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opposing counsel uses aol e-mail address. over under bet on how long before I get an e-mail in comic sans?
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Nov 19, 2014 17:33
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mikeraskol posted:
Law schools attended by people in that article: Yale, Harvard, NYU, U of M, UVA... it's almost like there is a pattern...
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Nov 19, 2014 17:33
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this article
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ActusRhesus posted:opposing counsel uses aol e-mail address. I got one in Papyrus once.
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Nov 19, 2014 17:37
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evilweasel posted:At the schools you were suggesting you'd go to you'd have wretched job prospects. Maybe they're exceptions but the lawyers I know down here went to like SC/UGA/Emory/Florida/Kentucky. Vandy seems to be the best one in the region but the people I know there mostly got the hell out of the South. That's why I'm asking in this thread and not those people, though. I brought up Georgia State only because ATL listed it in the top 50 when the weighed for career opportunities. They have UGA 19th. tadashi fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 17:43
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tadashi posted:Maybe they're exceptions but I know a lot of lawyers down here and all of them went to like SC/UGA/Emory/Florida/Kentucky. Vandy seems to be the best one in the region but the people I know there mostly got the hell out of the South. That's why I'm asking in this thread and not those people, though. I brought up Georgia State only because ATL listed it in the top 50 when the weighed for career opportunities. Anyone you know that is a lawyer down there more than likely went to those schools. That's not the point. What you aren't seeing is the thousands of other people who went to those schools that don't have jobs. You aren't seeing the amount of debt that people have coming out of a school like Emory or Vandy, the three years of salary lost while you are at law school instead of working, and the more than likely crappy salary that you are going to land at a job from one of those schools. Edit: Maybe people are being slightly too negative here. My advice would be to talk to one or all of these lawyers that you know about what they do on a day-to-day basis. And I mean everything they do, no whitewashed bullshit. Then sit down and think about whether this is a career you actually want to do, or are you just using law school as a placeholder because you don't know what else to do. If you really want to be a lawyer, start prepping your rear end off for the LSAT. If you do well enough there where you can get into a top school, or a good local school with a solid scholarship that isn't based on where you finish in your class, it could be worth it. If you don't get either of those, don't go. mikeraskol fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 17:46
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tadashi posted:Be a lawyer rather than going to law school in order to work in journalism, nonprofit managment, or anything you might find on this list: http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/law-admissions-lowdown/2012/01/23/5-unique-career-paths-for-law-school-grads You don't get to do the challenging stuff. That goes to the badass attorneys with tons of experience. You will be proofreading.
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Nov 19, 2014 17:48
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mikeraskol posted:Anyone you know that is a lawyer down there more than likely went to those schools. That's not the point. What you aren't seeing is the thousands of other people who went to those schools that don't have jobs. You aren't seeing the amount of debt that people have coming out of a school like Emory or Vandy, the three years of salary lost while you are at law school instead of working, and the more than likely crappy salary that you are going to land at a job from one of those schools. Even though I know there is a gimmick to this thread, it is a good gimmick. What I need to see in order to pursue being a lawyer is to feel like I can't find a reason me not to become one. I am reminded of many reasons I should not just in the last few pages. My least successful lawyer friend who went to a 2nd/3rd tier school has also volunteered many good reasons not to do it after asking him about it again.
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Nov 19, 2014 17:57
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ActusRhesus posted:opposing counsel uses aol e-mail address. I'll set the line at 48 hours from the first time you email his paralegal. I got a [1st][InitialLastname]77@verizon.net the other day.
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Nov 19, 2014 17:57
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ActusRhesus posted:opposing counsel uses aol e-mail address. I've seen formal demand letters in Comic Sans. I've also gotten a cover letter from an applicant in what I think was Algerian font. Oh yes, and cover letters with tracked changes from somebody else.
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Nov 19, 2014 17:58
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Bro Enlai posted:I've seen formal demand letters in Comic Sans. I've also gotten a cover letter from an applicant in what I think was Algerian font. Oh yes, and cover letters with tracked changes from somebody else. my only experience with track changes in the legal world was as follows: Partner: I need you to do a revision on this motion (written by another associate) and I need to know the changes you've made. Me: OK. *Revises motion in track changes. Prints two versions, one clean, one with changes visible.* Partner: WHAT ARE ALL THESE REDLINES? WE'RE LITIGATORS, NOT CONTRACT ATTORNEYS! WE DON'T DO REDLINES! WRITE ME A MEMO!!!!! I thank god every day for the
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Nov 19, 2014 18:04
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tadashi posted:Everyone I know who has gone to law school has told me they ended up with a different focus than they expected. I expect I'd be looking at IP, corporate, or real estate as those are the three areas that interest me the most from an outside perspective. My justification for looking at law school is that, if I'm basically capped at a certain income for the rest of my life, I would rather make a certain amount of money doing something I find challenging and work with people who challenge me. you're not qualified for IP
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Nov 19, 2014 18:09
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:you're not qualified for IP *nods* The people from my class who went IP all had masters degrees or PhDs in some STEM discipline and were in the top 10% of the class.
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Nov 19, 2014 18:13
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Bro Enlai posted:I've seen formal demand letters in Comic Sans. I've also gotten a cover letter from an applicant in what I think was Algerian font. Oh yes, and cover letters with tracked changes from somebody else. Not a cover letter or anything, but I was once forced to work with someone who used Heavy Heap for their email font, as well as for a handful of professional documents (including their CV). You probably don't know what Heavy Heap is, because it is literally one of the worst fonts ever designed that actually has letters instead of pictures:  I have no idea what damage someone must have suffered to decide this is a good font that represents them well.
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Nov 19, 2014 18:27
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This thread does not have a gimmick. We legitimately recommend that people not go to law school because for a large portion of us, our friends, or colleagues, it has been a terrible decision. We're not saying this to discourage anyone out of anything but true hatred for the entire system we're stuck as a part of. The horrible moments outweigh the "I'm a badass lawyer" moments by orders of magnitude. You should not go to law school unless you are 100% comfortable with the very real possibility of working as a solo practitioner, hustling family law amd criminal clients, earning less than 30,000/year. If you can honestly say "I'm okay with doing that," then knock yourself out. Otherwise, the risks far outweigh the advantages. For every HYS grad, there's 100 valpo grads eating alpo.
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Nov 19, 2014 18:42
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I'm a UGA grad and after two years I'm delightfully out of the profession and studying STEM. Tadashi if you want to PM me about UGA go ahead. I will say in advance that my three years at UGA law were the three most miserable of my life, beating out the two years I spent watching my mother die to leukemia.
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Nov 19, 2014 18:57
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Soylent Pudding posted:I will say in advance that my three years at UGA law were the three most miserable of my life, beating out the two years I spent watching my mother die to leukemia. Add to op please.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:01
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Soylent Pudding posted:I'm a UGA grad and after two years I'm delightfully out of the profession and studying STEM. Tadashi if you want to PM me about UGA go ahead. I will say in advance that my three years at UGA law were the three most miserable of my life, beating out the two years I spent watching my mother die to leukemia. I kind of want to give you a hug now. seriously...way to sucker punch me into showing human emotion.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:05
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Soylent Pudding posted:I'm a UGA grad and after two years I'm delightfully out of the profession and studying STEM. Tadashi if you want to PM me about UGA go ahead. I will say in advance that my three years at UGA law were the three most miserable of my life, beating out the two years I spent watching my mother die to leukemia. Jesus christ.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:17
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:This thread does not have a gimmick. We legitimately recommend that people not go to law school because for a large portion of us, our friends, or colleagues, it has been a terrible decision. We're not saying this to discourage anyone out of anything but true hatred for the entire system we're stuck as a part of. The horrible moments outweigh the "I'm a badass lawyer" moments by orders of magnitude. He's not kidding. I made 30k last year as a solo.
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Nov 19, 2014 19:22
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:This thread does not have a gimmick. We legitimately recommend that people not go to law school because for a large portion of us, our friends, or colleagues, it has been a terrible decision. We're not saying this to discourage anyone out of anything but true hatred for the entire system we're stuck as a part of. The horrible moments outweigh the "I'm a badass lawyer" moments by orders of magnitude. Cannot say this enough. I enjoy my job a lot, but I also make $40k. I'm okay with this; I appreciate the health insurance, time off, and low stress of the job. But I also got REALLY lucky finding this position (I consider $40k lucky at this point). Getting it was preceded by two years of underemployment, unemployment, living with my parents, and crushing depression. Before I got my current offer, I was going to sign on as an associate with a plaintiff's civil litigation firm for $36k and no benefits. Just because there was absolutely nothing else. This is not unusual among my former classmates. A very few made it into biglaw. Many are in lovely civil litigation or mortgage foreclosure mills. Some are solos working 7 days a week. One of them is a general manger at a store that sells school uniforms. A Game of Chess fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 19:32
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Adar, I went click happy through your links and found the posts from the Yale/Harvard/my LSAT dick is bigger than yours guy. Please tell me he still posts.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:04
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tadashi posted:Even though I know there is a gimmick to this thread, it is a good gimmick. What I need to see in order to pursue being a lawyer is to feel like I can't find a reason me not to become one. I am reminded of many reasons I should not just in the last few pages. My least successful lawyer friend who went to a 2nd/3rd tier school has also volunteered many good reasons not to do it after asking him about it again. There is a big difference between not seeing a reason to not be a lawyer and having a compelling reason to be one. I'm very familiar with the Atlanta legal market. I went to Emory for law school, and my girlfriend went to a similarly ranked law school. She works as a corporate associate for one of the top firms in town, and I'm a clerk for a district court judge. While we had good outcomes, we both know tons of people with staggering amounts of debt and basically no job prospects. That alone is a plenty good reason to not be a lawyer. Plus the Atlanta market is dead unless you're a corporate associate with 2-5 years of experience. Of course, that's totally independent of whether you'd enjoy the work. My girlfriend was at the office from 7-11:30 yesterday. She spent almost the entirety of her day summarizing material contracts and drafting signature pages. I spent my day drafting an order about whether "costs of the action" should be considered "damages" or "costs" in this federal statute with a poorly worded civil cause of action. The draft is 28 pages. Yeah, we both do cool stuff, but there's a lot of extremely tedious work that has to be done perfectly in there too. My recommendation is help your buddy out with some work for a month or two on the weekends. The best way to find out whether you want to be a lawyer is to do legal work. You have a job, so you can't really work as a paralegal or whatever, but you're an idiot if you don't spend a good chunk of time engaging with actual legal work rather than some notional concept about what attorneys do. Also, you shouldn't be an attorney if you're not willing to set aside 8-12 hours of your weekend as a test run. I enjoyed law school and I love my current job, but the number of people I know who are happy with their decision to go to law school is minuscule compared to the number of people who regret it. For example, here's what happened to the people from my high school who went to law school: 1. HYS, going to work at a super elite firm (wachtell or a susman Godfrey level boutique). Good if you have no interests in life other than billing hours and money, has ongoing issues with anxiety and depression 2. Georgetown, lobbyist 3. Boston college, unemployed and no desire to practice 4. Stetson, unemployed and no desire to practice 5. St. Thomas, doubling down on his bad decision by getting an LLM in tax at a bad school 6. Harvard JD/MBA, no interest in practicing law, just wants the JD for shits and giggles, will work in private equity or finance after he graduates. 7. Pepperdine, working at a lovely divorce firm, hates it 8. UF, unemployed 9. UF, regional mid law firm but hates it 10. GW, couldn't get a job, had a mental breakdown and was briefly institutionalized 11. Miami, job with a lovely medmal defense firm, don't know whether she likes it
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Nov 19, 2014 20:23
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What happened to that Harvard dude that posted in this thread that had a mental breakdown of sorts and was in some drug addict halfway house?
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Nov 19, 2014 20:28
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mikeraskol posted:What happened to that Harvard dude that posted in this thread that had a mental breakdown of sorts and was in some drug addict halfway house? He's a sovereign citizen now, I guess?
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Nov 19, 2014 20:59
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Even though I like my job and get paid decently (not great), I'm thinking about just hanging around until my state retirement vests (3 more years!) and applying to a 10-month Masters in Analytics program. If you're thinking about law school, maybe just skip the middleman and do that instead.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:00
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Omerta where (region) did you go to hs? I'm literally the only person from my graduating class to go to grad school, let alone law school after that.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:01
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Tadashi, you said you do something IT related, right? Go work your butt off networking to find an IT position internal to a decently sized lawfirm. It will give you a close up view of lawyering and if you do decide to go to law school you'll have a huge leg up with professional networking.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:03
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CaptainScraps posted:He's not kidding. I made 30k last year as a solo. Yeah but you get to litigate and build Lego dicks.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:07
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ActusRhesus posted:*nods* The people from my class who went IP all had masters degrees or PhDs in some STEM discipline and were in the top 10% of the class. You can do it with a bachelors in an engineering discipline (IT does not count) and experience as an engineer, though an advanced degree helps for sure. I went the BS+experience route. CaptainScraps posted:You don't get to do the challenging stuff. That goes to the badass attorneys with tons of experience. And with my BS+experience, now working at a large IP lit firm, today I spent 3 hours going through our invalidity trial evidence and writing down which pages we have already decided we want to use so that we can file a notice telling the court which pages we want to use at trial. Doing IP litigation is great.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:16
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Yeah but you get to litigate and build Lego dicks. I got paid with a sword today, fuckers. A good day. I am not going to post what I made this year. Don't ask. G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 21:43
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CaptainScraps posted:I got paid with a sword today, fuckers. A good day. Please point on the doll to indicate where your client thrust his sword.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:53
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CaptainScraps posted:I got paid with a sword today, fuckers. A good day. Goon clients?
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Nov 19, 2014 22:04
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Do you also accept M'ladys?
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Nov 19, 2014 22:06
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from the Michael brown thread:Anorexic Sea Turtle posted:Here's a topic of actual discussion: I AM OUTRAGED ABOUT SOMETHING I CLEARLY DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!!!!! Also lulzworthy: But they're just reading instructions on the law to the grand jury but not suggesting charges. Uhm...
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Nov 19, 2014 22:37
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Come and play my lord
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Nov 19, 2014 22:39
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ActusRhesus posted:I AM OUTRAGED ABOUT SOMETHING I CLEARLY DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!!!!! D&D in a nutshell, really.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:46
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How do I bill playing master of iron for three hours today?
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Nov 19, 2014 23:10
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ActusRhesus posted:opposing counsel uses aol e-mail address. Our court has people on staff who use comic sans. For letters. I cringe. (I've been using Century lately, but it won't print in italics unless I save it as a PDF and then print the PDF. So I might be in the market for something new.)
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Nov 19, 2014 23:34
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tadashi posted:Even though I know there is a gimmick to this thread, it is a good gimmick. What I need to see in order to pursue being a lawyer is to feel like I can't find a reason me not to become one. I am reminded of many reasons I should not just in the last few pages. My least successful lawyer friend who went to a 2nd/3rd tier school has also volunteered many good reasons not to do it after asking him about it again. Basically what he posted is absolutely correct. There are people from those schools who go on to become successful lawyers every single year. The issue is, there's not very many of them compared to the number that go. Your reason for wanting to go to law school essentially boils down to you want to be successful and work with other successful people. You have a very low chance of doing that going to those schools, much less than other options you have open to you (and here I'm not just defining success as $$$). If you always wanted to be a lawyer and you just must be a lawyer then it could start looking better, but you don't really seem to have that: you seem like you would be very unhappy as a relatively unsuccessful lawyer. This isn't like being a doctor where as long as you graduate, you're set. Honestly you seem to just have that sort of ennui where you don't know what you want to do with your life, which is completely understandable. The issue is, the people who get into law because of that are universally miserable. The other thing is you seem like you're at least 30-35: you've got 10 years of experience, college, and an MBA. So you're going to what, spend three years in law school, a few years minimum learning on the job, and you're what, 40-45? You're now stuck, you're too old to change careers. This is about your last shot at it so find what you really want to do, and do that. If you have no idea, stick with what you're doing now: you have an infinitely greater chance of success with 10 years of experience in a field than as an aspiring lawyer. You will also have an incredibly difficult time getting a job not just because it's difficult getting a job because you got a BA in theater, then did network management, then got an MBA and (i assume) went back to network management. You're going to come off as someone who is just bouncing around looking for something and who is unlikely to stay. That's death as a new lawyer because people out of law school know nothing: your first job is basically investing in you hoping you'll stick around once you become useful. If I'm reading what I imagine your resume looks like, it'd get binned no matter what your experience is because I think you'd get dissatisfied and leave within a few years. My suggestion for you would be to look to join a start-up company or the like. You've got background that will be useful, it'll be challenging as all hell, and if you're tired of it the company will probably go under soon anyway so you go find a new one. And if you want to go do something else, that won't look aimless it'll look like you took a shot at something that didn't pay off.
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