The Insect Court posted:Interesting. So you obviously don't support BDS, given your liberal stance on trade with Israel. Did you at least have the decency to pay for the hospital bills after you spread your wife's nose across her face and shattered her jawbone?
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Nov 21, 2014 03:15
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Effectronica posted:Did you at least have the decency to pay for the hospital bills after you spread your wife's nose across her face and shattered her jawbone? Blood Libel right here.
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Nov 21, 2014 03:55
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Panzeh posted:AIPAC, J-Street, and others are basically foreign spy agencies that bribe US politicians to serve another nation's interests. They would not be tolerated by any realist state. A point I am curious about : Is there any historical equivalent to the Israeli lobby in the United States - ie, a less politically and militarily powerful nation creating institutions that wielded a ton of influence over a generally far more powerful one?
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Nov 21, 2014 05:15
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Catholic Church?
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Nov 21, 2014 05:19
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:A point I am curious about : Is there any historical equivalent to the Israeli lobby in the United States - ie, a less politically and militarily powerful nation creating institutions that wielded a ton of influence over a generally far more powerful one? How much influence is this, though? It's about this one issue, and it's not like Israel can get away with just everything. For example, when Israel was going to sell AWACS-esque technology to China in 2000, the US said hell no, and Israel backed down. I think it has more to do with the fact that there is nowhere near as powerful a lobby for Palestinian interests.
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Nov 21, 2014 05:26
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CommieGIR posted:Holy gently caress, can you go a single post without I was merely concerned for your well-being, C.G. Not only do you have paranoid delusions of persecution in which you seem to believe that any post in this thread by someone expressing a contrary opinion is an accusation of bigotry(which would be bad enough) your frothing and increasing incoherent response to those imagined allegations almost makes it seem as if they wound you deeply. Which is odd, because if someone made a totally baseless accusation against me, I'd just laugh it off. Not sure where your reaction is coming from  SedanChair posted:Can't you at least admit to making the allegations? Would that be too close to sincerity? Hey, just wanted to say thanks for keeping your musings about Israel to this thread, S.C. Maybe you want to repeat your claims about a Zionist conspiracy to dominate the world(which is secretly supported by the Zionist-controlled media) in this thread, for anyone who missed your posts to that effect in the Middle East thread? The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 06:28
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or covertly accusing someone of anti-sematism?
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The Insect Court posted:I was merely concerned for your well-being, C.G. Not only do you have paranoid delusions of persecution in which you seem to believe that any post in this thread by someone expressing a contrary opinion is an accusation of bigotry(which would be bad enough) your frothing and increasing incoherent response to those imagined allegations almost makes it seem as if they wound you deeply. Which is odd, because if someone made a totally baseless accusation against me, I'd just laugh it off. Not sure where your reaction is coming from Can't you at least admit to making the allegations? Would that be too close to sincerity?
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Nov 21, 2014 06:29
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Communocracy posted:I for one look forward to a funkalicious continuation of the Thizzraeli-Ballerstyllian Chronflict. The best part is, even if we don't achieve peace in our time, we can have another 500 pages discussing the proper language to discuss the conflict. Yay!
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Nov 21, 2014 06:40
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Dead Reckoning posted:I dunno, I have a really good feeling about this next round of peace talks. Peace talks? When is that happening?
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Nov 21, 2014 06:44
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ONCE THE ENEMY HAS BEEN DEFEATED
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Nov 21, 2014 06:51
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 Israeli high school math teacher sends a message to all his students saying "In times like these, it's important to remember there are also good Arabs! And they can be found here" with an image of a cemetery attached. Keeps his job. http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/1.627527
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Nov 21, 2014 07:56
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Miri Regev, of "refugees are a cancer" fame, condescends to the most minimal standards of hypocritical moralistic platitudes with "Not all Arabs are bad, I have some Arab friends" and is immediately assaulted by a wave of "leftist traitor whore" comments. Fun times ahead.
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Nov 21, 2014 09:24
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The Insect Court posted:Interesting. So you obviously don't support BDS, given your liberal stance on trade with Israel. Then you disagree. The fact is, besides exceptions that can be counted with one hand, we engage in trade with everyone, and with countries worse then Israel. Unless you're willing to equate trade with support in those cases too, your point is moot. Buying oil from Saudi Arabia so they can buy more guns isn't any less reprehensible.
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Nov 21, 2014 10:15
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DarkCrawler posted:I'm Finnish. My government does not support Israel and the populace near universally hates the country.
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Nov 21, 2014 11:20
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Xander77 posted:Just out of curiosity, would you smilie face at any other country your people hate? You have an actual reason to hate, let's say... Russia. Would that be a smilie face occasion? Just out of curiosity, why is it that people believe that hatred of Slavs is nonexistent today? Have you never heard a Polish joke, or seen people baying for Russian blood? Why doesn't saying Japan is "creepy" bring down tedious narcissists like The Insect Court? Only in the case of Israel does detesting a country's policies mean hatred of an entire ethno-religious group.
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Nov 21, 2014 14:03
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I am no fan of Israel but i am against the BDS campaign. Every country ougth to be free to enter in to commerce with whoever they wish Therefore i got no problem with buying and selling Israeli wares. Let`s remember that is a conflict between jews and Palestinians and no one else. The outside world has little rigth to get involved. It`s best not to favour one side too much. So while we may shame Israel for it`s misdeeds and acknlowegde Palestinian Statehood joining a boycott goes too far. Another problem with the BDS campaign is the indiscriminate way they hurt everyone living in Israel regardless of their political stance. I can`t see how it could ever be morally justified.
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Nov 21, 2014 14:14
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Baudolino posted:I am no fan of Israel but i am against the BDS campaign. Every country ougth to be free to enter in to commerce with whoever they wish Therefore i got no problem with buying and selling Israeli wares. Let`s remember that is a conflict between jews and Palestinians and no one else. The outside world has little rigth to get involved. It`s best not to favour one side too much. So while we may shame Israel for it`s misdeeds and acknlowegde Palestinian Statehood joining a boycott goes too far. So you were also opposed to boycotting apartheid South Africa, right? Edit: since I'm bored, I may as well take apart these "arguments." quote:Every country ougth to be free to enter in to commerce with whoever they wish Therefore i got no problem with buying and selling Israeli wares. Just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean you should. You have the right to shout the N word at the top of your lungs; that doesn't mean that any decent person should do such a thing. The entire point about BDS is that it's a democratic, grassroots campaign; if the people of a country decide they don't want to support apartheid, they should boycott the apartheid state. quote:Let`s remember that is a conflict between jews and Palestinians and no one else. The outside world has little rigth to get involved. This is categorically untrue. The United States has given billions of dollars in aid to Israel, money that is used to build apartheid walls, Jewish-only settlements and to arm IDF soldiers in their fight to maintain an apartheid regime. We provide Israel with bombs, guns, military intelligence, and other tools used to murder and oppress Palestinians. We are, as are most Western powers, already involved. The difference is that we got involved on the side of the bad guys. Also, the world has a moral and legal obligation to get involved when we're dealing with apartheid, which is considered a crime against humanity in international law. quote:It`s best not to favour one side too much. Because the truth is always in the middle, right? One side is the victim of apartheid; the other is the perpetrator. One nation is a first-world, nuclear-armed superpower which oppresses its indigenous people with impunity; the other lives in refugee camps, concentration camps and bantustans because of the actions of the former. We have a moral obligation to favor the victim, just like we did in South Africa. quote:Another problem with the BDS campaign is the indiscriminate way they hurt everyone living in Israel regardless of their political stance. The entire purpose of BDS is to put pressure on Israel to end its apartheid policies, recognize Palestinian human rights and make peace. It is clear that Israel has no interest in doing so; the current government has publicly sworn there will be neither a Palestinian state nor racial equality on its watch and the majority of Israeli Jews are squarely against a peace deal, much less a genuine 2 state solution(meaning, the creation of an actual Palestinian state, not just a non-sovereign collection of semi-autonomous bantustans.) It's clear that if peace is going to happen and apartheid is going to end, foreign intervention will be necessary just like it was in South Africa. Boycotts are an acceptable, non-violent and democratic way of putting pressure on Israel to conform to the norms of international law and basic human decency. FreshlyShaven fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 14:18
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Baudolino posted:I am no fan of Israel but i am against the BDS campaign. Every country ougth to be free to enter in to commerce with whoever they wish Therefore i got no problem with buying and selling Israeli wares. Let`s remember that is a conflict between jews and Palestinians and no one else. The outside world has little rigth to get involved. It`s best not to favour one side too much. So while we may shame Israel for it`s misdeeds and acknlowegde Palestinian Statehood joining a boycott goes too far. I would like my nation to trade with the citizens of Gaza. Sadly Israel has forced my nation to boycott them. Has Israel gone too far?
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Nov 21, 2014 14:37
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Effectronica posted:Just out of curiosity, why is it that people believe that hatred of Slavs is nonexistent today? Have you never heard a Polish joke, or seen people baying for Russian blood? Why doesn't saying Japan is "creepy" bring down tedious narcissists like The Insect Court? The thing is - as an enlightened left-wing person type, you probably wouldn't consider any of the above to be a positive. quote:Only in the case of Israel does detesting a country's policies mean hatred of an entire ethno-religious group.
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Nov 21, 2014 14:40
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Baudolino posted:joining a boycott goes too far. I agree it is disproportionate. A more measured reaction would be carpet bombing every Israeli cities every couple years, since it is what has been established as the gold standard of proportionate, measured reaction in the area.
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Nov 21, 2014 15:00
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Boycott to me is a personal choice that a person or a country is free to make if they so wish. People boycott things all the time.Xander77 posted:Just out of curiosity, would you smilie face at any other country your people hate? You have an actual reason to hate, let's say... Russia. Would that be a smilie face occasion?
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Nov 21, 2014 15:01
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Baudolino posted:I am no fan of Israel but i am against the BDS campaign. Every country ougth to be free to enter in to commerce with whoever they wish Isn't that exactly what BDS is doing? Should we not be free to not enter commerce with whoever we wish? Xander77 posted:The thing is - as an enlightened left-wing person type, bullshit detector going off hard
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Nov 21, 2014 15:05
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DarkCrawler posted:
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Nov 21, 2014 15:08
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Xander77 posted:What is the context in which you'd go "we Finns really hate Russians "Russians" =/= Israel But bravo on trying to equate a country with an ethnic group, funny how that keeps happening. Israelis =/= Israel Russians =/= Russia Americans =/= America Get it?
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Nov 21, 2014 15:14
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Xander77 posted:What is the context in which you'd go "we Finns really hate Russians He said "we hate the country", not "we hate the people." There's a big difference(though you're doing a good job of purposefully ignoring it.) Are you under the impression that in the age of Putin, lots of people don't hate Russia?
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Nov 21, 2014 15:15
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This is stupid. I blame The Insect Court.
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Nov 21, 2014 15:17
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Xander77 posted:gently caress right off with that disingenuous bullshit. Are you back to pretending? I thought we had made some breakthroughs.
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Nov 21, 2014 15:22
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down with slavery posted:"Russians" =/= Israel quote:But bravo on trying to equate a country with an ethnic group, funny how that keeps happening. quote:Israelis =/= Israel Instead, it's generally يمارس الجنس مع الكيان الصهيوني and "all Israilis are killers" Or янки го хом and "stupid pendosy". ... All of the above is fairly obvious and kinda besides the "hatred of countries and ethnic groups is generally not viewed as a positive element in left-wing discussions" point made above. vvv Effectronica posted:It's not disingenuous. If someone writes or talks about how they hate ISIS (an avowedly Muslim state), nobody assumes they want to kill all Muslims. quote:If someone writes that they wish the US had nuked Japan more, we mark them down as racist (outside of SomethingAwful, at least) but don't assume they go around murdering Japanese-Americans or burning crosses on their lawns. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 15:24
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Xander77 posted:One of my hyphens is in fact "Russian", so... yeah. (To be honest, I have heard a great deal about Russophobia - from Putin-jugend types) It's not disingenuous. If someone writes or talks about how they hate ISIS (an avowedly Muslim state), nobody assumes they want to kill all Muslims. If someone writes that they wish the US had nuked Japan more, we mark them down as racist (outside of SomethingAwful, at least) but don't assume they go around murdering Japanese-Americans or burning crosses on their lawns. This is something that only happens with Israel, and it's transparent why. First of all, the Israeli right wants to guarantee that nobody will dare interfere with them, and making any dissension anti-Semitic is the best way to do so, along with Israel's nuclear arsenal. Secondarily, it also helps bury the simple fact that Israel only recognizes Orthodox Judaism as legitimate and denies full legitimacy to other religious traditions.
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Nov 21, 2014 15:27
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Xander77 posted:You don't really meet people (IRL, not in academic/internet discussion) who go "I hate Russia but I'm perfectly fine with the Russian people". [citation needed]
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Nov 21, 2014 15:27
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Xander77 posted:No, because that's a distinction that only works in a vacuum? You don't really meet people (IRL, not in academic/internet discussion) who go "I hate Russia but I'm perfectly fine with the Russian people". Jesus Christ, don't you have any shame?
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Nov 21, 2014 15:28
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Well Israelis do tend to have a rather...energetic way of participating in their country's worst crimes.
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Nov 21, 2014 15:29
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Xander77 posted:I'm going to agree with this one? This will almost certainly fall on deaf ears, but did you know that the American invasion of Iraq brought much more anger than the Russian invasion of Ukraine? People with liberal or left-wing values generally are much more offended by ostensibly liberal nations that engage in brutally illiberal behavior. Consider how this might apply to Israel, and consider why people would be angrier at a supposedly tolerant, modern liberal democracy bombarding hospitals with white phosphorus than a police state doing the same thing.
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Nov 21, 2014 15:32
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Xander77 posted:What is the context in which you'd go "we Finns really hate Russians Some shitposter accuses my country of being an Russian ally? Also, I didn't say we hate Israelis as a people either. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 15:46
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down with slavery posted:[citation needed] Effectronica posted:This will almost certainly fall on deaf ears, but did you know that the American invasion of Iraq brought much more anger than the Russian invasion of Ukraine? (Seriously though, I've spent the last week talking to people and watching them switch what you're saying off and replace it with a representation of what their brain thinks you should be about is something that annoyed me a great deal IRL... so I'm going to rant about it ineffectually on the internet, I guess?) Not to steal Absurd's "I'm on of the good ones" shtick, but you can go through my post history in the previous thread or just... stop making assumptions about what I'm trying to say here based on "he seems to be defending Israel, that fucker" reflexes. DarkCrawler posted:Some shitposter accuses my country of being an Russian ally? 
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Nov 21, 2014 15:50
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Xander77 posted:Go outside and talk to people? Be stupid enough to actually engage taxi/bus drivers in conversation? Hmm, I don't think I'm going to engage in the criminal practice of looking at post history, especially when you're doing the thing you're accusing me of. You also ignored the other response I made.
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Nov 21, 2014 15:52
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Xander77 posted:Go outside and talk to people? Be stupid enough to actually engage taxi/bus drivers in conversation? I do. Maybe the people I talk to aren't as dumb as the people you talk to. That being said, I don't really use taxis so I can't speak to the taxi driver sentiment out here. Bus drivers are awesome people though and definitely will talk poo poo about a country if you start a conversation. Where I live open racism like "I hate Russians" isn't really in vogue.
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Nov 21, 2014 15:55
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Xander77 posted:But there's an ancient historic brotherhood between our people Well, I mean there is an ancient historic brotherhood between Semitic people and that hasn't stopped them
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Nov 21, 2014 16:01
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Xander77 posted:Not to steal Absurd's "I'm on of the good ones" shtick, but you can go through my post history in the previous thread or just... stop making assumptions about what I'm trying to say here based on "he seems to be defending Israel, that fucker" reflexes. Oh oh here's a good one. Xander77 posted:"Israel is (very slowly, very inefficiently) *genociding* the Palestinian population - you know, the method of genocide that lasts for decades and results in a major net population growth (and applies more to those Palestinians currently fighting Israel far more to those who aren't" - what is this, even? It's not actually true. It's a good way to make sure anyone You defend Israel a fair bit, you just do it in this "let's be really precise about terms" style. But then when the terms are precise enough you say "now you're going to turn off Israeli Moderates Riding a Unicorn."
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Nov 21, 2014 16:06
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Xander77 posted:Not to steal Absurd's "I'm on of the good ones" shtick, but you can go through my post history in the previous thread or just... stop making assumptions about what I'm trying to say here based on "he seems to be defending Israel, that fucker" reflexes. Unfortunately for most people debating on the internet is all about absolutes: Either a person agrees with you on everything and is therefore ok, or they disagree on any detail and is the worst person in the world.
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Nov 21, 2014 16:23
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