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It is entirely possible to be too subtle in this thread.
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Nov 16, 2014 14:07
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Tell me about it
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Nov 16, 2014 14:12
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Regarde Aduck posted:They often put Nationalist somewhere in their name. Also they have weird pipe dreams that can only be realised at the expense of everyone around them. 
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Nov 16, 2014 15:56
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Burqa King posted:Tell me about it Parody and satire don't work so well when your posting is indistinguishable from that of an actual UKIP supporter. Poe's Law, dude.
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Nov 16, 2014 16:15
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Darth Walrus posted:Parody and satire don't work so well when your posting is indistinguishable from that of FTFY
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Nov 16, 2014 16:24
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The two are somewhat interchangable
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Nov 16, 2014 16:34
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All UKIP supporters are shitheads but not all shitheads are UKIP supporters.
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Nov 16, 2014 16:43
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Wtf I'm a labour supporter!! I just appreciate ukip taking the Tory party to the right and alienating the urban middle classes. Sheesh you guys, just...sheesh
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Nov 16, 2014 17:09
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sometimes I want to go "for gently caress sakes Burqa King put some effort into it" and then it lands every single loving time. by which i mean can't argue with results
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Nov 16, 2014 17:10
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Burqa King posted:Wtf I'm a labour supporter!! I just appreciate ukip taking the Tory party to the right and alienating the urban middle classes. Sheesh you guys, just...sheesh Say that again when we've got Prime minister Boris and deputy Prime minister Nigel running the country.
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Nov 16, 2014 19:47
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Margaret Thatcher posted:Say that again when we've got Prime minister Boris and deputy Prime minister Nigel running the country. I have heard this a number of times and tbh I have imagined a whole horrible future based around this scenario. It is sort of Carry On Hunger Games with extra racism
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Nov 16, 2014 20:19
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LemonDrizzle posted:This is not true. Labour and the Lib Dems propose to run a surplus on the current budget, i.e. the budget excluding investment spending, and to introduce new wealth/high income taxes. The Tories propose to run a surplus on the overall budget, i.e. to make the entirety of government expenditure less than the tax take, while cutting taxes. The Labour/Lib Dem plans in principle permit unlimited borrowing to fund investment and increase the tax take to fund other government expenditure; the Tory plan requires dramatic cuts to both general government expenditure and investment. If the Labour plan 'in principle' permits unlimited borrowing, why do they explicitly say: quote:The next Labour Government will need to address the cost-of-living crisis facing families and reform our economy for the long-term. We will do so at a time when money is tight. So Labour’s manifesto will have no proposals for new spending paid for by additional borrowing. There will be no spending commitments without saying where the money is coming from – we will not make promises we cannot keep and cannot afford. Now I agree there's some weasel wording there that means they could borrow in practice without technically contradicting any of that, but that's always the case - even the Tories have increased borrowing while decrying it. And earlier pledges have never bound governments anyway. But if we look at what they're actually saying, it's all tough talk tough decisions gotta get that debt 'n' deficit down! LemonDrizzle posted:They're completely different other than insofar as the people who've presented them have all used the words 'balance' and 'budget' in close proximity to one-another. Isn't this sort of the point though? They're all using the same language, the same justifications, the same presuppositions. Even if the manifesto details differ, or the ~secret plans~ are to go full RoboLenin once in power, what the public are being presented with is a vision that follows the Tory approach in spirit if not the specific implementation. So they're still committed to cuts, raising retirement ages, reducing the national debt (i.e. borrowing less in future). They're talking the same talk. For people who accept all these arguments, why should they choose Labour's slower version over Gideon "ARE PLAN IS WORKING" Osborne's? I mean look at this: quote:We will apply five overarching principles through our approach to spending: Which of the big three parties isn't saying all this? Where's the message of an alternative?
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Nov 16, 2014 21:17
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It's a bit odd that you want to dismiss the substance of Labour's spending plans in favour of the spin.
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Nov 16, 2014 21:25
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Labour may as well match Tory economic plans while going for crowd friendly measures like energy bill freezes and staying in EU which actually most people want outside of flyblown seaside towns that will be underwater in 15 years anyway
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Nov 16, 2014 22:30
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Ludicro posted:Indeed, the best way to stop fascism is to become just like them. In case you were being serious bashing the fash whenever the fash start flexing their muscles and preferably before is the right thing to do. Even Hitler agreed "Only one thing could have stopped our movement - if our adversaries had understood its principle and from the first day smashed with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement." Fascist movements are complicated but interrupting the 'attacking selected scapegoats and feeling powerful' phase is effective. A large part of why the EDL street movement died is because antifa nicked their flags and slapped em, with larger counter protests ensuring they didnt feel empowered on their marches.
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Nov 16, 2014 22:55
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Pissflaps posted:It's a bit odd that you want to dismiss the substance of Labour's spending plans in favour of the spin. Which bit?
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Nov 16, 2014 23:51
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baka kaba posted:Which bit? Your entire post?
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Nov 16, 2014 23:54
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Pissflaps posted:Your entire post? Even the bits where I outlined aspects of their plans?
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Nov 17, 2014 00:02
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baka kaba posted:Even the bits where I outlined aspects of their plans? Yes those bits where you used bold text to add your own emphasis.
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Nov 17, 2014 00:07
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Pissflaps posted:Yes those bits where you used bold text to add your own emphasis. Or were they copied verbatim from Labour's spending review document with the original formatting?  Really makes you think!
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Nov 17, 2014 00:26
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baka kaba posted:Or were they copied verbatim from Labour's spending review document with the original formatting? Hence: Pissflaps posted:It's a bit odd that you want to dismiss the substance of Labour's spending plans in favour of the spin.
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Nov 17, 2014 00:35
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So Band Aid 30 is coming out tomorrow and they've finally got rid of that awful line. It's now "Well, tonight, we're reaching out and touching you". That said, Liberia is a country formed by former American slaves, so they probably do know it's Christmas as much as the Ethiopians do.
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Nov 17, 2014 00:48
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What was wrong with the original line?
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Nov 17, 2014 00:51
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Wait did they get rid of the "thank God it's them instead of you" line? E: Thats the most important line in the song
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Nov 17, 2014 00:53
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I think they took out that verse about crushing scots, too.
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Nov 17, 2014 00:56
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Phoon posted:Wait did they get rid of the "thank God it's them instead of you" line? Yeah. It's kinda hosed up, to the point that Bono and Geldof allegedly had an argument back in 1984 about it.
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Nov 17, 2014 00:57
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^^^ I take it Geldof was the one who wanted it out? Since it's Bono's special line and he always overdoes itPissflaps posted:Hence: So explain to me how their  "five overarching principles" which define their This is what the election is going to be fought on - Labour supporters will vote Labour. Potential swing voters will see the same rhetoric and the same justifications for the same 'cut to cut the deficit' approach. Leftist voters will see Labour offering a slightly neutered version of the Tory perspective, following them down the same path of austerity. It's not exactly rallying support with an alternative vision for the future
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Nov 17, 2014 01:00
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TinTower posted:Yeah. It's kinda hosed up, to the point that Bono and Geldof allegedly had an argument back in 1984 about it. What's hosed up about it?
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Nov 17, 2014 01:01
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TinTower posted:That said, Liberia is a country formed by former American slaves, so they probably do know it's Christmas as much as the Ethiopians do. This is the only good version: http://www2.b3ta.com/banned-aid/ (nsfw for cartoon cocks and b3ta) Shelf Adventure posted:I think they took out that verse about crushing scots, too.
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Nov 17, 2014 01:01
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Wasn't the point that people in their position might be forgiven for having not realised it's christmas given there was a famine going on, rather than accusing them of being ignorant of the significance of the 25th December in the Christian calendar? That was my assumption anyway.
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Nov 17, 2014 01:03
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baka kaba posted:^^^ I take it Geldof was the one who wanted it out? Since it's Bono's special line and he always overdoes it Geldof wanted it in specifically to appeal to middle class feelings of white guilt. The whole song has always had a kind of creepy white saviour feel to it.
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Nov 17, 2014 01:06
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TinTower posted:Geldof wanted it in specifically to appeal to middle class feelings of white guilt. The whole song has always had a kind of creepy white saviour feel to it. That's weird then, I always thought Bono was fiercely protective of it, to the point where he'll show up in any version that's ever recorded to belt it out with tasteless amounts of reverb
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Nov 17, 2014 01:07
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It's an angry/accusatory line that also establishes that the circumstances of your birth are luck of the draw and removing it is a cowardly move imo.
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Nov 17, 2014 01:14
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Pissflaps posted:Wasn't the point that people in their position might be forgiven for having not realised it's christmas given there was a famine going on, rather than accusing them of being ignorant of the significance of the 25th December in the Christian calendar? That was my assumption anyway. That, or that it wasn't right that anyone should be seen to be starving at time of year dedicated to consumerist and gastronomic excess because it makes us feel bad and puts us off our dinner, so let's throw money at it until we don't feel bad any more. So exactly the same as most charity drives, more or less.
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Nov 17, 2014 01:15
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Pissflaps posted:Wasn't the point that people in their position might be forgiven for having not realised it's christmas given there was a famine going on, rather than accusing them of being ignorant of the significance of the 25th December in the Christian calendar? That was my assumption anyway. i thought it was because, oh I don't know, they're in the middle of subsaharan loving africa whose position on the equator makes it practically impossible to tell if its winter let alone christmas
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Nov 17, 2014 01:16
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Burqa King posted:i thought it was because, oh I don't know, they're in the middle of subsaharan loving africa whose position on the equator makes it practically impossible to tell if its winter let alone christmas I'd hate to celebrate Christmas in a hot country. Which is ironic considering Jesus was, in fact, born in a hot country.
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Nov 17, 2014 01:17
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Burqa King posted:i thought it was because, oh I don't know, they're in the middle of subsaharan loving africa whose position on the equator makes it practically impossible to tell if its winter let alone christmas
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Nov 17, 2014 01:27
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perhaps they would if someone were to tell them that snow, melted, distilled and decanted into a suitable receptacle, becomes the refreshing drink we know as water
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Nov 17, 2014 01:30
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baka kaba posted:stuff As for why you might want a slow deficit/debt reduction plan rather than a fast one, consider a case where a man comes to a doctor because he's worried about his high blood pressure. The doctor says "Well, you could adjust your diet, lose some weight, and start exercising. Over a few months, that'll bring your blood pressure down to a healthy range. Alternatively, I can cut your stupid loving head off right now and bring your blood pressure down to zero almost instantly." If that doesn't explain it satisfactorily, you could read this and the references therein: http://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/uk-fiscal-policy-from-2015.html
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Nov 17, 2014 01:32
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baka kaba posted:That's weird then, I always thought Bono was fiercely protective of it, to the point where he'll show up in any version that's ever recorded to belt it out with tasteless amounts of reverb he's not on Band Aid II
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Nov 17, 2014 01:42
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