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I think they called him Penguin before the limp because of how he dressed. Remember how his mom complimented his dress-sense? Everyone else was making fun of him for it.
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Nov 21, 2014 22:38
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muscles like this? posted:Is that Steve Cirbus as the Russian mobster? That's kind of hard to take serious. Some Delocated fans casting this show I guess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39XD3726ydA
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Nov 21, 2014 22:58
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Dalael posted:I like fish's character. I dont think there is anything wrong with her. She is a woman intoxicated with power, overly ambitious and definitely conniving. Ppl say she's exagerated... not at all. I'm not sure I have a problem with the character really, I just have a problem with how awful Jada Smith is at portraying it. I mean, in a show full of eyerolling, groan-worthy performances, she's not bad in a good way, she's just bad. I don't know if it's the writing, or just JP.Smith's acting ability, but she needs to go. I can't imagine the writers are putting "Fish makes a face like her butt plug just got forced in further than intended by the manufacturer, and screams 'EVERYBODY GET OOOOOOOOOOOOOUT!!!!!!!!!!!'" or what, but she's loving terrible.
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Nov 22, 2014 15:04
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Inkspot posted:Nygma brought Bullock the nametag he fished out of bomb fragments The 'detective' work on the show is so perfunctory - it's always first place they go - Bam! - that's the guy. Oh I found this address in the bomb wreckage. The goat killer was right back at the same hideout from 10 years ago. This guy that got killed with office supplies was applying for a job at Sionis - walk in and everyone has bandages and broken noses.
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Nov 22, 2014 20:09
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chapstickie posted:I think they called him Penguin before the limp because of how he dressed. Remember how his mom complimented his dress-sense? Everyone else was making fun of him for it. Yea he was penguin because he wore tuxes and poo poo, it was the least hamfisted 'GET IT' they had, not a good one mind you, but I can see dumb crooks being all 'ha ha lookit this penguin' about a nerdy dude who wears tuxes and probably thinks himself above a lot of them. I suppose I was too hard on the shadow face thing, considering I'm positive that in the first draft they had the dude Dent snapped at and threatened say 'you really are a two faced guy' or something else.
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Nov 22, 2014 20:48
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Wabbit posted:The 'detective' work on the show is so perfunctory - it's always first place they go - Bam! - that's the guy. Oh I found this address in the bomb wreckage. The goat killer was right back at the same hideout from 10 years ago. This guy that got killed with office supplies was applying for a job at Sionis - walk in and everyone has bandages and broken noses. Haven't you heard? Gotham's the best police procedural on television, and people just can't get enough of that Jada Pinkett-Smith's naturalistic performance. But really, can anyone name a single reason why she isn't Roulette other than the inevitable Penguin/Fish line? That's some Christmas Jones-level poo poo.
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Nov 22, 2014 20:55
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Gawain The Blind posted:I'm not sure I have a problem with the character really, I just have a problem with how awful Jada Smith is at portraying it. I mean, in a show full of eyerolling, groan-worthy performances, she's not bad in a good way, she's just bad. I don't know if it's the writing, or just JP.Smith's acting ability, but she needs to go. I can't imagine the writers are putting "Fish makes a face like her butt plug just got forced in further than intended by the manufacturer, and screams 'EVERYBODY GET OOOOOOOOOOOOOUT!!!!!!!!!!!'" or what, but she's loving terrible. So would you have rather she calmly walks out to every table and politely ask people to leave? What is the issue here? At that point, her boy toy just got his rear end kicked, her 'boss' pretty much let her know he was on to her? I think Fish is one of the most real characters out there, and I think her performance is good considering what kind of person Fish is suposed to be. The only scenes in which I didn't like her, was when all the bosses meets falcone in what seems to be a aircraft hangar. Her little show of support for Falcone, and her argument with the russian dude, was awful. Other than that, I think her char is very well played. Now that Russian dude, now THAT was bad acting.
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Nov 22, 2014 22:47
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Dalael posted:So would you have rather she calmly walks out to every table and politely ask people to leave? What is the issue here? She should at least have a fancy office for her crime business.
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Nov 22, 2014 23:11
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Drifter posted:She should at least have a fancy office for her crime business. Sionis bought up every abandoned office building in the city and refuses to lease them out for some strange reason.
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Nov 22, 2014 23:23
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Jerusalem posted:Sionis bought up every abandoned office building in the city and refuses to lease them out for some strange reason. No, I meant in her restaurant. Like, renovate a bathroom or something and do your super-shady dealings that not even the corrupt cops can know about in there.
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Nov 22, 2014 23:42
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But how would they have scantily clad dancers rehearsing at the back of a renovated bathroom?
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Nov 23, 2014 01:09
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I think this show's weird mash-up of super grimdark brutal killings and campy over the top hammy acting is actually a fitting tribute to the entire batman franchise.
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Nov 23, 2014 01:09
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Drifter posted:She should at least have a fancy office for her crime business. I disagree. Its the whole point of Gotham City. Crime is so prevalent, people are so corrupt.. Big time criminals don't even bother hiding it anymore, because that is how untouchable they are by the law. That is why Gotham needs batman. I think those scenes are just perfect.
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Nov 23, 2014 05:22
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Dalael posted:I disagree. Except they do. The entire point of Penguin's status as a triple (?) agent and Fish's rando stripper turned Italian mother/girlfriend figure is that the smart criminals are keeping their poo poo on the DL. Falcone hides his meetings, Marone meets in his restaurant when it's empty or at least a bit away from the customers' area, even the loving Russian had his scumbag drug warehouse thing. Fish is literally the only big player who does her poo poo in the open and that's why literally everyone knows her plans. She's lovely at her job. I like her as a character but the entire point is that she thinks she's way smarter than she is.
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Nov 23, 2014 05:33
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I love Cobblepot and Nygma way too much. It's the only things that matter in this show. Anyway, my comic book knowledge is only limited to Marvel. How many of these bad guys in Gotham are villains/regulars from the Batman series?
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Nov 23, 2014 23:12
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Windows 98 posted:How many of these bad guys in Gotham are villains/regulars from the Batman series? I believe Fish and her Russian boyfriend are the only non-regular comic characters? Unless Montoya's partner is a new creation, though since he doesn't actually have a character that probably doesn't count.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:43
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Jerusalem posted:I believe Fish and her Russian boyfriend are the only non-regular comic characters? You mean Cripus Allen?
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Nov 23, 2014 23:46
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Jerusalem posted:I believe Fish and her Russian boyfriend are the only non-regular comic characters? Pretty much fish I think, but nigma and cobblepot are fantastic, Gotham does have a Batman: Year one vibe and I do like that I don't get the hate.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:49
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Windows 98 posted:I love Cobblepot and Nygma way too much. It's the only things that matter in this show. Cobblepot = The Penguin Nygma = The Riddler Selina/Cat = Catwoman Young girl from pilot = Poison Ivy Harvey Dent = Two-Face Zsasz = Zsasz Psycho bully kid = Hush Banker bad guy = Black Mask's dad I think that's all of the villains we've seen so far
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Nov 23, 2014 23:49
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bobkatt013 posted:You mean Cripus Allen? Is that who he is? He's been such a non-entity that I often forget he exists until he shows up and I go,"Oh hey it's that guy, that guy who is always standing slightly to Montoya's side." I guess him being a spectre is about the most subtle thing the show has done so far.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:52
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Jerusalem posted:Is that who he is? He's been such a non-entity that I often forget he exists until he shows up and I go,"Oh hey it's that guy, that guy who is always standing slightly to Montoya's side." Anyways Allen isn't an original character, he was one of the leads in the Gotham Central comic that revolved around the GCPD. Fish is really the only major character in the show who didn't come from the comics.
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Nov 24, 2014 00:03
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Rarity posted:Cobblepot = The Penguin Uhm, I think you're forgetting the amazing lynchpin that keeps all the disparate Batman franchises grounded in comic book reality. I speak, of course, of Balloonman.
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Nov 24, 2014 00:36
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Gotham Central was actually a really solid comic. Anybody who is interested in the ideas of Gotham would probably enjoy it. I does take place D.B. (during batman), but it focuses on the non-susperhero side of the cop stuff.
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Nov 24, 2014 00:36
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Drifter posted:Gotham Central was actually a really solid comic. Anybody who is interested in the ideas of Gotham would probably enjoy it. I does take place D.B. (during batman), but it focuses on the non-susperhero side of the cop stuff. I still like Gotham but I'll never forgive it for not just being a TV interpretation of Gotham Central.
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Nov 24, 2014 01:24
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Balloon Man was the highlight of this show until it started actually being good two episodes ago instead of just campy.
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Nov 24, 2014 01:43
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mastajake posted:Balloon Man was the highlight of this show until it started actually being good two episodes ago instead of just campy. With the Professor Pyg mask!
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Nov 24, 2014 01:50
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Wabbit posted:The 'detective' work on the show is so perfunctory - it's always first place they go - Bam! - that's the guy. Oh I found this address in the bomb wreckage. The goat killer was right back at the same hideout from 10 years ago. This guy that got killed with office supplies was applying for a job at Sionis - walk in and everyone has bandages and broken noses. It's almost like watching a comic book, isn't it?
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Nov 24, 2014 02:02
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mastajake posted:Balloon Man was the highlight of this show until it started actually being good two episodes ago instead of just campy. I still think the best episode was the one with the super-strong addicts running around the city, culminating in an old philosophy professor tearing his zimmer frame apart and throwing Bullock around the room.
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Nov 24, 2014 02:19
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Jerusalem posted:I still think the best episode was the one with the super-strong addicts running around the city, culminating in an old philosophy professor tearing his zimmer frame apart and throwing Bullock around the room. Best scene ever in this show, is when Penguin admits to Maroni that he used to work for fish. That was just too funny.
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Nov 24, 2014 04:11
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Leviathan posted:
Awesome. 
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Nov 24, 2014 06:30
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Jerusalem posted:I still think the best episode was the one with the super-strong addicts running around the city, culminating in an old philosophy professor tearing his zimmer frame apart and throwing Bullock around the room. And ends with Bullock shouting "What's altruism?!" at him.
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Nov 24, 2014 10:51
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Bert Roberge posted:I think this show's weird mash-up of super grimdark brutal killings and campy over the top hammy acting is actually a fitting tribute to the entire batman franchise. The only problem is that good camp is usually executed by writers and performers who actually know they're supposed to be doing camp. 
Leviathan fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Nov 24, 2014 |
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Nov 24, 2014 13:36
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Leviathan posted:The only problem is that good camp is usually executed by writers and performers who actually know they're supposed to be doing camp. Hmm. Some of the best camp is completely unintentional and naive. The Room, for instance, or the home scenes from Sleepaway Camp. Susan Sontag wrote a bit about camp in the 80's, and she talked about it being essentially undefinable, but it's often characterised by complete earnestness and commitment despite everything being essentially preposterous and misguided. There's no such thing as "good" camp, in the purest sense. It can't be well-executed, only accidentally stumbled upon, and requires people to actively read against the material they're experiencing (one form of which is hate watching). That said, there's a certain affectation that's come to be associated with dominant forms of camp, and that's led to the creation of Camp as a genre. Pushing Daisies being a good example of a show that adopts the appearance of those crappy old movies and shows without actually being crappy itself. And that's something that Gotham's trying to be, quite knowingly. Nun road block? Come on. It's occasionally actively poor, and often doesn't live up the image of the series that a lot of fans expected it to, but I don't think that makes it a bad show, far from it. I think the biggest fault in the show is that characters like Gordon and Barbara aren't allowed to go for broke and be completely batshit iterations of themselves. They've got to "ground" the narrative, so the executives and exit poll guys won't throw a hissy and send even more notes.
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Nov 24, 2014 14:18
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lotus circle posted:Yeah he's sort of blended into the background next to Montoya, who only seems to be used now for relationship drama since Jim isn't on her shitlist now. Allen was also the Spectre.
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Nov 24, 2014 14:56
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Open Source Idiom posted:Hmm. Some of the best camp is completely unintentional and naive. The Room, for instance, or the home scenes from Sleepaway Camp. Susan Sontag wrote a bit about camp in the 80's, and she talked about it being essentially undefinable, but it's often characterised by complete earnestness and commitment despite everything being essentially preposterous and misguided. There's no such thing as "good" camp, in the purest sense. It can't be well-executed, only accidentally stumbled upon, and requires people to actively read against the material they're experiencing (one form of which is hate watching). Undoubtedly some "good" camp is unintentional, but I beg to differ with your premise that all camp can't be intentional or executed; that it's simply some ethereal experience which appears out of nowhere like the first time a 3d stereoscopic image pops out from a poster. The appearance of complete earnestness and commitment you describe may exist, but the actors in much camp I've seen are still reciting their lines under a plainly tongue-in-cheek veil. You don't think the absurdity of Charlie's Angels or Pink Flamingos or Hocus Pocus was a given for everyone involved in the projects from start to finish? Simply put, there can be camp without having to read against your lines or improv. Sure, Gotham may have the occasional scene like the nun road block or Oswald waddle where I'm sure everyone in the writers' room was having a good snicker, but I guarantee you that every dramatic scene written for Fish this season contained no such self-awareness (as evidenced by the caught-unawares martini girl in the "EVERYONE OUT" gif). Fish Mooney in this show is not unintentionally camp to me, just unintentionally bad. One of the biggest criticisms of the show thus far is that the tone is remarkably schizophrenic, and the disconnect reveals itself as we jump scene to scene between hard-boiled-grisly and comically absurd. The show would be infinitely better if the writers would just grab on to one of the two aesthetics and run with it. Leviathan fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Nov 24, 2014 |
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Nov 24, 2014 17:21
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Could you say that the show has.. two faces? GOTHAM
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Nov 24, 2014 17:29
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At this point, the dichotomy of those elements is so disparate that it's half the appeal of the show (the other half being a depiction of Bruce that's troubling without being needlessly introspective). I mean, Cat Barbara's a trash character, but maybe they're writing her like that so when Gordon finally dumps her rear end, there won't be that much audience attachment to her.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:12
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Soft Shell Crab posted:Could you say that the show has.. two faces? GOTHAM You're the clown prince of puns.... GOTHAM
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Nov 24, 2014 20:36
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Probably Magic posted:At this point, the dichotomy of those elements is so disparate that it's half the appeal of the show (the other half being a depiction of Bruce that's troubling without being needlessly introspective). I mean, Cat gently caress continuity.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:41
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Leviathan posted:Sure, Gotham may have the occasional scene like the nun road block or Oswald waddle where I'm sure everyone in the writers' room was having a good snicker, but I guarantee you that every dramatic scene written for Fish this season contained no such self-awareness (as evidenced by the caught-unawares martini girl in the "EVERYONE OUT" gif). Fish Mooney in this show is not unintentionally camp to me, just unintentionally bad. It seems pretty clear to me that she's basing her voice and mannerisms on the Cat-women from the Adam West show, which is the usual go-to example of intentional camp. Leviathan posted:The only problem is that good camp is usually executed by writers and performers who actually know they're supposed to be doing camp. You seem to have a fundamentally different idea of what 'camp' entails than any other I've come across.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:18
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