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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:He means the person who will tell you they find playing Germans in WW2 #problematic, but have no such qualms about playing another faction which was also equally lovely during that period. OK, that's fair enough then.  My workaround for that is to just play Soviets vs. Germans all the time. There, now you have two equally horrible and oppressive regimes duking it out! 
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Nov 19, 2014 20:19
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Regarde Aduck posted:I humbly suggest that such a person should not be playing historical war games then. Wanting to play war but then getting into a CARE-OFF about Nazis just means you're confused at best and a big gay baby at worst. And as you're all goons here i'm afraid it's likely to be terminal gay babyism. It's probably because im a big gay jewish baby, but the reason I don't want to get into wargames is poo poo like this.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:24
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Is it a big thing in historicals to have shared collections, or something? For example, in wh40k, I don't want to play Eldar, so I don't collect them, and as a result...I never have to play Eldar? I really doubt there are any people who outright refuse to play a game if it means they have to be the Nazis so much as 'I have the option to not be the Nazis and as a result I will take that option'.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:30
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Is it a big thing in historicals to have shared collections, or something? I think it's more that in most WWII wargames, the European Theater seems to be the main source of material for rules, minis, etc. So when most people get together to play a WWII-era game, it's usually "Our Brave Allies vs. The Natzi Bastards" and that doesn't leave you with a lot of options as to who gets to play what, when compared to WHFB, 40k, WM/H, etc.
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Nov 19, 2014 20:41
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Also no, it is not identical to play the nazis vs. playing, say, the french, or the americans, or the italians, or the russians. "Everyone did bad things" is a terrible whitewash/historical equivalence/utter bullshit, and completely misses the point. The point is that it's OK to be uncomfortable with some things and not others. There might be personal reasons. You don't have to get on someone's case because they are conflicted about certain things. Most importantly, a gamer who has preferences different from yours, is not a challenge to your own preferences. This poo poo: Regarde Aduck posted:I humbly suggest that such a person should not be playing historical war games then. Wanting to play war but then getting into a CARE-OFF about Nazis just means you're confused at best and a big gay baby at worst. And as you're all goons here i'm afraid it's likely to be terminal gay babyism. Is completely unnecessary. Yes, OK, if someone is being aggressive about not only not wanting to own a Nazi army themselves, but like, attacking you for choosing to build a german force instead of/in addition to your other scenario-appropriate forces, fine, they're being an rear end in a top hat. But if all that's going on is them choosing not to own a particular force, for whatever personal reasons, but still participate in the game? gently caress you, that's their prerogative and who the gently caress are you to judge. It's not "terminal gay babyism" to have actual feelings about war and tragedy and let those feelings affect your choices in a game that you still are willing and interested in playing. It's just "being a human being." This is a terrible, hosed up derail, too. Why can't we just point and laugh at people plastering swastikas on their toys without going off on rants about how anyone who collects historical germans is either a secret nazi or a big gay baby? Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 20:54
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Was there a person in the history of gaming who got white guilt over Rorke's Drift?
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Nov 19, 2014 21:02
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Lichtenstein posted:Was there a person in the history of gaming who got white guilt over Rorke's Drift? I can't remember the user name but there was someone in the 40k thread who would not shut the gently caress up any time the Imperial Guard Praetorians regiment was brought up. The Praetorians being red-coated, pith helmet-wearing British Army analogues produced specifically for a giant diorama of 'Ork's Rift' where they were besieged by space Orks.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:09
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Is it a big thing in historicals to have shared collections, or something? In general with most historical games that aren't Flames of War (or maybe Bolt Action depending on your area) the oft repeated advice is to own both sides of the conflict. Because it's rare to find someone who also owns a 15mm ECW army to fight yours but its not rare to find someone who would be interested in fighting that battle if you had the stuff for them to use.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:12
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:I can't remember the user name but there was someone in the 40k thread who would not shut the gently caress up any time the Imperial Guard Praetorians regiment was brought up. The Praetorians being red-coated, pith helmet-wearing British Army analogues produced specifically for a giant diorama of 'Ork's Rift' where they were besieged by space Orks. Complete with a published scenario in White Dwarf. And fortunately they actually named the display "Massacre at Big Toof River" instead.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:14
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Leperflesh posted:No but you see, if I collect hundreds of toy soldiers representing the forces of Nazi Germany, but someone else finds that they personally would not want to, that means they're judging me and that makes me uncomfortable. And since I know I'm not doing anything wrong, it must be something wrong with them. How else can I resolve this cognitive dissonance? I'm not sure at what point the conversation transitioned from people modeling anachronistic and gratuitous swastikas in 40K for no real reason to people who enthusiastically play Germans in historicals, and what side of that border each poster planted his or her banner on, so pardon me if I'm misinterpreting you or anyone else--but it seems like the tone here in the thread has come pretty close to calling badwrongthink on anybody who plays Waffen-SS (or whatever) without sufficient handwringing about it, which is a bit further beyond "find[ing] that they personally would not want to." It seems weird to me to have no idea why someone who wants to play the Nazis might feel judged. (I have no intensely personal dog in this fight since I don't play historicals and don't play Nazis, crypto- or otherwise, in 40K. No, when my faction burns entire planetary populations alive, they do so in the name of freedom  )On that note, it's easy to understand the reason people resist the connection between fascist atrocity in 40K and historical fascist atrocity. Almost nobody in the game really wants to have to look in the mirror as far as the actual implications of their plastic mans ideology if it were transplanted into a sane universe. Nazism is/was real and concrete, but the Imperium is abstracted and over-the-top, and that gives us all some plausible deniability as it were.
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Nov 19, 2014 21:19
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JerryLee, I agree with all of that, and also don't have a dog in the fight (I don't play historicals). The closest I've come is playing the Russians in Axis & Allies when I was a teenager. What bugs me is a general lack of cutting people a bit of slack. We're playing wargames: right off the bat, we're simulating violence for fun. There's a long dark road to go down if you start jumping to conclusions about people's moral/ethical imbalances re: what faction/game/whatever they're choosing to portray or personalize or whatever, or judging people for choosing not to play a particular faction, for whatever personal reasons they may have. That doesn't mean we have to tolerate assholes who use their wargame toys to promote, obviously or subtly, offensive ideas. I put guys with really kind of a lot of swastikas on their tanks in the same bucket as guys whose forces include really kind of a lot of naked tits; it's offputting and I question their motives and feel a bit grossed out by them. Nor do we have to tolerate being attacked for our choices in which collection of killers we're choosing to collect, by someone who collects a different pile of plastic death squads. But there's an actual gray area and it does none of us any good to draw a bright line through it, camp out on one side, and call anyone on the other side a "big gay baby." That gray area is much larger than most of us would care to think about, especially once you look at tabletop wargaming from the perspective of someone who doesn't do it at all. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Nov 19, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 21:58
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I've never had patience for the Nazi-apologists in this hobby, but I do my best to stay away from them and just not engage. Also I love the assertion that since I really don't like playing Nazis I'm on par with Nazi-fanboys, jesus wept.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:52
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JerryLee posted:I'm not sure at what point the conversation transitioned from people modeling anachronistic and gratuitous swastikas in 40K for no real reason to people who enthusiastically play Germans in historicals, It was me. Sorry! Like I said, it's all terribly confusing to me. JerryLee posted:(I have no intensely personal dog in this fight since I don't play historicals and don't play Nazis, crypto- or otherwise, in 40K. No, when my faction burns entire planetary populations alive, they do so in the name of freedom You're a Tau player, aren't you?
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Nov 20, 2014 01:30
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I'm gonna close this until all you Hitlers calm down
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Nov 20, 2014 02:27
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I hope y'all got the nazi chat out of your systems, cause this is probably the worst place for nazi chat. 
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Nov 20, 2014 15:26
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 I'll thumbnail it because I'm phone posting and don't know if it I'll break tables. Probably not though.
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Nov 20, 2014 15:43
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Is that a horse dick coming out of the brain thing on that guy's shoulder?
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Nov 20, 2014 15:44
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Sorry for starting the derail  have a peace offering:CB's limited bounty hunter mini is awesome except two things - the awkward base extension and the anachronistic piece of wall support. So of course people make conversions: (slightly  )
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Nov 20, 2014 15:45
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Len posted:
The Fightin' Play-Dohs! Pierzak posted:Sorry for starting the derail Oh wow. ...still better than Caterans, tho.
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Nov 20, 2014 15:55
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Lichtenstein posted:PS. I recall some old Avalon Hill game having pink SS counters. Sadly, I can't recall which one was that. Pink was the designated colour of tank forces in the German WW2 army. So German tanks would run around with pink and black Pennants and pink uniform emblems and so on. Feminazis!?!?!?!? REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Is it a big thing in historicals to have shared collections, or something? Yes. It is more common to have collective projects when you play historicals, partly because there are so many more options of periods, games, scales and such. If one guy randomly collects 6mm 14th century Seljuks and another collects 28mm WW1 French, you're getting nowhere. Most groups will either settle on a period or Campaign, where each player collects a relevant faction, or you'll do get together and collect armies together. So you might be 6 guys, buying and painting up a Roman and a Carthaginian army together. Then you play that period for a while, and move on to the next project when you get bored with it. If you play something like Warmachine and 40K you know you'll always be able to find an opponent with a complete force that you can play with, so you don't need to go through that whole thing. In one way it is simpler, but in another way you lose something, because it is actually very fun to have a collective project and you can get some very impressive forces painted up surprisingly quickly when you do it as a group. That said, few people are worse painters than historical gamers. I'll dig for some prime examples for the thread when I get home from work.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:07
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Historical gamers actually care about playing the game because the rules aren't total poo poo, is my guess.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:35
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JcDent posted:Oh wow.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:36
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lilljonas posted:That said, few people are worse painters than historical gamers. I'll dig for some prime examples for the thread when I get home from work. As a historical gamer, I wouldn't say it's true all the time. 28mm ancients had some pretty nice armies when I was playing WAB a bit more. But there was a lot of crossover from the WFB/40K community, which are both pretty good about painting in general. 15mm and smaller stuff just doesn't have much detail to it, so a lot of techniques just don't work well. EDIT: And it involves bunches of old guys, who have poo poo eyesight and co-ordination, on top of not knowing any modern techniques. rkajdi fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 17:42
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lilljonas posted:That said, few people are worse painters than historical gamers. I'll dig for some prime examples for the thread when I get home from work.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:44
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Chill la Chill posted:Really? I thought that with them being older and being more anal about details they'd have better results. Or is it that they're anal about colors but beyond that gently caress it my goopy faced Napoleon is fine? Now I want a scrunt Napoleon give me a scruntoleon Ask and you shall receive:  
rkajdi fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 17:52
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Historicals run the same quality spectrum as fantasy/sci-fi, with the advantage that most of the time your color choices are picked out for you. You also see more terrible Warhams because the population is way bigger and much more internet savvy.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:57
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moths posted:Historicals run the same quality spectrum as fantasy/sci-fi, with the advantage that most of the time your color choices are picked out for you. Smaller scale infantry is very hard to paint well, and very easy to mess up. That's the biggest issue I've seen in historicals, plus for certain communities (mainly DBx from what I saw) people don't put much effort into having nice looking stuff. Agreed that you get much less bad historicals online because grandpa doesn't understand how to use the intertron.
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Nov 20, 2014 18:10
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rkajdi posted:Ask and you shall receive: Those grognards really let themselves go
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Nov 20, 2014 18:33
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In my historical's group usually has the best painted miniatures, best terrain, etc... around the LGS. We make a big effort in always making sure what we are playing with looks 1000x better than anything the Warhammer, Warmahordes, etc... guys are doing so we can be giant smug cunts about it. "Just let me clear this garbage off this table and we can set up" *throws all the 40k terrain in some bins without caring one bit about damaging it* Meanwhile I actually overheard some warhams guys talking about how painting was a waste of time because learning how to thin paints properly was too hard.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:57
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Numlock posted:In my historical's group usually has the best painted miniatures, best terrain, etc... around the LGS. We make a big effort in always making sure what we are playing with looks 1000x better than anything the Warhammer, Warmahordes, etc... guys are doing so we can be giant smug cunts about it. "Just let me clear this garbage off this table and we can set up" *throws all the 40k terrain in some bins without caring one bit about damaging it* Source your quotes.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:02
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Numlock posted:Meanwhile I actually overheard some warhams guys talking about how painting was a waste of time because learning how to thin paints properly was too hard. 
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Nov 21, 2014 00:24
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I don't have time to paint, I need to play this game and learn tactics! *plays war hams
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Nov 21, 2014 00:30
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Pyrolocutus posted:Source your quotes. Whats funny is after I posted that I figured I would get at least one "[CITATION NEEDED]" type post. I'll give you that they might have been playing warmachine, all that fantasy space elf stuff looks the same to me.
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Nov 21, 2014 02:02
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Casually damaging other people's terrain makes you a dick, regardless of whether or not the owner is a 40k-playing jackass.
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Nov 21, 2014 02:07
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Yo it's interesting to talk about Nazi wargamers, but unless you have images, can you please go and have this chat in the historicals thre- this owns actually
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Nov 21, 2014 02:13
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yeah you're a real rear end in a top hat 
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Nov 21, 2014 02:17
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WINNERSH TRIANGLE posted:Yo it's interesting to talk about Nazi wargamers, but unless you have images, can you please go and have this chat in the historicals thre- What a missed opportunity to put a tiny teddy Roosevelt head in a dreadnought.
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Nov 21, 2014 02:21
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Improbable Lobster fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 02:22
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ghetto wormhole posted:yeah you're a real rear end in a top hat Yeah, I was just venting. Somebody went through the private storage and took out some of my personal terrain, shoved half of it back in the locker (not even in it's boxes) and then left the other half out and mixed with the store terrain. I know it was one of the shits who play 40k. But without proof and such what can I do.
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Nov 21, 2014 02:32
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These are rad as hell.
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Nov 21, 2014 02:43
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