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Moddington posted:Oh no, someone called Kazerad "horrible" on the internet. Now he'll have to flee his home for fear of his life. GamerGaters really are oppressed by the feminazi masses. Still looks like a lot of people shouting. If the only exposure I get to the whole thing is people yelling poo poo at each other, I haven't got much reason to care. And, in fact, I don't. Oxyclean posted:Oh hey, a bunch of new posts, maybe Prequel updated. No, nothing new on the site, maybe people are just talking about the comic? Or maybe a funny derail. Yeah, fair enough. It just annoys me to see Kaz getting kicked around for poo poo unrelated to the comic in a thread about the comic. I know, I know...don't feed the trolls. 
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Nov 25, 2014 17:05
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jng2058 posted:Yeah, fair enough. It just annoys me to see Kaz getting kicked around for poo poo unrelated to the comic in a thread about the comic. I know, I know...don't feed the trolls. It was more directed at Afraid of Audio and the people giving a poo poo about whatever Kazerad posted on his tumblr/thinks about GG. Your previous post is not unlike some of my feelings about the situation.
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Nov 25, 2014 17:11
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How dare he write an opinion, about gamergate
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Nov 25, 2014 17:16
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ANIME MONSTROSITY posted:How dare he write an opinion, about gamergate Don't we have a thread for that garbage? Like this is a thread about a comic, so yeah, making derails about some dumb internet controversy or something the author posted elsewhere is kind of stupid?
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Nov 25, 2014 17:20
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the only thing worse than gamergate is this thread okay not really this thread would have to be like, full of gore porn spam to be as bad as gamergate but seriously this thread should just be closed
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Nov 25, 2014 17:20
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actually kazerad please share your favorite gore porn fanart submissions with the thread
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Nov 25, 2014 17:21
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The thread was made back when Prequel updated a lot more frequently and there was more to talk about. (To the point it was derailing the Homestuck thread, in fact, which was the direct impetus for me starting it.) At its current level of activity, I wouldn't have bothered to start a new thread, but a thread we presently have; you'd have to get in touch with Waterhaul to ask about closing it, since I don't have that authority.
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Nov 25, 2014 17:26
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It's not that people don't have authority to close threads it's that it's dumb to close threads and stop conversation over a whole two pages of posts made in the last month. The thread will move on and get another handful of posts in a month or so when the comic updates or Kazerad says something dumb.
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Nov 25, 2014 17:44
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When I first came into the thread I didn't read back that far, or indeed at all, because I had a horrible sinking feeling that nothing good lay that way. Lesson learned I guess. Edit: a thread with that little activity would probably do better being part of the main webcomic thread though, so it can attract new readers more easily. Doctor_Fruitbat fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Nov 25, 2014 |
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Nov 25, 2014 17:58
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:How about not doing that either. If Prequel and its creator are such monsters then take it to the bad webcomic thread and gripe about it there. Shitposts of insults and opinions presented as though they're indisputable fact aren't really needed and they really don't need endlessly repeating when most people have decided they don't agree and/or care and just want to enjoy their dumb comic in peace. I'm not sure I can trust your opinions re: this thread
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Nov 25, 2014 18:00
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Why you wanna making cats cry, goddamned savagess
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Nov 25, 2014 18:21
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jng2058 posted:So, your response to people hurling abuse at other people is....to hurl abuse at even more people? Fascinating. Mr Pot, have you met Mr. Kettle? Because as someone who hasn't really delved into the whole GamerGate thing, you're not really selling me on the righteousness of your cause here. I'm not sure what part of Afraid of Audio's post was "hurling abuse at even more people"? Other than calling Kazerad's opinions abhorrent, which is not an abusive statement, the rest of the post is an effort to divine the elements of Prequel that interact with Kazerad's stated position on #GruntingGrub, a movement characterized by its misogyny and bigotry. Given that Prequel stars a female character and the hurt/comfort fanfiction nature of the work, Kazerad's willingness to ignore or whitewash the misogyny of the #GamerGate group casts those questionable elements of Prequel and his defense of those elements in a different light. If presenting criticism of a work in light of its author's expressed public views is "abuse", then I guess I shouldn't criticize Orson Scott Card's Empire as being pure polemic against political ideologies he disagrees with, or express my contempt for the anti-Islamic bigotry present in Holy Terror while also mentioning the political views of Frank Miller. Death of the Author is a useful tool, not a rule for criticism.
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Nov 25, 2014 19:57
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Wales Grey posted:I'm not sure what part of Afraid of Audio's post was "hurling abuse at even more people"? Other than calling Kazerad's opinions abhorrent, which is not an abusive statement, the rest of the post is an effort to divine the elements of Prequel that interact with Kazerad's stated position on #GruntingGrub, a movement characterized by its misogyny and bigotry. Given that Prequel stars a female character and the hurt/comfort fanfiction nature of the work, Kazerad's willingness to ignore or whitewash the misogyny of the #GamerGate group casts those questionable elements of Prequel and his defense of those elements in a different light. If presenting criticism of a work in light of its author's expressed public views is "abuse", then I guess I shouldn't criticize Orson Scott Card's Empire as being pure polemic against political ideologies he disagrees with, or express my contempt for the anti-Islamic bigotry present in Holy Terror while also mentioning the political views of Frank Miller. Death of the Author is a useful tool, not a rule for criticism. No, it's stupid bullshit and it shouldn't be in this thread. And it's especially bullshit to keep bringing up GamerGate and then try to say you don't want to talk about GamerGate.
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Nov 25, 2014 20:00
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Who What Now posted:No, it's stupid bullshit and it shouldn't be in this thread. And it's especially bullshit to keep bringing up GamerGate and then try to say you don't want to talk about GamerGate. It's true Kazerad should stop making blog posts about it.
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Nov 25, 2014 20:02
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Afraid of Audio posted:It's true Kazerad should stop making blog posts about it. 
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Nov 25, 2014 20:20
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Who What Now posted:No, it's stupid bullshit and it shouldn't be in this thread. And it's especially bullshit to keep bringing up GamerGate and then try to say you don't want to talk about GamerGate. I was looking for Kazerad to do this in the thread when I stumbled across this gem which noone mentioned: Kazerad posted:Sorry, I'll go do that. I think I am shitposting in a thread about my own comic. I'll just leave it at emphasizing that I'll withdraw any GG endorsement as soon as something comes along that can more effectively antagonize journalists. Translation: "I'm not withdrawing my support from a group that has sent death threats to female independent game developers until something else comes along that lets me antagonize games journalists more than misogynists taking advantage of an ex-boyfriend falsely accusing a female independent game developer of having sex with games journalists to get better reviews, for the purpose of waging culture war against the diversification in the gender of developers and increased criticism of video games from a feminist perspective." Tumbling homestuck avatar person, explain to me how the views of an author who sees nothing wrong in associating with and endorsing a group dedicated to the abuse and harassment of women is meaningless in a thread about that person writing a webcomic dedicated to a "character study" of a female character are not germane to discussion of said webcomic, without invoking special pleading for your argument. To put it another way: why should a discussion of Holy Terror forbid discussing the anti-Islamic bigotry and anti-Arabic racism that permeates that work and how those themes stem from the political views of its author, Frank Miller? Wales Grey fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Nov 25, 2014 |
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Nov 25, 2014 20:25
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Wales Grey posted:To put it another way: why should a discussion of Holy Terror forbid discussing the anti-Islamic bigotry and anti-Arabic racism that permeates that work and how those themes stem from the political views of its author, Frank Miller? gently caress you he just wants to jack his dick to the catgirl in peace okay bro
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Nov 25, 2014 20:38
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Wales Grey posted:To put it another way: why should a discussion of Holy Terror forbid discussing the anti-Islamic bigotry and anti-Arabic racism that permeates that work and how those themes stem from the political views of its author, Frank Miller? Copying and pasting an author's blog post that has nothing to do with the comic itself is lovely and worthless, regardless of the topic of the post. Actually analyzing the author's attitudes and trying to explain how you think that influences the work would be interesting and good. (And in the case of Gamergate and Prequel, I and others would then disagree, and we might have an actual substantive discussion about things, imagine that.) None of this can happen if the sum total of the post about it is "look at this, he is a bad, hurrr".
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Nov 25, 2014 20:40
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idonotlikepeas posted:Copying and pasting an author's blog post that has nothing to do with the comic itself is lovely and worthless, regardless of the topic of the post.  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 25, 2014 20:53
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idonotlikepeas posted:Actually analyzing the author's attitudes and trying to explain how you think that influences the work would be interesting and good. (And in the case of Gamergate and Prequel, I and others would then disagree, and we might have an actual substantive discussion about things, imagine that.) None of this can happen if the sum total of the post about it is "look at this, he is a bad, hurrr". My experiences with rhetoric indicate that no matter how substantive, insightful, or meaningful an argument is, it always comes down to "look at this, he is a bad, hurrr". It's just usually expressed in a more polite fashion. I am fully aware that Audio is substituting "he is a bad, hurrr" for a deeper analysis, but webcomics are not exactly a medium that promotes deep or meaningful analysis. It'd take me a couple hours to throw together a thesis and crudely argue it, and I'm pretty sure noone wants to read four pages of one person writing about how a hurt/comfort Oblivion fanfiction webcomic about a female Khajiit, done in a MSPAA audience voting method with an audience that openly admits they want to make the lead character suffer, has issues with misogyny and how the author's views on a contemporary feminist issue may blind him to some of the problematic elements of that webcomic. Plus I'm absolutely sure I don't have the time or drive to write such a waste of electrons, so I'll settle for "he is a bad, hurrr" as an effective shorthand.
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Nov 25, 2014 21:00
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Wales Grey posted:an audience that openly admits they want to make the lead character suffer I don't think that's been true for a while, though. The title of the thread certainly promotes that viewpoint, but the trend to me has definitely shifted to the audience trying to help a person who's down in the dumps get their life back on track, as opposed to the earlier "Let's watch a person dig themself into a deeper and deeper rut". It's actually been pretty positive, if anything, though it certainly still has a ways to go.
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Nov 25, 2014 21:15
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remember when openly posting your retarded furry comic designed to cater to people with depression and abandonment issues would have been cause for banning or mockery instead of making you money what im saying is kazerad for admin
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Nov 25, 2014 21:17
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I don't think that's been true for a while, though. The title of the thread certainly promotes that viewpoint, but the trend to me has definitely shifted to the audience trying to help a person who's down in the dumps get their life back on track, as opposed to the earlier "Let's watch a person dig themself into a deeper and deeper rut". It's actually been pretty positive, if anything, though it certainly still has a ways to go. Yes, the "hurt" part of "hurt/comfort" is now over, so the audience is now cooing over their precious and now want to make her all better now.
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Nov 25, 2014 21:18
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Wales Grey posted:Yes, the "hurt" part of "hurt/comfort" is now over, so the audience is now cooing over their precious and now want to make her all better now.  I guess? it's just a comic, I don't think about it too deeply.corn in the bible posted:remember when openly posting your retarded furry comic designed to cater to people with depression and abandonment issues would have been cause for banning or mockery instead of making you money I think if anything it's actually losing him money, which makes him a perfect fit.
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Nov 25, 2014 21:20
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Wales Grey posted:Translation: "I'm not withdrawing my support from a group that has sent death threats to female independent game developers until something else comes along that lets me antagonize games journalists more than misogynists taking advantage of an ex-boyfriend falsely accusing a female independent game developer of having sex with games journalists to get better reviews, for the purpose of waging culture war against the diversification in the gender of developers and increased criticism of video games from a feminist perspective." Or you could just take it as exactly what I wrote  My rule for things like this is that I judge a group by my personal experiences with them, or first-hand experiences shared by people I know. From my interactions with them, GG has been doing more to discourage harassment/bullying, improve minority representation, and stand against hostile/benevolent sexism than nearly any other group I've seen. While my personal experiences might differ from yours, they are still mine, and I would feel like I was doing a disservice to people trying to analyze a situation if I promoted yours instead. And again, the extent of what I'm doing is writing my thoughts and experiences. I'm not some major player pushing for change, and I don't even support Thunderclaps or post under NotYourShield or anything like that which could contribute a more numerical impact. Any time I make a post that touches on trans or feminist issues, it has a gauntlet of proofreaders it has to survive, because I do recognize that there are things outside my experiences on which I do not want to inadvertently speak over people. I don't really want to argue this since I'm not terribly experienced with formal argument; I mean, I'm a just a writer. If you feel that I am making an ethical mis-step in the way I am handling this situation, though, I really would like you to explain it to me. Even if I am too busy to reply, I promise you that I am reading what you write. I assure you I am trying to do the right thing, though a part of that is that I cannot value your experiences over my own, or over those of people I know who are more directly affected by this.
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Nov 25, 2014 23:19
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Wales Grey posted:My experiences with rhetoric indicate that no matter how substantive, insightful, or meaningful an argument is, it always comes down to "look at this, he is a bad, hurrr". It's just usually expressed in a more polite fashion. I am fully aware that Audio is substituting "he is a bad, hurrr" for a deeper analysis, but webcomics are not exactly a medium that promotes deep or meaningful analysis. Basically every part of this is wrong. There is nothing intrinsic to webcomics that prevents or even discourages analysis; if anything, direct access to the author (which is relatively normal in the world of webcomics) offers an opportunity to examine the workings of the creative process in a very in-depth way, and the mechanics of posting a story in this heavily serialized way (and the various strategies people adopt to deal with it) are an absolutely fascinating area of study. The point of the argument is never "he is bad"; that's a given based on the way the argument is formed. The point is to convince other people that he is bad. Just posting "he is bad" is not going to do that. You are some random jerk on the Internet. So am I. Why should we listen to each other? The only possible reason is that you have said something interesting that the other person wants to read, even if only so they can disagree with it. This is why we have rules against white noise posts on Something Awful, because nobody in the world gives two shits about what you think is bad unless you can explain WHY. The only possible effects of going to a thread and posting that are negative ones. So why bother doing it? Why just add one more shrieking monkey howl to the background noise when you could be doing something useful or fun instead, like eating six pounds of bacon and jerking off? That is not to say you need to spend hours putting together a loving dissertation on Mannigan, Katia and the Corrosive Effects of Misogynistic Social Rhetoric on Videogame-Cat-Related Storytelling. Just maybe explain why you think something is bad? Or maybe post about the actual thing instead of something unrelated? You know, wacky stuff like that.
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Nov 26, 2014 00:05
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This thread isn't about Kazerad, and it's definitely not about GamerGate, it's about Prequel. If you want to bitch and moan about his blog so badly, we have the GBS "bad webcomics" thread. I guess that's why they call it "making GBS threads"-- wait, what's that? The GBS thread got gassed last month? Well no wonder. Deeply sorry you were too terrible for the most terrible subforum on the website, but I doubt you'll have much luck relocating here. corn in the bible posted:remember when openly posting your retarded furry comic designed to cater to people with depression and abandonment issues would have been cause for banning or mockery instead of making you money Remember when openly posting your gay porn comic designed to cater to people with Nazi fetishes and centaur fixations would have been cause for banning or mockery? Those were better days.
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Nov 26, 2014 03:02
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Oh gently caress you all, I thought there's been some huge amazing update or a cliffhanger or something.  Any hope we'll see Katia confront Sigrid by this time next year?
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Nov 26, 2014 06:00
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Zoe posted:Oh gently caress you all, I thought there's been some huge amazing update or a cliffhanger or something. That's obviously gonna be next update, where there'll be a plot twist so massive we'll all get whiplash from spinning in our chairs in shock.
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Nov 26, 2014 06:42
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Zoe posted:Any hope we'll see Katia confront Sigrid by this time next year?
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Nov 26, 2014 07:21
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SatansBestBuddy posted:That's obviously gonna be next update, where there'll be a plot twist so massive we'll all get whiplash from spinning in our chairs in shock. Plot twist: The comic updated.
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Nov 26, 2014 08:11
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Squeegy posted:Plot twist: The comic updated. Nice try!
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Nov 26, 2014 09:32
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Grapplejack posted:Nice try! No I meant that'd be the massive plot twist that would give us whiplash from spinning in our chairs in shock.
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Nov 26, 2014 11:02
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Zoe posted:
... Maybe?
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Nov 26, 2014 15:49
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Whenever it happens, it just won't be complete without Katia using her night vision at the wrong time and searing her retinas like tuna steaks.
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Nov 26, 2014 16:15
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I think if anything it's actually losing him money, which makes him a perfect fit. perfect. at least make him mod of an appropriate forum, like fyad or byob or e/n
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Nov 26, 2014 17:04
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corn in the bible posted:or e/n
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Nov 26, 2014 17:34
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I'm trying to come up with something witty. Something that's clever and mentions that there's an update. Ah well, someone else can handle it.
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Nov 27, 2014 05:59
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Whoa twice in the same month? Guys, poo poo up the thread some more, your smeared feces seems to work as some sort of amazing motivational tool! That was the saddest tail-wag ever though.
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Nov 27, 2014 06:48
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Zoe posted:Whoa twice in the same month? Yeah weirdly enough when the thread gets heated kaz actually updates
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Nov 27, 2014 09:45
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