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bobkatt013 posted:Going to get a Ward was right shirt? No, because he still might end up being a Skrull.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:12
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greatn posted:I can understand thinking Ward didn't maybe, but why would you think Garret would? The purpose of the exercise was a test of Ward's loyalty and ability to follow orders and overcome his "weakness". Even if Ward failed the test the dog itself was meaningless. Its not like it knew the Busch's beans secret family recipe. http://io9.com/how-soon-could-grant-ward-find-redemption-on-agents-of-1613606987 quote:I know. It was supposed to be ambiguous. According to me, he did not. It's open to interpretation, but I'll answer that: No. Because it's irredeemable. You can't kill a dog! If you do that, you're just done. So, redemption arc? It's just going to be dead in the water. You can't kill a dog. The actors himself believes Ward didn't kill the dog.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:14
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Goddamnit not this poo poo again. Can't we all just appreciate Crazy Ward for the crazy person that he is?mikeraskol posted:As soon as Muad'Dad tells her what Whitewall did to Mama Skye, I think she's going to do whatever he says. I don't think she'll do everything, but she'll be inclined to listen to him instead of just dismissing him at least.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:21
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Xtanstic posted:Goddamnit not this poo poo again. Can't we all just appreciate Crazy Ward for the crazy person that he is? He's just not crazy enough without the beard.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:25
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Crazy Ward was interesting for like 3 episodes then it just became boring as poo poo. Crazy Dad can keep it going all season 
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Nov 20, 2014 22:26
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Midnight City posted:Crazy Ward was interesting for like 3 episodes then it just became boring as poo poo. How's Skye? How's Skye?
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Nov 20, 2014 22:27
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bobkatt013 posted:How's Skye? How's Skye? THAT'S NOT HER NAME!
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Nov 20, 2014 22:29
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Burning_Monk posted:The actors himself believes Ward didn't kill the dog. Ward didn't do it. Other-Ward did it.
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Nov 20, 2014 22:38
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Azhais posted:Ward didn't do it. Other-Ward did it.  Not a problem for... Double-Agent Man!
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Nov 20, 2014 22:46
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BlueBayou posted:I don't know what he did. I just won't believe he killed them until I see it. Am I reading this incorrectly or did you just stick unmarked Game of Thrones spoilers for no loving reason into your post in the Agents of SHIELD thread?
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Nov 20, 2014 22:52
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Toplowtech posted:Another thing: i don't get why he is working as a doctor despite clearly hating his clients to the point he don't mind killing them. At first, i thought it was him just being amoral but now we know his background if you add the fact his wife got some organs stolen and he seems angry skye don't understand the situation and thinks he is a monster, i think it's possible his violent behavior is a mean to an end, not just blind violence. It looks to me he became crazy because of what he need to do instead of doing what he does because he is crazy. What better way to get revenge on the man who vivisected your wife than to learn how to doctor, and vivisect him?
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Nov 20, 2014 22:57
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Burning_Monk posted:http://io9.com/how-soon-could-grant-ward-find-redemption-on-agents-of-1613606987 Yeah and Chloe thinks Ward and Skye should be together, but they're just actors.
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Nov 20, 2014 23:20
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greatn posted:Yeah and Chloe thinks Ward and Skye should be together, but they're just actors. If you have someone from the show backing up your claim, lets see it. Until then, this is the information we have.
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Nov 20, 2014 23:24
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It's entirely possible it will turn out Ward broke Chrisitan and big brudder did do the murder/suicide thing, Ward used it to get back into Hydra. It's likely that's what Ward will eventually say he did. Doesnt matter either way, Crazy Ward is best Ward
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Nov 20, 2014 23:32
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This thread is so stupid with theories. Jesus, I love every second of it. So Ward might not have killed his brother and parents, but just so happened to accidentally coax out a suitable confession from his brother that could be left at the scene to give a misleading context. Nope, he totally tricked that out of his brother but then came clean to him off-screen about ruining his reputation with a loving murder-suicide conspiracy before whisking all three of them into hiding so that he could infiltrate Hydra. 
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Nov 20, 2014 23:45
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Stayne Falls posted:Am I reading this incorrectly or did you just stick unmarked Game of Thrones spoilers for no loving reason into your post in the Agents of SHIELD thread? Books have been out for YEARS, but point taken. post edited
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Nov 20, 2014 23:48
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I'll be surprised if the murder/suicide turns out to be a generic revenge killing rather than part of a long con on SOMEBODY. Doesn't mean Ward didn't enjoy it, though.
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Nov 20, 2014 23:53
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Burning_Monk posted:If you have someone from the show backing up your claim, lets see it. Until then, this is the information we have. He also said that killing the dog would mean there could be no redemption. At this point, he's killed at least 10 SHIELD agents, 4 FBI mooks, 3 Hydra goons, 1 Koenig, 3/5 of his own family , and 1/4 of Fitz's brain. It makes no loving difference if he killed the dog or not. There's not going to be any real redemption for Ward at this point. The writers are all but beating you in the head with it. I mean, Ward can believe in his own redemption, but he's psychotic. That seems to be the point, which is great, since it makes him an interesting character. Javid posted:I'll be surprised if the murder/suicide turns out to be a generic revenge killing rather than part of a long con on SOMEBODY. Doesn't mean Ward didn't enjoy it, though. I don't know, he's loving obsessed with his family, Christian in particular. It was a pretty creepy way to lead his brother to his death, looking back on it, but it fits with crazy Ward. If it wasn't for Garrett, he probably would have tried to kill them again once he was released from juvie.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:01
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There was no dog. Garret actually gave him a plush toy dog the whole time.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:03
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I really thought Ward was going to throw Christian in the well anyway and leave him to die
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Nov 21, 2014 00:09
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LongDarkNight posted:To establish how much a villian Garrett was? Killing the dog for no reason is pretty low. I'll have to watch that scene again tonight; like I said I may have misunderstood it. You did. But don't worry you're not alone. For some reason. The visual cues were pretty clear but a lot of people missed it. For future reference, when you show a closeup of a character's face then flashback to a POV shot, then come right back to their face you're seeing their memory. Not the memory of someone else that wasn't even in the scene. I'm not sure where you and a handful of others got the Garrett thing from. Wishful thinking maybe? I dunno. But it was in no way shape or form Garrett.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:10
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Deadpool posted:You did. But don't worry you're not alone. For some reason. The visual cues were pretty clear but a lot of people missed it. For future reference, when you show a closeup of a character's face then flashback to a POV shot, then come right back to their face you're seeing their memory. Not the memory of someone else that wasn't even in the scene. I'm not sure where you and a handful of others got the Garrett thing from. Wishful thinking maybe? I dunno. But it was in no way shape or form Garrett. The editing is poor and ambiguous. But that scene in no way makes the flashback->POV as clear as you say. It could very easily be Garrett, for one simple reason, because Ward didn't have a rifle when he let the dog go. And then there is all the other stuff that's been mentioned already.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:18
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Burning_Monk posted:The editing is poor and ambiguous. But that scene in no way makes the flashback->POV as clear as you say. It could very easily be Garrett, for one simple reason, because Ward didn't have a rifle when he let the dog go. And then there is all the other stuff that's been mentioned already. Go watch the scene again. It's very clear. It's a closeup of Ward in thought, then the rifle scope, then right back to his had releasing Fitz and Simmons that coincides with where the sound of the shot to the dog would be. It's actually very well edited and couldn't be more clear while keeping whether he pulled the trigger or not ambiguous.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:22
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Deadpool posted:Go watch the scene again. It's very clear. It's a closeup of Ward in thought, then the rifle scope, then right back to his had releasing Fitz and Simmons that coincides with where the sound of the shot to the dog would be. It's actually very well edited and couldn't be more clear while keeping whether he pulled the trigger or not ambiguous. It's really not clear, which is why we have been discussion this one scene for months. It follows Garrett's speech too asking him if this is "another weakness", like something Garrett will have to finish again.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:27
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Burning_Monk posted:It's really not clear, which is why we have been discussion this one scene for months. It follows Garrett's speech too asking him if this is "another weakness", like something Garrett will have to finish again. No again it is clear. In the previous scene Ward has the rifle and says "The dog takes off running every time I take a shot out here" which set up him firing a shot to make the dog run off. Garrett leaves Ward and does not take the rifle with him. It fits in perfectly with the visual editing of him not having the heart finish off Fitz and Simmons face to face, just like he couldn't with the dog in the same scene that's alternating through this part. I'm sorry you don't think that's clear, but it is.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:35
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The MSJ posted:Garret actually
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Nov 21, 2014 00:37
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Burning_Monk posted:It's really not clear, which is why we have been discussion this one scene for months. It follows Garrett's speech too asking him if this is "another weakness", like something Garrett will have to finish again. I took that to mean it was Garrett telling him to overcome this weakness the way he overcame the last one. In other words, "Suck it up, Buttercup."
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Nov 21, 2014 00:38
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Oh god my PTSD. Someone trigger warning this page 
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Nov 21, 2014 00:39
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Deadpool posted:No again it is clear. In the previous scene Ward has the rifle and says "The dog takes off running every time I take a shot out here" which set up him firing a shot to make the dog run off. Garrett leaves Ward and does not take the rifle with him. It fits in perfectly with the visual editing of him not having the heart finish off Fitz and Simmons face to face, just like he couldn't with the dog in the same scene that's alternating through this part. I'm sorry you don't think that's clear, but it is. Again, the actor who was in the scene said it wasn't. You can try to argue about how it fits into your preconceived ideas, but that scene says something else. It makes sense to me, it was Garrett who shot the dog. Anyway, we are just retreading the same old arguments so, you can have the final word. I'm not arguing this again.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:45
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Deadpool posted:No again it is clear. In the previous scene Ward has the rifle and says "The dog takes off running every time I take a shot out here" which set up him firing a shot to make the dog run off. Garrett leaves Ward and does not take the rifle with him. It fits in perfectly with the visual editing of him not having the heart finish off Fitz and Simmons face to face, just like he couldn't with the dog in the same scene that's alternating through this part. I'm sorry you don't think that's clear, but it is. What isn't clear is whether he actually hit it or let it get away. Which is why the actor who played the character in the scene said it is open for interpretation. Because if you feel he didn't kill it, you think there is some humanity left still in him, if you think he killed it, you feel that he may beyond redemption. The scene felt sloppy when it aired, but ultimately leaving something like that open over a long period of time is pretty decent story telling. Some people (maybe not on this forum obviously, but in the other 99.9% of the audience) might actually be pulling for Ward to turn things around. So for them it is good to have the possibility that he let the dog go and pretended to kill it, which is why there was no confirmation from anyone that he shot and killed it at any point so far.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:49
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Burning_Monk posted:Again, the actor who was in the scene said it wasn't. You can try to argue about how it fits into your preconceived ideas, but that scene says something else. It makes sense to me, it was Garrett who shot the dog. The only thing the actor said is that he didn't believe that Ward killed the dog. Which was the entire point of leaving the scene ambiguous and it being from Ward's perspective. If it was supposed to be Garrett behind the scope there's no ambiguity at all.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:50
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AbsolutelySane posted:He also said that killing the dog would mean there could be no redemption. At this point, he's killed at least 10 SHIELD agents, 4 FBI mooks, 3 Hydra goons, 1 Koenig, 3/5 of his own family , and 1/4 of Fitz's brain. It makes no loving difference if he killed the dog or not. There's not going to be any real redemption for Ward at this point. The writers are all but beating you in the head with it. I mean, Ward can believe in his own redemption, but he's psychotic. That seems to be the point, which is great, since it makes him an interesting character. Dog stuff aside, if anyone can do a redemption arc it's probably Whedon (and his writing team). How many people did Spike kill on Buffy only to be the savior of the world at the end? Angel was in the same boat, evil/good/evil/good though his was usually caused by a macguffin. They even had an ancient demi-god bent on subjugating humanity they later called a smurf after she learned to love. I'm not saying they will do that with him, and I'm like many who like the Psycho Ward, but if anyone could it's probably this writing team.
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Nov 21, 2014 00:56
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Oh my god not the dog stuff again. Please acquit this line of discussion.
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Nov 21, 2014 01:01
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Buddy burned down the house to ingratiate himself with Hydra.
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Nov 21, 2014 01:03
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But do you guys think Ward and May banged?
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Nov 21, 2014 01:21
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:But do you guys think Ward and May banged? Ward doesn't know the diamond cutter; it's too powerful.
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Nov 21, 2014 01:21
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:But do you guys think Ward and May banged? He nailed her.
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Nov 21, 2014 01:24
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Yeah, but did Ward kill anyone when he fired that gun while escaping, or was it, like, a warning shot? Maybe he just winged the guy!
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Nov 21, 2014 01:38
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Kheldarn posted:What better way to get revenge on the man who vivisected your wife than to learn how to doctor, and vivisect him? Wow. That's... that's some serious long-term planning. I guess when you're immortal you've got the time, but that makes the crazy kind of Wardsense I'd expect from Mua'Dad.
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Nov 21, 2014 01:43
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Barry Convex posted:Setting aside for the moment the question of what Feige et al. would or wouldn't allow (and no, not changing my mind): have there been any good Inhumans stories that didn't center around the Royal Family characters? The current series Inhuman is only half about the royal family and even that half is primarily about Medusa while Black Bolt is on the sidelines. Otherwise, it's about a bunch of down-to-earth people who just got turned into Inhumans and how they react to that. It's basically trying to be X-Men now, but that's still a good thing because for once the whole Inhumans concept is relatable. The series has been pretty good despite the initial delays, but especially in the latest few issues where they introduced a hard-boiled, middle-aged police detective who suddenly became an Inhuman, split with his wife because his glowing eyes are too freaky for her, and moved to Attilan to become a detective there. And he HATES how they call him by a codename instead of just Frank McGee.
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Nov 21, 2014 02:02
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