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OzCavalier posted:Last time I played DnD was back in the old 2e days (prior to 2.5e even), so looks like I need to do a little bit of reading of this thread to get some idea of what the hell I'm doing in Doomykins' 4e thread. Honestly, I'd recommend you pick a role and then use multiclasses instead of hybrid. Possible combinations. Leader: Since there's only one other leader in the seven-person party then it's not a bad idea to be one. A Skald is a bard build that's perfectly functional if you go 18 Dex/18 Cha, and you can then multiclass as a rogue, assassin, or executioner. Skald aura also means that other party members can heal themselves instead of relying on your actions. Since there are a healthy amount of powers that are triggered on basic attacks to cater to the fact that you don't seem to like your at-wills very much. This would be my personal recommendation. Striker: The converse to this is to be a rogue or executioner (don't be an assassin, they're tough to get working correctly even if you're familiar with the game) and then multiclass into bard, then shank people from melee or range. You already have two other strikers in the party though. Rogues and (ninja) assassins are proficient with shuriken, though I wouldn't recommend you spend a feat on garrotes, since that involves grabbing people and that requires a build with good Strength as well (either Strength only for a Brawler fighter, or Str/Dex for everyone else). Garrotes are otherwise just crappier daggers if you don't have abilities that revolve around grabbing and holding people (shurikens are also crappier daggers because you're trading melee power for one square of range, wooo). You're also missing a theme. Themes provide additional powers and options, which are great.
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Nov 13, 2014 18:09
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Agent Boogeyman posted:their damage bonus isn't tied directly to their Sorc powers like virtually every other hybrid class ability. I thought the sorcerer's hybrid specifies it only working with sorcerer and sorcerer paragon powers, or are we mainly talking about the AC bonus? Burning Justice fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 18:42
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LightWarden posted:Garrotes are otherwise just crappier daggers if you don't have abilities that revolve around grabbing and holding people
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Nov 13, 2014 19:04
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Well now I want to do a gimmick adventure where everyone plays hybrids.
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Nov 13, 2014 19:11
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Allstone posted:I was of the impression that you literally couldn't use a garrote unless the power stated you could. Double-checking, that's correct, though the Garrote MC feat lets you use it with any rogue melee power that requires a light blade. Very much a gimmick weapon.
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Nov 13, 2014 19:16
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S.J. posted:Well now I want to do a gimmick adventure where everyone plays hybrids. Controller-Human Cleric|Invoker/Morning Lord Striker-Genasi Barbarian|Swordmage/Avenger/Sword of Assault Leader-Deva Shaman|Warlord/Flame of Hope Defender-Tiefling Swordmage|Warlock/Sigil Carver
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Nov 13, 2014 19:23
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ImpactVector posted:I've always wanted to try an assault swordmage|warlock teleport-stabber, but I'm usually the DM. They work out very well, especially once you grab Evermeet Warlock to go invisible on each teleport.
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Nov 13, 2014 19:39
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Burning Justice posted:I thought the sorcerer's hybrid specifies it only working with sorcerer and sorcerer paragon powers, or are we mainly talking about the AC bonus? Huh, just looked it up, and you're right. I wonder why I thought that then. The damage does only apply to Sorc powers. I think it was the AC thing though, which IS pretty drat nice, especially when you pair it with Unarmored Agility or something. Looking at it again though, I also remembered the setup of Barb/Sorc I specifically liked: Taking the Hybrid Talent "Soul of the Sorcerer" and choosing Soul of the Cosmic Cycle. Like, every single one of the phases does wonderful things for a Barbarian since they all tie into Strength. I can also see it pairing well with any other STR based front line classes. Also the Quarterstaff is a two-handed weapon as well as an implement. Give the Bar/Sorc Hybrid Staff Expertise and... away you go. It is true though, that every hybrid class, if you plan them out carefully, can make some pretty interesting combinations, but they require an advanced knowledge of the system before you should even look at them. I just disliked the Fighter hybrid because it guts their ability to Mark with basic attacks, making a Fighter that can mark at a distance or with opportunity attacks almost impossible to build. AXE COP posted:Actually you should always hybrid fighters with wizards because then you can use Beast Switch as a melee basic attack. Nothing quite like someone trying to run away from you getting turned into a frog for their troubles. Though I hadn't thought of this, that sounds hilarious. Also, did they ever fix the thing with Leader hybrids in which you only ever get one instance of a healing power an encounter ever? Being able to grant a surge use only once an encounter at Epic level seemed like a pretty raw deal. Agent Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 20:51
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Allstone posted:I was of the impression that you literally couldn't use a garrote unless the power stated you could. You can use whatever you're proficient in, but this doesn't mean you should--it's about what your class features and powers encourage you to do. Most classes have a very short list of weapons they should be using, and the garrote was basically added for the use of assassins.
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Nov 13, 2014 21:06
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:You can use whatever you're proficient in, but this doesn't mean you should--it's about what your class features and powers encourage you to do. Most classes have a very short list of weapons they should be using, and the garrote was basically added for the use of assassins. Nah, it's literally a property of the garrote that "the only attacks you can make with a garrote are ones that require or allow its use."
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Nov 13, 2014 21:09
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I think my favorite dumb hybrid was a vampire/cleric I made. And while that sounds dumb, it worked, just because I went Revenant so it was a pain in the rear end to kill me. I buffed myself to never be able to fail death saves. Honestly, I love her more just for her concept than for the classes. She's the unluckiest woman in the world. So she's become a zombie vampire werewolf vampire cleric vampire who is really difficult to kill.
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Nov 13, 2014 21:47
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Agent Boogeyman posted:It is true though, that every hybrid class, if you plan them out carefully, can make some pretty interesting combinations, but they require an advanced knowledge of the system before you should even look at them. I just disliked the Fighter hybrid because it guts their ability to Mark with basic attacks, making a Fighter that can mark at a distance or with opportunity attacks almost impossible to build. The nice thing about hybrid fighter is that it's easier to patch its deficiencies than most hybrid classes--your mark punishment doesn't bind you to a special marking ability, so grab a couple marking powers and you can do your fighter thing even while you're busy rangering or whatever.
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Nov 13, 2014 23:52
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And even that is assuming you're hybriding fighter to be a defender. 'Cause you absolutely don't have to do that!
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Nov 13, 2014 23:58
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Trip report: For Friday night's session I ripped off a vault map from Fallout 3 and filled it was suits of decayed power armor acting under the whims of a crazed artificial intelligence that mocked the players and hosed with them whenever possible. The elevator played an instrumental version of Girl From Ipanema. Lights would randomly cut out, recordings of soldiers' screams and so forth rang through the halls, doors would lock, then unlock and so on. When they first boarded the elevator, the AI told them their patrol was 5,217 years, 203 days, 4 hours and 9 minutes late, and to see their commanding officer for reprimand. Each time the players swore at he AI for loving with them, they were fined 10 credits. To procure a magical discus that held the civilization's history (a holotape) they had to bust into the generator room, restore power to the rest of the base, find the passcode on the corpse of the commander (he had been locked into the food storage area by the AI but starved to death because he didn't have a can opener), get into his office, and destroy the AI's cooling tower. The AI downloaded itself into an unbeatable warmachine which chased the players through the base until they backtracked to the assembly line room. There they could have either repaired, aimed and fired a large mana cannon or open the scrap melting pool. They went for the pool, and destroyed the warmachine Terminator 2 style. After it died, the self-destruct sequence triggered and they had to get out using the stairs in under 3 minutes, running just outside before the whole thing collapsed wonderfully. Highlight of the night though was the game room they found. When asked what was in there, I jokingly said a crane game with a beholder toy in it. So of course that became a priority to find tokens to feed into the drat thing till they got it. They ran outta tokens, the druid turned into a squirrel, went up the chute to drag it out but couldn't, so now they had to save her AND get the beholder and oh god. Everyone had a good time. I'm really happy being able to actual make my own adventure and having the monsters/treasure be the easiest thing to whip up.
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Nov 17, 2014 17:27
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crime fighting hog posted:Highlight of the night though was the game room they found. When asked what was in there, I jokingly said a crane game with a beholder toy in it. So of course that became a priority to find tokens to feed into the drat thing till they got it. They ran outta tokens, the druid turned into a squirrel, went up the chute to drag it out but couldn't, so now they had to save her AND get the beholder and oh god. e: actually I was going to place dwarven artifacts around the world way in advance of that, claw machine might as well be one of the first. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Nov 17, 2014 |
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Nov 17, 2014 17:30
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They got both of them out when the rogue lockpicked the token bank to get ONE. LAST. TRY. and rolled high on three dex checks with the squirrel helping stabilize the claw. Now I gotta make the drat toy worth something. Since this is at Magic the Gathering campaign, I'll make it a dumb artifact, like a null rod or something.
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Nov 17, 2014 17:37
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It is an Elder Beholder which was transmuted and stripped of its magic. That thing wasn't a crane game but a highly secure holding facility / torture chamber, which is why it was so hard to win. It will trade them information on the place they just looted and others like it in exchange for the help it needs to return to full power.
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Nov 18, 2014 09:18
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Whybird posted:It is an Elder Beholder which was transmuted and stripped of its magic. That thing wasn't a crane game but a highly secure holding facility / torture chamber, which is why it was so hard to win. It will trade them information on the place they just looted and others like it in exchange for the help it needs to return to full power. Oh man. It can only talk when a string is pulled on its back. Was under experimentation at the base after being found by a mysterious trader. Talks about how a mad wizard captured him many years ago, turning the beholder and other monsters into toys for fun, and to be turned back they need to go find that wizard's lab. But then the PCs are turned to tiny toys themselves and forced to play a most devious, hellish game... Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition. I dunno if my players will hate me or enjoy it.
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Nov 18, 2014 18:18
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crime fighting hog posted:Oh man. It can only talk when a string is pulled on its back. Was under experimentation at the base after being found by a mysterious trader. Talks about how a mad wizard captured him many years ago, turning the beholder and other monsters into toys for fun, and to be turned back they need to go find that wizard's lab. Sort of related, I got my paranoia players to play fiasco under the guise of "an adventure into a holodeck." Although I suppose it helps that paranoia actively supports loving around with the rules.
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Nov 18, 2014 18:45
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Drewjitsu posted:Sort of related, I got my paranoia players to play fiasco under the guise of "an adventure into a holodeck." Although I suppose it helps that paranoia actively supports loving around with the rules. I'm seriously considering this now after this next adventure. I'm tempted to have them play a mini-game in the game but don't want to completely grind it to a halt learning a different RPG. We're level 15. Perhaps I'll just give them level 1 sheets of the most stereotypical characters and have em clear a dungeon. I could of sworn I saw this from one of the Fable games, but I try not to remember the sequels.
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Nov 18, 2014 19:39
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Started writing up guard powers- mostly fighter rewordings but I have hope that as I get more used to the ad hoc formulae I'll be able to come up with more original ones with similar effects. (I'm trying to simplify some of the weapon specific ones though). Observation- a lot of fighter powers would be good for a pro wrestler type if you gave them something to bypass the "requires weapon" bit. Feat or class/theme feature? (I'm trying to really limit growth of the former.)
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Nov 19, 2014 19:05
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Honestly, most of them will do fine if you let the player use the Alhulak weapon and a shield, and refluff that as being empty hands.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:28
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Maxwell Lord posted:Observation- a lot of fighter powers would be good for a pro wrestler type if you gave them something to bypass the "requires weapon" bit. Feat or class/theme feature? Worth noting that even when you're unarmed you're technically wielding an improvised weapon (no proficiency bonus and 1d4 damage, so not all that great).
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Nov 19, 2014 19:29
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Hey, been the go-to GM for quite a while in my group and I can't really stand any other edition of D&D. I have a group of 4 (sometimes 5) level 1 adventurers, and I am using mastermind as has been suggested. It has been a long slog manually adding in a bunch of monsters as it seems it does not come with any libraries. I have 2 major questions: 1. Has anyone tried the encounter deck suggested in the DMG? It seems like a neat idea but I am not sure if the range of monster levels it includes would work that well, and just adding in an extra monster when you draw a soldier or brute seems like it would make things kinda hard. 2. How do you speed up fights? My biggest issue with 4e is how long the fights and rounds take, I use the new MM3 math to alleviate some of the problem, but do you guys have any tricks you use that helps at your table?
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Nov 19, 2014 19:46
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axelsoar posted:I have a group of 4 (sometimes 5) level 1 adventurers, and I am using mastermind as has been suggested. It has been a long slog manually adding in a bunch of monsters as it seems it does not come with any libraries. Get an Insider subscription, and use the plugin mentioned in the OP to mass import all the fantasy assholes you need. axelsoar posted:2. How do you speed up fights? My biggest issue with 4e is how long the fights and rounds take, I use the new MM3 math to alleviate some of the problem, but do you guys have any tricks you use that helps at your table? When it's clear that there are not enough enemies left to pose a threat any more, just end the fight (they run away, or just assume that the PCs mop them up).
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Nov 19, 2014 20:13
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My Lovely Horse posted:I'd just reflavour that to anything a pro wrestler type would have. Mask, championship belt, steel chair, or hell, let him go empty-handed and just put the "can't use hand for other actions" limitation a weapon would impose into place (because he needs his hands to wrestle with). Just make something up and say "counts as an axe/heavy blade/whatever." Multiclass monk for Unarmed Combatant, and take Improved Monk Unarmed Strike to make it a d10 weapon. Now you've got a +3 d10 unarmed attack. I basically built Zangief as a fighter like that. Just gotta use inherent bonuses.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:38
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axelsoar posted:2. How do you speed up fights? My biggest issue with 4e is how long the fights and rounds take, I use the new MM3 math to alleviate some of the problem, but do you guys have any tricks you use that helps at your table? Avoid using soldiers where possible, encourage players to play strikers... Back in the day I read this guide and it was pretty helpful.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:42
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Maxwell Lord posted:Started writing up guard powers- mostly fighter rewordings but I have hope that as I get more used to the ad hoc formulae I'll be able to come up with more original ones with similar effects. (I'm trying to simplify some of the weapon specific ones though). You understand that there is a pro-wrestling class in the game, complete with amazing feat support right? It's a little out dated, because you should now multi-class monk (The Master of the Fist feat) to get improved unarmed strike (which is +3 prof bonus to hit, instead of spiked guantlets being +2, as well as getting Ki Focuses), but here you go: http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2690866 You basically hit people with your fists, then hold on to them, then knock them prone. I don't need to tell you how you can describe this in any number of ways via a pro wrestling moveset. Clotheslines, suplexes, piledrivers, powerbombs...it's all there waiting for you to take advantage of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Igui65gY5M (I used this exact character, plus the monk multiclass. He was Georges St. Pierre, fresh off his knee surgery, waking up in a fantasy land. It was pretty great, and the character itself is a tremendous single target lockdown defender. You are also very, very, accurate.) Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 20:50
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quote:2. How do you speed up fights? My biggest issue with 4e is how long the fights and rounds take, I use the new MM3 math to alleviate some of the problem, but do you guys have any tricks you use that helps at your table? When the fight has obviously broken the PCs' way permanently, end the fight.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:51
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Drewjitsu posted:(I used this exact character, plus the monk multiclass. He was Georges St. Pierre, fresh off his knee surgery, waking up in a fantasy land. It was pretty great, and the character itself is a tremendous single target lockdown defender. You are also very, very, accurate.)
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Nov 19, 2014 20:54
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axelsoar posted:
1. As has been suggested already, end fights early in surrender or fleeing. 2. Consider upping monster damage and lowering monster HP. 3. Avoid using monsters the party can't hit. 4. Use Stun and Dominate sparingly, unless you want the fight to move more quickly toward a TPK 5. Pre-roll a bunch of d20s so the first N rolls are already done. In more houseruley-territory, there is: 6. Consider using an Escalation Die a la 13th Age. 7. Consider using static damage for more things. 8. Consider making Second Wind a minor for non-dwarves and free for dwarves.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:05
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ImpactVector posted:I did the same thing once, but imagined him more like "Kevin Sorbo as Hercules". Using Dual Strike to knock two dudes' heads together is the best. I am firmly convinced that the Brawler Fighter is the "best"(TM) character in 4e, just for the amount of goofy poo poo that you can get away with, entirely supported by the ruleset. You want to grab that dragon and piledrive him into the ground? No problem! You want to sit on him, preventing him from standing up, because you're such a supreme badass? gently caress yeah you can! Take that you stupid caster classes! 
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Nov 19, 2014 21:05
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Brawler's conceptually great and shoudl be fantastic fun to play, but mechanically doesn't add much, because absolutely locking down a single target... just isn't actually that useful when it occupies all your actions to do so. Unless you're doing it to a solo, you're probably not adding much to the fight that isn't taken away by the monster that's there because you are. Brawlers basically need a little more to be competitive. And yeah, on swifter fights: call it early, use average damages. It's really telling for me how much more quickly things went in the LFR Epic campaign when I stopped bothering to roll damage.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:11
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Playing a level 25 fighter, I spent a bunch of effort getting my character focus, doing combo push/daze/prone stuff, just right. Then we start playing and it ends up that mass marking, CAGI, and Warrior's Urging are basically all I have to do on my Marshal of Letherna (if you get pulled into next to me you are hosed), and by the time I've gone through all those, the fight is generally over. In three fights I have never had to push anyone.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:15
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I played a Brawler Fighter here on the forums as Mr. T, and it was probably the most fun I've had playing D&D.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:25
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Drewjitsu posted:You understand that there is a pro-wrestling class in the game, complete with amazing feat support right? First things first I actually posted that in the wrong thread. I'm doing a 4e retroclone with a space opera flavor and meant to post it in the retrocloning 4e thread but I'm getting a few good pieces of advice here. Monks have the whole tie to psionics, and while that's mostly flavor I'm going to be focusing them much more on Wisdom. (All classes are much more tied to a single stat, with most of their powers keying off it, with the expectation that that stat will be at least a 16. Backgrounds/themes are being expanded to handle more of the non-combat material so you're effectively combining three things instead of two.) That might work for some brawler/wrestler types but not all. In rethinking the fighter/guard class (the archetypes I'm thinking of for inspiration are characters like Chewbacca, Groot, Lt. Worf) it makes sense that they inherently work unarmed pretty well, they're not as weapon-dependent as their D&D counterparts. For some alien species it makes sense to give them a "natural weapon" feature but basically all of them are kind of brawlers already. Also the default multiclass monk feat doesn't seem to actually give Unarmed Combatant. I'm going to look closely at those too since I want feats to be way cut back. Specifically I was thinking Comeback Strike, without a weapon, is basically Hogan hulking out. I'm looking for the best way to present that as an option. (Specifically because in the fluff I've come up with one alien race that resolves political conflicts through what is effectively pro wrestling.)
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Nov 20, 2014 00:21
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Maxwell Lord posted:Also the default multiclass monk feat doesn't seem to actually give Unarmed Combatant. I'm going to look closely at those too since I want feats to be way cut back. The monk multiclass feat is "master of the fist" from dragon 404 (I think). It gives unarmed combatant and ki focus prof. You might want to look at the Gladiator theme, as it has a strong "play to the crowd" feel to it, which is what you're going for vis a vis pro wrestling. Still, the mechanics for grappling are pretty acceptable in 4e. All you need is a player to buy into the fluff and start bodyslamming fools left and right.
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Nov 20, 2014 01:39
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AXE COP posted:Yeah my pvp experience was a 5v5 ctf match Korlac ran on the forums some time ago. It was admittedly fun despite the horrendous imbalance (but I suppose having a respawn mechanic helped that). gently caress Stealth, gently caress Running, and gently caress every other obscure that players dig up during PvP
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Nov 20, 2014 02:50
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How exactly do I add the insider add-in to Masterplan? I have the download I am just not sure what to do with it. Edit: Never-mind, I just had to RTFM. Ash Rose fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 08:11
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I am not sure if this is the thread for this, but would this be the place to run home-brew monsters past people?
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Nov 20, 2014 18:22
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