|
Cat Machine posted:
Stanley Odd! Saw them at the A Night For Scotland gig. Though I think the point was that he wasn't celebrating Thatcher being dead. But yeah Scottish rappers going on about the poll tax amuses me. One of my pals skipped out on RIC purely to see Stanley Odd and then missed that bit cos he was trying to run back in time for the Common Weal session. Not gonna lie though, the Red Hot Chilli Pipers and glitter cannons would totally do it for me. Also, so totally a toxx!
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 19:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 11:13 |
|
|
Cat Machine posted:Embarrassed to admit I dogged part of RIC to go to this with my SNP-diehard girlfriend. It was one of the most surreal experiences of my life and I came away thoroughly regretting my participation. Wow. It sounds like a cross between some sort of American pentecostal mega-church event and a realistic depiction of hell.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 19:04
|
|
|
Fans posted:You can just admit you're wrong you know. I'll be sure to do that as soon as it happens. quote:And if you don't think there's been a lot of polling data on if we want to stay in the EU I don't know what to say. It's been a pretty prominent issue for years, we've got a good timeline of public opinion. Yes, taken months apart. Hence why a poll from six months ago is not irrelevant as it is some of the latest data available. quote:Right now the polls show No, a poll from a polling company has shown. The link i've just provided has us voting to remain 56% to 36% in their latest poll in October.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 19:25
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:Yes, taken months apart. Hence why a poll from six months ago is not irrelevant as it is some of the latest data available. Weren't we using YouGov? Weird how you've suddenly decided to switch to a different Polling Company. Why'd you link YouGov in the first place if you don't trust them? Edit: I unironically like the Red Hot Chilli Pipers but the RIC still sounded weird as all gently caress. I guess they're really trying to get a media push going, curious to see if it works better than the other parties. Fans fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Nov 24, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:01
|
|
|
Fans posted:Weren't we using YouGov? Though if you include the people who wouldn't vote as secretly agreeing with Pissflaps, which I believe is the standard way to do things, it shows the same thing, so it's a done deal
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:04
|
|
|
Fans posted:
RIC and the SNP Tour are not the same thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:09
|
|
|
Lugaloco posted:RIC and the SNP Tour are not the same thing. Argh! Yeah sorry, go the two mixed up. The important thing though, is there a video of that Thatcher Rap? You can't hint at something that bizarre and not give us the full show.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:17
|
|
|
Fans posted:Argh! Yeah sorry, go the two mixed up. The important thing though, is there a video of that Thatcher Rap? You can't hint at something that bizarre and not give us the full show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqfVICUKtl8&t=7621s The nice thing about watching the Hydro thing on youtube instead of in person is that you can skip through all the cringeworthy parts (i.e. most of it). There's a better-produced version here with the lyrics written out, if you're that interested.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:24
|
|
|
Angepain posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqfVICUKtl8&t=7621s I actually quite like this, despite myself.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:30
|
|
|
Fans posted:Weren't we using YouGov? When did I link to Yougov's EU polling data? Why do you think I 'distrust' them? You think it's 'weird' to look at the results from more than one polling company? Really? Were you always intending to produce strawman arguments and attribute links to me that I have not used or are you thinking on your feet as your argument - such as it is - heads south?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:32
|
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:I actually quite like this, despite myself. I was prepared for a monumental car crash of spite but it's really not that bad at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:33
|
|
|
Fans posted:I was prepared for a monumental car crash of spite but it's really not that bad at all. Aye, it's not bad. Still not as good as Loki, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sWzeGNe29A quote:So now you're all good socialists oh?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:35
|
|
|
It's my opinion that when nationalists say 'Tories' they mean 'English'. It's dog whistle racism.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:38
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:When did I link to Yougov's EU polling data? Why do you think I 'distrust' them? Here I think you distrust them because suddenly you're using a different polling company that comes to different conclusions because it turned out YouGov doesn't support you. quote:You think it's 'weird' to look at the results from more than one polling company? Really? I think it's weird to start looking at a different polling company when I point out the YouGov data was six months old and their more recent data doesn't support your position. quote:Were you always intending to produce strawman arguments and attribute links to me that I have not used or are you thinking on your feet as your argument - such as it is - heads south? Sorry what did I attribute to you? You did link a YouGov poll. You did argue it shows that the Country is on the "Stay in" side. I pointed out that poll is Six Months old and YouGov is currently saying the public is in the "Leave the EU Camp". You tried to argue a Six Month old poll is still "relevant" when it's actually six months old and then linked a completely different Polling Company pretending you were using those figures all along, despite, as shown above, you weren't.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:38
|
|
|
Fans posted:Here I'm sorry, I made a mistake. Fans posted:I think it's weird to start looking at a different polling company when I point out the YouGov link you used was six months old and their more recent data doesn't support your position. I think it's weird to stick to one polling company... Fans posted:Sorry what did I attribute to you? You did link a YouGov poll. You did argue it shows that the Country is on the "Stay in" side. I pointed out that poll is Six Months old and YouGov is currently saying the public is in the "Leave the EU Camp" ...because another polling company shows a preference for remaining within the EU. That's why only looking at one company in isolation is a mistake. Do you think Yougov is more trustworthy than Ipsos Mori? Why?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:41
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:Do you think Yougov is more trustworthy than Ipsos Mori? Why? I don't think they're more trustworthy. I was just pointing out you were linking old data.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:42
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:It's my opinion that when nationalists say 'Tories' they mean 'English'. It's dog whistle racism. That hasn't been my experience with Scottish nationalists at all, and I spent a week surrounded by them during the referendum. Actually, there were plenty of English people among them
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:It's my opinion that when nationalists say 'Tories' they mean 'English'. It's dog whistle racism. As a person from England I can tell you that you are very wrong
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
Fans posted:I don't think they're more trustworthy. I was just pointing out you were linking old data. The Ipsos Mori data is from October.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:The Ipsos Mori data is from October. I didn't complain about the Ipsos Mori data. The original post you linked only used data that went up to last May.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:47
|
|
|
Yeah ummm English Scots for Yes might have something to say about that. The first RIC Glasgow takeover, there was a guy ranting near us about how all Yes activists were anti-English racists and all English people wanted Scotland to stay. It took approximately 0.3 seconds for an English Yesser to appear and set him straight. Heck, we'd happily have taken a whole chunk of Northern England with us to save them from the Tories too. Also, cultural responses to the referendum make me really happy. Some people were going on about how cringey the "democracy rocks" thing was, but making politics something that artists are responding to and making it a cool thing to be involved in is really only going to be a good thing for political engagement.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:51
|
|
|
Spooky Hyena posted:Lacking in substance, really. There may be a good case for opposing income tax devolution, but appeals to history and "solidarity" aren't a way to do it. Neither's appealing to the military and "the ties that bind", neither of which are very popular in Scotland. It won't convince anyone that wasn't convinced already, so it seems like yet another dig at the SNP on tribal grounds - which is what's making Scottish Labour fail so badly right now. They need to oppose things that are unpopular in Scotland right after taking a side in a very controversial vote, and siding with the Tories against the SNP is absolutely not the way to do it. What about what he said about having to cut in a downturn and paying higher rates of interest?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:51
|
|
|
Fans posted:I didn't complain about the Ipsos Mori data. The original post you linked only used data that went up to last May. Fans posted:Right now the polls show that people are in favor of leaving the EU. You can argue a lot of things about why that is or that it's only a temporary shift, but what you can't argue is that they don't show a shift in opinion towards leaving. You and a previous poster made the claim that polling data shows the UK has a preference for leaving the EU. I've provided data from older - but still historically recent - polls by Yougov and the latest polls from Ipsos Mori that disprove that claim. Looking at one poll - either chronologically or by pollster - is a mistake.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 20:54
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:You and a previous poster made the claim that polling data shows the UK has a preference for leaving the EU. This is getting tedious so I'll make this the last one. Initially you just provided the YouGov polls. I pointed out then that the article with them in was 6 months old and more recent articles from exactly the same site has more recent polling data that shows the UK has a preference for leaving the EU. You seem to have confused this with me saying that all polling data from all sources are showing this and linked the Ipsos Mori one, which I guess is fair because of my wording but it wasn't my point and doesn't make your initial claims correct retroactively because the YouGov data was still outdated. I hope you understand the problem with using old data to back up a claim when newer data is available? Using Polls from May to predict what'll happen when we've got much more recent Polls to choose from is cherry picking data. Fans fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Nov 24, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:11
|
|
|
Decided to pick up the first copy of The National today out of curiosity and I've got to say that I can't see me buying it again, or at least not regularly. Best word I can think of to describe it is "insubstantial". Didn't even have the football results in there. And it does seem as parochial as Scottish nationalism gets at its worst: there's 4 whole pages of world news, lots of big pictures clearly just to fill up space, and hell, there's next to gently caress all about the RIC events at the weekend which you think would be a big deal within the Scottish independence movement. I like the idea of a pro-indy daily paper on the basis that it's healthy for the debate for more sides to be acknowledged but there's just so little there. Did they just have the idea on Friday to launch this thing & then rushed into it? It seems ill conceived & I certainly expect more from a newspaper. Too early to actually tell if they are going to be willing to criticise the SNP when they inevitably gently caress up & do bad poo poo (like an apparent willingness to support TTIP so long as there is an exception for the NHS), but yeah, I remain to be convinced that it's good enough at what it's trying to do.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:26
|
|
|
Acaila posted:Yeah ummm English Scots for Yes might have something to say about that. The first RIC Glasgow takeover, there was a guy ranting near us about how all Yes activists were anti-English racists and all English people wanted Scotland to stay. It took approximately 0.3 seconds for an English Yesser to appear and set him straight. While this : Pissflaps posted:It's my opinion that when nationalists say 'Tories' they mean 'English'. It's dog whistle racism. is indeed wrong, you might want to speak to some of the English no activists about their experiences during the campaign. I have a ( Scottish) friend who campaigned for no and he said the English activists who campaigned along side him were consistently abused in a much worse fashion than the Scottish ones. One memorable quote from a girl from liverpool who went home in tears was: "There's only so many times you can take being called an English oval office". Any campaign based on nationalist rhetoric is going stir up unpleasant stuff like that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:28
|
|
|
When you say from Liverpool, do you mean she'd moved from Liverpool to Scotland or lives in Liverpool and just came up to campaign for Better Together? Because I'm sure you can see how the latter would tick some people off.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:30
|
|
|
Speaking of those, apparently some of the Labour folk bussed up to Edinburgh ended up saying they actually lived in Leith cos they were always getting asked if they actually lived here. Then, of course, folk started asking where in Leith and they got rather stumped. And by the sounds of it, she must live in Liverpool and not here, cos "oval office" is frankly punctuation in many parts of Scotland!
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:36
|
|
|
Acaila posted:Speaking of those, apparently some of the Labour folk bussed up to Edinburgh ended up saying they actually lived in Leith cos they were always getting asked if they actually lived here. Then, of course, folk started asking where in Leith and they got rather stumped. Coohoolin posted:When you say from Liverpool, do you mean she'd moved from Liverpool to Scotland or lives in Liverpool and just came up to campaign for Better Together? Because I'm sure you can see how the latter would tick some people off. So abuse like "gently caress off home you English oval office." is ok as long as they are not on your team?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:43
|
|
|
Coohoolin posted:When you say from Liverpool, do you mean she'd moved from Liverpool to Scotland or lives in Liverpool and just came up to campaign for Better Together? Because I'm sure you can see how the latter would tick some people off. Pissflaps posted:You and a previous poster made the claim that polling data shows the UK has a preference for leaving the EU.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:59
|
|
|
Being an English person living in Scotland and supporting either campaign is a far sight different from living in England and bussing up to Scotland to campaign for the British establishment. Sure, some people bussed up from England to support the Yes vote, but the BT parties were actively enlisting people from south of the border. If you can't see the difference I'll just assume you're being disingenuous and move on.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 21:59
|
|
|
Coohoolin posted:Being an English person living in Scotland and supporting either campaign is a far sight different from living in England and bussing up to Scotland to campaign for the British establishment. Sure, some people bussed up from England to support the Yes vote, but the BT parties were actively enlisting people from south of the border. If you can't see the difference I'll just assume you're being disingenuous and move on.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:04
|
|
|
Not to mention paying them for it too! Some people in Scotland are indeed rather sensitive to being told what to think by English people. That doesn't mean that, as was Pissflaps' original point that we are all dogwhistle racists to whom Tories = English. Like, we are quite capable of hating Tories on their own...I was going to say merits but yeah...
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:06
|
|
|
Scottish dislike of the English is dwarfed by their sectarian dislike of other Scots.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:20
|
|
|
Well he said dogwhistle. He doesn't have to justify it because hey it's coded, and if you can't see past it that's because it's so well coded but it's there regardless. You see the same thing from conspiracy theorists "decoding" Bush's speeches for an order to blow up the twin towers, and it's just as convincing done then.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:21
|
|
|
Coohoolin posted:When you say from Liverpool, do you mean she'd moved from Liverpool to Scotland or lives in Liverpool and just came up to campaign for Better Together? Because I'm sure you can see how the latter would tick some people off. Just because it may "tick some people off" doesn't give any excuse to being abused like that. You're effectively blaming the victim.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:22
|
|
|
Acaila posted:Some people in Scotland are indeed rather sensitive to being told what to think by English people. So they would be fully justified in telling ThomasPaine or Coohoolin to "gently caress off you English oval office" or does that only apply if they are campaigning for no ? What if the yes campaign had given them expenses does that make it ok?
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:22
|
|
|
No, but complaining about it as if it's a one-sided thing and proof that Scottish Nationalism Is Bad based on anecdote isn't the magic bullet you think it is. Besides, there's been plenty of anti-Scottish sentiment from No-supporting English, it's been all over English newspaper comment sections and Twitter for months. If you really want to play at oppression olympics, you have to somehow quantify "English oval office" on one hand and "you should have died in Dunblane" on the other and decide what's worse. Which is why no one reasonable plays oppression olympics.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:27
|
|
|
Spooky Hyena posted:there's been plenty of anti-Scottish sentiment from No-supporting English, it's been all over English newspaper comment sections and Twitter for months
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 11:13 |
|
|
dadrips posted:Both Twitter and comment sections are well-known cesspits, and are easily ignored. Words being shouted in your face are a little trickier to get about. I'm not defending nationality-based insults at all, I've got the same feeling about that as when someone attacks Coohoolin for not being a true scotsman. It's just that bringing it up to justify the whole codified racism thing to make one side look better is just oppression olympics.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:34
|
|