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Tekopo posted:Anyone up for FitL on VASSAL tomorrow let me know. Most people use the IRC for this kinda thing right? (I might be able to sneak in a short scenario)
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Nov 16, 2014 02:06
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Edit: Probably not workable. Never mind.
Fat Turkey fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 03:40
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Tekopo posted:Anyone up for FitL on VASSAL tomorrow let me know. Are commies red? Sign me up 
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Nov 16, 2014 04:23
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Any recommendations on Solitaire games for getting started in tabletop wargamming? I've thrown too much money into PC wargames and want to try expanding into tabletop but sadly I have no friends so... I'm really interested in modern/cold war stuff and am not too afraid of a steep learning curve, I play enough grognard games to power through N-page manuals.
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Nov 16, 2014 04:43
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apseudonym posted:Any recommendations on Solitaire games for getting started in tabletop wargamming? I've thrown too much money into PC wargames and want to try expanding into tabletop but sadly I have no friends so... I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive, but Thunderbolt-Apache Leader should be a fine choice if playing as aerial units only is acceptable. The ground-heavy ones I've seen seem to be mostly WWII? If that's OK there's D-Day at Omaha Beach, or Fields of Fire for the moderate grognard. Fields of Fire has Korea/Vietnam missions too, so a little more modern. rchandra fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Nov 16, 2014 |
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Nov 16, 2014 04:52
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rchandra posted:I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive, but Thunderbolt-Apache Leader should be a fine choice if playing as aerial units only is acceptable. The ground-heavy ones I've seen seem to be mostly WWII? If that's OK there's D-Day at Omaha Beach, or Fields of Fire for the moderate grognard. Fields of Fire has Korea/Vietnam missions too, so a little more modern. Only problem is Fields of Fire is (proving to be) difficult to find for a decent price. D-Day at Omaha Beach is still in print and I can confirm that it's super fun. The solitaire mechanic is really well-implemented.
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Nov 16, 2014 05:11
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Just picked up ASL Starter Kit #1 at a local game shop for $20. I don't know what the "tossing money up in the air" emoticon is, but I feel like it's going to apply here before long. I feel like this is akin to someone giving me a first little bump of cocaine and then saying, "yeah, no problem, this one's on me, look how easy and fun this is!" Next thing I know, I'll be broke and lying in a ditch somewhere trying to find LOS to my next mugging victim. Also got the C3i issue with Soviet Dawn in it. I'm excited to try that out.
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Nov 16, 2014 21:29
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War is hell.
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Nov 17, 2014 05:53
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COOL CORN posted:War is hell. 
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Nov 17, 2014 06:11
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Virgin Queen Game
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Nov 17, 2014 18:23
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Tekopo posted:Yessssss Things I learned last night: - Clipping counters with a tiny pair of nail clippers for 1hr+ really makes your hand cramp up. - ASL, even if it's just the SK, is actually really cool, and not bad at all for solo play.
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Nov 17, 2014 18:32
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COOL CORN posted:- Clipping counters with a tiny pair of nail clippers for 1hr+ really makes your hand cramp up. I got into a clipping spree for several days, going after my two dozen war games with those awful frayed edges. Some of them counted upwards of 3000 pieces. Though I finished that spree around August, starting later that month and still on-going I've had severe on-and-off wrist pains each day. As if from repetitive wrist motion injury. I'm scheduling for a orthopedist this week. You've been warned. My hand is worn.
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Nov 17, 2014 20:39
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Trynant posted:I got into a clipping spree for several days, going after my two dozen war games with those awful frayed edges. Some of them counted upwards of 3000 pieces. If you're clipping that much it's probably worth getting one of the nice corner cutting gadgets to save your wrist. I like mine a lot.
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Nov 17, 2014 20:42
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This may be a bit of an odd question, but with historical wargames, how much do you expect the outcome of a game to vary from the history? I know that these are obviously games and will never be slaves to the real events, but is it a good game design or not if things can turn out exactly the same? The two things that made me think about this are someone mentioning the distinctive fish-hook making an appearance in their Guns of Gettysburg game, and the second is a review of Korea: The Forgotten War that talked about how it's inevitable the south will spend the first half retreating and the North will spend the second half doing the same.
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Nov 17, 2014 21:41
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Guns of Gettysburg specifically is randomly historical. That is to say, reinforcements for each side come at somewhat random times during the first day (and then a little at random times in day 2 and 3) and so if things go just right, the Union might be driven back to Cemetary ridge. But if not, the Union might arrive first, have a wider line, have to defend more ground. Or the Union won't even get a corp for a long time, and suddenly they only have to defend a little but it's even further back from the ridge.
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Nov 17, 2014 21:44
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It's a tricky subject in that it's a balancing act between two generally lovely extremes. If it strays too far from history it's just not the battle you've been promised to reenact, if it's too scripted, it's too scripted and strips any feeling of agency. It's hard to quantify the sweet spot, but I expect the game to retain the general momentum of a war/battle it's simulating and retain the core elements crucial to its understanding - whether that's specifics of tactics used by the sides or particulars of the terrain really kind of depends on the subject matter. I guess the correct answer is there should be game on every point of the script-freeform continuum so that one can play the kind he feels like at the moment.
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Nov 17, 2014 22:06
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Personally, on the following continuum... Free-form <--------|--------> Scripted ...I prefer a little left-of-center. I'm a big fan of "what if" scenarios, which is why COIN games and Twilight Struggle appeal to me so much. You're perfectly within your rights to say, "what if the whole Che Guevara thing never happened," or whatever, and that makes the game more fun for me. I guess that's why I like CDGs more than totally open-map tactical games 
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Nov 17, 2014 22:15
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What are some games that you would say sit on each extreme of the spectrum?
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Nov 17, 2014 22:22
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No Retreat: The Russian Front is not really overscripted, but I think it's dangerously close to it. I feel that oftentimes it feels like playing according to a script*, until someone makes a first major blunder and then has to hope the enemy reciprocates. Also, with the updated Axis-nerfing rules, I firmly believe the Axis player lives or dies by the VPs obtained from encirclements**, as planning to go for territory in not feasible, due to aforementioned scripting. * With an exception for my peculiar habit for always drawing a short winter in'41 when playing as soviets. It's not quite as uncanny as my bad luck in Command&Colors games, but it's close. ** In this game enemies destroyed out of supply are more costly to replace and give you a victory point. Smuta: The Time of Troubles is a freeform insane clusterfuck, though probably this is no help as an example as it is so obscure. As an aside, about a month ago I thought about doing a "FATAL & Friends"-alike series about weird obscure Eastern European wargames. Man, I should really sit down to it.
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Nov 17, 2014 22:52
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So what's a good 2-player starter wargame? I want something fairly straightforward to play with my wife. Anything aside from ancient era would be fine, I'd prefer something hex and counter though...
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Nov 17, 2014 23:04
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SquadronROE posted:So what's a good 2-player starter wargame? I want something fairly straightforward to play with my wife. Anything aside from ancient era would be fine, I'd prefer something hex and counter though... I'm using Fading Glory as an introduction to hex and counter games and its really solid so far. It contains 4 different battles that take about 2~ hours to play with no more than 20 pieces on the board at a time. Has mounted maps, really pretty counters, and a rulebook that works well enough.
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Nov 17, 2014 23:14
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If you want a truly babby's first wargame, you can try Battle for Moscow, A Victory Lost or or the Memoir '44/Command and Colors games. If you want a good game with lasting appeal that's not particularly hardcore spergin', you can check out: - Combat Commander, Conflict of Heroes or Band of Brothers (sequel, Ghost Panzer is better) for fun WWII tactics. - No Retreat: The Russian Front and Red Winter are also WWII games, albeit of a more zoomed out "generals ordering units" scope. These (No Retreat especially) are sort of filled with lots of little thematic rules on top of generally straightforward systems - but if you can handle, say, Mage Knight, you'll be fine. - Hannibal and Washington's War are cool, classic card-driven wargames. Ever played Twilight Struggle? It's the same game, but with actual soldiers to push around. - Any block game from Columbia Games will be perfect for your purposes. I think Hammer of the Scots is considered the best? - If you have access to a time machine, visit your FLGS in 2011 for Sekigahara, it's pretty and cool and newbie-friendly. [edit] Fading Glory above is a very good recommendation too.
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Nov 17, 2014 23:17
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I've been using OGRE for a quick 2-player wargame. The pocket edition is still available for $3 + shipping from SJ games.
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Nov 17, 2014 23:39
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Good ideas, I'll keep an eye out for cheap copies of any of those that show up. Except maybe OGRE. For some reason I'm just not sure I'd enjoy it.
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Nov 17, 2014 23:56
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SquadronROE posted:Good ideas, I'll keep an eye out for cheap copies of any of those that show up. Except maybe OGRE. For some reason I'm just not sure I'd enjoy it. OGRE isn't bad for an introduction, and for three bucks its a steal. It offers some interesting tactics as the player defending against the OGRE can point-buy their army. The asymmetrical nature of 1 v many helped me introduce the genre to a few, as I'd just give them an ogre and tell them to kill the base. Unfortunately, it's super shallow with no strategy and almost all tactics. It travels well and plays fast, but it shows its age.
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Nov 18, 2014 00:37
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CNN Sports Ticker posted:Edit: What's a good intro to OCS games? I've got my eye on Korea: The Forgotten War as something that looks actually playable and has good reviews. It's a 3 mapper which you may or may not have trouble finding table space for. You'll definitely need to leave it out. Other than Reluctant Enemies, Tunisia is the best starter OCS game. Relatively low counter density, interesting terrain, and both players start with a bare handful of counters that grows at a fairly reasonable pace.
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Nov 18, 2014 00:43
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Lord Frisk posted:OGRE isn't bad for an introduction, and for three bucks its a steal. It offers some interesting tactics as the player defending against the OGRE can point-buy their army. The asymmetrical nature of 1 v many helped me introduce the genre to a few, as I'd just give them an ogre and tell them to kill the base. That does sound a little cool. I dunno, for some reason OGRE has just never grabbed me, probably because the OGRE things are just not identifiable as tanks in any way.
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Nov 18, 2014 00:57
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wins32767 posted:It's a 3 mapper which you may or may not have trouble finding table space for. You'll definitely need to leave it out. Other than Reluctant Enemies, Tunisia is the best starter OCS game. Relatively low counter density, interesting terrain, and both players start with a bare handful of counters that grows at a fairly reasonable pace. Realistically, I will never have the table space or the ability to leave it out I'd need for this game. Which is a shame. I've been reading about the Korean War because I know basically nothing and it's super interesting. On a somewhat related note (monster games), has anyone ever actually played The Campaign for North Africa?
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Nov 18, 2014 01:11
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I just played through Soviet Dawn during my lunch break, and it's a really fun ~30 minute filler. It's part of the "States of Siege" series by Victory Point Games. It is somewhat linear, but has great theme, and can have a very panicked Whack-a-Mole feel to it with all the different fronts encroaching in on you. Definitely recommended. Paid $20 for C3i magazine with Fire in the Lake on the cover, and this game was in it.
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Nov 18, 2014 19:56
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I got Fire in the Lake a while back and have tried playing solo a couple times, not that fun for me and would prefer a real game with 4 players. This last weekend I finally got some of my usual weekly board gaming group together to try it out for the first time. Took the advice of the playbook and ran through the tutorial before we started a game. It was a disaster. Now I'm pretty sure this mostly went poorly because of one of the players not paying attention, distracting everyone with youtube videos, and playing around with his phone the entire time. The two other players involved who actually tried to pay attention and learn what the tutorial was all about had some criticism for it: they disliked the fact that the entire tutorial was pre-set and they could not make any choices for what actions they took. Both said they would have preferred a small scenario set up on the board and then the freedom to play through it as they wanted, possibly with tips or what-ifs in the playbook for any possible choices that could be made. I thought the tutorial would be the best way to introduce everyone to the game, but that clearly didn't go as planned. We started an actual game after the tutorial was done and only got 7 rounds in before the lovely/distracting friend called it a night (because he wanted to go home and play video games). I should have seen ahead of time that things would not go well with him playing since he basically dismissed the game as "not fun" the moment he looked at the starting set up. He had chosen to be NVA and then got pissed off that they start the 1964-72 scenario with 12 guerrillas on the map instead of the "full army of troop cubes" he thought they should have. The game didn't match his views on "historical accuracy". (This guy comes from a military family, his dad worked as an adviser at the Pentagon, therefore he thinks he knows everything about military history and only his views are correct) tl;dr don't try to play wargames with lovely gaming friends. Does anyone have a suggestion for a better way to teach the game? Just explain the rules to them or what? My gaming friends seemed intimidated by FitL and thought it would be a bit too complicated before we started the tutorial. The two who actually played the game said they were just starting to understand it and get the hang of things when we finished for the night. Hopefully I can get them to give it another go but I think the bad experience of wasting several hours on the tutorial while the shitbird distracted us soured them on the game as a "too complex wargamey thing". 
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Nov 18, 2014 22:13
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FitL is pretty much the worst entry into the series, I'm afraid. It has lots of weird rule interactions between the factions which aren't immediately obvious. There's no way to easily teach it because not only do you have to tell people what they can do, but also what other people do. I would suggest the short scenario if you are to try again, though. I would also suggest that you ask people to read rules beforehand. Or find a copy of CL
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Nov 18, 2014 22:18
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Tekopo posted:Or find a copy of CL This is really the thing about GMT that irritates me the most. If you have a game system you're pushing, you need to keep an introductory title in print at all times when you can swing it. Letting intermediate or supplementary titles like ADP go out of print/into P500 is one thing. But refusing to keep one of Andean Abyss or Cuba Libre in print is just shooting themselves in the foot sales-wise, because it shuts new players out of the COIN system.
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Nov 18, 2014 23:09
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Gutter Owl posted:This is really the thing about GMT that irritates me the most. If you have a game system you're pushing, you need to keep an introductory title in print at all times when you can swing it. Eh, considering GMT print runs are roughly 3,000-5,000 copies, I don't think it's really feasible. We're a niche after all.
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Nov 18, 2014 23:16
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Yeah, GMT is one of the bigger wargame publishers out there but even for them it is not sustainable to keep stuff in print permanently. I mean even FFG doesn't have stuff in constant print (see for example the lack of X-Wing cores available until recently).
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Nov 18, 2014 23:42
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Tekopo posted:FitL is pretty much the worst entry into the series, I'm afraid. It has lots of weird rule interactions between the factions which aren't immediately obvious. There's no way to easily teach it because not only do you have to tell people what they can do, but also what other people do. I would suggest the short scenario if you are to try again, though. I would also suggest that you ask people to read rules beforehand. Or find a copy of CL So which do you think is the strongest one, Distant Plain?
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Nov 19, 2014 01:01
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Dre2Dee2 posted:So which do you think is the strongest one, Distant Plain? Best intro game is probably Cuba Libre or Andean Abyss, since they're simpler and smaller than ADP and FITL.
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Nov 19, 2014 04:32
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Oh oh, in terms of teaching people. I thought Tekpo meant FitL was the worst as in it was the least fun game
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Nov 19, 2014 14:55
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Dre2Dee2 posted:Oh oh, in terms of teaching people. I thought Tekpo meant FitL was the worst as in it was the least fun game No, it's a blast of a game! It's just the toughest to teach I have a 4-player PBEM game going right now which has 2 first-time players, and almost every single turn is like "no, no, you can't do that, because of this rule over here... no, there either. Yeah, I guess you could do that... wait, no, the rule says 'an', not 'any', so you only put one there."It's been going for a week and we're like 7 cards in.
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Nov 19, 2014 15:14
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Quick question - is there a consensus on the "best" large-scale game? I want something to play solo in VASSAL during slow times at work, and just keep a running save file going. I understand that the SCS system (Afrika, Bastogne, Stalingrad Pocket, etc.) is really well-liked and very approachable, how does it compare with the OCS system? Looks like Tunisia, Burma, and Case Blue are the top rated OCS games, but I know nothing about any in that system.
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Nov 19, 2014 15:21
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Gutter Owl posted:This is really the thing about GMT that irritates me the most. If you have a game system you're pushing, you need to keep an introductory title in print at all times when you can swing it. Letting intermediate or supplementary titles like ADP go out of print/into P500 is one thing. But refusing to keep one of Andean Abyss or Cuba Libre in print is just shooting themselves in the foot sales-wise, because it shuts new players out of the COIN system. Well there's a reprint of all the older COIN games scheduled for Q2 2015 so they're doing their best.
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Nov 19, 2014 16:08
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