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口伝 is what they are called in the LN too, which translates to "oral tradition/instruction" apparently.
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Nov 23, 2014 12:48
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 22:41 |
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Yeah, that's what I assumed from the sound. Which explains why she thought she needed someone to teach her one: that's exactly what it sounds like. "Teachings" isn't perfect, but it's close enough for what the audience is expected to assume.
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Nov 23, 2014 12:51
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Clarste posted:Unless it says "Overskill" in katakana somewhere in the novels, I would trust the words that are actually coming out of the characters' mouths more than some term seemingly made up by an amateur translator because he thought it sounded cool. It's 口伝 in the novel, without a Katakana-reading e: oops, should've checked the next page
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Nov 23, 2014 13:40
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口伝 (kuden) is "an 奥義 (ougi) or 秘伝 (hiden) passed on orally", where ougi's dictionary entry is: "secret ┌lore [techniques, teachings]; hidden [inner] mysteries; esoterica; esoterics; the ┌mysteries [secrets] 《of an art》; the ┌heart [essence, quintessence] 《of ┌a skill [an art]》; the ┌deepest [highest, supreme] level 《of an art》." and hiden's is: "a secret; a recipe; a mystery." So now you can make up your very own translation in your head!
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Nov 23, 2014 13:51
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Also interesting to note that 口伝 is composed of the kanji for "mouth" and "to tell."
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Nov 23, 2014 15:12
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I thought the most recent episode and the battle were pretty decent and fun to watch, but looking back on it what was the point of any of it? If they were just going to turn off his magic armor anyway, what's the point with bothering with the massive raid? Why not just do that at the beginning, rather than at the end? That seemed completely dumb. Unless they weren't sure they were going to get that support from Lenessia and they thought they had to beat him even with the armor? If that was the case it wasn't communicated that clearly, it seemed pretty clear she was gonna get the grid shut off. (Also why do so many people here use Raynesia, are there that many people reading the novels?)
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Nov 23, 2014 15:27
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LiquidRain posted:Also interesting to note that 口伝 is composed of the kanji for "mouth" and "to tell." Yes, which is why it means "oral tradition". It's probably one of the more straightforward words in any language. The other skills ranks (although this isn't really a skill rank, it's initially compared to one) are 初伝, 中伝, 奥伝, and 秘伝, which you'll note all end with 伝, meaning "communication" or "tradition". The logical pattern they follow is something like "beginner's teachings", "middle teachings", "esoteric teachings", and "secret teachings". I guess the implication of "oral teachings" is that you can't learn it at all without meeting someone who knows it, which is why Akatsuki went around asking people. Clarste fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Nov 23, 2014 |
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Nov 23, 2014 15:31
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XboxPants posted:I thought the most recent episode and the battle were pretty decent and fun to watch, but looking back on it what was the point of any of it? If they were just going to turn off his magic armor anyway, what's the point with bothering with the massive raid? Why not just do that at the beginning, rather than at the end? That seemed completely dumb. They weren't sure if it was going to get turned off since she's not exactly in charge of the system at all, the Kunie Clan is and we've seen that they're not always so accommodating, this time being an exception because they had some responsibility in the incident. Another aspect is that the royal guards are also there to protect the NPCs. If the Round Table hadn't been established and the relationship between adventurers and landers been softened, the royal guard system is needed to ensure their safety and it's not without loopholes.
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Nov 23, 2014 15:56
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Clarste posted:Except it's not supposed to be clear what it is: Akatsuki had no clue what they were. It's also supposed to follow the naming scheme of the other 4 ranks of skill, which all have to do with being taught or learning. Unless it says "Overskill" in katakana somewhere in the novels, I would trust the words that are actually coming out of the characters' mouths more than some term seemingly made up by an amateur translator because he thought it sounded cool. I once made this argument in /a/ and they pointed me straight to the web novel link where it says 'オーバースキル'. (It's here). Apparently it's how they're called in the US server. (Yamato server naturally simply says '口伝') (FYI that's basically japanese FFn and it's where Mamare hosts the web novel which is more or less the pre-editors version) XboxPants posted:I thought the most recent episode and the battle were pretty decent and fun to watch, but looking back on it what was the point of any of it? If they were just going to turn off his magic armor anyway, what's the point with bothering with the massive raid? Why not just do that at the beginning, rather than at the end? That seemed completely dumb. Even with the magic armor turned off he still had raid boss stats. As far as I'm aware they weren't relying on Tatara's contribution plus they still had to immobilize him to pull that trick off. And with the magic armor he could just port away if he felt he was losing. Kyte fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Nov 23, 2014 |
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Nov 23, 2014 17:45
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For me watching this week's episode, it seemed like they had the Murderer without needing turn off magic to the city but then the overall story line indicates that doing so was a necessity regardless. Therefore, I don't really know or care whether or not it was needed. It was done and now we have a situation where they adventurers and PotL now need to deal with the consequences. Sounds interesting.... I got the whole idea of "Teachings" as "something you needed to learn on your own that's unique to you, the Adventurer alone." Pretty cool. If WoW could have m level 90 toon go on some sort of quest or whatever to learn a skill that only he knew, that would rock. The term "oral tradition" doesn't really fit because that would mean something passed down from person to person, orally. Not "learn on your own unique to you" but "I told you this and your therefore now know that. Etc." So, I think "Teaching" might be a better way of looking at it. Flavor Text though. Made me wonder. What? Why not "weapon back story" or something straight forward? I wondered if taste was involved for a moment.
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Nov 23, 2014 18:38
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So what part of "there might be uses for these superpowers we have outside of what they were coded for in the game?" was so hard for anyone to explain to a short ninja?
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Nov 23, 2014 19:14
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Dan7el posted:Flavor Text though. Made me wonder. What? Why not "weapon back story" or something straight forward? I wondered if taste was involved for a moment. Because flavor text is how it's typically called in actual games. Dzhay posted:So what part of "there might be uses for these superpowers we have outside of what they were coded for in the game?" was so hard for anyone to explain to a short ninja? Plus to me it seems there is a bit of a self-realization trigger there, to 'force' the skill to work outside its own parameters.
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Nov 23, 2014 19:30
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Dzhay posted:So what part of "there might be uses for these superpowers we have outside of what they were coded for in the game?" was so hard for anyone to explain to a short ninja? I'm sort of used to the idea of teachers being vague on the premise that you'll learn better, provided you figure it out for yourself.
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Nov 23, 2014 19:31
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Dan7el posted:Flavor Text though. Made me wonder. What? Why not "weapon back story" or something straight forward? I wondered if taste was involved for a moment. Because "Flavor Text" is a MMO/RPG term that predates the franchise. It's like wondering why they have "Health Points".
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Nov 23, 2014 19:33
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I've never heard that term, but I figured the term must be a standard. I still couldn't help but think it was odd -- at least at first. I've played all kinds of MMO's too. One time, I was talking to a co-worker of mine who had worked at Vicarious Visions as a game developer and I said, "my toon..." talking about my character in WoW and he didn't know what I was referring to. Interesting that the "flavor text" is just now starting to become active. I wonder if it will affect Adventurers in some way. Say...changing personalities.
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Nov 23, 2014 19:47
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I was ready to give up on this show entirely because that whole arc was poo poo, but if we're jumping back to Shiroe and Co. there's no way I can miss that. Call it a mid-season 3-episode-test.
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Nov 23, 2014 19:49
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So if you can craft your own items, would it be possible to write the flavor text for them? And if flavor text is acquiring the same cachet as "real-world effects", what's to stop you from writing flavor text that makes your weapon indestructible, or any number of unbelievably powerful attributes?
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Nov 23, 2014 20:15
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DrSunshine posted:So if you can craft your own items, would it be possible to write the flavor text for them? And if flavor text is acquiring the same cachet as "real-world effects", what's to stop you from writing flavor text that makes your weapon indestructible, or any number of unbelievably powerful attributes? Tatara made her own flavor text for the reforged Haganemushi, remember? But it's probably not as gamey as that. Flavor text reflects an item's history and origins, so my guess is either you can't put a fake text or it simply wouldn't do anything. Or hell, it might just be an automatic process based on the crafter's feelings and intentions. In my eyes it's not so much 'the flavor text becomes real' as 'the item's backstory [which is described in the flavor text] becomes real'. And stuff like 'indestructible' and such are part of the item description (the other text box that shows up), not the flavor text.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:20
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I'd lean towards the flavor text being generated from the circumstances about the item, rather than being written. It seems more sensible that the adventurers just have an ability to divine the circumstances of an item and get the divination delivered in the shape of a flavor text.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:26
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Kyte posted:Tatara made her own flavor text for the reforged Haganemushi, remember?
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Nov 23, 2014 20:28
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Sindai posted:I'm pretty sure she didn't do that, the text changed on its own after the fight was over. That said I changed my mind on the flavor text comes to be. nielsm posted:I'd lean towards the flavor text being generated from the circumstances about the item, rather than being written. It seems more sensible that the adventurers just have an ability to divine the circumstances of an item and get the divination delivered in the shape of a flavor text. Kyte fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Nov 23, 2014 |
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Nov 23, 2014 21:27
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Kyte posted:Both in the LN and in the anime the flavor text is told right in the middle of the fight.
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Nov 23, 2014 21:44
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One detail that gets to me is the little icon that pops up when she gets her 口伝. The whole point of them is that they aren't part of the game engine, no?
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Nov 23, 2014 23:21
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genericnick posted:One detail that gets to me is the little icon that pops up when she gets her 口伝. The whole point of them is that they aren't part of the game engine, no? They are though, they're not new, and they existed before the apocalypse. It is one of those things where I'd wonder how a video game coded by humans could have such a system, like the seemingly infinite number of professions, if I were actually playing it.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:42
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Desuwa posted:They are though, they're not new, and they existed before the apocalypse. It is one of those things where I'd wonder how a video game coded by humans could have such a system, like the seemingly infinite number of professions, if I were actually playing it. The game's supposed to have been around a long time. I could see the number of professions getting that high over the years. As far as the skills go, maybe they could be activated by trying to use a "greyed-out" non-combat skill during combat in a specific situation.
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Nov 23, 2014 23:48
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Yo, i don't wanna butt in to the riveting flavor text discussion, and i'm still building a buffer and not watching the series yet, but i just wanted to take the time to appreciate this:tiistai posted:DEEN cut so many corners in this episode I'm surprised the screen ratio wasn't pi. Thanks. That was a good post that made me laugh.
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Nov 24, 2014 00:00
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genericnick posted:One detail that gets to me is the little icon that pops up when she gets her 口伝. The whole point of them is that they aren't part of the game engine, no? Yes but that doesn't mean the HUD (which is a function of whatever world magic powers stuff like resurrection and whatnot and already allowed for Rudie's subclass) is incapable of recognizing it.
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Nov 24, 2014 00:06
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Dan7el posted:I've never heard that term, but I figured the term must be a standard. I still couldn't help but think it was odd -- at least at first. I've played all kinds of MMO's too. That doesn't surprise me much. People in MMOs don't talk about flavor text very often, and I believe the term originally comes from card games like Magic the Gathering. It's definitely a part of modern geek vocabulary, but I wouldn't heavily associate it with MMOs, imo. Personally I was more surprised that they borrowed the term "Kiting" in Japanese.
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Nov 24, 2014 02:10
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As far as I'm aware English is the mothertongue for the grand majority of MMO terms (and gaming ternms in general). In my experience with Spanish, even when we have perfectly good equivalents we still end up using the English versions since much of the content you consume will be in English anyways. Wouldn't be surprised if it's the same in Japan, especially in communities that play western MMOs like Everquest.
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Nov 24, 2014 02:39
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well, Japan uses a ton of english loanwords anyway. Kiting was just surprising a bit since its derived from an acronym so the term is pretty much meaningless in foreign tongues.
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Nov 24, 2014 03:10
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Blhue posted:well, Japan uses a ton of english loanwords anyway. Kiting was just surprising a bit since its derived from an acronym so the term is pretty much meaningless in foreign tongues. Wait what acronym? I always assumed it to have arisen as a result of some kind of "holding it on a line a set distance away" connotation.
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Nov 24, 2014 03:14
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A jargogle posted:Wait what acronym? I always assumed it to have arisen as a result of some kind of "holding it on a line a set distance away" connotation. Yeah I always assumed it was related to kites, especially since kiting was a word that existed before MMOs and it's basically operating on the same principle!
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Nov 24, 2014 03:16
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Killing In Transit. KITing. That's my understanding of the word's origins anyway.
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Nov 24, 2014 03:42
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Blhue posted:Killing In Transit. KITing. That's my understanding of the word's origins anyway. Haha, what? That's some kind of backronym there. The origin of "kiting" was as people say, running around with monsters following you like kites on a string. It was first popularized in the original Everquest, where certain classes (loving druids) were able to kite things around that were intended to take a party to beat, at little or no risk to themselves.
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Nov 24, 2014 03:46
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You know, Shiroe and everyone else is going to have to install a police force to keep everything in line. And after that having a trial and jury is going to be a pain since everyone is immortal. Speaking of which would psychological damage be considered more heinous to adventurers given their ability to heal all injuries without worry?
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Nov 24, 2014 03:52
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Can't wait until we see reverse kiting, or my personal favorite: quad kiting :human being:
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Nov 24, 2014 03:52
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Kyte posted:As far as I'm aware English is the mothertongue for the grand majority of MMO terms (and gaming ternms in general). As a native Spanish speaker with MMO and MOBA-playing friends (not a player myself, though, I've failed to get interest in both types of games), I can say this is very much true. Despite how those terms could be translated, they're instead lazily made into things that could be Spanish but are clearly mangled English, giving us fun terms I can't exactly remember right now but they're pretty silly. I'm not too surprised Japan does the same, and it's probably the same for every language. Also I'm so glad we're done with Akatsuki's side. At least the final battle was neat. Now back to Shiroe which should be more interesting, because I want to stop saying that I'm enjoying Sword Art Online more, it feels weird.
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Nov 24, 2014 04:23
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Nipponophile posted:Haha, what? That's some kind of backronym there. The origin of "kiting" was as people say, running around with monsters following you like kites on a string. It was first popularized in the original Everquest, where certain classes (loving druids) were able to kite things around that were intended to take a party to beat, at little or no risk to themselves. There's also a financial kiting term that predates it, which is like playing hot potato with fraudulent checks.
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Nov 24, 2014 04:38
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Nipponophile posted:Haha, what? That's some kind of backronym there. The origin of "kiting" was as people say, running around with monsters following you like kites on a string. It was first popularized in the original Everquest, where certain classes (loving druids) were able to kite things around that were intended to take a party to beat, at little or no risk to themselves. Does "train to zone" still see any use or is that heavily outdated as monsters no longer mercilessly persue players across the fields and gank everyone entering a new zone as soon as they load anymore? I don't really play MMO's much anymore.
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Nov 25, 2014 10:08
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That's pretty old-school, yeah. Modern MMOs give mobs a leash distance by default, usually.
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Nov 25, 2014 10:33
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