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A Buttery Pastry posted:Not limited to Africa, so the resolution isn't as good as it could be, but it does have the advantage of covering 5000 years. Obviously this is based on population growth models and whatever records remain, and not a set of complete census data, but it looks sensible enough at first glance.  On the current subject of diseases- check out Mexico between 1500 and 1600 for something depressing. How hard would it be to make a gif of this? It'd be really neat to see this in sequence. Generation Internet posted:Australia: "gently caress off, we're full"
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Nov 23, 2014 19:10
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Eiba posted:In fairness, Australia is really ecologically fragile and almost entirely unsuited for human habitation. It's probably already pretty overpopulated for what its environment can support.
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Nov 23, 2014 19:20
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Generation Internet might be on to something. Asylum seekers are allowed to stay, provided they colonize the Australian interior. I don't see how it could go wrong.
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Nov 23, 2014 19:22
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Eiba posted:How hard would it be to make a gif of this? It'd be really neat to see this in sequence. Not too hard.  With speed options Kennel fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Nov 23, 2014 |
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Nov 23, 2014 19:25
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^^   i'm kinda curious about how accurate it is though. i thought that strip along russia only came about 'cause of the trans-siberian railway? and i might be completely wrong on this but i have the recollection that the andes were always the more populous part of pre-colombian america Koramei fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Nov 23, 2014 |
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Nov 23, 2014 19:26
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Koramei posted:i'm kinda curious about how accurate it is though. i thought that strip along russia only came about 'cause of the trans-siberian railway? and i might be completely wrong on this but i have the recollection that the andes were always the more populous part of pre-colombian america Before the Trans-siberian was built people usually travelled in boats along the many rivers in the region. Presumably people would settle the riverbanks as well.
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Nov 23, 2014 19:34
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Phlegmish posted:Generation Internet might be on to something. Asylum seekers are allowed to stay, provided they colonize the Australian interior. I don't see how it could go wrong. Similarly, as a Canadian, I propose we colonize the north as fast as the permafrost melts. We must secure our sovereignty over the Northwest passage. 
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Nov 23, 2014 19:54
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Not to mention above the strip is Siberia and below it is the Taklamakan & Gobi deserts. So it might be less that people settled along the railroad so much as they built the railroad along the only habitable strip in their territory.
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Nov 23, 2014 19:54
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Albino Squirrel posted:As it turns out there was importation of diseases from the Americas to Europe; syphilis is (probably) native to the Americas. It is, however, the only clinically relevant pandemic native to the Americas. I think the most important factor here was human proximity to domesticated animals, in Eurasia you had way more species domesticated by people that played a much larger role in day-to-day life and formed a larger part of the diet. In Eurasia there were pigs, goats, cattle, sheep, fowl, horses, camels, dogs etc etc, comparatively in America you had only Llamas, dogs, Turkeys, Guinea pigs and that's about it (I think some parts of Peru had muscovy ducks as well?). Because people lived very closely with their animals, sometimes right alongside them at winter, it was very easy for diseases to jump between them, Measles for example derived from rinderpest that effects cattle. The presence of animals like horses also made long range communication, trade and warfare much easier among various people of Eurasia compared to the Americas, thus diseases could be spread easier. So yeah, when it came to it Eurasians lived in a world way more conductive to incubating disease over the millenia and spreading them out over the landmass, while Native Americans had to deal with thousands of years worth of Smallpox, Measles, Cholera, Diphtheria and a whole lot else crashing into them over a few decades and without any resistance.
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Nov 23, 2014 19:56
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Koramei posted:^^ The population of pre-Columbian americas is basically a guessing game and estimates range from 10 million to 200 million. Mesoamerica did probably have a higher population than the Andes though.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:01
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Geshtal posted:Not to mention above the strip is Siberia and below it is the Taklamakan & Gobi deserts. So it might be less that people settled along the railroad so much as they built the railroad along the only habitable strip in their territory. Yeah, the railroad took a very long time to finish (about 25 years), and as a result it was designed so that it would have ends of phases mostly close to any existing population centers along the general route. Although it was also designed to minimize the need to buy private land, and as such avoided actually entering prominent towns and cities most of the time, and even bypassed the most major city along the way, Tomsk (though that was more due to Tomsk being nearby a portion of the Ob river with very marshy and unstable banks that they couldn't handle crossing by rail). The city built where the railroad crossed that river, Novosibirsk, is these days 3 times larger than Tomsk is. It would probably be even more if further developments during the Soviet era hadn't provided Tomsk with somewhat better rail and road connections, as it was Tomsk was at the end of a dead end line connected to the Trans-Siberian.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:10
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Generation Internet posted:Similarly, as a Canadian, I propose we colonize the north as fast as the permafrost melts. We must secure our sovereignty over the Northwest passage. It's all Denmark's!  
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Nov 23, 2014 20:12
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Denmark is the country that couldn't even properly colonize Greenland, where all of five people live. I don't think they're going to be major geopolitical players anytime soon.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:16
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Torrannor posted:It's all Denmark's!    Phlegmish posted:Denmark is the country that couldn't even properly colonize Greenland, where all of five people live. I don't think they're going to be major geopolitical players anytime soon.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:29
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Kennel posted:Not too hard. I always love how obvious major river valleys are on population density charts and the historical data just makes it more so. I mean in the pre modern maps you can see the individual rivers in the Punjab
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Nov 23, 2014 20:30
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah, we could've made a killing selling authentic Inuit hands. The DRC is considered to be 'the most populous French-speaking country outside of France' (even with half of its population being incapable of speaking the official language), which is quite the accomplishment for such a small state when you think about it. Here is the approximate geographical distribution of the four national languages of the DRC:  I actually didn't know Swahili reached that far west.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:54
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System Metternich posted:The article you linked referred to this map of Serbia by ethnicity: Theres another majority Roma sliver in Kursumlija.
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Nov 23, 2014 21:55
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Albino Squirrel posted:As it turns out there was importation of diseases from the Americas to Europe; syphilis is (probably) native to the Americas. It is, however, the only clinically relevant pandemic native to the Americas. Domestication of animals. Pre-Colombian America had only domesticated dogs and llamas, they basically didn't have any other animals. Turns out animals are the source of most of the really horrible diseases
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Nov 23, 2014 23:51
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 Let's play guess the map!
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Nov 24, 2014 02:20
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Do you know when was this map was made?
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Nov 24, 2014 02:55
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King Hong Kong posted:Do you know when was this map was made? looks like it's basing it's "this area is uninhabitable by the white man" suppositions on european death rates in Africa before quinine came into use as an anti-malarial prophylactic, so probably before the late 1870s. just in time for the Powers to use while they carved up Africa!
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Nov 24, 2014 02:59
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zeal posted:looks like it's basing it's "this area is uninhabitable by the white man" suppositions on european death rates in Africa before quinine came into use as an anti-malarial prophylactic, so probably before the late 1870s. just in time for the Powers to use while they carved up Africa! I found a source saying 1899 but was not sure. Note that the colonies are labeled, so it couldn't be before the 1880s.
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Nov 24, 2014 03:02
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King Hong Kong posted:Do you know when was this map was made? It has "Italian Somaliland" so no earlier than 1889, and it has "Congo State," which I take to mean the Congo Free State, so it's no later than 1908.
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Nov 24, 2014 03:02
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The map is from 1899 (or possibly the 1905 reprint) and comes out of a book entitled "A history of the colonization of Africa by alien races", the 1913 update/reprint (which has "Belgian Congo" in place of "Congo State") of which is on Archive.org.
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Nov 24, 2014 03:13
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So what's up with the very centre of Madagascar?
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Nov 24, 2014 03:13
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BBJoey posted:So what's up with the very centre of Madagascar?
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Nov 24, 2014 03:21
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Koramei posted:^^ It's not the most accurate at getting across population density in the Phoenix Basin and American Bottom around AD 1000, you'd be looking at about 20-30,000 people in the modern Phoenix area and about 120,000 in the St. Louis area based on most estimates.
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Nov 24, 2014 03:28
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Squalid posted:However Sleeping Sickness, spread by the tsetse fly, is to my knowledge confined to Africa. And Sleeping Sickness, besides being extremely dangerous for humans, can kill most large domestic animals in a few days. It was so deadly for horses and donkeys that much of Sub-Saharan Africa was essentially off limits for the animals. Here's a map of the distribution of Sleeping Sickness in Africa:
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Nov 24, 2014 03:30
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I don't think it's much of an honour to your old oppressors if the subject is a virulent disease
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Nov 24, 2014 03:33
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Generation Internet posted:Similarly, as a Canadian, I propose we colonize the north as fast as the permafrost melts. We must secure our sovereignty over the Northwest passage. I have a map, made by the government of Canada, which claims the above as their "exclusive economic zone" but claims as actual territory a triangle with a point at the north pole itself. That population map over time is really cool too. I'm surprised the area around Nigeria isn't populated earlier or more quickly. And that in 3000BC, Germancy is apparently more densely populated that Mesopotamia? How accurately can these numbers be known?
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Nov 24, 2014 04:17
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BBJoey posted:So what's up with the very centre of Madagascar? It's really really pleasant and pretty bug free up there in the highlands.
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Nov 24, 2014 06:36
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Generation Internet posted:Similarly, as a Canadian, I propose we colonize the north as fast as the permafrost melts. We must secure our sovereignty over the Northwest passage. They could dust off the Roblin City plan, which would have been a Baroque metropolis of 500,000 people with parks and promenades, on the site of what became Churchill. 
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Nov 25, 2014 04:34
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http://www.businessinsider.com.au/poll-how-americans-feel-about-the-states-2013-8 posted:We asked respondents — 1603 of them — to answer each question with a state that wasn’t their own. The poll was carried out using SurveyMonkey’s Audience feature, which was more accurate predicting the 2012 election than numerous traditional pollsters.  They should do it for Europe too but wars have broken out for less over here.
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Nov 25, 2014 11:29
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Somehow that answer seems really obvious. I'm guessing Bavaria would be black on the German version of the map.
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Nov 25, 2014 11:42
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Well, if you want a war, ask which country people want to have kicked out of the European Union. For a more interesting question: which state or country would you like to join the USA or the EU?
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Nov 25, 2014 15:38
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Carbon dioxide posted:Well, if you want a war, ask which country people want to have kicked out of the European Union. Puerto Rico because they're very close to being a state, because it would strike a blow to all the 'English-only' nonsense coming out of right wing politicians, and because I just want to see what adding a state is like in my lifetime and they're the territory with the closest status to that.
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Nov 25, 2014 15:45
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Carbon dioxide posted:Well, if you want a war, ask which country people want to have kicked out of the European Union. I'm sure the USA would gladly welcome the United Kingdom as Airstrip One, our 51st state.
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Nov 25, 2014 15:46
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Carbon dioxide posted:Well, if you want a war, ask which country people want to have kicked out of the European Union. Is saying I want the USA to join the EU and the EU to become an American state a valid option?
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Nov 25, 2014 15:57
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Carbon dioxide posted:Well, if you want a war, ask which country people want to have kicked out of the European Union. I'm pretty sure everyone could civilly agree on the United Kingdom. Carbon dioxide posted:For a more interesting question: which state or country would you like to join the USA or the EU? That's even easier, it's Norway for all of that sweet, sweet oil money.
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Nov 25, 2014 15:58
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cebrail posted:I'm pretty sure everyone could civilly agree on the United Kingdom. The reality is probably closer to a more or less even shade across the entire map of Europe. DarkCrawler posted:Well, it was born here.
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