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I'm all for throwing all limitations like "out of time frame" and "didn't technically exist" out the window if the unit is cool. It's a drat video game. Someone sketched a cool prototype idea somewhere that doesn't require breaking the laws of physics, throw it in. If it would improve the balance by giving one side a cool perk when they were at a marked disadvantage, even more so. We need more Chimeras and less "This tank is identical to the previous model but has a new FCS or the commander got glasses so it's got 5% more accuracy and that's it".
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Nov 10, 2014 21:23
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:I'm all for throwing all limitations like "out of time frame" and "didn't technically exist" out the window if the unit is cool. It's a drat video game. Someone sketched a cool prototype idea somewhere that doesn't require breaking the laws of physics, throw it in. If it would improve the balance by giving one side a cool perk when they were at a marked disadvantage, even more so. I'm assuming the reason time frame is controversial is becasue that's the default excuse used to not give cool or useful units to other factions.
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Nov 10, 2014 21:27
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While I agree with the opinion that prototypes shouldn't be a required choice for the nations where available (think the BMPT), their limitations on units got real dumb when they advanced the time frame 10 years past the actual shelf life of the cold war. They threw away the opportunity to add cool things like the Black Eagle, Comanche, etc, sticking to a reality that doesn't much sense in their alternate timeline. Basically it's a what if without the stuff that makes that concept really fun. Basically what Yacht said in a sense, if the unit could fit within the scope of the game and do something interesting, provide a balance feature, or be unique, the time frame shouldn't have mattered (within some reason, like the Rafale).
Mazz fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Nov 10, 2014 |
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Nov 10, 2014 21:31
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Yeah I don't mind adding in units just because they're cool either, it's just that it's so dumb that they keep saying one thing and doing another.
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Nov 10, 2014 23:53
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Honestly if they just wrote and committed to their alternate timeline it'd be a lot less frustrating than the sort of wishy-washy bullcrap they pull that makes every decision look somehow wrong headed in multiple directions. Never stop complaining about Javelins.
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Nov 11, 2014 00:29
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Black Eagle can suck a dick. None of its components were proven to even work, it was pretty much all just advertising poo poo. Since there STILL isnt a tank that mounts an AA radar on it just for shits and giggles, even if the USSR DID continue to exist, producing that tank would gently caress it over enough that it wouldnt exist for long. T80UM2? More like "T80UM-P-U(what a stinker!) Granted BLUFOR tanks were inferior for W:EE and ALB, then when they were on top in RD it was suddenly necessary to nerf 'em down from RL specs. Shameful.
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Nov 11, 2014 00:45
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Is it cool/necessary? Add it. No other questions, just add what will make the game better. Also don't let madmat say a word about infantry units.
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Nov 11, 2014 01:09
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xthetenth posted:Also don't let madmat say a word about units. xthetenth posted:Also don't let madmat say a word.
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Nov 11, 2014 01:10
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In wargame: airland battle I usually played with a couple of friends and we're getting back into wargame now, but I have NO idea how to make a deck that works like what i loved playing before. Usually I played as mixed Warsaw pact 75, with tons of east german regulars and reservists with cheap tanks and choppers, FJB in first generation hind gunships to seize cities and huge numbers of Polish Napalm bombers and cheap Migs for cluster bombing . It worked AMAZINGLY both on defense as long as there were buildings to grind the enemy down in and on the offense both alone (swarm like attacks covered by GRAD stuns and napalm) and together with my one or two friends usually playing high end Soviet, but I'm having trouble making anything like it now in the new system, and would love some help from you veterans.
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Nov 14, 2014 14:44
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Nuclear War posted:In wargame: airland battle I usually played with a couple of friends and we're getting back into wargame now, but I have NO idea how to make a deck that works like what i loved playing before. Usually I played as mixed Warsaw pact 75, with tons of east german regulars and reservists with cheap tanks and choppers, FJB in first generation hind gunships to seize cities and huge numbers of Polish Napalm bombers and cheap Migs for cluster bombing . It worked AMAZINGLY both on defense as long as there were buildings to grind the enemy down in and on the offense both alone (swarm like attacks covered by GRAD stuns and napalm) and together with my one or two friends usually playing high end Soviet, but I'm having trouble making anything like it now in the new system, and would love some help from you veterans. You kind of can't now, because of how a lot of things changed. Era restrictions give you a (fairly useless) AP bonus instead of availability and the fact thatcheap tanks are really much more dead-weight now. I've had some success with a playstyle like that using Chinese decks, though -- the Li Jian'90 in the Z-9 is fantastic for forward deployment, and you can pair them with some excellent AA helos for counter-rushing and forward air net coverage. You don't have the Napalm bombers of an ALB pact deck, but you've got rockets of all kinds for your supporting fire. And obviously waves of various infantries for pure coverage. It's been a while since I've played (basically waiting for the patches/DLC to come out and the game to stabilize at this point) but for the specific "get their first and hold the line while your high-tech team-mates spearhead" role you seem to be describing I have found the Chinese to be a lot of fun, if not necessarily "good" by an absolute standard.
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Nov 14, 2014 15:52
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I find motorized decks rather effective in this role. You have a mix of heliborne and land-based infantry as well as decent helicopters and light-ish tanks. NSWP and USSR are basically tied for best motorized deck on REDFOR (with NSWP having better infantry and USSR having better armor, helicopters and air), followed by Red Dragons and China national. RangerPL fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Nov 14, 2014 |
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Nov 14, 2014 16:14
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Hubis posted:You kind of can't now, because of how a lot of things changed. Era restrictions give you a (fairly useless) AP bonus instead of availability and the fact thatcheap tanks are really much more dead-weight now. I've had some success with a playstyle like that using Chinese decks, though -- the Li Jian'90 in the Z-9 is fantastic for forward deployment, and you can pair them with some excellent AA helos for counter-rushing and forward air net coverage. You don't have the Napalm bombers of an ALB pact deck, but you've got rockets of all kinds for your supporting fire. And obviously waves of various infantries for pure coverage. It's been a while since I've played (basically waiting for the patches/DLC to come out and the game to stabilize at this point) but for the specific "get their first and hold the line while your high-tech team-mates spearhead" role you seem to be describing I have found the Chinese to be a lot of fun, if not necessarily "good" by an absolute standard. I'll try and make a Chinese deck now then. Made a quick stab at making a Warzaw Pact deck like in the old days, haven't tried it out yet. First try at a Warzaw deck made for meatgrinder play: tYG1oKfblNBT7cpEUfblGa1MhDvUi0GJFoMSLQYnPJlueTLhDvUyKp6TxQbJ96kQqIIj3KJ8FDxNJf5IQm4LSE6UhCa1NajWLvETmC7BdkezdbZJ8k+SsQzEYuETKMi1acU=
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Nov 14, 2014 17:42
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TheFluff posted:Yeah I don't mind adding in units just because they're cool either, it's just that it's so dumb that they keep saying one thing and doing another. The core issue is that once you've thrown out 'historicity' as a reason for your rosters being the way they are, then there's no reason for the next factor not to be 'game balance' rather than coolness.
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Nov 14, 2014 18:12
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Alchenar posted:The core issue is that once you've thrown out 'historicity' as a reason for your rosters being the way they are, then there's no reason for the next factor not to be 'game balance' rather than coolness. I don't really agree. How does "historicity" have anything to do with balance other than possibly hinder it?
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Nov 14, 2014 18:37
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:I don't really agree. How does "historicity" have anything to do with balance other than possibly hinder it? MadMat™
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Nov 14, 2014 18:52
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Well today's unit of the day is the Strv 121 as predicted. Glad they found a loophole to their own stupid rule.
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Nov 14, 2014 20:39
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Well today's unit of the day is the Strv 121 as predicted. I think it was the balanced-focus marshalls who called this one outright. They said straight up and broke down how a heavy was essential, and thankfully Eugen conceded to their arguments.
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Nov 14, 2014 20:49
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Dandywalken posted:I think it was the balanced-focus marshalls who called this one outright. They said straight up and broke down how a heavy was essential, and thankfully Eugen conceded to their arguments. So uh, Heavy Tank for China when? Otherwise the Red Dragons are going to be absolutely poo poo outta luck as 2 T-90S are not going to cut it.
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Nov 15, 2014 07:34
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It's pretty sad how both Blue and Red Dragons are getting shafted because they don't have large fanbases for Eugen to appease. All the threads asking for BD buffs are run by USA players. Also, while we're talking about breaking rules, USA doesn't get an infantry TOW while Sweden gets this as an infantry weapon: 
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Nov 15, 2014 18:20
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It'd be so awesome if Eugen had actually used the coalitions idea to make a bunch of factions that could all be reasonably considered well-rounded without glaring capability gaps. That'd be super cool. But no, apparently having consistent rules is hard.
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Nov 15, 2014 19:28
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RangerPL posted:It's pretty sad how both Blue and Red Dragons are getting shafted because they don't have large fanbases for Eugen to appease. All the threads asking for BD buffs are run by USA players. Hahaha, holy poo poo, how the hell do they justify that internally?
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Nov 15, 2014 19:34
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Well they can add more new weapons but the east are a bit behind.
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Nov 15, 2014 21:38
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RangerPL posted:It's pretty sad how both Blue and Red Dragons are getting shafted because they don't have large fanbases for Eugen to appease. All the threads asking for BD buffs are run by USA players. Apparently South Korea has Metis-Ms in real life...
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Nov 15, 2014 22:37
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Generation Internet posted:Hahaha, holy poo poo, how the hell do they justify that internally? It comes as the AT weapon for a light infantry/mountain infantry squad (basically arctic rangers) that historically could tow the thing on a sled behind a pair of skiers. In winter, that is. In summer they probably didn't bring it for longer excursions on foot since including the wheeled carriage it weighs about 260 kg. Then the HEAT rounds weigh over 10 kg each... TheFluff fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 01:06
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RangerPL posted:It's pretty sad how both Blue and Red Dragons are getting shafted because they don't have large fanbases for Eugen to appease. All the threads asking for BD buffs are run by USA players. What the gently caress? The various excuses for the TOW thing I've heard are: * It's too heavy * It's too hard to animate * It's a "mounted weapon according to doctrine" * It's too powerful I'd be happier at this point if the official reason were: * gently caress you e: just hopped over onto the official forums and it seems neither BTR nor Graphic are still mods over there. I've been vaguely aware of some sort of major marshal massacre going on but jesus christ Mortabis fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 19:20
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I don't know why BTR quit, but Graphic basically told me that he's fed up with MadMat and doesn't see the point of taking time out of his day to moderate the forums if he's going to be ignored and condescended to by him. Shame, aside from Shifu (who is rarely around), Graphic was easily the least bad of all the mods. I don't think there's been a marshal massacre aside from Xerxes' ban, most of the good ones just left on their own. I don't blame them, apparently orcbuster is the only one Madmat listens to anymore. So if Norway looks suspiciously overmodeled in the DLC, you know why. RangerPL fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 20:53
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Mange Mite posted:Apparently South Korea has Metis-Ms in real life... Aquired due to Russia paying off outstanding debts in arms instead of cash. Not likely to happen in the Wargame TL.
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Nov 16, 2014 21:06
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IIRC they have a like battalion sized formation equipped with BMP-3 and T-80 for the same reason as well.
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Nov 16, 2014 22:19
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Magni posted:Aquired due to Russia paying off outstanding debts in arms instead of cash. Not likely to happen in the Wargame TL. TsarZiedonis posted:IIRC they have a like battalion sized formation equipped with BMP-3 and T-80 for the same reason as well. That's actually pretty funny.
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Nov 17, 2014 02:02
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That'd help Blue Dragons out pretty nicely actually.
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Nov 17, 2014 02:08
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TsarZiedonis posted:IIRC they have a like battalion sized formation equipped with BMP-3 and T-80 for the same reason as well. And to what I have heard, they're very happy with the kit as well! RangerPL posted:I don't know why BTR quit, but Graphic basically told me that he's fed up with MadMat and doesn't see the point of taking time out of his day to moderate the forums if he's going to be ignored and condescended to by him. To what I've been told, Drrty-D has also been banned for disagreeing with MM too much.
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Nov 17, 2014 02:59
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To really get into the spirit of the game, Madmat's just been role-playing as Stalin this entire time.
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Nov 17, 2014 03:08
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Mange Mite posted:That's actually pretty funny. 
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Nov 17, 2014 03:10
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Xerxes17 posted:And to what I have heard, they're very happy with the kit as well! I thought they'd been talking about horrible numbers for the Metis-M?
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Nov 17, 2014 03:23
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xthetenth posted:I thought they'd been talking about horrible numbers for the Metis-M? Admittedly, I was speaking of the T-80U and BMP-3. Dunnoi about the Metis-M.
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Nov 17, 2014 03:28
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=796_1415997489 Live fire of various russian equipment. Thought it was pretty cool.
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Nov 17, 2014 23:03
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 ...the poo poo is the point of this thing?
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Nov 18, 2014 00:47
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Minenfeld! posted:
If we were still playing ALB, I would say providing air defense for RR jeeps on Ragnarok
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Nov 18, 2014 00:55
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Minenfeld! posted:
Gotta give Norway a SPAAG somehow. It will probably be about as useful as the RR jeeps or Maxon AA trucks. Given the boner Orcbuster seems to have for the CV9030N and its AA sight, I guess that there will be little use to even bother with a dinky 20mm on a flatbed.
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Nov 18, 2014 09:52
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Mortabis posted:If we were still playing ALB, I would say providing air defense for RR jeeps on Ragnarok Were RR jeeps ever good? I've never played ALB.
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Nov 18, 2014 12:55
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