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I kind of like that the X-men aren't in the MCU. I get how there are some characters, like Wolverine, who are very popular, but when I look at what the MCU doesn't have - X-men, F4, Spider-man, Namor, etc - it almost feels like a huge amount of bloat and endless continuity issues - just like comic books. Better to keep the rosters smaller.
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Nov 20, 2014 16:56
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I think there's always room for Spider-Man.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:01
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bobkatt013 posted:They should have had her dead wrapped in plastic. I swear that in the scene where he discovers the body and it says 25 years earlier that the first word out of his mouth was "Laura!" I had to rewind to realize that it was just a grunt of effort/disgust and not intelligible.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:01
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ashpanash posted:I kind of like that the X-men aren't in the MCU. I get how there are some characters, like Wolverine, who are very popular, but when I look at what the MCU doesn't have - X-men, F4, Spider-man, Namor, etc - it almost feels like a huge amount of bloat and endless continuity issues - just like comic books. Better to keep the rosters smaller. Yea, don't get me wrong, the little kid/grown nerd would totally love to see a X-Men/Avengers/Spider-Man movie, but realistically they're would be so many issues with that. I mean, between how you divide screen time between that many personalities and how you explain or retcon anything already established (not that comics/comic movies havent' done that; it's just the MCU I'd imagine is kind of set in stone, beyond any minor stuff that I'm sure I can't remember). Then again, I would've sworn just 10 years ago that Avengers would've been next to impossible and here we are with the most successful movie this summer featuring a talking raccoon and a tree. As for more topical stuff, whooo boy. I kept thinking the confession was just his brother doing it under duress, but that seemed way too honest to be anything but the truth. I guess when you wanna re-up with HYDRA you really gotta show 'em you want it.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:25
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That's the really creepy part of Ward for me. He did all this to Christian to torture the truth out of him, and in the end it actually managed to bring them to some form of reconciliation. Then wham! Turns out it doesn't matter to Ward because his primary goal all along was just to get his brother on tape saying something that Ward could use to pin their parents murder on him.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:30
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Slashrat posted:That's the really creepy part of Ward for me. He did all this to Christian to torture the truth out of him, and in the end it actually managed to bring them to some form of reconciliation. Then wham! Turns out it doesn't matter to Ward because his primary goal all along was just to get his brother on tape saying something that Ward could use to pin their parents murder on him. Crazy Ward is the best.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:31
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ashpanash posted:I kind of like that the X-men aren't in the MCU. I get how there are some characters, like Wolverine, who are very popular, but when I look at what the MCU doesn't have - X-men, F4, Spider-man, Namor, etc - it almost feels like a huge amount of bloat and endless continuity issues - just like comic books. Better to keep the rosters smaller. Spider-Man could have easily fit into the MCU since he is pretty much on the level of the current MCU characters. FF would be weird, tonally, for the MCU probably, but other characters of theirs like Silver Surfer and Galactus could have been useful for the space stuff Marvel seems to want to do. I agree that there is not much room for X-Men in the current MCU though. It's specifically built around their absence.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:50
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Quasipox posted:I mean, between how you divide screen time between that many personalities and how you explain or retcon anything already established (not that comics/comic movies havent' done that; it's just the MCU I'd imagine is kind of set in stone, beyond any minor stuff that I'm sure I can't remember). Or how you reconcile Beast being "Beloved Scion of Humanity" or "Filthy mutant that must die!" depending on if he's working with the Avengers or the X-men that day.
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Nov 20, 2014 18:33
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Slashrat posted:That's the really creepy part of Ward for me. He did all this to Christian to torture the truth out of him, and in the end it actually managed to bring them to some form of reconciliation. Then wham! Turns out it doesn't matter to Ward because his primary goal all along was just to get his brother on tape saying something that Ward could use to pin their parents murder on him. Skye: "But Ward, you killed your parents and your brother and framed him for it! Not to mention the countless SHIELD agents and I'm sure other innocent people you've left in your wake. You're a monster." Ward: "Yea...but Skye, I never lied to you.  "
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Nov 20, 2014 18:36
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We never see Ward kill his bro or his parents We never even see his parents. His parents werent at the house, only Christian was. I don't believe Ward killed them. I think it's all a fake to get in good graces with Whitehall
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Nov 20, 2014 18:44
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BlueBayou posted:We never see Ward kill his bro or his parents So Ward is able to fake a news report in which they say they found his brother and his parents in a murder suicide? Man he is a great spy.
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Nov 20, 2014 18:46
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Hell maybe Senator Ward really did it, maybe Grant broke him that hard.
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Nov 20, 2014 18:55
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bobkatt013 posted:So Ward is able to fake a news report in which they say they found his brother and his parents in a murder suicide? Man he is a great spy. A Senator probably could.
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Nov 20, 2014 18:55
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bobkatt013 posted:So Ward is able to fake a news report in which they say they found his brother and his parents in a murder suicide? Man he is a great spy. You don't think a super secret agent is capable of faking people's deaths? Are we seriously going to have this argument now? (I'm not saying it happened one way or the other, I'm saying there is a possibility that it didn't.) Also, why in the name of anything logical would you jump to the conclusion that he would have to hypothetically fake the news report? The news reporters report what they are told by authorities. If the authorities ID the bodies then that is what the news reports. 
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Nov 20, 2014 18:58
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ToastyPotato posted:You don't think a super secret agent is capable of faking people's deaths? Are we seriously going to have this argument now? (I'm not saying it happened one way or the other, I'm saying there is a possibility that it didn't.) There is the fact we know Ward is batshit insane and the last thing he says is lets go see mom and dad. I would be shocked if he did not kill them, there was also the fact we saw all the fire stuff in the previous episode.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:04
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Why would Ward, known serial killer, fake the murders of the people he wants dead most in the world?
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Nov 20, 2014 19:04
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Anyone who thinks those deaths were faked is s god drat idiot. People gave some super blind spot when it comes to Ward. He didn't sleep with May! He didn't shoot that dog! He set Fitzsimmons free! He didn't kill those guards! He didn't kill and frame his brother! They're obviously setting up s redemption arc!
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Nov 20, 2014 19:07
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JT Smiley posted:Why would Ward, known serial killer, fake the murders of the people he wants dead most in the world? Because he's loving crazy and Christian admitting it actually clearing the bad blood between them is something I can totally see.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:11
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I can't wait til Ward and SkyeDad are both appealing to her and saying "I love you! I did all this for you!" and she's just like "Nope" to both the crazy motherfuckers.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:22
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Vitamin P posted:I can't wait til Ward and SkyeDad are both appealing to her and saying "I love you! I did all this for you!" and she's just like "Nope" to both the crazy motherfuckers. As soon as Muad'Dad tells her what Whitewall did to Mama Skye, I think she's going to do whatever he says.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:31
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greatn posted:Anyone who thinks those deaths were faked is s god drat idiot. People gave some super blind spot when it comes to Ward. He didn't sleep with May! He didn't shoot that dog! He set Fitzsimmons free! He didn't kill those guards! He didn't kill and frame his brother! They're obviously setting up s redemption arc! Maybe I completely misunderstood that scene but I thought Garrett shot the dog. I'm with you on the other stuff.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:12
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I can understand thinking Ward didn't maybe, but why would you think Garret would? The purpose of the exercise was a test of Ward's loyalty and ability to follow orders and overcome his "weakness". Even if Ward failed the test the dog itself was meaningless. Its not like it knew the Busch's beans secret family recipe.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:15
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JT Smiley posted:Why would Ward, known serial killer, fake the murders of the people he wants dead most in the world? Aphrodite posted:Because he's loving crazy and Christian admitting it actually clearing the bad blood between them is something I can totally see. On the other hand, Ward kills people. A lot. It's his thing, and he's hated his family for a long time, so obviously he would be willing to do it. Really, the only determining factor here is if his family was more useful to his next mission dead or alive, and that we don't know. The fun thing is that both possibilities would fit Ward just fine. I'm so glad Ward wasn't given a standard lame redemption arc, this is way more interesting. Personally, I think they're all likely just dead, but the alternative is definitely plausible. Actually, I do think this is Ward's redemption arc, but only in his own head. Nobody on Team Coulson is dumb enough to ever trust him again, but that may not be something Ward can even comprehend. Ward's sure that results are the only thing that matters. He probably thinks that all he needs to do is score a big enough victory in SHIELD's favor and all will be forgiven, but that he just hasn't found a big enough prize to bring home yet. Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 20:16
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So people are arguing that Ward faked his brother/parents' deaths? Uh...so where are they then? Why would his brother ever agree to not just go public with "I didn't do that I'm actually okay". It doesn't make any goddamn sense to argue that their deaths were faked. I think the AoS writing team realized how much better their show is with Ward being a really really REALLY rogue agent who's also kinda unstable, versus a misunderstood guy trying to make it right.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:34
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^^ There is also the fact there is nothing that the brother can get out of it. First of all he lost all his power as he is no longer senator, and if he came out and said he faked it with his brother a known Hydra agent he would be even more hosed. Robot Hobo posted:
I loved when Ward said he was part of the team and Coulson gets this incredible look on his face as holy poo poo is this dude crazy.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:36
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I think Ward still thinks he's a good guy and getting rid of bad people. He told Skye he was going to keep leaving the team presents. Whitehall would be the biggest one. And he wants to prove he's better than anyone else on Coulson's team. So he might hurt them, but I think he wouldn't do anything to Skye, May, Fitz, Simmons, or Coulson.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:43
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Codependent Poster posted:
You mean other than that time he tried to kill them.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:47
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I'm not arguing that Christian faked his death. Just that Ward didn't KILL him. I wouldnt be at all surprised if he DID kill them. But given we didn't actually SEE it happen, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:48
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Codependent Poster posted:I think Ward still thinks he's a good guy and getting rid of bad people. He told Skye he was going to keep leaving the team presents. Whitehall would be the biggest one. Bobbi and Trainspotting are well on his shitlist though I reckon. Has anyone else noticed that Mack seems to be not quite as with the program as everyone else? I can't tell if it's just him being kind of an everyman pointing out how bizarre things are or something more. If Fitz jumped ship for whatever reason I could see Mack going with him.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:50
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^^ Its to point out how used to it everyone is. A bit of like how Skye was last season, but not awful. BlueBayou posted:I'm not arguing that Christian faked his death. Just that Ward didn't KILL him. He just set fire to the house were their bodies were found?
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Nov 20, 2014 20:51
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greatn posted:I can understand thinking Ward didn't maybe, but why would you think Garret would? The purpose of the exercise was a test of Ward's loyalty and ability to follow orders and overcome his "weakness". Even if Ward failed the test the dog itself was meaningless. Its not like it knew the Busch's beans secret family recipe. To establish how much a villian Garrett was? Killing the dog for no reason is pretty low. I'll have to watch that scene again tonight; like I said I may have misunderstood it.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:54
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bobkatt013 posted:He just set fire to the house were their bodies were found? I don't know what he did. I just won't believe he killed them until I see it. If you don't see it on screen, take it with a grain of salt BlueBayou fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 20:57
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LongDarkNight posted:To establish how much a villian Garrett was? Killing the dog for no reason is pretty low. I'll have to watch that scene again tonight; like I said I may have misunderstood it. There was a reason. It was to teach him that he can not make real emotional attachments to things. That he can discard and kill someone after he is done with them.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:57
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bobkatt013 posted:^^ Its to point out how used to it everyone is. A bit of like how Skye was last season, but not awful. Or he broke his brother's mind so much that he convinced him to commit murder suicide? We didn't see poo poo so I really, REALLY don't understand why people in this thread have this complete and utter need to 100% declare what did and didn't happen off screen between episodes. Relax and fricking wait until the season is over before you all start arguing about what did and didn't happen. It's going to be addressed. If he murdered a US Senator its going to be addressed for crying out loud! But I am sure this thread will do exactly what it did with the May Ward thing and turn it into some huge argument that at this point is now mostly imagined. I would know, considering I was one of the main participants. And I am saying now what I said then. It's going to be addressed in the next few episodes, and it will be a source of drama between Ward and Skye and co., regardless of whether he did it or not. Arguing about something that happened off screen when it will 100% certainly be brought up again and confirmed later is what is actually idiotic.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:00
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Ward obviously convinced Christian to throw the dog down the well.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:05
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bobkatt013 posted:He just set fire to the house were their bodies were found? This is the Marvel Universe. We have a brainwashed Hydra agent out there with half of May's face still stuck to her, an unknown number of Patton Oswalts in secret bases, and a handful of people who had the tops of their heads unscrewed so that a robot could reprogram their memories after some extraterrestrial stem-cell treatments went wrong. Faking the identity of a corpse (Grant would have no problem obtaining or making a fresh one) in a house fire is pretty simple stuff by comparison. As for motive for Ward's Brother to go along with the plan? Well, he hated Mom & Dad too. Perhaps killing abusive Mom and Dad was reward enough? I can see Ward talking him into that after breaking his Brother's will at the well, he's very good at that sort of thing, and Christian was not the most stable of guys to begin with. Not sure what Grant he would need his Brother for, but I'm sure the mind of a Senator has some useful stuff in it. Again, I think all three are most likely just dead in a fire, since we have plenty of complication already. If I do see Christian Ward alive though, I won't be shocked by the revelation. Robot Hobo fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 21:09
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I was borderline hate watching at this point before the last episode, everything just feels so drat boring and the more they keep trying to make the poo poo ~mysterious~ the more I hate it. I don't care about whatever that object is, I don't care about Skye's alien bullshit, etc. Then Kyle MacLachlan killed it this episode. I don't know if it's them actually taking the time to set up a story that isn't endless mystery or a case of finally the show gets a good actor but I dig everything about his scenes. Just his scene with Gregg was one of the best the show has ever had, who knew good TV happened when you actually put two good actors in a scene together?!
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Nov 20, 2014 21:26
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Robot Hobo posted:Ward has that weird mission-based thinking that gets in the way of normal human reactions. This, right here. Ward is out-and-out PTSD-hosed.
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Nov 20, 2014 21:33
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greatn posted:Anyone who thinks those deaths were faked is s god drat idiot. People gave some super blind spot when it comes to Ward. He didn't sleep with May! He didn't shoot that dog! He set Fitzsimmons free! He didn't kill those guards! He didn't kill and frame his brother! They're obviously setting up s redemption arc! At the time, it seemed like the "easy" conclusion that Ward and May were gonna have sex, and I was looking to read something else into the moment there. They just went through some real-rear end poo poo bringing up traumatic memories thanks to the berserker staff and nobody else could understand that. So yeah, maybe they just wanted to be in each others' company and drink and maybe talk about poo poo while drunk. But no, they were loving. They'd been loving. OK, I'm fine with being wrong. They confirmed Ward didn't shoot the dog. What makes this so confusing is the scene where someone (presumably Ward) is watching the dog run away through crosshairs, and it seems like that scene transitions into the scene where Ward dumps Fitzsimmons into the ocean to kill them, so you're thinking "Hey, dog in the crosshairs! He's offing these characters! He killed that dog!" But no, he didn't kill the dog. It's kinda dumb and confusing. Maybe Ward really DID set Fitzsimmons free. I would have totally been in the "He intended to kill them" group before this season started, but Ward is delusional and just honest enough that when he says he dropped them into the ocean to save their lives, I kind of believe him. I don't know which guards you're talking about, but yeah, Ward's killed every non-dog he's come across. I'm pretty sure Christian and the parents are dead. Ward does not have the proper connections to stage a cover-up. Christian might, but for what purpose would he, except if he were forced to by his brother? And if that were the case, what good would it do Ward to keep his brother alive, in hiding or held captive, limiting his freedom to carry out his plans? Ward is totally getting redeemed. Not in the show, but with me. Ward is my hero now. I love Ward.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:01
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Jamesman posted:At the time, it seemed like the "easy" conclusion that Ward and May were gonna have sex, and I was looking to read something else into the moment there. They just went through some real-rear end poo poo bringing up traumatic memories thanks to the berserker staff and nobody else could understand that. So yeah, maybe they just wanted to be in each others' company and drink and maybe talk about poo poo while drunk. But no, they were loving. They'd been loving. OK, I'm fine with being wrong. Going to get a Ward was right shirt?
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Nov 20, 2014 22:05
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