Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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Bathtub Cheese: Jun 15, 2008; I lust for Chinese world conquest. The truth does not matter before the supremacy of Dear Leader Xi.

See here's the thing: no one said you had to stop playing Doom because Carmack has bad opinions.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 11:21

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# ? May 14, 2024 09:27

Douk Douk: Mar 17, 2009; Take your pervert war elsewhere.

Now that I have read Carmack's abhorrent opinions I can no longer blissfully partake in playing a whimsical game of Doom for every essence of that once-innocent machination is now tainted and with every Imp growl and barrel explosion I only hear the twisted ravings of a wickedly vile man oh just grow up you guys.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 11:27

Catalyst-proof: May 11, 2011; better waste some time with you

you're all kind of weird if you can't interact with anything that isn't 100% ideologically pure (nothing)

# ? Nov 27, 2014 11:40

Guillermus: Dec 28, 2009

This thread actually looks like Goat Simulator when people stop talking about source ports, mods or sectors.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 12:11

An Actual Princess: Dec 23, 2006

Literally no one said they were going to stop playing Doom over it, though? :confused:

# ? Nov 27, 2014 12:29

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Jia posted:

Literally no one said they were going to stop playing Doom over it, though?

Yeah, aside from sarcasm, which a lot of you are missing.

AAAAANYWAY, uhhh... Hey, was that AvP game for the Jaguar ever any good? I remember that being previewed in Gamepro and EGM, and holy poo poo, did that look like (at the time) the be-all end-all of first person shooters. You can play 3 different ways? Why would you ever be the marine, for hard mode?

I almost bought a Jaguar, which would have been an expensive mistake.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 12:44

kirbysuperstar: Nov 11, 2012; Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

Aside from Tempest 2000 and Rayman it was probably the best game for the Jaguar. Make of that what you will.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 15:09

lizardhunt: Feb 7, 2010; agreed ->

90 new posts! Did a new awesome wad come out?

Oh. :gonk:

# ? Nov 27, 2014 15:11

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Segmentation Fault posted:

Do you even remember reading Carmack saying that he hates women, or did you just read someone saying that Carmack said that? Because I'm really getting the feeling that the claim you're making is based on second-hand information at best, and the evidence you can provide essentially sums up to be "well he's a cishet white guy soooo"

I'm not saying you can't hate Carmack because he rolled pretty well at character creation, I'm just saying that if you're going to make a claim like "Carmack hates women" I'm going to want to see some proof of this, especially considering Carmack's poor empathy skills possibly making people conflate his curtness with disrespect.

No, I remember reading it personally. I wouldn't have said it otherwise. And it's fine if you disagree! I just thought it was worth bringing up if someone else remembered what I am doing a bad job of remembering.

Colon Semicolon posted:

There's a certain thing that should be said about those who work in industries where creativity is the major driving factor. Most of the time, these people don't ever bring up their political, religious, or otherwise debatable views in the works they create. They rarely want to do anything other than create to amuse and showcase. Doug Tennapel gets a ton of poo poo for his beliefs, but they literally have never shown up in any of his work, and he's done nothing to inspire ill feelings towards his actual work if you can see the two things as seperate. You can hate The artist without hating the art, and sometimes vice versa.

note: writers kinda don't count in this usually. writing gets extremely personal, especially for books.

This should go right to gamers.txt and rot there.

quote:

You're literally saying things with the intention of starting poo poo without any real evidence to back it up besides some stuff he may have said or done a good while ago. You're assuming anyone gives a poo poo, yet nobody cares about it or the tumblr-itis mental disease.

No I'm not. I was speaking honestly about my viewpoint and what I understand about a prominent figure in this thread. And you're right, I did assume people cared about women and other marginalized groups. There's no such thing as tumblr-itis.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 15:20

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Arivia posted:

And you're right, I did assume people cared about women and other marginalized groups.

There's a BIG difference between caring about these issues, and caring about whether or not someone else, who you'll never meet or who will never have any real impact on your day-to-day life and well-being, cares about those issues.

Guess which side this whole mess belongs in? :allears:

# ? Nov 27, 2014 15:29

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

jerkstoresup posted:

90 new posts! Did a new awesome wad come out?

Yes!

Go play BAUHAUS and Mayan Mishap and Fifty Shades of Graytall

# ? Nov 27, 2014 16:31

Zedsdeadbaby: Jun 14, 2008; You have been called out, in the ways of old.

John Carmack is a misogynist shitlord and I really love Brutal Doom.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 16:38

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

But what does John Carmack think about water rights for native peoples?

# ? Nov 27, 2014 17:00

Cerepol: Dec 2, 2011

John Carmack is a white cisscum and I will never play doom again!

_{this is what we doing now right?}

# ? Nov 27, 2014 17:15

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

I tried playing Operation Body Count again after closeted republican mentioned it earlier. Emphasis on tried - it's a very bad game that makes you trudge through 5+ levels of sewers as an explosive kickoff. I knew this, but I needed a reminder.

As a bonus, the game defaults to skill setting three, meaning you will invariably get eaten by rats (possibly through a wall) in the first room of the first level. Great! Great. When's it getting added to ECWolf?

Now closeted republican has to play Nitemare 3-D. :kheldragar:

# ? Nov 27, 2014 17:16

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

The Kins posted:

Now closeted republican has to play Nitemare 3-D.

Please do this, CR, record it and post it to youtube.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 17:33

Stunt_enby: Feb 6, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Cerepol posted:

John Carmack is a white cisscum and I will never play doom again!

_{this is what we doing now right?}

It's more people bitching at people who they think are going to stop playing Doom because Carmack is misogynist despite them never saying that.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 18:43

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

# ? Nov 27, 2014 18:55

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

Linguica posted:

Here's the story behind this pic, for those curious:

SmugMug CEO Don MacAskill posted:

I found the long-lost, mythical DoomEd software from id Software this weekend! If you're an old-school DOOM geek and/or programmer, like me, this is pretty epic. As far as I know, it's never been released (as an executable or source code), there are almost no screenshots on the entire Internet, and I don't think I'd ever gotten to use it until last weekend. Here's the quick story:

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, John Carmack was kind enough to give me id's old NeXT computers. I've been lugging them around the country ever since, knowing there might be priceless artifacts hidden on them, but mostly too busy to really do much until recently.

I've been slowly playing with them this year, making sure they turn on, archiving the hard disks, and poking at them. But it's been slow going. As a birthday present for my awesome wife, Liz, I spent some time this weekend trying to finish the project, once and for all, so I could clean out her garage.

I've long wanted to auction them off to good homes for a charity like Child's Play, since there are probably far better homes for them than mine, but didn't want to do so until I both archived the data and cleaned them off. (John made me promise I'd clean them off if I ever passed them along).

The first few machines yielded fun but mostly un-interesting data. I thought the odds of finding something truly great were low, anyway, since id and John have always done such a great job of open-sourcing their stuff.

There was the old IRC network I used to co-run with Christian Antkow, and I found Barrett Alexander's login on one of them, but mostly not much interesting to anyone outside that social circle.

Then I turned on this NeXTStation Color Turbo, which looks like it was probably Shawn Green's, and there it was: DoomEd! And it ran! And played demon growling noises at me when I lauched it! (Freaked me out the first time!)

And it had source code!! (Note to self: Does the ProjectBuilder tree still build in Xcode? I think we'd better find out!)

There's something else on there called TileEd that I'd never even heard of, too, including full source. If any other DOOM geeks know what that is, I'm all ears. As far as I know / can tell, it's never been released either.

So there you have it. The long-lost DoomEd has been found & still runs and I'm pretty stoked.

Finally, I know this will break a few hearts, but I can't release the binary or source publicly. It's not mine, after all.

Happy to share with the actual owners if they'd like to do something with it, and I'm also happy to try things, answer questions, post videos / screenshots, etc.

I started to build a map, but I'm flying blind and it's been 20 years since I've built sectors, so... I wouldn't hold your breath.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 19:04

Mill Village: Jul 27, 2007

Cat Mattress posted:

Yes!

Go play BAUHAUS and Mayan Mishap and Fifty Shades of Graytall

Do you have an alternative link for Bauhaus by chance? I'm not downloading a downloader just to download a Doom wad.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 19:10

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

The Kins posted:

Here's the story behind this pic, for those curious:

The source code for DoomEd was actually part of the Doom source code release, but Bernd Kreimeier removed them. :saddowns:

quote:

f) DoomEd
The NeXTStep DoomEd sources in the dump were
garbled (filenames - prolly an issue of ISO9660
with or w/o extensions). Somehow Bear never got
around to send me a list of the correct filenames,
and I won't bother guessing without a NeXT box
at hand.

There is a plethora of useful editors
for DOOM. I suggest using DEU for X11.

TileEd is the editor they used for their tile-based games, like Commander Keen and Wolf 3D.

Mill Village posted:

Do you have an alternative link for Bauhaus by chance? I'm not downloading a downloader just to download a Doom wad.

I haven't needed to download a downloader, though? Only needed to allow Javascript for the site. (Not even allowing cookies.)

# ? Nov 27, 2014 19:17

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

Cat Mattress posted:

TileEd is the editor they used for their tile-based games, like Commander Keen and Wolf 3D.

Apparently not. Don asked Romero about it on Twitter. Keen and Wolf used a buggy-rear end DOS program called TED, and he doesn't know what TileEd was. Maybe an unfinished rewrite of TED for NeXTSTEP?

# ? Nov 27, 2014 19:20

Convex: Aug 19, 2010

Wow those are some awful mugshots.

Wonder who actually owns the source for this and whether there's any way it'll released. Also whether there are any unreleased maps hidden away somewhere...

# ? Nov 27, 2014 19:33

SolidSnakesBandana: Jul 1, 2007; Infinite ammo

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Yeah, aside from sarcasm, which a lot of you are missing.

AAAAANYWAY, uhhh... Hey, was that AvP game for the Jaguar ever any good? I remember that being previewed in Gamepro and EGM, and holy poo poo, did that look like (at the time) the be-all end-all of first person shooters. You can play 3 different ways? Why would you ever be the marine, for hard mode?

I almost bought a Jaguar, which would have been an expensive mistake.

It was cool. As an alien you had to lay eggs perodically as "save points" in case you died.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 19:58

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

Hello early FPS thread, I took the challenge to play Nitemare 3-D after learning of problematic Arab stereortypes in a game I previously championed, Operation Bodycount. However, instead of just going through level 1 and calling it quits, I got through as much of level 2 as I could before the game became too much for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLwpvZlPyXA

I was concerned with the game's diversity. The main character, the antagonist, and most of the enemies are white. Frankenstein's Monster is is a grey color, though I am not sure if it is meant as a slight against PoCs or not. The skeleton character looked male as well, which is upsetting. Where are the women skeletons at?

Another problematic issue is that the plot is based on the player saving their girlfriend from a mad scientist. However, a woman enemy is probably the strongest out of all the foes I faced in the and does not wear a revealing outfit, so I feel that it cancels out.

Generally though, I'd say that the same is good for those looking for safe, non-problematic FPS games. When playing, I did not find any triggering racism nor sexism, which means the game should be safe for anyone to enjoy. I have not found any troubling statements about women and PoC from the creator as well, which made all of iD's games unplayable for me. I hope that the modding tools and source code are released so that we can all enjoy modding a great game that has very little offensive content and keep shitlords away from a safe space.

Misogyny:

of out 5 John Carmacks

Racism:

out of five Sergeant_Mark_IVs

Overall:

out of 5 Arivias

(This game is a huge piece of poo poo. DO NOT PLAY THIS.)

# ? Nov 27, 2014 21:52

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

I played that game so much as a kid, and I still forget how absolutely terrible it is.

Obviously, the source code needs to be released so we can have Brutal Nitemare 3D. Tell Frankenstein to go gently caress himself! Mouselook up or down to the void that is the ceiling/floor! Make skeletons bleed!

Or maybe... the game is brutal enough? :smug:

# ? Nov 27, 2014 22:00

ytisomauq: Dec 15, 2000

closeted republican posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLwpvZlPyXA

(This game is a huge piece of poo poo. DO NOT PLAY THIS.)

The flickering candles on the walls were kind of neat, and the curtains opening was interesting too...

# ? Nov 27, 2014 22:03

Bathtub Cheese: Jun 15, 2008; I lust for Chinese world conquest. The truth does not matter before the supremacy of Dear Leader Xi.

closeted republican posted:

Hello early FPS thread, I took the challenge to play Nitemare 3-D after learning of problematic Arab stereortypes in a game I previously championed, Operation Bodycount. However, instead of just going through level 1 and calling it quits, I got through as much of level 2 as I could before the game became too much for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLwpvZlPyXA

I was concerned with the game's diversity. The main character, the antagonist, and most of the enemies are white. Frankenstein's Monster is is a grey color, though I am not sure if it is meant as a slight against PoCs or not. The skeleton character looked male as well, which is upsetting. Where are the women skeletons at?

Another problematic issue is that the plot is based on the player saving their girlfriend from a mad scientist. However, a woman enemy is probably the strongest out of all the foes I faced in the and does not wear a revealing outfit, so I feel that it cancels out.

Generally though, I'd say that the same is good for those looking for safe, non-problematic FPS games. When playing, I did not find any triggering racism nor sexism, which means the game should be safe for anyone to enjoy. I have not found any troubling statements about women and PoC from the creator as well, which made all of iD's games unplayable for me. I hope that the modding tools and source code are released so that we can all enjoy modding a great game that has very little offensive content and keep shitlords away from a safe space.

Misogyny: of out 5 John Carmacks

Racism: out of five Sergeant_Mark_IVs

Overall: out of 5 Arivias

(This game is a huge piece of poo poo. DO NOT PLAY THIS.)

You forgot your #gamergate hashtag, scrub.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 22:10

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I played that game so much as a kid, and I still forget how absolutely terrible it is.

Obviously, the source code needs to be released so we can have Brutal Nitemare 3D. Tell Frankenstein to go gently caress himself! Mouselook up or down to the void that is the ceiling/floor! Make skeletons bleed!

Or maybe... the game is brutal enough?

It would've been a bit better if the game didn't have such lovely collision detection for combat. You have to hit the dead center of anything for the game to register it. The problem is that it's very difficult to move left or right in a way to face exactly where the enemy's dead center is. There were several times in the video where it was plain impossible for me to hit an enemy because the Nitemare 3D dude would never move just enough that I could hit the center of a foe, like in the tight hallway with the banshee. This makes the skeletons and banshees a tremendous pain in the rear end because they can hit you with hitscan attacks with no problems, while I have to fumble around with the left and right keys, hoping that I could hit the sweet spot before they killed me.

Also, gently caress having enemies appear in your face as soon as you enter another part of a map.

# ? Nov 27, 2014 22:59

laserghost: Feb 12, 2014; ^{trust me, I'm a cat.}

The title of purest, politics-free FPS still belongs to Ken's Labirynth

# ? Nov 27, 2014 23:53

Diabetes Forecast: Aug 13, 2008; Droopy Only

Arivia posted:

This should go right to gamers.txt and rot there.

Having sensibility and being able to separate information is apparently ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE now, noted!
Also it's literally what you've said, just with more words, so

Arivia posted:

No I'm not. I was speaking honestly about my viewpoint and what I understand about a prominent figure in this thread. And you're right, I did assume people cared about women and other marginalized groups. There's no such thing as tumblr-itis.

People care about it, stop turning poo poo around to suit your 15 minutes. but this isn't the time or place for this poo poo. If you want to DO something rather than forcing this stuff into everyone's faces in EVERY subject, maybe you should go out and join some of the Ferguson rallies or do charity work. Instead, you're just kinda diddling yourself on an internet forum! Good job!

What I'm saying is when are you gonna grow up.

Diabetes Forecast fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Nov 28, 2014

# ? Nov 28, 2014 00:01

Karasu Tengu: Feb 16, 2011; Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter

If you really want to complain about gender and racial inequalities in games, classic FPS's are a pretty terrible starting point. They have big mod support, a heavy online focus, and no real characters which all results in you being able to play and enjoy the game as whatever or whoever you want.

# ? Nov 28, 2014 00:10

glam bam rock: Jun 2, 2009; aaaaaaaaawwwwwwwww
WHAM BAM THANK YA GLAM

Cat Mattress posted:

Yes!

Go play BAUHAUS and Mayan Mishap and Fifty Shades of Graytall

yeah this is some p good stuff

# ? Nov 28, 2014 03:27

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

Now that we've gotten everything out of our system, have a teaser video of the earliest found build of Duke Nukem 3D, dating back to 1994.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIswGsuk3gA

This will be in public hands soon enough.

Also, if you bought the 3D Realms Anthology a while back, a big patch for it is out.

# ? Nov 28, 2014 16:23

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

The Kins posted:

Now that we've gotten everything out of our system, have a teaser video of the earliest found build of Duke Nukem 3D, dating back to 1994.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIswGsuk3gA

This will be in public hands soon enough.

Also, if you bought the 3D Realms Anthology a while back, a big patch for it is out.

That looks like hot garbage.

# ? Nov 28, 2014 17:11

wafflemoose: Apr 10, 2009

I have to agree, it makes LameDuke look GOOD in comparison. But, it is an interesting look at Duke3D's evolution.

# ? Nov 28, 2014 17:37

Nokiaman: Mar 2, 2013

Bathtub Cheese posted:

Oh god ahahaha :golfclap:

# ? Nov 28, 2014 21:03

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

That map is actually in Lameduke as E2L1, in case you want to see a later version of it.

# ? Nov 28, 2014 21:47

Karasu Tengu: Feb 16, 2011; Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter

From the end of that video, it looks like 3D Realms is about to dump some hot beta action all over the Anthology, I wonder if there will be anything particularly cool hidden away.

# ? Nov 28, 2014 21:54

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# ? May 14, 2024 09:27

laserghost: Feb 12, 2014; ^{trust me, I'm a cat.}

Duke3D had really some interesting progression during the development period, I wonder when they ditched the idea of straight DN2 sequel with cola cans etc. for mature, violent b-movie like romp of the finished game.

# ? Nov 28, 2014 22:54

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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