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Gabriel Pope posted:I don't know what he means by "just enjoying being a student" either, seeing that he's not being a student in any sense, but he is 1) working and 2) committed to saving most of his earnings towards school. So regardless of his intentions, he is in fact saving up for school during his time off, which he (in all likelihood rightfully) regards as being a better idea than taking out loans to pay for the kind of education his peers are getting paid for by their parents. Which his parents also want him to get, but not enough to provide any help beyond a very minor subsidy for his living expenses ($200 rent sounds like a sweet deal until you consider that for $300 combined rent+utilities [Idaho] he could probably get a room in a house with much better roomates.) I wasn't aware of how cheap rent got in his area. $200 is nominal around here, and I actually paid my parents $200 for rent while I lived at home. vv But yes, I agree that it's possible that his parents are just shitbags. Hargrimm posted:I think the key is here: melon cat posted:That's definitely what it sounds like, and his parents need a reality check. I experienced similar pressure from my parents in the years leading up to undergrad. I have no idea how any of our parents expected us to pay off tuition while earning an impressive $7.25/hour at my part-time job. Right, that part is definitely weird. It's what made me think that potentially we're getting a warped view. Like, were they just throwing out random numbers with no idea how much he makes/what things cost? Or his bills? Because that's not in line at all with parents that would teach their child to save their Christmas money that was specifically earred for going out to movies. Either way, I definitely think he needs to sit down with his parents and go through the exact numbers of what they expect and what is possible.
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# ? Nov 13, 2014 21:29 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 14:48 |
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This is interesting. Is there another graph with mean/median 25ish college grad earnings and how many hours it would take to pay off an average year's tuition?
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# ? Nov 13, 2014 21:32 |
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Aagar posted:"Guarantee my principal, and 1% return daily? This couldn't possibly be a scam. Look! They have a website that updates daily with all the money I'm making. Time to put in all of my retirement money and the kids' college fund..." If I were trying to scam people, I'd probably end up dreaming up something overly complicated that wouldn't convince people. I'd be convinced they could easily detect the scam. However, it appears that the best way is to just straight up make wildly improbably promises and people will throw money at you. Guaranteed return! Zero risk! It's stupifying that people fall for this stuff over and over. Edit: Based on their advertising strategies, it appears that it really is this easy: Script from one of their animated commercials posted:A two-minute animation distributed by Secure depicts a chance meeting between two friends stuck in traffic on a highway. Pale-faced Ben, driving a beat-up brown subcompact with a dirty windshield, pulls up beside his tanned friend Nick. quote:David Kane, a Houston oil industry technical support manager, says he found his way to Secure because he had stopped trusting bankers and brokers after the 2008 financial crisis. Kane, a single father raising three teenage boys, invested $2,500 in Secure in July 2013. His account grew to more than $4,000 by February 2014, according to his online statements. Thesaurus fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Nov 13, 2014 |
# ? Nov 13, 2014 23:41 |
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Thesaurus posted:If I were trying to scam people, I'd probably end up dreaming up something overly complicated that wouldn't convince people. I'd be convinced they could easily detect the scam. However, it appears that the best way is to just straight up make wildly improbably promises and people will throw money at you. Folly posted:I wonder if the scammers chose Forex specifically so their victims would self-select. It's been done before. That's exactly what the article in this post is saying, it's made to be absurd as possible because it means the only people who fall for it are very gullible and easily convinced people who will hand over their money with minimal effort. If it was made to be slightly plausible they end up wasting time on alot of people who'll never fall for it. It's why those "3 quick tricks to making millions on binary options!" videos go for like 20 minutes until they give you any details, if someone sits there and watches it for 20 minutes, they're nearly guaranteed to be caught hook, line and sinker, but anyone who's not convinced will have closed it ages ago.
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# ? Nov 13, 2014 23:55 |
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Ponzi scheme obviously. Forex is great for that because you can't actually verify that you own anything. Just made up numbers. I bet you could run a stats analysis on the posted results and see it fail.
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# ? Nov 13, 2014 23:55 |
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cowofwar posted:Ponzi scheme obviously. Forex is great for that because you can't actually verify that you own anything. Just made up numbers. I bet you could run a stats analysis on the posted results and see it fail. I'm pretty sure I could run basic common sense on those numbers and see it fail.
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 00:01 |
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Rurutia posted:Right, that part is definitely weird. It's what made me think that potentially we're getting a warped view. Like, were they just throwing out random numbers with no idea how much he makes/what things cost? Or his bills? Because that's not in line at all with parents that would teach their child to save their Christmas money that was specifically earred for going out to movies. Either way, I definitely think he needs to sit down with his parents and go through the exact numbers of what they expect and what is possible. It does have an air of keeping up with the neighbours as well as his parents possibly being out of touch with reality. Lots of people seem to think that the work isn't changing around them. I think what you've suggested is how he should address it. While he seems like a whiney bitch stuck working at McD's he has identified a genuine problem of having way too much debt accumulated by studying. Although the graph above does point out an advantage to doing a two year course. Much more affordable and in most cases it's enough to get a job (unless you're a dickhead who everyone hates).
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 00:01 |
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On the positive side of things, at least these scams are generating business for fake-testimonial actors. They paid one of those guys a whole $4.
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 00:02 |
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Thesaurus posted:On the positive side of things, at least these scams are generating business for fake-testimonial actors. They paid one of those guys a whole $4. That's $4 more than he made acting in the previous year.
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 00:04 |
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Rudager posted:That's exactly what the article in this post is saying, it's made to be absurd as possible because it means the only people who fall for it are very gullible and easily convinced people who will hand over their money with minimal effort. If it was made to be slightly plausible they end up wasting time on alot of people who'll never fall for it. See, stuff like that is kinda elegant in it's own ineloquent way. It probably also prevents knowledgeable people from reporting the scam as quickly, because they don't see it as dangerous enough to bother.
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 00:20 |
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Folly posted:I wonder if the scammers chose Forex specifically so their victims would self-select. It's been done before. That article makes a lot of sense. It helps explain the whole "1% daily interest that can't be compounded" that I was having trouble with. It's an extra layer of WTF (to whittle down respondents) while at the same time keeping the Ponzi scheme managable for the times they had to pay out (1% compounded daily on that $60K US would be $1.2M after 10 months).
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 00:54 |
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Why do doctors seem like the dumbest investors on planet earth? I mean, I know, it's because they're the most highly compensated people with no business or financial experience, and you only ever hear about the whoppers. You don't hear about the ones that invest in a reputable PE hedge fund and quietly make 15-20% per year. I have a doctor friend that was telling me about her financial planner. I asked what he had told her to help her out. She couldn't really answer. If I was her advisor the first thing I'd tell her to do is get the hell out of Philadelphia with its 4% wage tax. That's probably costing her more than $10k per year. But, you know, you can't wrap that and charge 1%, so what the gently caress does he care?
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 02:19 |
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Blackjack2000 posted:Why do doctors seem like the dumbest investors on planet earth? Doctor is one of those professions where you're suppose to appear like an expert at all times or risk losing business. I imagine quite a few buy into their own hype. It could be worse, though. Just imagine if their profession was built around services like being able to help people avoid scams like that. Folly fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Nov 14, 2014 |
# ? Nov 14, 2014 03:23 |
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Blackjack2000 posted:Why do doctors seem like the dumbest investors on planet earth? They go through so much school and are in so much debt when they're done, they're sort of numb to money. It's a human response to being $250k in debt. And then they get paid so much more money than they've ever made, so they have no frame of reference, and again money means very little. Same way rich kids don't get money. On top of that they've just spent the better part of a decade doing nothing but studying, working, and binge drinking to relieve stress, so their financial knowledge is basically none. They're also naturally competitive people, generally, and the Joneses they try to keep up with are also doctors making bank. I've been talking to my sister in med school for the last three years about sitting down with me to talk about investing and finances when she starts residency and starts getting paid. I warned her not to become one of those stereotype doctors. I'm also trying to convince her and her boyfriend to go work in the sticks for a few years, because doctors actually get paid more to go to like Montana and poo poo, because no one wants to live there. So you get a double bonus: extra money, and super low cost of living. Plough that into savings for a few years, pay down student loans, get financially healthy in no time.
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 03:40 |
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CelestialScribe posted:It isn't just my friends. The average Australian thinks this way. Buying an investment property is socially seen as an excellent first move before you even buy a place for yourself. I'm Australian...and, I have to agree. It's negative gearing bruz. Negative gearing. It's always funny seeing some 'young property mogul' story on sunrise, atleast Koshy has an idea. Also: http://thingsboganslike.com/2010/02/15/85-residential-property-investment/
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 06:16 |
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Hasn't Australia been on one of the longest uninterrupted economic growth cycles ever? I remember reading you guys haven't had a recession in forever.
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 13:27 |
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Blackjack2000 posted:Why do doctors seem like the dumbest investors on planet earth? As a financial planner/advisor, doctors and engineers are the two toughest clients to work with. Rarely do they ever follow advice, because even though they know next to nothing about money, they still have the "smartest guy in the room" syndrome.
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 16:10 |
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Found their "business presentation" those graphics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkBjbnvnrBk
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 16:16 |
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nickutz posted:As a financial planner/advisor, doctors and engineers are the two toughest clients to work with. Rarely do they ever follow advice, because even though they know next to nothing about money, they still have the "smartest guy in the room" syndrome. As an engineer, I cosign this. The financial wisdom espoused by my old rear end coworkers is horrific. One guy has 100% of his 401k in company stock, probably a couple mil at this point, and I want to cry. He's done great the last two years, but gently caress man. Then there's literally holds cash in a vault guy. And maybe 10% actually plan for retirement, most just have blinders on and only think about work. It's crazy.
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 18:19 |
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District Selectman posted:As an engineer, I cosign this. The financial wisdom espoused by my old rear end coworkers is horrific. One guy has 100% of his 401k in company stock, probably a couple mil at this point, and I want to cry. He's done great the last two years, but gently caress man. Then there's literally holds cash in a vault guy. And maybe 10% actually plan for retirement, most just have blinders on and only think about work. It's crazy. The two other engineers running their businesses in my office both have large amounts of property, and one has investments. They can both easily survive retirement or selling properties to cash out for a profit. The thing I've found more difficult is the oldest engineer won't change his business so that it'll continue after he retires. His section of the business will collapse when he retires. Some of the oldest engineering technicians probably won't have much in savings at all, and they will find their income disappears when he retires. My youngest employee did say she would read the four pillars over the Christmas break so that's a good start as her and her husband will at least start thinking about their future.
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# ? Nov 14, 2014 21:03 |
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nickutz posted:As a financial planner/advisor, doctors and engineers are the two toughest clients to work with. Rarely do they ever follow advice, because even though they know next to nothing about money, they still have the "smartest guy in the room" syndrome. melon cat fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Nov 15, 2014 |
# ? Nov 14, 2014 21:07 |
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nickutz posted:As a financial planner/advisor, doctors and engineers are the two toughest clients to work with. Rarely do they ever follow advice, because even though they know next to nothing about money, they still have the "smartest guy in the room" syndrome. Engineers are the worst in investing too. One clients shows up to account performance reviews with worthless spreadsheets because he doesn't know anything about investing or the various indices he's comparing the performance of his assets to. So every meeting begins with the account exec tap dancing around how he knows poo poo about the market. Another had four accounts with us, two trusts and two IRAs. He retired and decided to stop our management for one of each. We strongly suspect this is because he's going to sit at home all day and F5 the brokerage accounts we manage so he can copy our trades. Guy should just give us our fee and enjoy his retirement, because what he's saving on management fees doesn't even add up to post-tax minimum wage.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 00:09 |
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It came from reddit, but not directly from r/personalfinance(this was linked in a long thread about dumb money things other people did).http://www.reddit.com/r/TalesFromRetail/comments/20egsr/maam_your_credit_card_is_not_free_money/cg2hzhq posted:It's surprisingly common for people to completely fail to grasp the idea of credit and/or debit. melon cat posted:Add Accountants to that list. Doctors and Engineers can have some pretty... interesting bank account statements, but Accountants are absolutely the worst at managing money. They seem to think "I'm an Accountant. Of course I'm good with money", even though their jobs have very ittle to do with actually handling money of any sort.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 00:52 |
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RommelMcDonald posted:Engineers are the worst in investing too. I want to pull my hair out when clients compare their portfolio with us to the S&P 500. Sorry we only gained you 24% last year instead of 36%. Sir you're 65 years old and staring retirement in the face, if I put you in a 100% S&P 500 fund I'll lose my license when you file a complaint to my broker-dealer.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 01:31 |
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A couple comments on the Ask a Manager blog in regards to tithing (in the context of a job applicant being required to provide a budget that included tithing):quote:
quote:My husband has a coworker that shared a story with him about why he switched to his current church. His old church had called him up and asked him why he wasn’t giving a full 10%. When he asked how the church would know he WASN’T giving that, the church rep recited his annual salary and some other very personal information that he definitely never gave to them. When he asked them how on earth they were able to get that information, they deflected the question and started in on how he wasn’t serving God unless he was tithing a full 10% from gross. I hope this guy did more than just switch churches over this, like maybe open criminal proceedings or something.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 02:36 |
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HelloIAmYourHeart posted:A couple comments on the Ask a Manager blog in regards to tithing (in the context of a job applicant being required to provide a budget that included tithing): Some churches are like the NSA with tithing. I visited a local mega church for the first time and tossed a check into donation plate even though I knew pretty fast it wasn't a good fit for me. A week later they send me a letter asking how I enjoyed the service and whatever. They must scan checks into OCR software and compare names against member roles.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 02:45 |
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RommelMcDonald posted:Engineers are the worst in investing too. How is having any actively managed accounts good with money for 99 percent of people?
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 03:24 |
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So, my mom is terrible with money. Twice in the past few years she has been admitted to the hospital with unexplained dementia. We're talking flat out crazy - she had no idea where she was, when she was, nothing. Both times this would last for more than 24 hours. The last time I had to admit her to the psych unit for a couple of weeks. I have always known my mother is bad with money. She lives paycheck to paycheck and is a 58 year old woman with no savings, no retirement, nothing. When she was in the hospital this last time she was split from my stepfather, so my sisters and I were trying to handle things. Also, when she went in to her period of dementia she was driving her car and was picked up by the police and the car was towed. My sisters kept asking me what to do about it and I just said, nothing, she doesn't need it and I'm not paying to get it out. At this time we found out that she was 4 payments behind to Honda. Her car payments were $758/month. On a 2010 Honda Accord. Financed at 7 years. Doing the math puts her at paying more than $60k for this stupid car. And this was a loan that was cosigned by my stepfather, and when they separated and she kept getting behind, they would call him and he would call her and be mad. Totally understandable. It's been almost exactly one year since she got out of the hospital and she just told me last month that she's caught up on car payments. All this to come to this story: the morning after Halloween she was hit by a drunk driver. She was parked at a stop sign and he came blowing through in an SUV, hit 3 other cars and ended up with his SUV upside down on top of her car. She had to be cut out of the car and pulled through the passenger side. Thankfully, she was ok. She went to the ER and had a cat scan and was told to take a few days off work, but other than that, no injuries. So we talk about how this is obviously this guy's fault - he went to jail, he had insurance, etc. My mom asked me to explain gap insurance to her, which she had thank GOD. I guess her understanding of gap insurance was that somehow it would allow for her to get money above the cost of her loan? I was just like, look at this as a serious blessing, now you are out of that terrible loan. Go get a cheap used car and enjoy your much easier life without an insane car payment! She refuses to listen, of course. She goes to see a car dealer before she even calls her insurance. He tells her he can put her in a great low mileage car for $7k down. WTF. She refuses to listen to me about this, but also there's no way anyone is giving her $7k. She also refuses to have someone cosign on a car for her again, and when she tells me this she sounds all pissy and offended, like how dare my stepfather bitch at her about being late on the car payments?? I tell her again that she just needs to get a cheap car and be thankful that this loan is off her shoulders. I called her this week to check in. Her rental car from the other guy's insurance is about to run out and she still hasn't gotten another car. She just can't believe that she hasn't gotten any money from the insurance to get a new car. She starts talking about pain and suffering and lost wages. I tell her to be patient, her insurance has a lawyer and things will be taken care of, but it's not going to happen immediately. She tells me she got a lawyer, SHE DIDN'T WANT TO but she just has to because this is ruining her life. So, she's gotten a personal injury lawyer. This is ridiculous. I know she knows it is ridiculous because every other legal issue she has, she comes running to us because my husband is a lawyer. She knew what we would say. So tomorrow she's going to shop for a car. With the $1500 loan she got from her lawyer that will be repaid when she gets her settlement. All I can say is thank gently caress she is back with my stepdad because I am not going to take care of her broke rear end the next time she loses it.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 03:49 |
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RheaConfused posted:Cray Cray Mom Is the "dementia" because of pills/alcohol/drugs?
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 04:44 |
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EugeneJ posted:Is the "dementia" because of pills/alcohol/drugs? Sadly, no. I wish it were that easy. I know because I have her medical POA and had her tested for every possible thing. She does have a past hx of narcotics abuse, but had been monitored and clean for several years. The first episode only lasted about 24hrs and she did have a UTI, so they wrote it off as perhaps UTI related septicemia that's common with patients much older than my mom (she was 56 at the time). The second time it lasted for 3 days and we pretty solidly determined it was psych related. She's on meds now and actually in therapy and taking care of things like she should, so hopeful it won't happen again. It sucked because, due to her history, my whole family wrote it off as drug use. When that wasn't the answer it was hard for them to accept.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 05:14 |
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I'm pretty sure my sister and brother in law give 10% to their church. They also donate a lot of time helping with a lot of activities. I think the thing that really disappoints me is that the church has treated them like poo poo with internal politics. The reason for this treatment is because they believe the church should be doing more to help the poor. I guess the church is good with money but bad at being good.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 06:04 |
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Devian666 posted:I'm pretty sure my sister and brother in law give 10% to their church. They also donate a lot of time helping with a lot of activities. I think the thing that really disappoints me is that the church has treated them like poo poo with internal politics. The reason for this treatment is because they believe the church should be doing more to help the poor. I guess the church is good with money but bad at being good. If they also save a nice but unambitious 15% towards retirement, their church tithes are costing them basically a decade where they wouldn't need to be working and could instead retire and devote their energies full-time towards volunteering if they so chose. If they're saving less than that, it could be the difference between retiring and being a Walmart greeter.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 06:39 |
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TLG James posted:How is having any actively managed accounts good with money for 99 percent of people? If they were any good at it, it wouldn't be such an easy sell for our account execs.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 09:19 |
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HelloIAmYourHeart posted:A couple comments on the Ask a Manager blog in regards to tithing (in the context of a job applicant being required to provide a budget that included tithing): The Mormon church requires similar tithings, but those are used to improve the cash flow of the church's for-profit businesses.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 10:47 |
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baquerd posted:If they also save a nice but unambitious 15% towards retirement, their church tithes are costing them basically a decade where they wouldn't need to be working and could instead retire and devote their energies full-time towards volunteering if they so chose. If they're saving less than that, it could be the difference between retiring and being a Walmart greeter. Well my sister and brother in law pretty well have no retirement savings and they're in their late 50's now. They've spent there life earning low or in the case of my sister is that she believes she should not work and raise children instead. They will still have a mortgage to pay off until they are probably 80 years old. To them everyone else in the family is rich but we actually aren't. We just don't make poor decisions. Really they've done the full time volunteering and donating money that they couldn't afford to donate. I'm not going to say going to church is bad with money as for most people it isn't. However when God destroys all of the churches in the city with an earthquake maybe it's time to listen to him.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 12:17 |
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First thing I thought too, although he's actually an actuary. Either way, I told myself I was done with that thread, but now I'm reading it again and happy to see it's descended back into madness where it belongs.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 18:52 |
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All about NZ student loans. They are going up on average. The median is probably because interest isn't charged so long as people stay in the country. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/63200446/Are-student-loans-bad-debt quote:The average loan at the end of June was over $19,000 - though the median was just over $13,300. At that rate, average balances of $20,000 or more appear likely to become the norm. Of course it wouldn't be complete with an accountant being serious until the punchline. He intends to pay off his son's loan then expect him to buy a house in an inflated market with high mortgage payments. quote:Another parent, an accountant at a major listed corporate who did not want to be named, said he planned to do the same.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 19:57 |
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TLG James posted:How is having any actively managed accounts good with money for 99 percent of people? Because 99% of people don't have any knowledge of investing. And they can't stomach the volatility of having all their money in an index fund which everyone here recommends.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 20:03 |
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Devian666 posted:Of course it wouldn't be complete with an accountant being serious until the punchline. He intends to pay off his son's loan then expect him to buy a house in an inflated market with high mortgage payments. That's not just accountants, that's just people over fifty having no concept of how hard it is buy a house in Auckland these days.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 21:39 |
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# ? Jun 6, 2024 14:48 |
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People over 50 are quite disconnected from reality at the moment. There's nothing like putting down a 20% deposit on a $600,000 (or more) basic house. I bought a new build in Wellington for $430,000 and even though it is my first home I still put down 20%. That was painful.
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# ? Nov 15, 2014 22:34 |