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I've just realised that the answer to all Canada's plane-buying needs is the F-5 with mad drop tanks and an extra internal fuel bay perhaps behind the pilot or whatever. Think about it: twin engine, won't actually have to shoot anything but can get a nice little radar lock going as part of the conversation with boundary flights from Russia (shoehorn in the AN/APG-81 why not, take out the gun if needs be), and if anything Actually Happens then the USA is just next door with its Proper Planes, the F-22. And it won't cost billions. It's not like Canada's invading anywhere any time soon.
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Nov 18, 2014 15:10
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I love me some F-5s, and hate dumb derails. When someone says draw a fighter, this is probably what close to what most people come up with  It'll carry a shitload of bombs for a tiny rear end plane. Granted that math works out to not a lot of bombs still.  These things are seeing upgrades to this day. You can get them setup with everything from AMRAAMs to the Mavericks seen here.  Even the Iranians agree! Sucks that it was under-engined its entire run, and really could only go toe to toe with a Mig-21 on favorable terms. And its too bad its big brother the F-20 died off, can you imagine what was basically that 1950's small plane design pushing Mach 2?
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Nov 18, 2014 15:23
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Cippalippus posted:That's quite a lot of people angry about Swiss superior democracy and arguing about the Swiss Confederation with a swiss leftist, it's almost as if american impotence in our internal affairs got you guys all mad or something. A couple of points: A-Most Americans don't care about Swiss politics, nor can they point to Swissland on a map. B-They only know of this nation's existence because of cheese and the Muppets' chef. C-I don't think anybody's actually mad at you. Your views are so bizarre that I think it's more like throwing things at the zoo monkeys or tapping on the glass to get a response, except monkeys return fire with poo poo (maybe that's a better analogy than I thought) and creatures in glass boxes rarely care about tapping. Your posts, however, are hilarious. Some might not be happy with me for spilling the beans, but I'm pretty confident you won't stop shining on, you crazy diamond. Edit: I think you'd have to split an APG-81 between two or three F-5s to make it fit.
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Nov 18, 2014 15:24
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Godholio posted:Edit: I think you'd have to split an APG-81 between two or three F-5s to make it fit. Um if you can have a gun pod why not a radar pod? You just aren't thinking outside the box. Now give me a government contract. e: actually you fly something with a radar pod on the top, don't you?
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Nov 18, 2014 15:29
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Godholio posted:C-I don't think anybody's actually mad at you. MrYenko posted:We're pretty much impotent when it comes to our OWN internal affairs. Who cares about a mountain-bound chocolate factory with a flag, and the impression that their opinion actually loving matters to the rest of the world? That's cool, sorry for mistaking pages of angry posts about our own referendum against buying new fighter jets for the fact that you care about our own internal politics. Now if you excuse me, I need to collect signatures for a new referendum against the modernization of our land forces. 
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Nov 18, 2014 15:39
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I was asked to develop a concept for providing indirect fire protection for a contested airborne operation and I've been staring at a blank slide for 30 minutes. For some reason this reminds me of the F-35.
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Nov 18, 2014 15:54
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bewbies posted:I was asked to develop a concept for providing indirect fire protection for a contested airborne operation and I've been staring at a blank slide for 30 minutes. The answer is clearly an LHA and its six F-35Bs.
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Nov 18, 2014 15:56
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Once again I prove that someone needs to give me a job. The AeroGavin. Of course.
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Nov 18, 2014 16:02
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bewbies posted:I was asked to develop a concept for providing indirect fire protection for a contested airborne operation and I've been staring at a blank slide for 30 minutes.
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Nov 18, 2014 16:09
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Cippalippus posted:That's quite a lot of people angry about Swiss superior democracy and arguing about the Swiss Confederation with a swiss leftist, it's almost as if american impotence in our internal affairs got you guys all mad or something. Man, seriously, shut the gently caress up and take it to D&D. You are trying really hard to ruin a good thread. People come here to see pictures of airplanes, not listen to 18 year olds spout off how superior they are because they vote green party. Go back to tumblr.
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Nov 18, 2014 16:15
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simplefish posted:I've just realised that the answer to all Canada's plane-buying needs is the F-5 with mad drop tanks and an extra internal fuel bay perhaps behind the pilot or whatever. I am SO on board with this. They're so cheap too, it means I might be able to have one too! 
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Nov 18, 2014 16:20
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Godholio posted:B-They only know of this nation's existence because of cheese and the Muppets' chef.  Unless you're piling on the insults by pointing out that nobody knows the difference between Sweden and Switzerland...On topic: apparently Sweden leases Gripens to some countries like the Czech Republic. I don't really understand what "leasing" a fighter jet means. Do the Czechs fly them back to Sweden for maintenance or something?
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Nov 18, 2014 16:33
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bewbies posted:I was asked to develop a concept for providing indirect fire protection for a contested airborne operation and I've been staring at a blank slide for 30 minutes. The answer is a group of B52's full of GBU-39/B small diameter bombs flying at high altitude. quote:The U.S. Air Force is continuing to upgrade its fifty year old B-52s. The latest upgrade will enable each B-52 to carry over 110 of the 130 kg (285 pound) Small Diameter Bombs (SDB, also known as the GBU-39/B). Six years ago the rotary bomb rack inside the B-52 was modified to carry 32 SDBs instead of 15 larger bombs. Pre-coordinated strikes will allow a "dump strike" over any given GPS kill box where the enemy is sighted. Precision strike capability will still maintained for any popup target engagement. In order to have an airborne operation, air superiority would be required. This would also allow for any B52 operation needed.
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Nov 18, 2014 16:59
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What was going on here? World's smallest aircraft carrier?
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Nov 18, 2014 17:00
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You Won't BELIEVE What Happened When Lightning Struck Two Ducks!
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Nov 18, 2014 17:03
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Europe's able to enjoy that better society and vastly superior standard of living because we've been stupid enough to augment and cheaply (through incentives) supply most European militaries for the better part of a century. Sweden and Finland built their own militaries though along with the welfare state. If your military is only intended for national defense, one gets away with spending a lot less.
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Nov 18, 2014 17:10
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Ferrying the fighter from shore to a larger ship in deeper water iirc. Bewbies, you mean protection from indirect fire in a contested airborne operation? Put up pictures of body armor, I guess. Or airborne c-ram 
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Nov 18, 2014 17:12
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david_a posted:On topic: apparently Sweden leases Gripens to some countries like the Czech Republic. I don't really understand what "leasing" a fighter jet means. Do the Czechs fly them back to Sweden for maintenance or something? We actually have more Gripens than we need for service in the air force, mostly because we ordered a lot and then immediately turned around and disbanded a bunch of air wings immediately after delivery. The aircraft are formally owned by the Swedish state, the Czech republic pays for using them. I don't know exactly how much maintenance they provide themselves and how much is included in the lease, but AFAIK all (or at least the vast majority of) maintenance is done in the Czech republic and not here.
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Nov 18, 2014 17:14
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Just hope you don't get any bounced Czechs! 
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Nov 18, 2014 17:16
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priznat posted:Just hope you don't get any bounced Czechs! 
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Nov 18, 2014 17:19
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TheFluff posted:We actually have more Gripens than we need for service in the air force, mostly because we ordered a lot and then immediately turned around and disbanded a bunch of air wings immediately after delivery. The aircraft are formally owned by the Swedish state, the Czech republic pays for using them. I don't know exactly how much maintenance they provide themselves and how much is included in the lease, but AFAIK all (or at least the vast majority of) maintenance is done in the Czech republic and not here.
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Nov 18, 2014 17:34
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david_a posted:OK, so this is Sweden attempting to get money out of planes that would otherwise be sitting around and dealing with countries that couldn't afford to buy them outright? Exactly. I'm pretty sure the Czechs were originally planning to buy the aircraft but I think some economic downturn made them go for a lease instead.
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Nov 18, 2014 17:51
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Ruse posted:I am SO on board with this. They're so cheap too, it means I might be able to have one too! Realistically speaking, how would an F-5 fare against some of the possible (newer) adversaries? david_a posted:On topic: apparently Sweden leases Gripens to some countries like the Czech Republic. I don't really understand what "leasing" a fighter jet means. Do the Czechs fly them back to Sweden for maintenance or something? Interestingly, Sweden has around 50 Gripen As standing in a shed somewhere, and I proposed as a thought experiment to a friend of mine who is fairly high up in the defense ministry that perhaps NATO could persuade Sweden to "lease" them to the Baltic states for 0.00 EUR. Other major NATO countries could contribute in pilot training, but it seems the running costs would still probably be too high for the Baltic states to handle on their own. Gripens here would be a very good option considering the similar climate and also they have (supposedly) very good radars.
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Nov 18, 2014 18:09
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OhYeah posted:Realistically speaking, how would an F-5 fare against some of the possible (newer) adversaries? Well that depends - does the pilot punch out in time? Is it against a European power who can't replace that AMRAAM? because this might work out in the F-5's favor
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Nov 18, 2014 18:18
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OhYeah posted:Realistically speaking, how would an F-5 fare against some of the possible (newer) adversaries? Very poorly. However, that doesn't stop the Marine OPFOR pilots with 20 years of flying under their belts in F-5s from occasionally straight punking young Captains flying F-18s or even the occasional Superbug or Viper. After a single F-5 managed an unobserved entry into a four-ship of F-18s and killed them all in seconds from extremely short range, the O-6 running the exercise told the F-18 pilots to join the secret service, because all they were good for was taking a bullet. The thanks the F-5 got for wiping out 4 F-18s immediately? A friendly F-18 shot him down on accident, got to buy the LTC he shot down a keg of his choice.
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Nov 18, 2014 18:27
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simplefish posted:Um if you can have a gun pod why not a radar pod? You just aren't thinking outside the box. quote:e: actually you fly something with a radar pod on the top, don't you? Used to ride in the back, yeah. david_a posted:Hey! Yeah that was  I thought it was entertaining.OhYeah posted:Realistically speaking, how would an F-5 fare against some of the possible (newer) adversaries? Edit: Flukes like that I observed entry can happen...I saw a Harrier do the same thing at Red Flag to F-16 aggressors. That was pretty awesome in the shot Val debrief to hear "Stop tape, need to assess..." from the Harrier dudes who otherwise probably wouldn't have even attended that one. Godholio fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Nov 18, 2014 |
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Nov 18, 2014 18:27
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Mortabis posted:Every single part of the story with the captain shutting himself in his cabin is amazing (and hilarious). Best part is the Chief Engineer is a hot blond named "Destiny Savage." I mean, really?   http://www.kpbs.org/news/2014/aug/07/why-uss-cowpens-co-gombert-savage-fired/
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Nov 18, 2014 18:46
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Hahahaha that's really the most appropriate description isn't it?. Also re:grippen, it's not just so much the decent radar, it's the combination with its datalink integration.
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Nov 18, 2014 18:50
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OhYeah posted:Interestingly, Sweden has around 50 Gripen As standing in a shed somewhere, and I proposed as a thought experiment to a friend of mine who is fairly high up in the defense ministry that perhaps NATO could persuade Sweden to "lease" them to the Baltic states for 0.00 EUR. Other major NATO countries could contribute in pilot training, but it seems the running costs would still probably be too high for the Baltic states to handle on their own. Gripens here would be a very good option considering the similar climate and also they have (supposedly) very good radars. Gripen A/B isn't really NATO compatible. Instruments are graded in metric rather than in knots/feet, which is a major problem if you've got to talk to an air traffic controller of any kind that isn't using the same system - which is all of them. The datalink only lets you talk to other Gripen A/B's (and old school Swedish ground installations that aren't NATO compatible either and probably aren't in service anymore, as well as to any fighter Viggens you might run into  (spoilers: there are none flying AFAIK)). The navigation system is probably rather Sweden-centric as well, etc etc.
TheFluff fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Nov 18, 2014 |
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Nov 18, 2014 18:54
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TheFluff posted:Gripen A/B isn't really NATO compatible. Instruments are graded in metric rather than in knots/feet, which is a major problem if you've got to talk to an air traffic controller of any kind that isn't using the same system - which is all of them. Not the Warsaw Pact's... 
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Nov 18, 2014 19:02
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Armyman25 posted:Best part is the Chief Engineer is a hot blond named "Destiny Savage." Hope she was worth destroying a career over.  The mental image of her commanding a ship while standing on a couple of boxes makes me giggle.
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Nov 18, 2014 20:10
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TheFluff posted:We actually have more Gripens than we need for service in the air force, mostly because we ordered a lot and then immediately turned around and disbanded a bunch of air wings immediately after delivery. The aircraft are formally owned by the Swedish state, the Czech republic pays for using them. I don't know exactly how much maintenance they provide themselves and how much is included in the lease, but AFAIK all (or at least the vast majority of) maintenance is done in the Czech republic and not here. These Gripen planes were leased including maintenance. In fact I think that is one of the main selling points for Gripen. It's way easier to get a deal when the buyer knows the full cost.
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Nov 18, 2014 20:27
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mlmp08 posted:Very poorly. However, that doesn't stop the Marine OPFOR pilots with 20 years of flying under their belts in F-5s from occasionally straight punking young Captains flying F-18s or even the occasional Superbug or Viper. Haha, I would love to hear more stories like this, if anyone has to share. TheFluff posted:Gripen A/B isn't really NATO compatible. Instruments are graded in metric rather than in knots/feet, which is a major problem if you've got to talk to an air traffic controller of any kind that isn't using the same system - which is all of them. The datalink only lets you talk to other Gripen A/B's (and old school Swedish ground installations that aren't NATO compatible either and probably aren't in service anymore, as well as to any fighter Viggens you might run into Thanks for clearing that up, I think it is pretty clear that unless something dramatic happens those Gripens will be staying in the sheds.
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Nov 18, 2014 22:36
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OhYeah posted:Thanks for clearing that up, I think it is pretty clear that unless something dramatic happens those Gripens will be staying in the sheds. Maybe some day there'll be funds to upgrade them after the Swedish government has found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Or something.
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Nov 18, 2014 23:10
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Yeah upgrading them to C/D is fairly straightforward, a lot of C/D's came from upgraded A/B's. It's just a matter of money that nobody wants to spend.
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Nov 18, 2014 23:46
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TheFluff posted:Gripen A/B isn't really NATO compatible. Instruments are graded in metric rather than in knots/feet, which is a major problem if you've got to talk to an air traffic controller of any kind that isn't using the same system - which is all of them. The datalink only lets you talk to other Gripen A/B's (and old school Swedish ground installations that aren't NATO compatible either and probably aren't in service anymore, as well as to any fighter Viggens you might run into
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Nov 18, 2014 23:51
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Who likes videos of dumpy-looking carrier-capable transport planes that turned 50 today? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GToUP8f8Tg And a fly-along with the Thunderbirds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJbZrHIS7J4
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Nov 19, 2014 01:12
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A CH-47 passed low overhead this afternoon. I assume it came from Pease: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pease_Air_National_Guard_Base
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Nov 19, 2014 01:33
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TheFluff posted:Gripen A/B isn't really NATO compatible. Instruments are graded in metric rather than in knots/feet, which is a major problem if you've got to talk to an air traffic controller of any kind that isn't using the same system - which is all of them. The datalink only lets you talk to other Gripen A/B's (and old school Swedish ground installations that aren't NATO compatible either and probably aren't in service anymore, as well as to any fighter Viggens you might run into Wait, are NATO ground controllers really handling measurements in knots and feet? loving hell. A quick perusal of the internet also seems to suggest that civilian air traffic control is still done in English Customary. I realize that these things all got going before the west really hopped on board the metrification train, but I had high hopes that like other serious professions, ATC would have moved to metric.
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Nov 19, 2014 01:35
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Good loving luck telling everyone they have to change all their aircraft displays, every ground control display, and retrain all your pilots to be thinking in a different unit. It's one of those things that is such a tremendous pain in the dick to change you just keep rolling with it.
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