rand would be proud.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 01:09

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

Libluini posted:

You know, poo poo like this is why I never made a connection between Libertarianism and Goodkind until someone pointed it out to me years later.

Because if a Queen, or a leader like Darken Rahl, is spouting this bullshit about the common good, common sense tells you it's just the typical lies of tyrants and nobility to take control of the populace.

In my head, every instance of "now we all work for the common good" got translated into typical villain-speak for "I steal all your poo poo because I'm evil".

Goodkind practically overdid his communist nazi mages so far, it all wraps around to standard-fantasy evil. It's literally so unreal and farcical it turns fantastical again.

That's what I was thinking reading through that. Who on earth reads that and goes "Ah, of course! Communists!" Other then the batshit insane author.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 03:06

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

Uh wait till you read Peasant John Galt's ridiculous speech because there's absolutely no misinterpreting that poo poo.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 03:13

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

I dunno, I feel like taking from the rich to give to the poor would have fixed that peasant's problems.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 03:20

SavageMessiah: Jan 28, 2009; Emotionally drained and spookified; Toilet Rascal

DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:

then we just cut to a single snippet of Zedd, who has murdered his way through D'Haran territory trying to grab something that Rahl beat him to.

Isn't the thing he's looking for the Book of Counted Shadows? Which Richard's dad took, of course...

# ? Nov 17, 2014 03:40

Toph Bei Fong: Feb 29, 2008

ProfessorCirno posted:

That's what I was thinking reading through that. Who on earth reads that and goes "Ah, of course! Communists!" Other then the batshit insane author.

Much like with the conspiracy theorist, as with so many things, the polemic author requires his enemies to be both omnipotent powerful yet utterly incompetent.

Comedy answer: Because A = A. No one could possible lie about their intentions! How could a man say one thing and then do another, yet still achieve a position of power?

# ? Nov 17, 2014 06:46

claw game handjob: Mar 27, 2007; pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

SavageMessiah posted:

Isn't the thing he's looking for the Book of Counted Shadows? Which Richard's dad took, of course...

Ssh. I'm not revealing EVERYTHING out of order, damnit.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 06:52

claw game handjob: Mar 27, 2007; pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

Thanks to the Mud People's description of Rahl riding a demon, Kahlan fills Richard/us in on more Midlands lore!

quote:

"A dragon! There are dragons in the Midlands? I didn't think there really were such things!"

"Well, there are." She frowned over at him. "I thought you knew." He gave a single shake of his head. "I guess you wouldn't, since Westland has no magic. Dragons have magic. I believe that's how they fly, with the aid of magic."

"I thought dragons were just legends, old tales." He flicked a pebble between his thumb and second finger, watching it bounce off a boulder.

"Old tales of things remembered, maybe. Anyway, they are real enough." With her thumbs, she lifted her hair away from the back of her neck, to cool it, and closed her eyes. "There are different kinds. Gray, green, red, and a few others, less common. The gray ones are the smallest, rather shy. The green are a lot bigger. The smartest and the biggest are the red ones. Some peoples of the Midlands keep the gray ones as pets, and for hunting. No one keeps green ones; they're rather dumb, have bad tempers and can be quite dangerous." Her eyelids slid open and she tilted her head to look up from under her arched eyebrows. "The red ones are something altogether different; they will fry you and eat you in a blink. And, they are smart."

Pay attention to that, as ~~it will be on the test~~ none of it is ever going to be relevant and I think there are only two dragons in the entire series, both red.

The pair get led off track by some poo poo named Old John who is clearly a trap. Meanwhile, talking dolls!

quote:

"Do you know what I should do?" Rachel asked the doll as she looked up at the firelight flickering on the dark branches inside the tree.

"Help Giller," the doll said.

She rolled over on one elbow and looked at the doll. "Help Giller?"

The doll nodded. "Help Giller."

That interlude does nothing for us for a while yet. Those get more frequent as time goes on. Goodkind does not balance plotlines well at all. For instance, when we cut back to Richard, he has suddenly noticed Old John doesn't leave footprints.

quote:

"But tell me, Old John, what is your old friend's name?"

"Why, it's Zedd." His eyebrows lifted. "How else would I know, if he weren't my old friend." His cloak was pulled tightly around him. His head had sunken into his shoulders.

"I'm the one who foolishly told you his name was Zedd. Now, you tell me your old friend's last name."

Old John watched him with a dark frown, his eyes moving slowly, appraising, measuring. Eyes of an animal.

With a sudden roar that made Richard flinch, the old man turned, his cloak flinging open. In the time it took to complete the turn, he mushroomed to twice his previous size.

An impossible nightmare came to life: fur and claws and fangs, where an old man had been an instant before.

A creature of snarl and snap.

I wish some of these terrible similes weren't too long, I'll probably need a namechange by the time this thread is through. There are only so many work-safe pictures that go with this name.

The fight scene isn't worth transcribing because the beast just turns and runs in the middle when some brain-damaged jackass runs out of the woods, screaming "MY SWORD! GIMME MY SWORD". I assure you, once again, I am making none of this up.

quote:

"Please!" it howled. "No kill! No kill!"

"Then let go of the sword! Now!"

The thing slowly, reluctantly, released its grip. Richard was on his back, the putrid-smelling creature on his chest. It went limp against him.

"Please, no kill me," it repeated in a whimper.

Richard untangled himself from the disgusting creature, laying it on its back. He put the point of the sword hard against its chest. Its yellow eyes went wide. The anger from the sword, which had somehow seemed confused and lost, at last charged into him.

"If I even think you're about to do something I don't like"�Richard jabbed� "I'll push. Understand?" It nodded vigorously. Richard leaned closer. "Where did your friend go?"

"Friend?"

"That big thing that almost had me before you did!"

"The Calthrop. Not friend," it whined. "Lucky man. Calthrop kills at night. Was waiting till night. To kill you. It has power in the night. Lucky man."

"I don't believe you! You were with it."

"No," it winced. "I only followed. Till it kills you."

"Why?"

Bulging eyes went to the sword. "My sword. Gimme. Please?"

"No!"

The creature is Samuel, and he serves Shota, which is good, because it means we're suddenly back on the track labeled "plot". Somehow in the middle of all this, Shota grabbed Kahlan, and so literally every possible card Richard could have for going to see the witch woman is being played at once.

Samuel is pretty much Gollum with the serial numbers filed off, incidentally.

quote:

"If you take me there, to your mistress, and if the pretty lady is all right, I won't kill you." Richard put tension to the rope to let Samuel know who was in charge, then put away the sword. "Here, you carry the pretty lady's pack."

Samuel snatched the pack out of Richard's hands. "Mine! Gimme!" Big hands started rummaging through it.

Richard gave a sharp tug on the rope. "That doesn't belong to you. Keep your hands out of it!"

Bulging yellow eyes filled with hate looked up at him. "When Mistress kills you, then Samuel eats you."

"If I don't eat you first," Richard sneered. "I'm pretty hungry. Maybe I'll have a little Samuel stew along the way?"

The look of hate changed to a look of wide, yellow-eyed terror. "Please! No kill me! Samuel take you to Mistress, to pretty lady. Promise." He put the pack to his shoulder and took a few steps, until he ran out of slack. "Follow Samuel. Hurry," he said, wanting to prove his worth alive. "No cook Samuel, please," he muttered over and over as they went back down the trail.

Long arms nearly reached the ground as Samuel walked along in an odd waddle, muttering over and over that he didn't want to be cooked. Short, dark pants held up with straps were all he wore. His feet were as disproportionately large as his hands and arms. His belly was round and full, with what, Richard could only wonder. There was no hair on him anywhere, and his skin looked as if it hadn't been in the sunlight in years. From time to time, Samuel would snatch up a stick, or a rock, and say "Mine! Gimme!" to no one in particular, only to soon lose interest and drop his latest find.

Long story short Shota lives in what is rather simply The Worst Neighborhood, and when Richard arrives, Kahlan is covered in snakes and Zedd gets clowned on by the witch woman. It's not really Zedd, but a test: when Richard tries to shield her from 'wizard fire', he wins her over. We, uh. We aren't told a lot of this yet, but Shota is effectively loving invincible. From the poo poo I remember off the top of my head:
- She is a sorceress of no small power.
- She is also a witch-woman, which is an entirely different thing and basically translates to "near-omnipotent oracular powers".
- She can legitimately transform herself. Not an illusion, not a hoax, not an imaginary costume: straight up become other shapes and beings. I think 99% of the time she does this, she turns into someone's mother. (I'm not kidding. She disguises herself as Richard's mother at her introduction.)
- She can still make illusions anyway because why the gently caress not. (See: Holo-Zedd.)
- She will kill you later.

quote:

"Richard," she touched a finger to her chin, thinking, "you come here thinking me evil, didn't you? Even though you knew nothing of me, you were ready to bring harm to me, based on what you invented in your head. You have committed to belief that which you have heard from others." There was no malice in her voice. "People who are jealous or afraid say these things. People also say that to use fire is wrong, and that those who use fire are evil. Does that make it true? People say the old wizard is evil, and that people die because of him. Does that make it true? Some of the Mud People say you brought death to their village. Does that make it true, because fools say it is so?"

"What kind of person would try to make me think she was my dead mother?" he asked bitterly.

Shota looked genuinely hurt. "Do you not love your mother?"

"Of course."

"What greater gift could anyone give, than the return of a passed loved one? Did it not give you joy to see your mother again? Did I ask for anything in return? Did I demand payment? For a moment, I gave you something beautiful, pure, a living memory of your love for your mother, and hers for you, at a cost to myself you could never fathom, and you see this, too, as evil? And in payment, you would think to take my head off with your sword?"

Richard swallowed hard, but didn't answer. He looked away from her eyes, feeling suddenly, unexpectedly, ashamed.

No really. She's very good at turning into people's mothers, right down to the tone.

quote:

"I guess a formal introduction is in order. Richard, may I introduce Samuel, your predecessor. The former Seeker."

Richard looked down, wide-eyed, speechless, to the companion.

"My sword! Gimme!" Samuel started to reach out. Shota spoke his name in caution without taking her gaze from Richard, and the little creature instantly withdrew his arms, nuzzling back against her hip. "My sword," he complained to himself in a low voice.

"Why does he look like that?" Richard asked cautiously, afraid of the answer.

"You really don't know, do you?" Shota lifted an eyebrow as she studied his face. Her sad smile returned. "The magic. Did the wizard not warn you?"

Richard shook his head slowly, unable to form words. His tongue stuck to the roof of his mouth.

"Well, I suggest you have a talk with him."

He forced himself to speak, but barely. "You mean, the magic will do this to me?"

"I'm sorry, Richard, I can't answer that." She gave a heavy sigh. "One of my talents is that I have vision for the flow of time, the way events flow into the future. But this is a type of magic, wizard's magic, that I cannot see; I am blind to it. I can't see how it flows forward." She paused, and continued. "Samuel was the last Seeker. He came here many years back, desperate for help. But I could do nothing for him, other than take pity on him. Then the old wizard came, suddenly, one day, and took the sword." She lifted an eyebrow meaningfully. "It was a very unpleasant experience�for both of us. I'm afraid I must admit I do not think kindly of the old wizard." Her face softened again. "To this day, Samuel thinks of the Sword of Truth as his. But I know better. The wizards, for all ages, are the caretakers of the sword, and therein its magic, and only assign it to mere Seekers for a time."

Spoiler alert: Richard is going to find a way to avoid this curse and it is monstrous.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 06:56

TheSmilingJackal: Apr 30, 2007; Don't worry, it's a very heavy feather.

DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:

Spoiler alert: Richard is going to find a way to avoid this curse and it is monstrous.

Really? Huh. I remember that Sam got cursed because the sword was taken from him, so Richard isn't cursed because he never loses the sword. :shrug:

As for the dragon thing, that did always confuse me. The people of the Westlands have only been there for a generation, why world so much of the knowledge be myth and legend? Hell, Dick's dad totes is from the Midlands and knows all about magic, having lived there before the boundary went up and all.

Conversations really should have much less ambiguity when many of the people have direct knowledge of what the gently caress they are taking about.

Westland kid 1: Dragon's are really real!
Westland kid 2: Nu-uh!
WK1: Dad! WK2 said dragon's aren't real!
Dad: That's cuz he never had to shovel the poo poo of some rich nobles's grey dragon pet. Which I have. And can tell you about in lenth.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 08:00

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

There's that fire thing again. Man, he is just pleased as punch with that little metaphor, isn't he?

# ? Nov 17, 2014 08:17

Bendigeidfran: Dec 17, 2013; Wait a minute...

Outside of the eye-rollingly "Wake Up Sheeple" nonsense that Shota went on about, she does bring up that wizard magic is unfathomable to her. Does this ever go anywhere? With witch/"nature" magic opposing wizard/"arbitrary bullshit" magic. Vague environmentalism would be better than any of the other themes, at least.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 16:05

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

Bendigeidfran posted:

Outside of the eye-rollingly "Wake Up Sheeple" nonsense that Shota went on about, she does bring up that wizard magic is unfathomable to her. Does this ever go anywhere? With witch/"nature" magic opposing wizard/"arbitrary bullshit" magic. Vague environmentalism would be better than any of the other themes, at least.

I guess the second book deals with it, though as always the primary purpose is to reinforce that man-magic is way more important than woman-magic.

In fact the overwhelming majority of woman-magic in this series exists EXPLICITLY to nurture man-magic. That's its stated purpose and literally the only thing it is used for, and any woman who doesn't do so is COMICALLY, IRREVOCABLY EVIL.

I Love You! fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Nov 17, 2014

# ? Nov 17, 2014 17:30

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

Mostly the "rules" of magic don't matter, even the male/female dichotomy. Magic's gonna do what the gently caress ever to make the plot do what Goodkind wants at the time. The most important divide is Additive/Subtractive, but as pointed out much earlier in the thread, that axis as-explained doesn't make much sense and likewise isn't exploited consistently when it drives the plot.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 18:12

Pimpmust: Oct 1, 2008

"Oh, they think Robert Jordan's magic system is misogynistic? I'll show them, I'll show them all! :shepface:

" - Possibly a real Goodkind quote... ???

The writing in this book started out... okayish (compared to say, noted Nobel Literature Prize winner Kevin J. Anderson) but this is some real dreck level of writing.

Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Nov 17, 2014

# ? Nov 17, 2014 18:19

SavageMessiah: Jan 28, 2009; Emotionally drained and spookified; Toilet Rascal

quote:

A creature of snarl and snap.

This made me LOL for some reason. Goodkiiiind :argh:

# ? Nov 17, 2014 20:28

Elfface: Nov 14, 2010; Da-na-na-na-na-na-na
IRON JONAH

These really are worse than I remember.

I mostly remember wondering exactly why it is confessors can't have sex for love though.

I mean, we already know if they lose control it goes off and then whoever they're touching is their mind-slave, but we also know it has a cooldown, so why can't they just discharge into a rock, or someone they've already used their power on, and then go at it before they've recharged?

And yeah, Richard really is a dick. A better author may have actually written something about a guy who prophecy says is in the right but is also kind of an rear end in a top hat, but nope we're supposed to agree with everything he says and does.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 21:02

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

Elfface posted:

These really are worse than I remember.

I mostly remember wondering exactly why it is confessors can't have sex for love though.

I mean, we already know if they lose control it goes off and then whoever they're touching is their mind-slave, but we also know it has a cooldown, so why can't they just discharge into a rock, or someone they've already used their power on, and then go at it before they've recharged?

And yeah, Richard really is a dick. A better author may have actually written something about a guy who prophecy says is in the right but is also kind of an rear end in a top hat, but nope we're supposed to agree with everything he says and does.

Or just wear a rubber.

But yeah you'd think they'd gently caress like rabbits after every trial.

# ? Nov 17, 2014 21:03

Ham Equity: Apr 16, 2013; The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.; Grimey Drawer

God, forgot so much about this book.

"Now, Richard, just because I made myself look like your dead mother in order to gently caress with you, you got upset? You should be ashamed of yourself. Smother those irrational emotions, and think about it like a robot would! A=A after all!"

# ? Nov 17, 2014 22:15

Glukeose: Jun 6, 2014

Thanatosian posted:

God, forgot so much about this book.

"Now, Richard, just because I made myself look like your dead mother in order to gently caress with you, you got upset? You should be ashamed of yourself. Smother those irrational emotions, and think about it like a robot would! A=A after all!"

Smother those irrational emotions, and let pure, unadulterated self-righteous anger direct your actions instead!

# ? Nov 18, 2014 04:49

Militant Lesbian: Oct 3, 2002

I feel like we are overlooking an important part of the whole "ban fire" thing; the villains trying to outlaw fire are all strawmen - of course they're going to hate fire.

# ? Nov 18, 2014 17:42

Dr.Magnificent: Dec 24, 2007; Comes with hands on care.; Fun Shoe

Elfface posted:

These really are worse than I remember.

I mostly remember wondering exactly why it is confessors can't have sex for love though.

I mean, we already know if they lose control it goes off and then whoever they're touching is their mind-slave, but we also know it has a cooldown, so why can't they just discharge into a rock, or someone they've already used their power on, and then go at it before they've recharged?

And yeah, Richard really is a dick. A better author may have actually written something about a guy who prophecy says is in the right but is also kind of an rear end in a top hat, but nope we're supposed to agree with everything he says and does.

There is a conversation between Richard and Kahlan that addresses the cooldown part. I have no idea if we passed it over or not, but essentially, Kahlan's powers have such a low cooldown that it still wouldn't be feasible. But don't worry, Dick will rules lawyer his way out of it. That's his superpower.

# ? Nov 19, 2014 01:30

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

Dr.Magnificent posted:

There is a conversation between Richard and Kahlan that addresses the cooldown part. I have no idea if we passed it over or not, but essentially, Kahlan's powers have such a low cooldown that it still wouldn't be feasible. But don't worry, Dick will rules lawyer his way out of it. That's his superpower.

I think her "cooldown" time is still given as, like, hours. Which I can believe Goodkind would think is not enough time for a really manly man to finish the job. Because the manliest thing one can do with sex is turn it into an overlong chore.

(EDIT: Here we go. A place for all your hilarious Sword of Truth needs!)

That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Nov 19, 2014

# ? Nov 19, 2014 01:37

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

I think we haven't passed over it because I think she's still hiding the nature of her power from him.

# ? Nov 19, 2014 01:37

Froghammer: Sep 8, 2012; Khajit has wares
if you have coin

HotCanadianChick posted:

I feel like we are overlooking an important part of the whole "ban fire" thing; the villains trying to outlaw fire are all strawmen - of course they're going to hate fire.

You motherfucker

# ? Nov 19, 2014 01:43

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 23:55

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

HotCanadianChick posted:

I feel like we are overlooking an important part of the whole "ban fire" thing; the villains trying to outlaw fire are all strawmen - of course they're going to hate fire.

Dude, I take back anything bad I ever said about you or to you in the new car thread.

# ? Nov 19, 2014 02:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Let's Read the Sword of Truth books! (Or not. Can we not?)

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