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I just had a crazy Judas run, 33BE GHEQ. Features include finding all Tears Up/Range Up/Balls of Steel pills despite missing PhD on not one but two shops, tons of damage items, early flight, Guppy Mode, getting not one not two but THREE angel rooms despite taking a Devil Deal on Basement II AND getting Ceremonial Robes in a Curse Room, and the d100. My payload was so powerful I took it all the way to ??? before using the d100, and proceeded to have fun clearing the Chest with other various insanely powered item sets. I easily no-hit both the Cathedral and the Chest. Good times.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:06
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TheModernAmerican posted:Yeah anyone saying devil and angel rooms have a 50/50 shot of appearing is full of poo poo. I've seen maybe ten angel rooms to a hundred or so devil rooms. And it was like that in WotL. In the original game, the extra criteria was that a devil room had to have already spawned at some point, meaning you couldn't get one as your first extra room. Nobody knows what the chance of a devil room becoming an angel room is yet in Rebirth and I don't think anybody said that either but it was definitely 50% in the original game.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:09
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TheModernAmerican posted:Yeah anyone saying devil and angel rooms have a 50/50 shot of appearing is full of poo poo. I've seen maybe ten angel rooms to a hundred or so devil rooms. And it was like that in WotL. Once you take a Devil Deal it locks it so you can only get Devil Deals and the opposite is not true (or at least it did in the original), so they are obviously going to be more rare unless you're consciously trying for them.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:12
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Brett824 posted:Once you take a Devil Deal it locks it so you can only get Devil Deals and the opposite is not true (or at least it did in the original), so they are obviously going to be more rare unless you're consciously trying for them. This was true in the last game but I swear on one of my earliest runs I took the first devil deal, skipped the next one I got, then wound up getting an angel room.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:13
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Kawalimus posted:This was true in the last game but I swear on one of my earliest runs I took the first devil deal, skipped the next one I got, then wound up getting an angel room. You didn't. Exchanging hearts for items in those rooms locks you out of Angel Rooms for the run.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:17
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Oxxidation posted:You didn't. Exchanging hearts for items in those rooms locks you out of Angel Rooms for the run. No way man, you can get both, taking a devil deal just decreases your chances of getting the angel room.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:26
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It worked like that in vanilla, but I'm pretty sure in Rebirth you can get angel rooms after taking a deal with the devil if your faith is high enough. And I say "pretty sure" because I don't know exactly how sin and faith work yet but I know I've gotten angel rooms after taking deals with the devil (and as Azazel, who starts with high sin).
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Nov 23, 2014 20:31
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you can get angel rooms after doing devil deals. the secret room can also spawn next to the starting room on the first floor now, another old isaac rule that is broken by the new one
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Nov 23, 2014 20:32
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Davincie posted:you can get angel rooms after doing devil deals. the secret room can also spawn next to the starting room on the first floor now, another old isaac rule that is broken by the new one Uh... what? The secret room can spawn adjacent to the starting room on basement 1 in the original, that was one of the most important strategies when trying to get "epic fetus WR speedruns"
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Nov 23, 2014 20:42
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Holy poo poo finally   Glad I remembered that staying still with 3 orbitals makes you pretty much immune to bullets.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:42
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Oxxidation posted:You didn't. Exchanging hearts for items in those rooms locks you out of Angel Rooms for the run. If you take a devil deal you can still get teleported into an angel room by a red chest or Joker card on a later floor, Angel Rooms just won't open up after the boss. pumpinglemma posted:If you use the Book of Belial you're guaranteed a devil or angel room on that floor. I didn't know this, yay for having a new thing to do towards unlocking stuff besides resetting for Pyromaniac/Dr. Fetus/Epic Fetus with Isaac and Lost runs.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:45
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 Anyone know what the third item is? I started with it and the Poop and I'm not sure what it is.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:46
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Genocyber posted:
Isn't that the negative?
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Nov 23, 2014 20:48
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My game now gets stuck on the initial loading screen - I've tried it on PS4 and Vita, I've un/reinstalled it, reset the systems countless times, but it just won't let me play  Online it looks like it's a fairly common error but I can't see any fixes - anyone had any luck?
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Nov 23, 2014 20:53
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Brett824 posted:Once you take a Devil Deal it locks it so you can only get Devil Deals and the opposite is not true (or at least it did in the original), so they are obviously going to be more rare unless you're consciously trying for them. I'm talking only about the basement 2 chance. 9/10 times it's a devil room, and it's laughable to say they have an equal chance.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:54
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TheModernAmerican posted:I'm talking only about the basement 2 chance. 9/10 times it's a devil room, and it's laughable to say they have an equal chance. Basement 2 is always a devil deal, you can't get an angel room before you see (and pass up) a devil deal.
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Nov 23, 2014 21:02
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Brett824 posted:Basement 2 is always a devil deal, you can't get an angel room before you see (and pass up) a devil deal. I'm pretty sure I've had an angel room in Basement 2 at some point. As far as I'm aware refusing to buy something from Satan only decreases the chance of devil rooms spawning, and thus increases the chance of an angel room. I might have gotten lucky and picked up one of the items that increase the chance of an angel room appearing, though.
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Nov 23, 2014 21:08
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Power of Pecota posted:If you take a devil deal you can still get teleported into an angel room by a red chest or Joker card on a later floor, Angel Rooms just won't open up after the boss. This still isnt entirely true, unlike the original BoI you CAN get an Angel Room after taking a Devil deal at some point, AND vice versa. It is, however, very very rare. As in, taking an item from one very significantly decreases the chance of the other. In fact I'm pretty sure the percentages are somewhat dynamic; I took a devil deal once, refused the next one I saw, and then later got an Angel room. Evil and faith, as well as stuff like the pentagram and bible, and perhaps sin and soul hearts, play some sort of role too, although who knows how much/little for most of them. Unless there is some other mechanic I'm unaware of going on, that is. But if you want more Angel Rooms, your best bet is still refuse all devil deals and evil up items, and hope for a goat head in a gold chest.
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Nov 23, 2014 21:12
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Jesus christ, I had a Lost game that started with Epic Fetus where the following drops were - Mom's Underwear (Basement 1 boss) - Magneto (Basement 2 Treasure) - Meat! (Basement 2 Boss) - Judas' Shadow, nothing else (Basement 2 Devil room) - Dead Bird (Caves 1 Treasure room) - Safety Pin (Caves 1 Boss) - Money = Power (Caves 2 Treasure room) - Poison Touch (Caves 2 Boss) - Three red chests, friendly spiders/friendly flies/Pandora's Box with 2 keys and 2 bombs inside (Caves 2 Devil Room) - Leo (Necropolis 1 Treasure room) I hate these ticking time bomb runs where you know you're hosed if you don't get SOMETHING soon, and as soon as I walked into a 4 Mask of Infamy room with no rocks or gaps it was just like yep bye
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Nov 23, 2014 21:15
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IGgy IGsen posted:I'm pretty sure I've had an angel room in Basement 2 at some point. As far as I'm aware refusing to buy something from Satan only decreases the chance of devil rooms spawning, and thus increases the chance of an angel room. In the first game you could get devil deals in basement 2 since your actions carried over if you didn't close the game. So if you didn't take your last devil deal and started a new game you would have a shot at an angel room on floor 2. But this game I think resets everything so you'll never get it there unless there's some remote chance I'm not aware of. But I've never seen it.
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Nov 23, 2014 21:15
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Isn't that the negative? I picked up the Polaroid later and comparing the two, yup it's the negative. Pretty silly that you can start with it as Eden but w/e.
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Nov 23, 2014 21:17
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Genocyber posted:I picked up the Polaroid later and comparing the two, yup it's the negative. Pretty silly that you can start with it as Eden but w/e. Well it does do something so it may as well be in the pool. The blindfold, now that would be silly.
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Nov 23, 2014 21:23
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   I think I need to take a break.
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Nov 23, 2014 21:27
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Sanctum posted:20/20 is my ongoing disappointment. Quad shot + 20/20 does nothing. Technology + 20/20 does nothing. Brimstone + 20/20 does nothing. I guess that's how 20/20 is balanced? Doubles your damage if you have regular tears but has no interactions with any other tear effects; it's either an insane upgrade or entirely useless. 20/20 works with Dr. Fetus, and Epic Fetus too I believe. Other than that, yeah it doesnt have a lot of other synergies with tear modifiers. But for vanilla tears, out of triple shot, quad shot, or 20/20, I'd take 20/20 every single time. Max tear rate piercing shielded 20/20 is one of the funnest rebirth runs I've had so far, nothing in the chest could touch me. If you have Dr. Fetus though do pick up quad shot if you can find it. It DOES rain down four missles in rapid succession. Just be sure not to be standing anywhere close to it when it does.
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Nov 23, 2014 22:27
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I just won with eden by lucking out and getting a prayer card on the first floor. One room full of 48 energy pills later and I had 12 hearts by the third floor.
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Nov 23, 2014 22:33
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Brett824 posted:Uh... what? The secret room can spawn adjacent to the starting room on basement 1 in the original, that was one of the most important strategies when trying to get "epic fetus WR speedruns" really? i've been following that rule for nothing then
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Nov 23, 2014 22:39
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Is it just me or does it seem like one of Laz's "features" is that he seems to get nothing but lovely RNG. Every time I sit down to try and get something done with him I'm amazed at the constant poo poo he gets in item rooms, lack of keys/bombs, and last run I think every other room had a champion in it. Hell Grub shat a champion little grub out I'm fairly certain.
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Nov 23, 2014 22:59
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TheModernAmerican posted:There's nothing stopping devil and angel rooms spawning on consecutive floors. There absolutely is a hard cap. IF you spawn a devil room on one floor, the chance of it spawning on the next floor are 0% outside of special circumstances like Goat Head. And as the person who answered my question pointed out, Book of Belial forces a spawn too. Honestly that kind of makes the goat head a lot more underwhelming in comparison to the book then- you'll likely use the book at least once a floor if you have it.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:00
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Poizen Jam posted:There absolutely is a hard cap. IF you spawn a devil room on one floor, the chance of it spawning on the next floor are 0% outside of special circumstances like Goat Head. And as the person who answered my question pointed out, Book of Belial forces a spawn too. Where are you getting this info?
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Nov 23, 2014 23:01
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Poizen Jam posted:Honestly that kind of makes the goat head a lot more underwhelming in comparison to the book then- you'll likely use the book at least once a floor if you have it. The head is a passive though, which adds some value.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:03
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Theres a much lower chance of getting a Devil Room two floors in a row, but it is possible. I got that last night. It was at best a 1% chance, IIRC, in the original.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:03
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Ariong posted:Where are you getting this info? Pretty sure the info is wrong. Devil and Angel rooms can spawn in as many consecutive floors as there are floors that can spawn them. The trick is to be fast and to not get red heart damage. Op characters and ??? and Azazel have a higher chance of getting devil and angel rooms because of that.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:04
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While things may have changed in Rebirth, the formula used to be:Binding of Isaac Wiki posted:Base probability = 1% It appears, aside from the carryover effect, that the formula remains mostly unchanged in Rebirth. So speed ought not to have anything to do with it. Getting a devil room also significantly lowers the chance you will see one on the next floor, and moderately so on the floor following it. For consecutive floors, it's unlikely a room spawn will occur barring a perfect run + an additional item boosting the chances (like Book of Revelation or Belial).
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Nov 23, 2014 23:18
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As far as the devil/angel room stuff goes, talking about WotL can become very confusing because there was a bug where if you started a run after one where you had gotten a devil room you would retain your modifier from wherever it was that you left off, and be eligible for angel rooms from the beginning (basement 1 with a teleport/ basement 2 after the boss). This wasn't as sought after as you might think though, because as I said you retained your devil room modifier from wherever the previous run left off, until you got a devil/angel room after a boss or until you got to the floor that you were on when the last run left off. Meaning that if you got a devil room on womb 1 and died on womb 2 then restarted, your devil/angel room chance would be multiplied by .25 until you got to womb 2. As far as misnomers in Rebirth go, Evil up really just means black hearts, if it had anything to do with devil rooms then surely the items that we KNOW increase devil rooms would say it, but they don't. (Book of Belial, Pentagram, Goat Head, etc.) In a similar manner, faith up generally only means soul hearts, though as far as I know the only actual item that has "faith up" as it's description is the rosary, which also increases your chances of the bible showing up. Trinkets are different story though, until somebody goes in and tears apart the code we don't really know what the black lipstick(evil up), rosary bead(faith up), or bible tract(faith up) do. It's pretty obvious to anyone who has used it that the "evil up" of the daemon's tail increases black heart drops from all sources that drop non-specific hearts. However it's Mom's Pearl that has a soul heart increasing effect, so we should assume that the bead and bible tract don't do that. It could stand to reason that the rosary bead might have the bible appearance effect from the rosary. That leaves the bible tract and black lipstick, which could very well have an effect on devil/angel rooms, but there's no way to prove it one way or another (unless it's a 100% chance an nobody has picked up on it).
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Nov 23, 2014 23:25
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can somebody just dive into the code instead of all of this speculation
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Nov 23, 2014 23:45
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Tollymain posted:can somebody just dive into the code instead of all of this speculation If it's anything like the original game's code, it will be a spaghetti nightmare full of flags both useless and non-functional amidst old builds compiled on top of the current one held together with bubblegum, duct tape, and a little pinch of love to form a fairly indecipherable lump of code. But this one wasn't made in Flash so hopefully it's not like that.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:52
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Speaking of confirming things debated in this thread... I just got 3 bandaid balls and didn't get the achievement. I did get the achievement after 4 meat cubes however. Sadly, I went into a spike room in the womb without the health to get out, I forgot it did double damage at that point. Guppy's Collar kept putting me back in that room.
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Nov 24, 2014 00:15
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I have the Ludovico Technique and Death's Touch already, would Ipecac do anything to that or should I just give this boss rush a pass?
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Nov 24, 2014 00:17
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I also meant to post about dying with a respawn item in the curse room, you need to die without actually going through the door, which you can do by just slowly edging up to the spike door or bombing yourself, otherwise you have momentum to get through the door and you die outside, which then causes you to respawn in the previous room (meaning the curse room).
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Nov 24, 2014 00:21
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Poizen Jam posted:While things may have changed in Rebirth, the formula used to be: There is absolutely no reason to believe that this hasn't been changed in some way. I know that I personally get back to back devil rooms pretty frequently and see more devil rooms in general in Rebirth.
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Nov 24, 2014 00:57
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