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Notorious b.s.d. posted:kernel scheduling isn't a user interface. i can objectively measure how well a kernel schedules processes without ever asking a user about his preferences GNOME 3 is not designed for systems administrators.
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Nov 17, 2014 22:40
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ahmeni posted:I do a little bit of UI stuff at work and i try to reject as many direct suggestions from my users as possible, understand pain points instead and bring a spiked out UI to a UX and it results in way happier people all around because I know my limitations (and am colourblind lol) My last ui product directed by like 2 guys from management and implemented by deva and it was every bit as bad as you might think. It also used office integration heavily
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Nov 17, 2014 22:44
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gnome 3 is rly good if you give it a chance and work with it i got annoyed at gnome's web browser for being poo poo at handling lots of tabs in one window, then i started keeping related tabs in separate windows and switching between them with gnome shell and it turns out to be much better! almost like tabs in web browsers are a hack to compensate for window managers that are not up to the job also gnome 3 w/ infinality looks so loving nice on a hidpi screen. and two-finger touchpad scrolling is buttery smooth too. needs p thoroughly suited here
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Nov 17, 2014 22:56
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Shaggar posted:idk what systemd is but it must be good if its making greybeards quit Linux. it's like launchd but not as good because it doesn't have Mach underneath
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Nov 17, 2014 23:03
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Suspicious Dish posted:GNOME 3 is not designed for systems administrators. but it's for Linux, who else would it be for…?
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Nov 17, 2014 23:06
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Mr Dog posted:buttery smooth no thanks
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Nov 18, 2014 00:17
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Suspicious Dish posted:GNOME 3 is not designed for people who use Linux.
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Nov 18, 2014 00:34
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Suspicious Dish posted:GNOME 3 is not designed for systems administrators. this is the problem systems administrators, linux software developers, and scientists are the primary users of desktop linux. who is gnome 3 made for, if not the sperglords? not anyone who actually uses linux
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Nov 18, 2014 01:15
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:this is the problem this is not some magical chant you can use to recuse yourself from having any sort of design consistency and professionalism
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Nov 18, 2014 01:21
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ahmeni posted:this is not some magical chant you can use to recuse yourself from having any sort of design consistency and professionalism would i like it if kde came with more attractive themes by default? sure. who wouldn't. but design is never gonna be enough to justify removing all the preferences dialogues, dropping task lists as a thing, moving to a "spatial" file manager, mangling the alt-tab menu, etc etc design consistency is not a sufficient reason to drop features or radically change interface metaphors
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Nov 18, 2014 01:25
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ahmeni posted:this is not some magical chant you can use to recuse yourself from having any sort of design consistency and professionalism desktop linux has a niche. the only reason it continues to survive in a world that contains windows and os x is because it meets needs that the two polished consumer-oriented oses do not. given this fact, it is not at all obvious that the correct goal, for people who wish to secure its future, is to try to turn it into a polished consumer-oriented os.
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Nov 18, 2014 02:04
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i actually rather like the consumer-orientedness of modern linux tyvm and i do Real Work on my linux too biggest problem is the lack of a standardised software distribution mechanism really, it would be nice if the eventual solution to that problem didn't involve having fifty copies of libz or whatever on my system though. more people are capable of installing a non-stock os on their computers than you give them credit for though, and they aren't necessarily complete beardlords either some of them just like not having a bunch of shitware on their pc, or having a gui that doesn't look like rear end
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Nov 18, 2014 02:13
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Mr Dog posted:i actually rather like the consumer-orientedness of modern linux tyvm and i do Real Work on my linux too the lack of shitware is a big selling point for me
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Nov 18, 2014 02:22
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all desktop linux software is 'shitware'
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Nov 18, 2014 02:37
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holy lol perens is super eager to poo poo up the comments in all three of these lwn posts bsd stymie you need to actually read the links, perens isn't resigning from anything. instead he's doing this weird combo of detesting how ian jackson has gone about trying to defeat systemd while also trying to align himself with systemd opponents, including lots of the usual dumbfuck  MONOLITHIC type criticismsin this latest one perens is a bit whiny about pushback he has gotten and started a subthread titled "Anyone who criticizes systemd has a character flaw". and then this happened: ------------ Posted Nov 17, 2014 21:11 UTC (Mon) by BrucePerens (guest, #2510) [Link] I am going to give you an exercise. Stand around quietly for one hour in an Apple store, watching what goes on around you. Those are users. We're sysadmins. We are very much unlike the common people. Look at their emotions. At what they are interested in. At the feeling of empowerment they get from that Apple stuff. At the way they absolutely lust for it. How did that happen? Why are we so far from what they are looking for? Some of us will arrive at an understanding from doing this sufficiently. Some never will. ------------ ------------ Posted Nov 17, 2014 21:15 UTC (Mon) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link] Part of how it happened was that Apple shipped an init daemon that meant users wouldn't end up with mysteriously broken systems because of a race condition at startup. ------------ ahahahahaha
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Nov 18, 2014 02:40
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agreed, use launchd
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Nov 18, 2014 02:42
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BobHoward posted:holy lol perens is super eager to poo poo up the comments in all three of these lwn posts Matt Garrett owns
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Nov 18, 2014 02:49
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Soricidus posted:given this fact, it is not at all obvious that the correct goal, for people who wish to secure its future, is to try to turn it into a polished consumer-oriented os. by cargo culting all the worst bits of lion and windows 8
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Nov 18, 2014 02:59
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Silver Alicorn posted:just got GNOME/Firefox up and running after learning the new systemd thing (what was wrong with system V style scripts??) arch in a nutshell folks you had to learn what systemd was in order to have a desktop
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Nov 18, 2014 03:21
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Captain Foo posted:Matt Garrett owns even awesome people can be wrong
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Nov 18, 2014 03:24
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posted at bruce perens http://lwn.net/Articles/621111/ quote:I'm expecting you to make useful, actionable criticisms about what in systemd you don't like, in ways that could actually be fixed. If you can point to some specific issue you have with systemd, that can be addressed. And in particular, anything you *think* you could address by a process change could potentially instead be addressed by fixing the code to achieve the same result. 
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Nov 18, 2014 03:39
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Captain Foo posted:Matt Garrett owns this
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Nov 18, 2014 05:07
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ZShakespeare posted:I would straight up murder a man to have the multimonitor workspace behaviour shamelessly copied from how OSX has done it since mavericks. theres a solution to this
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Nov 18, 2014 05:31
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Soricidus posted:desktop linux has a niche. the only reason it continues to survive in a world that contains windows and os x is because it meets needs that the two polished consumer-oriented oses do not. sperging isnt a need
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Nov 18, 2014 05:31
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if systemd is driving off obnoxious weirdbeards that actively fight against making things more usable for normal people because they think that they're ~special snowflake sysadmins~ then i hope it continues to win.
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Nov 18, 2014 05:33
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we got through what, 2 whole pages without any systemd talk, gj
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Nov 18, 2014 05:52
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The_Franz posted:if systemd is driving off obnoxious weirdbeards that actively fight against making things more usable for normal people because they think that they're ~special snowflake sysadmins~ then i hope it continues to win. in debians case the obnoxious weirdbeards are driving out the people who looked at systemd with an open mind and chose to make debian better by using it this doesnt bode well for debians future imo but i freely admit i havent paid any attention to debian before this drama so i could be stuipd or whatever
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Nov 18, 2014 06:09
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Gazpacho posted:we got through what, 2 whole pages without any systemd talk, gj I want to read more mailing list posts written by the Simpsons Comic Book Store Guy.
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Nov 18, 2014 06:11
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Ten years ago I got a new job that would allow me to work from home. My mom was very concerned about this for some reason. Later that week we went to MicroCenter. We heard loud yelling, so we went to investigate. When we turned the corner, there was a big giant fat guy with a pony tail, and he was wearing rainbow-colored suspenders, and shorts. He was screaming at a store employee about "free software video drivers". My mom turned to me and said, "This is why I don't want you to work from home."
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Nov 18, 2014 06:20
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Captain Pike posted:Ten years ago I got a new job that would allow me to work from home. My mom was very concerned about this for some reason. and that man was albert einstein
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Nov 18, 2014 06:21
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Captain Pike posted:Ten years ago I got a new job that would allow me to work from home. My mom was very concerned about this for some reason. That fat neckbeard then punched the salesman in the face. He said, "RMS was busy protecting your freedoms, so he sent me to fill in!" That neckbeard was RMS.
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Nov 18, 2014 06:38
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Y'know I've been running Ubuntu GNOME for a couple of weeks now, and really its nice. Couple of extensions for keyboard shortcuts to cover my tiling needs and I'm golden. I don't spend too much time CJing and with an Ansible setup for all my dev tools I can basically take any old box and run up my entire dev environment in 1 hour unattended, which is handy if my main craps out. I even inflict a Linux on my family computers and as long as I keep them on stable LTS poo poo just works. No license keys, no CD hunting, image a USB and go. It may help that I only buy games from Humble Bundle/Store these days ...
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Nov 18, 2014 07:24
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why does your dev environment take 1 hour to provision lol
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Nov 18, 2014 07:27
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pram posted:why does your dev environment take 1 hour to provision lol That's including the format and install from nothing. I could probably image I guess but I don't care so much. Been a while since I tined it though.
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Nov 18, 2014 07:39
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use teh cloud
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Nov 18, 2014 07:44
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:design consistency is not a sufficient reason to drop features or radically change interface metaphors yes it is, that's how things mature and get better there is an entire discipline dedicated to the hard problem of UX but you're trivialising it because you consider your users special snowflakes and then suffer from it stop confusing improvement with dumbing down
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Nov 18, 2014 07:46
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also it may help to note im not advocating for it to be friendly towards regular folks but that design principles apply to software for spergs too
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Nov 18, 2014 07:48
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Mr Dog posted:gnome 3 is rly good if you give it a chance and work with it jesus christ it's like i was right about everything all along
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Nov 18, 2014 07:51
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theadder posted:sperging isnt a need a thing that keeps insufferable neckbeards quietly cjing away in their basements is arguably doing a public service for the rest of us
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Nov 18, 2014 09:39
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:but design is never gonna be enough to justify removing all the preferences dialogues, dropping task lists as a thing, moving to a "spatial" file manager, mangling the alt-tab menu, etc etc boy you sure are mad about things getting better and improving with time and reflection
someone please go take a good hard look at gedit 3.14. it's not perfect (plugins lol) but it gets some things really right
you probably just went from the world's sparsest notepad clone to a needs-meeting sublime text-level editor. syntax coloring and themes, line numbering, code collapsing, autocompletion, documenation reference, integrated interpreter.. so it is totally possible to design desktop apps that look incredibly simple and non-threatening, but still have really great and deep feature sets that you reveal only when someone actually goes looking for it. and its not even that clever about it.
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Nov 18, 2014 10:18
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"but my workflow"