Let's Read the Sword of Truth books! (Or not. Can we not?)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Let's Read the Sword of Truth books! (Or not. Can we not?)

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Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 207 days!

DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, "we made X of these EVER" is much less terrible than "we have a constant magic-thief factory pumping out new trainees". But they are still both duuuuuumb.

I'm going to give them a break because I don't think they knew a way to actually destroy the things, so not upsetting the "looks like they're obeying orders" status quo was probably the best they could do once the prototypes were turned on. Plus the Dark One probably made them like 10x worse than they were supposed to be, like when he decided that Myrddraal should be a thing that just randomly happens every few hundred or so Trollocs.

Unless the Dark One's special crazy magic kills them? Except that stuff was even worse to use than Balefire.

# ? Nov 24, 2014 23:15

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 09:56

Perestroika: Apr 8, 2010

DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:

That loving thing posted:
[...]The only deviation from the blood red of it was a yellow crescent and star across her stomach.[...]

I know it's kinda minor next to, well, everything, but goddamn it Goodkind. "Hmm, what iconic symbol should I give this order of rapist torturers? Oh, I know, I'll take the one representing a major religion". I can't even tell if he's just been completely thoughtless in this choice of if he's trying to make some inane point.

# ? Nov 24, 2014 23:56

The Vosgian Beast: Aug 13, 2011; Business is slow

Perestroika posted:

I know it's kinda minor next to, well, everything, but goddamn it Goodkind. "Hmm, what iconic symbol should I give this order of rapist torturers? Oh, I know, I'll take the one representing a major religion". I can't even tell if he's just been completely thoughtless in this choice of if he's trying to make some inane point.

The answer depends on whether this book was written before or after 2001.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 01:04

claw game handjob: Mar 27, 2007; pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

The Vosgian Beast posted:

The answer depends on whether this book was written before or after 2001.

1994.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 01:07

claw game handjob: Mar 27, 2007; pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

Steam's down, so you get more of this.

A reminder: this post is nothing I would read on the job.

Rather reasonably, the Queen takes poorly to the news that Richard has nearly murdered her daughter and is about to skip town in Denna's carriage.

quote:

Denna tossed the end of his chain on the floor. "Get in."

Richard grabbed the sides of the door. He dimly heard someone approach in a huff. Denna gave a little tug to the chain, indicating she wanted him to wait where he was.

"Denna!" It was the Queen, at the head of her advisors.

"Mistress Denna," she corrected.

The Queen looked to be in a foul mood. "Where do you think you are going with him?"

"That is none of your concern. It is time we were on our way. How is the Princess?"

The Queen glowered. "We don't know if she will live. I will be taking the Seeker. He is to pay."

"The Seeker is the property of myself and of Master Rahl. He is being punished, and will continue to be punished until either Master Rahl, or myself, kills him. There is nothing you could do to him that could equal what is already being done."

"He is to be executed. Right now."

Denna's voice was as cold as the night air. "Go back to your castle, Queen Milena, while you still have a castle."

Richard saw a knife in the Queen's hand. The guard standing next to him unhooked his battle-axe, gripping it tightly in his fist. There was a crystal clear moment of silence.

The Queen backhanded Denna and lunged with the knife for Richard. Denna effortlessly caught her with the Agiel against her large chest.

As the guard went past him, raising the axe to Denna, the strange power roared awake. Richard summoned all his strength, became one with the power. He hooked his left arm around the guard's throat and drove his knife home. Denna gave a casual glance back as the man let out a death scream. She smiled, and her eyes glided back to the Queen, who stood shaking, paralyzed in place, the Agiel between her breasts. Denna gave a twist to the Agiel. The Queen dropped straight down in a heap.

Denna turned her glare to the Queen's advisors. "The Queen's heart has given out." She arched an eyebrow. "Unexpectedly. Please express my condolence to the people of Tamarang on the death of their ruler. I would suggest you find a new ruler who is more attentive to the wishes of Master Rahl."

Eventually, the carriage ride ends and they are in D'Hara, where we see this series' take on religion. Spoilers: it's two hours of chanting one phrase while kneeling. I get the feeling Goodkind is not so fond of gods.

quote:

The days passed with a numbing sameness. Richard didn't mind the devotions, because he wasn't being trained, hurt. But he hated saying the words, and had to concentrate on Denna's braid the whole of the time he chanted. Chanting the same thing, hour after hour, on his knees with his head against the floor tiles, was hardly less onerous than the training. Richard found himself waking at night, or in the morning, chanting the words. Master Rahl guide us. Master Rahl teach us. Master Rahl protect us. In your light we thrive. In your mercy we are sheltered. In your wisdom we are humbled. We live only to serve. Our lives are yours.

In the midst of these scenes we learn that touching the Agiel hurts Denna as much as it does Richard, as it was the one she was trained with. Richard thus earns himself a shitload of trouble by asking someone else take over his training - and later, when she is much less pissed, he tells Denna it's because he doesn't want her being hurt on his behalf. Blah blah kindness.

There is a second named Mord-Sith in this segment. Her name is Constance. She is the very caricature of a man-hating lesbian. This segment will summarize perfectly.

quote:

Constance put her face close to his, as best she could, considering her height, and grabbed him between his legs.

"Take good care of this for me," she sneered. "You aren't going to have it much longer. I have reason to believe Master Rahl will shortly be reassigning you to me, and when he does, I'm going to alter your anatomy." A grin spread on her face. "And I don't think you're going to like it."

Eventually comes the day when Richard is to be presented to Rahl. The day before, he summons Denna. Upon her return, we learn how Mord-Sith are made. Spoilers: a mommy and daddy are involved but then it gets hosed up.

quote:

"You don't understand about the Mord-Sith, my love. We are carefully selected, as young girls. Those chosen to be Mord-Sith are the most gentle, the most kind-hearted, that can be found. It is said that the deepest cruelty comes from the deepest caring. All of D'Hara is searched, and each year only about a half dozen are chosen. A Mord-Sith is broken three times."

His eyes were wide. "Three times?" he whispered.

Denna nodded. "The first is the way in which I broke you, to break the spirit. The second is to break our empathy. To do it, we must watch our trainer break our mother, and make her his pet, and watch him hurt her until she dies. The third is to break us of our fear of hurting another, to make us enjoy giving pain. To do it, we must break our fathers, under the guidance of our trainer, and make him our pet, and keep hurting him until we kill him."

Tears trickled down Richard's cheeks. "They did all this to you?"

"What I did to you, to break you, is nothing compared to what must be done to us to break us the second and third time. The more kindhearted a girl is, the better Mord-Sith she makes, but it makes it harder to break her the second and third time. Master Rahl thinks me special because they had a very difficult time with the second breaking of me. My mother lived a long time, to try to keep me from giving up hope, but that only made it harder. On both of us. They failed at the third breaking, had given up, and were going to kill me, but Master Rahl said that if I could be broken, I would be someone special, and so took over my training himself. He is the one who broke me the third time. On the day I killed my father, he took me to his bed, as a reward. His reward left me barren."

Richard could hardly speak past the lump in his throat. With shaking fingers, he brushed some of her hair back off her face. "I don't want anyone hurting you. Not ever again, Mistress Denna."

"It is an honor," Denna whispered through tears, "that Master Rahl would spare the time to punish one as low as me with my own Agiel."

Richard sat numb. "I hope he kills me tomorrow, so I don't have to learn anything else that gives me this much pain, Mistress Denna."

Her wet eyes shone in the lamplight. "I have done things to hurt you that I have done to no other, yet you are the first person since I was chosen who has done anything to stop my pain." She sat up, picked up the tin bowl. "There is some left. Let me put it on you where Constance did what I told her not to."

Denna spread the aum cream on the welts on his shoulders, then on his stomach and chest, working up to his neck. Her eyes met his. Her hand stopped. The room was dead quiet. Denna leaned forward and gently kissed him. She put her hand with the cream on the back of his neck and kissed him again.

She lay back on the bed, holding his hand against her belly with both of hers. "Come to me, my love. I want you very badly right now."

He nodded and started to reach for the Agiel on the side table. Denna touched his wrist.

"Tonight, I want you without the Agiel. Please? Teach me what it's like without the pain?"

She put a hand behind his neck and gently pulled him on top of her.

Ughhhhh. I'm sorry, I tried to edit this down to two parts only of Richard and Denna Power Hour, but no, it's going to have to bleed into three. Next time, more Rahl.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 01:28

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

The really hosed up thing here is how the religion-thing later turns out to protect people from an evil, mind-bending magical Stalin invading their dreams, I poo poo you not.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 01:40

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

Libluini posted:

The really hosed up thing here is how the religion-thing later turns out to protect people from an evil, mind-bending magical Stalin invading their dreams, I poo poo you not.

Yeah, except doesn't it turn out later that just going "I'm on board with your 'not being conquered by anti-Objectivist Genghis Khan' plan" turns out to be enough?

# ? Nov 25, 2014 01:43

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

So I guess I completely missed the amazing part with John Galt the peasant. I was hoping you'd include his speech in its entirety because that's by far my favorite part of the book

# ? Nov 25, 2014 01:57

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Plague of Hats posted:

Yeah, except doesn't it turn out later that just going "I'm on board with your 'not being conquered by anti-Objectivist Genghis Khan' plan" turns out to be enough?

Could be I've bailed out before that happens. I certainly don't remember it anymore. But I do certainly expect Goodkind to pull this poo poo on us!

# ? Nov 25, 2014 02:02

claw game handjob: Mar 27, 2007; pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

I Love You! posted:

So I guess I completely missed the amazing part with John Galt the peasant. I was hoping you'd include his speech in its entirety because that's by far my favorite part of the book

The guy in the original visit to the Queen's palace? I swore I posted that, but I'll go back and see.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 02:03

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

I could have just missed it. It's so good though I don't know how I'd blow by something like that. Admittedly I don't remember where exactly in the book it happens but I know the queen has to still be alive.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 02:04

claw game handjob: Mar 27, 2007; pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

Are you talking about this dude, end of the post?

# ? Nov 25, 2014 02:09

DrPossum: May 15, 2004; i am not a surgeon

thespaceinvader posted:

I normally don't read too hard but even at 11 or 12 this bothered the poo poo out of me. You can add beard but you can't add air between beard and skin what kind of lovely wizard are you?

its almost like the author has no concept of formal logic and semantics and is just writing masturbatory text that pops into their head.

i'm actually thinking about how this book is entirely (as someone else well put it earlier) so completely over the top that it has wrapped back upon itself in unbelievability

i gave up on this series a few books in when it was obvious TG was just going to make poo poo up so he didn't have to think too hard to keep things going. I had blocked almost EVERYTHING about this series out of my head, even that, until i literally had to google painrape dildos (sorry mom when they find that). i forgot to the point where only the "eat your own junk" scene was the worst thing that came to mind when I heard disney was making their syndicate premiere

but lets read on

# ? Nov 25, 2014 02:17

I Love You!: Dec 6, 2002

DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:

Are you talking about this dude, end of the post?

Oh poo poo, totally can't believe I missed that post. Man, what a cool guy.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 02:28

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

PleasingFungus posted:

and... wow, fewer than a hundred pages of mord-sith? honest to god, when this thread started, I would have sworn it was the latter half of the first book.

I would have sworn this poo poo was in a different book and took a lot of the book up. :confused:

# ? Nov 25, 2014 02:45

Sindai: Jan 24, 2007; i want to achieve immortality through not dying

You might be thinking about the other time Richard gets kidnapped and bossed around by women.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 03:27

SSJ_naruto_2003: Oct 12, 2012

Plague of Hats posted:

Yeah, except doesn't it turn out later that just going "I'm on board with your 'not being conquered by anti-Objectivist Genghis Khan' plan" turns out to be enough?

Funnily enough, yes. Which is kind of against the objectivist thing, isn't it? People that actually want him dead can swear fealty to him and somehow be protected.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 03:30

AmyL: Aug 8, 2013; Black Thursday was a disaster, plain and simple.
We lost too many good people, too many planes.
We can't let that kind of tragedy happen again.

Night10194 posted:

I can, at best, get you Catholicism or second temple Judaism. Maybe Gnosticism if I feel spicy.

Also, how the hell is this book 800 pages long? Even with the summarizing and cutting of the fat the plot still feels insanely sparse.

Oh come on, why not basing stuff off on Origen or Jansenism with a mixture of the Russian Catacomb Church?

# ? Nov 25, 2014 03:35

TheSmilingJackal: Apr 30, 2007; Don't worry, it's a very heavy feather.

Sindai posted:

You might be thinking about the other time Richard gets kidnapped and bossed around by women.

"Other time"? Try "any number of other times". Dick gets kidnapped in every drat book. The next ones don't have pain dildoes, but they do have collars!

One thing that stuck out to me, (I swear it is always the smallest strangest things): Danne refers to the people who train the Mord-Sith as male and states that they are trained with the pain dildo that will one day be theirs, but recons it later to be other Mord-Sith who presumably use their own pain dildoes.

I wonder if the recon was on purpose and he hoped no one would notice, or if he just forgot?

# ? Nov 25, 2014 07:07

Bucnasti: Aug 14, 2012; I'll Fetch My Sarcasm Robes

What was the deal with him concentrating on her braid?

# ? Nov 25, 2014 07:18

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

Doesn't she stick the pain dildo up his rear end?

Still plenty of crazy left: blatant islamophobia, attempted gang rape, ball eating

# ? Nov 25, 2014 07:25

TheSmilingJackal: Apr 30, 2007; Don't worry, it's a very heavy feather.

Bucnasti posted:

What was the deal with him concentrating on her braid?

In order for his rage magic not to hurt him he has to go to his happy place. She can, after a fashion, read his mind and has told him that his happy thoughts need to be about her or she will hurt him. He decided that her braid was pretty, so he thinks about that.

If that doesn't makes sense it is only because it is really stupid!

# ? Nov 25, 2014 07:37

AdjectiveNoun: Oct 11, 2012; Everything. Is. Fine.

It doesn't seem that stupid by WFL standards - he's rules-lawyering around her desire to make him a sex-slave by focusing on a part of her that's not sexual, while still technically obeying her command. Passive-aggressive petty rebellion seems totally in character for Dick Cypher.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 07:40

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

AmyL posted:

Oh come on, why not basing stuff off on Origen or Jansenism with a mixture of the Russian Catacomb Church?

Because the things I listed are things I have a master's degree in studying and intend to work on a PhD for.

Also, I'm guessing this is the climax of the book? Richard Wizard Dominatrix Bullshit?

# ? Nov 25, 2014 07:49

claw game handjob: Mar 27, 2007; pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

Night10194 posted:

Also, I'm guessing this is the climax of the book? Richard Wizard Dominatrix Bullshit?

Oh no. Oh NO, my friend. The last 100 pages leap from idiotic twist to idiotic twist so fast your loving head will spin.

I promise you, I'm tightening up the last updates on WFR now: this is not my editing that is the problem. The book jumps around this much in the full text. God willing, I'm going to have the capstone on this by Thanksgiving, and then I'll post some stuff about Legend of the Seeker between books.

claw game handjob fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Nov 25, 2014

# ? Nov 25, 2014 10:16

Hyper Crab Tank: Feb 10, 2014; The 16-bit retro-future of crustacean-based transportation

I've seen this series in bookstores and libraries since I was a kid, but I never got around to reading them, being glued to Wheel of Time and Discworld novels. Recently I went looking for something new to read and saw these again, but didn't pick them up because I don't like to buy books without reading (ha) up on them first. Then this thread happened, and boy howdy do I feel like I dodged a bullet here.

This book is insane! Who writes like this? Who publishes this? I thought the objectivist nonsense and bafflingly irresponsible wizards in the first half of this thread was eye-rollingly awful, but then the BDSM wizard stuff hit and my brain is just boggling. It's like it came straight out of a horrible 90s Usenet group named something like alt.sex.bdsm except it's also magic. And then Richard kicks a child in the mouth and the amount of detail Goodkind goes to when describing it can't be a sign of a healthy mind.

And to top off this horrible nightmare of a rape-fetish-objectivist-nonsense sandwich, the writing is not even particularly good! It's full of stilted sentences, sentence fragments and purple prose, sometimes all at once. I'm just stunned how anyone would want to read another one of these after the first, and how that one even got published.

Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Nov 25, 2014

# ? Nov 25, 2014 11:21

claw game handjob: Mar 27, 2007; pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

At this point, Richard is good and broke. Except, you know, not. Because of course he isn't.

quote:

Denna didn't train him the next morning, but instead took him for a walk. Master Rahl had said he wanted to see Richard after the second devotion. After it was over and they were starting to leave, Constance stopped them.

"You look surprisingly well today, Sister Denna."

Denna looked at her without emotion. Richard was furious at Constance for talking to Master Rahl about Denna, for getting her punished, and had to concentrate on Denna's braid.

Constance turned to Richard. "Well. I hear you are to be granted an audience with Master Rahl today. If you are still alive afterward, you will be seeing more of me. Alone. I want a piece of you, as it were, when he's finished with you."

He spoke before he thought. "The year they chose you, Mistress Constance, must have been a year of desperate need; otherwise, one of such limited intelligence would never have been selected to be Mord-Sith. Only the most ignorant would put their own petty ambitions above the value of a friend. Especially a friend who has sacrificed much for you. You are not worthy to kiss Mistress Denna's Agiel." Richard smiled smoothly, confidently, as she stood startled. "You had better hope Master Rahl kills me, Mistress Constance, because if he doesn't, then the next time I see you, I'm going to kill you for what you've done to Mistress Denna."

Constance stared in shock, then suddenly drove her Agiel toward him. Denna's longer arm came up. She slammed her own Agiel against Constance's throat, holding her back. Constance's eyes bulged in surprise. She coughed blood, and dropped to her knees, clutching her hands to her throat.

Denna stared down at her a moment before starting off without a word. Richard followed, attached by the chain. He sped up to walk beside her.

Denna kept her eyes ahead, showing no emotion. "Just try and guess how many hours that has earned you."

Richard smiled. "Mistress Denna, if there is a Mord-Sith who could raise a scream from a dead man, it would be you."

"And if Master Rahl doesn't kill you, how many hours?"

"Mistress Denna, there are not enough hours in a lifetime to dim my pleasure at what I have done."

She smiled a little, but didn't look over. "I'm glad, then, that it was worth it for you." She gave him a sidelong glance. "I still don't understand you. As you said, we can be no more, or less, than who we are. I regret I can be no more than I am, and I fear you can be no less. Were we not warriors fighting on opposite sides in this war, I would keep you as a mate for life, and work to see you die of old age."

Richard was warmed by her gentle tone. "I would try my best to live a long life for you, Mistress Denna."

Anyway, he's brought before Rahl and is perfectly tame until he thinks about Confessors, and then it all goes to poo poo as he murders two men despite all the pain Denna can throw at him. Rahl gives zero shits about this.

quote:

He smiled, licked his fingertips, smoothed them over his eyebrows. "Richard and I are going to have a private conversation now. While he is in this room with me, I wish you to let him speak without the pain of the magic. It interferes with what I may need to do. While he is here, he is to be free of your control. You may return to your quarters. When I am done with him, and if he is still alive, I will send him back to you, as promised."

Denna bowed deeply. "I live to serve, Master Rahl."

She turned to Richard, her face crimson, and put a finger under his chin, lifting it a little. "Don't disappoint me, my love."

The Seeker smiled. "Never. Mistress Denna."

He let the anger rage, just to feel it again, as he watched her walk away. Rage at her, and at what had been done to her. Don't think of the problem, he told himself, think of the solution. Richard turned to face Darken Rahl. The other's face was calm, showed nothing. Richard made his do the same.

"You know I want to know what the rest of the book says."

"Kill me."

Rahl smiled. "So eager to die, are we?"

"Yes. Kill me. Just like you killed my father."

Darken Rahl frowned, the smile still on his lips. "Your father? I have not killed your father, Richard."

"George Cypher! You killed him! Don't try to deny it! You killed him with that knife at your belt!"

Rahl spread his hands in mock innocence. "Oh, I don't deny killing George Cypher. But I have not killed your father."

Richard stood caught off guard. "What are you talking about?"

Darken Rahl strolled around him, watching his eyes as Richard tried to follow him by turning his head. "It's quite good. It really is. The best I have ever seen. Done by the great one himself."

"What?"

Darken Rahl licked his fingers and stopped in front of him. "The wizard's web around you. I've never seen one like it. It's wound around you tight as a cocoon. Been there a good long time. It's quite intricate; I don't think even I could untangle it."

"If you are trying to convince me George Cypher is not my father, you have failed. If you are trying to convince me you are mad, you needn't bother. That much I already know."

"My dear boy," Rahl laughed, "I couldn't care less who you believe your father to be. Nonetheless, there is a wizard's web hiding the truth from you."

"Really? I'll play along. Who's my father, if it's not George Cypher?"

"I wouldn't know." Rahl shrugged. "The web hides it. But from what I've seen, I have my suspicions." The smile left. "What does the Book of Counted Shadows say?"

Richard shrugged. "That's your question? You disappoint me."

"How so?"

"Well, after what was done to your bastard father, I thought sure you'd want to know the old wizard's name."

Darken Rahl glared as he slowly licked his fingertips. "What is the old wizard's name?"

It was Richard's turn to smile. He spread his arms wide. "Cut me open. It's written on my guts. You will have to find it there."

Richard kept the smirk on his face; he knew he was defenseless and was hoping Rahl would be driven to kill him. If he was dead, the book died with him. No box, no book. Rahl was going to die; Kahlan would be safe then. That was all that mattered.

"In one week, it will be the first day of winter, and I will know the name of the wizard, and have the power to snatch him from wherever he is, and bring his hide to me."

"In one week, you will be dead. You have only two boxes."

Darken Rahl licked his fingers again and smoothed them over his lips. "I have two right now, and the third is on its way here, as we speak."

Richard tried not to believe him, let his face show nothing. "A brave boast. But a lie, nonetheless. In one week, you are going to die."

Rahl raised his eyebrows. "I speak the truth. You have been betrayed. The same one who has betrayed you to me has also betrayed the box to me. It will be here in a few days."

"I don't believe you," Richard said flatly.

Darken Rahl licked his fingertips and turned, walking around the circle of white sand. "No? Let me show you something."
Richard followed him to a wedge of white stone upon which sat a flat slab of granite held up by two short fluted pedestals. In the center of the slab sat two of the boxes of Orden. One was ornately jeweled like the one Richard had seen before. The other was as black as the night stone, its surface a void in the light of the room: the box itself, its protective covering removed.

"Two of the boxes of Orden," Rahl announced, holding his hand out to them. "Why would I want the book? The book would be useless to me without the third box. You had the third box. The one who betrayed you told me so. If the box were not on its way, why would I need the book? I would instead cut you open to get the location of the box."

Richard shook with anger. "Who betrayed me and the box? Tell me the name."

"Or what? Or you will cut me open and read the name on my guts? I will not betray the name of one who has helped me. You are not the only one with honor."

Spoilers: the traitor is Michael.

There's a long conversation of magical dickwagging over who knows what and Richard proves he knows the book in-depth by opening the other of the two boxes' armor. (They all have armor, the "protective covering" above.)

quote:

Richard stared blankly at the jeweled box. "Page twelve of the Book of Counted Shadows. Under the heading Shedding the Covers, it says: The covering on the boxes may be removed by anyone with the knowledge, not only the one who has put them in play." Richard reached out and lifted the jeweled box off the granite. "Page seventeen, third paragraph down on the page. If not, however, in the hours of darkness, but in the hours of the sun, the covering may be removed from the second box in the following manner. Hold the box where the sun may touch it, and face north. If there be clouds, hold the box where the sun would touch it if they were not present, but face the west." Richard held the box up in the late-day sunlight. "Turn the box that the small end with the blue stone may face the quadrant with the sun. The yellow stone is to face up." Richard turned the box. "With the second finger of the right hand on the yellow stone in the center of the top, place the thumb of the right hand on the clear stone in the corner of the bottom." Richard grasped the box as directed. "Place the first finger of the left hand on the blue stone on the side facing away, the thumb of the left hand on the ruby stone of the side closest." Richard placed his fingers so. "Clear your mind of all thought, and in its place, put nothing but the image of white with a square of black in its center. Pull the two hands apart, taking the covering away with them."

As Rahl watched, Richard cleared his mind, pictured white with black in the center, and pulled. The cover made a clicking sound, and came apart. He held the box just over the granite and pulled the cover away as if he were putting an egg in a frying pan. Two equally black boxes sat side by side, seeming as if they would suck the light from the room.

"Remarkable," Rahl breathed. "And you know every part of the book this well?"

"Every word." Richard glared. "What I have told you will be of no aid in removing the third cover, however. They each come off differently."

Rahl gave a little wave of his hand. "No matter. I will get it off." He held an elbow in one hand and touched a finger of the other to his chin, absorbed in thought. "You are free to go."

Richard frowned. "What do you mean, I am free to go? Aren't you going to try to get the book out of me? Kill me?"

Rahl shrugged. "It would do me no good. The ways I have of getting information from you would damage your brain. The information would be disjointed. If it were anything else, I would be able to put the pieces together, and figure it out, but I can see the book is too specific for that. The information would only end up being spoiled, and of no use to me. You, therefore, are of no use to me right now, so you may go."

Richard was worried. There was something more to this. "Just like that? I may go? You must know I will try to stop you."

Rahl licked his fingers. His eyes came up. "I'm not worried about anything you could do. But you must be back here in one week, when I open the boxes, if you care at all what happens to everyone."

Richard narrowed his eyes. "What do you mean, if I care what happens to everyone?"

"In one week, on the first day of winter, I'm going to open one of the boxes. I have been able to learn, from sources other than the Book of Counted Shadows, the same sources that told me how I might remove the cover, how to tell which box it is that would kill me. Beyond that, I will have to guess. If I open the right one, I will rule unchallenged. If I open the other, the world will be destroyed."

"You would let that happen?"

Darken Rahl's eyebrows lifted as he leaned toward Richard. "One world, or no world. That is the way it shall be."

Two quads are sent to capture (and not kill) Kahlan, and a trap is laid for Zedd to take him out of the picture. Meanwhile, Rahl is superbly hospitable to Richard.

quote:

Richard was furious at what Darken Rahl was doing to Zedd, and he was furious that he couldn't move, that he was helpless and could only watch.

Richard relaxed his mind, shed the effort of trying to move, and replaced it with calm. He let his mind be empty, let himself be soft, limp. The force melted away. He took a step forward, free of the grip that had held him.

Rahl smiled warmly. "Very good, my boy. You know how to break a wizard's web, at least a little one. But very good nonetheless. The Old One chooses his Seekers well." He nodded. "But you are more than a Seeker. You have the gift. I look forward to the day we will be on the same side. I will enjoy having you around. The ones I have to deal with are very limited. After the world is joined, I will teach you more, if you wish."

"We will never be on the same side. Never."

"That is your choice, Richard. I bear no ill will toward you. I hope we will become friends." Rahl studied Richard's face. "There is one more thing. You may stay in the People's Palace, or you may leave if you wish. My guards will accommodate you. You will, however, have a wizard's web around you. Unlike the one you just broke, it will not affect you, but those who see you, and therefore you will not be able to break it. It's called an enemy web. All will see you as their enemy. That means that when your allies see you, they will see an enemy. Those who honor me will see you as yourself, since you are my enemy, for the time being, and therefore already their enemy. At least for now. But those who are your friends will see you as the person they fear most, their worst enemy. I would like you to see the way people think of me, see the world through my eyes, see how unjustly I am regarded."

Richard didn't have to try to hold back the anger; there was none. He felt an odd sort of peace. "Am I free to go now?"

"Of course, my boy."

"What about Mistress Denna?"

"Once you leave this room, you will be back under her power. She still controls the magic of your sword. Once a Mord-Sith has your magic, it is hers to keep. I cannot take it from her to give it back to you. You must get it back yourself."

"Then how am I free to leave?"

"Isn't it obvious? If you want to leave, you must kill her."

"Kill her!" Richard was stunned. "Don't you think if I could kill her, I would have done so by now? Do you think I would have endured what she has done to me if I could have killed her?"

Darken Rahl smiled a little smile. "You have always been able to kill her."

"How?"

"There is nothing that exists that has only one side. Even a piece of paper, thin as it is, has two sides. Magic is not one-dimensional either. You have been looking at only one side of it; most people do. Look at the whole." He pointed at the bodies of his two guards. The guards Richard had killed. "She controls your magic, yet you did this."

"But that's different, it won't work against her."

Rahl nodded. "Yes, it will. But you must be its master; half measures will get you in a lot of trouble. She controls you with one dimension of your magic, the side you offered her. You must use the other side. It is something all Seekers have been capable of, but none has ever succeeded in mastering. Perhaps you will be the first."

"And if I'm not? If I don't succeed at it?" Darken Rahl was sounding altogether too much like Zedd for Richard's comfort. This was the way Zedd had always taught him� by making him think for himself, find the answers in his own way, with his own mind.

"Then, my young friend, you are going to be in for a very rough week. Denna is not pleased at how you embarrassed her. At the end of the week, she will bring you to me, and you will tell me your decision; to help, or to let all your friends suffer and die."

On the way back to his rooms, Richard begins pondering his sword's magic, and it all clicks. Well. Sort of.

quote:

Nothing was one-dimensional. Two sides to the magic.

Richard thought about the times the strange power had come awake in him. When he had felt sorry for Princess Violet, when the Queen's guard had tried to harm Denna, when he had felt the pain of what had been done to Denna, when he thought of Rahl hurting Kahlan, when Rahl's guards had tried to hurt Denna. He remembered that each time it had made part of his vision turn white.

Each time, he knew, it was the magic of the sword. But in the past the magic of the sword had been rage, too. Yet this was a different kind of rage. He thought of how he used to feel when he drew the sword in anger. The wrath, the fury, the want to kill.

The hate.

Richard stopped dead still in the center of the quiet hall. It was late and there were no people around. He was alone. He felt a wave of cold wash through him, prickling his skin.

Two sides. He understood.

The spirits help him, he understood.

He brought it forth, let it cast everything in a white sheen.

Turning the Sword of Truth white means killing out of forgiveness. So yeah, when I made the crack earlier about how if he killed Zedd, it might have had the same effect? I suspect he'd have saved ten steps.

He probably wouldn't have kissed Zedd though.

quote:

Everything was white around the childlike beauty of her face. "I'm so sorry, Denna," he whispered.

"You will remember me?"

"I will have nightmares the rest of my life."

Her smile widened. "I'm glad." She seemed genuinely proud. "You love this woman, Kahlan?"

He frowned a little. "How do you know that?"

"Sometimes, when I hurt men enough, and they don't know what they're saying, they cry for their mothers, or their wives. You cried for one named Kahlan. You will choose her for your mate?"

"I cannot," he said past the lump in his throat. "She is a Confessor. Her power would destroy me."

"I'm sorry. This hurts you?"

He nodded slowly. "More than anything you have done to me."

"Good." Denna smiled sadly. "I'm glad the one you love is able to give you more pain than was I."

Richard knew that in her twisted way, Denna meant this as a comfort to him; that for her to be happy that he would get more pain from another was a giving of her love. He knew that Denna sometimes gave him pain to show that she cared for him. In her eyes, at least, if this other woman could give him more pain, that was a demonstration of love.

"It is a different kind of pain. None could be your equal in the things you have done."

A tear of pride rolled down her cheek. "Thank you, my love," she breathed. She took the Agiel from her neck and held it up hopefully. "Would you wear this, to remember me by? It will not hurt you around your neck, or if you hold the chain, only if you hold the Agiel itself in your hand."

Richard held her face in the white glow. "It would be my honor, my mate." He bent, letting her put it over his head, letting her give his cheek a kiss.

"How will you do it?" she asked.

He knew what she meant. He swallowed back the lump in his throat. His hand went smoothly to the hilt of the sword. Slowly, he drew the Sword of Truth. It didn't ring, the way it always had in the past.

It hissed. A white-hot hiss.

Richard didn't look, but he knew, knew the blade had turned white. He held her wet eyes. The power flooded through him. He was at peace. All anger, all hate, all malice, was gone. Where he had felt these things from the sword before, he now felt only love for this child, this vessel into whom others had poured pain, this receptacle of cruelty, this innocent, tortured soul, who had been trained to do the things she hated above all else: hurting others. His empathy with her made him ache with sorrow for her; with love for her.

"Denna," he whispered. "You could just let me go; there is no need to do this. Please. Let me go. Don't make me have to do this."

She held her chin up. "If you try to leave, I will stop you with the pain of the magic, and make you sorry you have been trouble to me. I am Mord-Sith. I am your mistress. I can be no more than who I am. You can be no less, my mate."

He nodded sadly, and put the tip of the sword between her breasts, the tears in his eyes and the white glow making it difficult to see.

Denna gently took the tip of the sword and moved it up a few inches. "My heart is here, my love."

Holding the sword against her, he bent and put his left arm tenderly around her soft shoulders. He held the power with all his strength as he kissed her cheek.

"Richard," she whispered, "I have never had a mate like you before. I'm glad I will have no other. You are a very rare person. You are the only person since I was chosen who has cared that I was in pain, or done anything to stop it. Thank you for last night, for teaching me what it could be like."

Tears dripped from his face. He held her close. "Forgive me, my love."

She smiled. "Everything. Thank you for calling me 'my love.' It is good to hear it once in truth before I die. Twist the sword, to be sure it is finished. And Richard, please, take my last breath? As I have taught you? I wish you to have my last breath of life."

In a daze, he put his mouth over hers, kissing her, and didn't even feel his right hand moving. There was no resistance. The sword went through her as if she were gossamer. He felt his hand twist the sword, and he took her last breath of life.

He laid her gently back on the bed, lay down next to her, and wept uncontrollably as he stroked her ashen face.

He grieved to undo what he had done.

On his way out of the palace, he straight up murders Constance with Denna's pain-dildo the same way Denna killed the queen - Agiel over the heart, give a quick twist. I only quote it because he's beginning to make a loving catchphrase out of brutalizing women:

quote:

Constance gasped with the agony. "Please�"

"Promise made�" he sneered.

"No� please� don't."

Richard twisted the Agiel as he had seen Denna do to the Queen. Constance flinched, and went limp in his grip. Blood ran from her ears. He let her lifeless body slip to the ground.

"Promise kept."

I'm pretty sure he never uses this super-convenient trick again in the entire series. I would call this the end of Denna, but nope. NOPE. You ain't seen poo poo yet. Just... no more in this book. (fun fact: only 5 more posts to go! I just finished the last one.)

# ? Nov 25, 2014 11:55

Perestroika: Apr 8, 2010

I love the consistency here. Killing a woman who has happily torture-raped countless people throughout her adult life is the most painful thing ever for poor old Dick and he's constantly feeling sorry for her and lamenting the circumstances that lead her there, and he only does it because there's no other choice. But a literal child who's kind of a brat given too much power? Nah, kick her in the head until her jaw explodes for shits and giggles, with nothing more than a "He kinda felt sorry about that, I guess", and even that seems to be motivated by the sword rather than Dick himself.

What a hero :allears:

# ? Nov 25, 2014 12:48

Hugoon Chavez: Nov 4, 2011; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Then again if he gave a poo poo about the kid it'd mean he hosed her, which is a lot worse.

What's objectivism views on pedophilia? (a sentence I regret as soon as I post this).

# ? Nov 25, 2014 13:11

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 207 days!

The most frustrating thing about Goodkind is when he gets so close to writing a solid, empathetic character and just can't manage to make them a believable human being.

Also, as promised, Richard kills her with his sword, which is his love. Goodkind has one hell of a messed up virgin/whore thing going on with women.

Like that with him telling off Constance out of loyalty to Denna is, on its own, some awesome Cool Hand Luke poo poo. He knows he's going to have hell to pay, but it's worth it to him to give an rear end in a top hat the middle finger.

Then you realize that he felt just as smug and self-satisfied about nearly killing a little girl and you realize he's not a badass, he's a loving psychopath.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 13:14

claw game handjob: Mar 27, 2007; pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

Hodgepodge posted:

Also, as promised, Richard kills her with his sword, which is his love. Goodkind has one hell of a messed up virgin/whore thing going on with women.

Denna is the only person in this book he kills with the blade white. He has a huge bodycount by the end, but only the dominatrix who broke him gets the mercy-kill.

Keep this in mind.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 13:17

Bieeanshee: Aug 21, 2000; Not keen on keening.; Grimey Drawer

Hodgepodge posted:

Also, as promised, Richard kills her with his sword, which is his love. Goodkind has one hell of a messed up virgin/whore thing going on with women.

I keep thinking that there's some weird, psychosexual thing on a authorial level with Confessor hair. It's so inconsequential and so utterly specific.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 13:29

Zodiac5000: Jun 19, 2006; Protects the Pack!; Doctor Rope

You know, I read all of the books in this series through some idiotic completionist need and I would have bet large amounts of money that the Mord-Sith-through conclusion section was 1/3rd of the book. God drat, terry, what did you do to little kid me's brain.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 16:29

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 207 days!

Bieeardo posted:

I keep thinking that there's some weird, psychosexual thing on a authorial level with Confessor hair. It's so inconsequential and so utterly specific.

I think it's just a fetishization of long hair as a symbol of femininity. Cutting it is always a denial if the woman's essential nature- that's why so much focus is put on Princess Violet cutting Rachel's hair as a means of denigrating her as ugly and worthless. Violet is specifically attacking Rachel's essential femininity. Supposedly this also has a class component in the Midlands as well.

There's some basis for this in psychology; shaving someone bald is a classic method of attacking a person's identity in order to initiate them into a new community (often used on recruits by militaries or cults) or just to dehumanize them.

In this case, though, long hair is specifically a symbol of feminine identity. If I remember correctly, Richard refuses to cut Kahlan's hair because that would endorse her shame and denial of her identity. Which is absolutely the right decision, he just manages to turn a gesture of love and support for Kahlan as she is into a contemptuous refusal to respect her feelings.

Because A=A you see, and trying to be other than what you are is worthy of only contempt.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 16:32

Bieeanshee: Aug 21, 2000; Not keen on keening.; Grimey Drawer

...and which could explain Richard's fixation on Denna's braid. Good point!

# ? Nov 25, 2014 16:49

TheSmilingJackal: Apr 30, 2007; Don't worry, it's a very heavy feather.

AdjectiveNoun posted:

It doesn't seem that stupid by WFL standards - he's rules-lawyering around her desire to make him a sex-slave by focusing on a part of her that's not sexual, while still technically obeying her command. Passive-aggressive petty rebellion seems totally in character for Dick Cypher.

I agree that it is in character, the stupid bit is that knowing if Dick is think of trees or her is the extent of her telepathy. You know what's easier and faster than torturing information out of someone? Reading their mind.

Bieeardo posted:

I keep thinking that there's some weird, psychosexual thing on a authorial level with Confessor hair. It's so inconsequential and so utterly specific.

I don't remember if OP mentioned it or not, but the reason Confessors cannot cut their hair is because long hair is the mark of status for a woman in every society even the Old World, I think that is not Westlander. This does not apply to men because something something biotruths something communism.

e:fb.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 17:00

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Dick does really love committing brutal acts against women. You can just feel Goodkind saying to himself 'And that's for not going to prom with me, JENNY' in those scenes.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 17:03

TheCenturion: May 3, 2013; HI I LIKE TO GIVE ADVICE ON RELATIONSHIPS

TheSmilingJackal posted:

I agree that it is in character, the stupid bit is that knowing if Dick is think of trees or her is the extent of her telepathy. You know what's easier and faster than torturing information out of someone? Reading their mind.

I don't remember if OP mentioned it or not, but the reason Confessors cannot cut their hair is because long hair is the mark of status for a woman in every society even the Old World, I think that is not Westlander. This does not apply to men because something something biotruths something communism.

e:fb.

Zedd raised the barriers, and while he's old, he's not ever described as having any sort of extended lifespan.

Therefore, Westland was part of the rest of the lands within living memory. Yet so many customs and what not in the Midlands are utterly alien to Westlanders. This makes no sense.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 17:53

Esser-Z: Jun 3, 2012

TheCenturion posted:

Zedd raised the barriers, and while he's old, he's not ever described as having any sort of extended lifespan.

Therefore, Westland was part of the rest of the lands within living memory. Yet so many customs and what not in the Midlands are utterly alien to Westlanders. This makes no sense.

Clearly a wizard hosed with their minds. Because wizards.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 17:57

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 09:56

Munkeymon: Aug 14, 2003; Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.

Hodgepodge posted:

Then you realize that he felt just as smug and self-satisfied about nearly killing a little girl and you realize he's not a badass, he's a loving psychopath.

So was the girl. Kinda sorta evens out.

# ? Nov 25, 2014 18:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Let's Read the Sword of Truth books! (Or not. Can we not?)

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