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Majorian posted:It's unclear that he started that altercation. It seems to me like you're really committed to believing that the black guy in this instance was inherently violent, which is really unexpected. Is it really so unexpected? A likely white random poster just trying to stir some jimmies up in a thread, and will likely just say the same thing over and over to illicit responses he won't read? nevermind the fact that this is all entirely unrelated to the shooting.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:13
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Samurai Sanders posted:Are you suggesting that he should have called for backup before confronting Brown about his jaywalking? I mean, there's only three minutes after that when anything could have happened, right? No, not at all. I was talking about police responses and training in general; jaywalking shouldn't have even been on the radar for Wilson, really.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:13
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quote:Mr. Groubert, who has been fired and charged with assault and battery, tells his side of the story in audio obtained this week by MSNBC. He explains how he stopped Mr. Jones for a seat belt violation, how Mr. Jones "jumped out," of his car, and "stared at me." Mr. Groubert says that "as I approached him, he jumped headfirst into his car" and that is when he ordered Mr. Jones out, "he jumped out of the car. I saw something black in his hands. I ran to the other side of the car, yelling at him, and he kept coming towards me. Apparently it was his wallet." lol
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Nov 27, 2014 23:13
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blakangel posted:For the people that haven't seen the convenience store vid: Whether he paid or not is still unclear though. I have been looking for a statement from the clerk. Haven't found one yet.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:15
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Majorian posted:It's unclear that he started that altercation. It seems to me like you're really committed to believing that the black guy in this instance was inherently violent, which is really unexpected. Clearly the guy shoving the store owner isn't at fault here. But yes, keep mentioning the scary black man narrative.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:17
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Samurai Sanders posted:Are you suggesting that he should have called for backup before confronting Brown about his jaywalking? I mean, there's only three minutes after that when anything could have happened, right? I think his point was that instead of getting out of his car and shooting at someone running away from him, calling for backup to pursue and apprehend instead of magdumping in the middle of a neighborhood would have been the better choice.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:18
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FAUXTON posted:I think his point was that instead of getting out of his car and shooting at someone running away from him, calling for backup to pursue and apprehend instead of magdumping in the middle of a neighborhood would have been the better choice. 1. confronting Brown and his friend in the first place 2. doing whatever caused the physical altercation 3. drawing his gun 4. shooting Brown the first time 5. shooting Brown the other times I also wanted to say "patrolling alone" as #1 but in the Cincinnati incident the guy had a partner there and it didn't stop him from blowing the kid away. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Nov 27, 2014 |
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Nov 27, 2014 23:22
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Vaall posted:Clearly the guy shoving the store owner isn't at fault here. But yes, keep mentioning the scary black man narrative. Missouri Assault Laws posted:Third Degree Assault
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Nov 27, 2014 23:24
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Shaocaholica posted:I was under the impression that they shot him because he was reaching for something in his pants, not because they warned him 3 times and then decided enough time had passed without raising his hands. Frankly I think it is important to remember that absent the police nothing bad would have happened here. This isn't even in the (not at all really) gray area that the Michael Brown shooting was, this was an unarmed child playing around with a toy. The police hosed up here, they hosed up so severely that in my opinion the officer who fired should end up in jail, probably for manslaughter rather than murder but jail all the same. Moreover, this is an example of the exact problem with the american legal system, particularly with how it treats african americans. This was a twelve year old child who got shot, not some gangbanger who was getting shouted at during a drug raid. The police should be held to a higher standard than "The twelve year old reached for his waist so we put two bullets into his chest."
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Nov 27, 2014 23:26
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I love how Brown nearly tips himself over pushing the much smaller, lighter store owner out of the way and then barely recovers to waddle walk. Brown was big but he certainly wasn't strong, well balanced, athletic, let alone a demonically powered man-beast that could make a 6'4" grown man feel like a helpless child.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:26
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unlimited shrimp posted:It's pretty clear from the video that the store owner initiates contact and tries keep Brown in the store. Pretty sure that qualifies as assault. Its pretty clear from the video that Brown became violent after being caught stealing from the store. Pretty sure that qualifies as assault.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:28
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Samurai Sanders posted:Well, it sure seems like literally everything would have been a better choice, starting with not confronting him in the first place. Actually, lemme try to make a list. Let me know if I've forgotten anything. It's almost as though you're saying he had multiple points at which better choices (not resulting in a dead kid in the street) were available and he instead chose the ones that ended in the death of Michael Brown. There's typically a system we use to determine whether those bad choices rise to the level of being criminal but it seems there's a "WHITES ONLY" sign above its entryway.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:30
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Vaall posted:Its pretty clear from the video that Brown became violent after being caught stealing from the store. Pretty sure that qualifies as assault. Again a robbery is not clear.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:30
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Vaall posted:Its pretty clear from the video that Brown became violent after being caught stealing from the store. Pretty sure that qualifies as assault. quote:St. Louis local news is reporting that the Attorney for the Ferguson store, Jake Kanzler said the the Ferguson store owner, nor any store employee called the police to report any shoplifting of cigars, but, rather, a customer called the police.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:30
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Shaocaholica posted:I was under the impression that they shot him because he was reaching for something in his pants, not because they warned him 3 times and then decided enough time had passed without raising his hands. and? it was a 12 year old kid. his age group represents about 0.5% of the homicides in 2012. they're about the least deadly humans around
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Nov 27, 2014 23:30
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unlimited shrimp posted:Conjecture. Yeah the store owner was too busy trying to stop him stealing instead of calling the police.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:34
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Deadulus posted:Whether he paid or not is still unclear though. When someone confronts you, accusing you of not paying for merch, do you push them like that?
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Nov 27, 2014 23:35
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Condiv posted:and? it was a 12 year old kid. his age group represents about 0.5% of the homicides in 2012. they're about the least deadly humans around Cops didn't know and were stupid enough to put themselves in a situation where it didn't matter.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:37
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Vaall posted:Yeah the store owner was too busy trying to stop him stealing instead of calling the police. too busy for all of 5 seconds? plus, it looks like brown paid in the video. plus his friend didn't get charged as an accomplice to robbery.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:37
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Shaocaholica posted:When someone confronts you, accusing you of not paying for merch, do you push them like that? Do you call the police when you are robbed? We don't even know what they said to each other. A statement from the clerk could clear that up.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:38
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Condiv posted:too busy for all of 5 seconds? plus, it looks like brown paid in the video. plus his friend didn't get charged as an accomplice to robbery. edit: hell, or charge Brown with robbery even though he's dead, just to make sure the blacks in that town know how hosed they are. If you're gonna go part of the way down that path, why not go all the way? Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Nov 27, 2014 |
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Nov 27, 2014 23:40
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Shaocaholica posted:Cops didn't know and were stupid enough to put themselves in a situation where it didn't matter. cops didn't know kids and old people are the least likely people to commit a homicide? really? the people who have to deal with homicides more than almost anyone can't possibly notice that of all of the homicides they deal with a vanishingly small fraction of them are by kids (and an even smaller fraction of those are murder II or murder I)? most normal people are aware that kids don't pose a serious homicidal threat to them even without the benefit of experience or knowledge of statistics. i mean the only way the "he was reaching for the gun!!!!!" stuff works is if the cops literally believed the kid possessed murderous intent. you don't just execute someone cause they have bad gun ettiquette Condiv fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Nov 27, 2014 |
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Nov 27, 2014 23:40
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It seems way more likely that Brown robbed the place than some sort of weird confrontation where a store owner refuses to Brown the display box of cigarillos and then physically attacks brown to prevent him from leaving. e: the clerk didn't call the cops because he didn't want any trouble which is pretty lol considering what happened to his store regardless. Miltank fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Nov 27, 2014 |
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Nov 27, 2014 23:42
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Shaocaholica posted:When someone confronts you, accusing you of not paying for merch, do you push them like that? The clerk put his hands on Brown.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:42
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Condiv posted:too busy for all of 5 seconds? plus, it looks like brown paid in the video. plus his friend didn't get charged as an accomplice to robbery. His friend put a bunch of cigars back on the counter. Something obviously happened, but since we won't have a trial, I doubt we will ever know what it was. SedanChair posted:The clerk put his hands on Brown. This, too. If you are being robbed or whatever, call the cops. Don't loving grab people, etc. Pohl fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Nov 27, 2014 |
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Nov 27, 2014 23:42
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SedanChair posted:The clerk put his hands on Brown. No, he didn't. He got in front of him. Watch the video.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:45
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Shaocaholica posted:When someone confronts you, accusing you of not paying for merch, do you push them like that? After you've paid? After the 10th time? The 50th?
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Nov 27, 2014 23:45
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Vaall posted:No, he didn't. He got in front of him. Watch the video. Why don't you get in a cop's path so that your hands touch his chest. Let me know if you get charged with assault or not
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Nov 27, 2014 23:47
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RodShaft posted:After you've paid? what does this even mean?
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Nov 27, 2014 23:47
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SedanChair posted:Why don't you get in a cop's path so that your hands touch his chest. Let me know if you get charged with assault or not The store owner wasn't a cop. And I wouldn't get in a cop's path with stolen merchandise.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:48
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Miltank posted:what does this even mean? That as a black person you probably get accused of stealing quite a lot, and probably get sick and tired of it leading to poorly timed outbursts.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:49
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SectumSempra posted:Is it really so unexpected? T'was sarcasm.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:50
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You guys can continue to believe that Brown didn't rob the convenience store. I'll be over here listening to what his friend said.quote:The friend who was with Michael Brown when he was shot and killed by a police officer near St. Louis over the weekend is reportedly confirming that he and Brown had taken part in the theft of cigars from a convenience store that day. http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/
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Nov 27, 2014 23:50
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BAD POSTER ALERT!
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It's not that serious a crime, but it is a crime. If Brown were alive, and the store owner pressed charges, it's quite possible for McCollough to have thrown the book at him and sent him to prison for some time, particularly in Missouri.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:50
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Vaall posted:Yeah the store owner was too busy trying to stop him stealing instead of calling the police. You're not doing a very good job of not seeming biased against black people here.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:51
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Yeah and this clear evidence of robbery is why Darren Wilson executed him. I mean, he was going to prison for life anyway, why not just end his life faster?
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Nov 27, 2014 23:52
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Miltank posted:what does this even mean? It means perhaps this was what the shop guy did regularly and Brown had been fed up with it.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:52
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Pohl posted:His friend put a bunch of cigars back on the counter. yeah, putting merchandise back on a counter doesn't show that a robbery happened. i've done it at stores before, and i certainly wasn't robbing them. as for why the clerk tried to block brown's exit, we don't know why, but there's plenty of explanations aside from robbery (like the clerk didn't check id, remembered, and brown didn't have any). again, if brown stole the cigarellos, why wasn't his friend charged as an accomplice? just leaving the store and hanging around with someone who had robbed a gas station would be enough proof for the cops. plus wilson said brown's friend took the cigarillos for him while brown was beating wilson's face in, so again, accomplice to robbery.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:52
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Caros posted:That as a black person you probably get accused of stealing quite a lot, and probably get sick and tired of it leading to poorly timed outbursts. That is what I thought you meant. Pretty shortsighted way to try and justify some obviously aggressive actions imo. e: that racist shopkeep probably got what he deserved the other night huh? Miltank fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Nov 27, 2014 |
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Nov 27, 2014 23:53
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Majorian posted:You're not doing a very good job of not seeming biased against black people here. I guess the convenience store camera is biased towards black people.
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Nov 27, 2014 23:55
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