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Akumu posted:Well there's the chart from PBS Newshour: As TPM points out, 6 witnesses said Brown charged at Wilson while 13 witnesses said that Brown had his hands up when when he was shot. So it seems like the witness testimony, in a general sense, is actually balanced in favor of Brown, as opposed to the conventional wisdom that it's the other way around. I guess the takeaway is that "conventional wisdom" sure is receptive to racist spin when it comes to cops killing black people.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:12
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Xae posted:Wait, you're telling me people in this thread are just arguing against each other's Strawmen all day? From examining the evidence/transcripts I wish someone had done a decent job so that we could have definitive answers to our questions. I'm going to to head to Home Depot and send the Ferguson PD a tape measure and some camera batteries.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:14
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Xae posted:Wait, you're telling me people in this thread are just arguing against each other's Strawmen all day? Welcome to internet.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:15
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beatlegs posted:As TPM points out, 6 witnesses said Brown charged at Wilson while 13 witnesses said that Brown had his hands up when when he was shot. So it seems like the witness testimony, in a general sense, is actually balanced in favor of Brown, as opposed to the conventional wisdom that it's the other way around. Am I the only person who is weirded out that Wilson was either not asked or didn't have an answer about whether the man he shot had his hands up?
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Nov 28, 2014 03:18
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Caros posted:Am I the only person who is weirded out that Wilson was either not asked or didn't have an answer about whether the man he shot had his hands up? Are you questioning an officer of the law? That's aggression, citizen.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:20
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Dum Cumpster posted:From examining the evidence/transcripts I wish someone had done a decent job so that we could have definitive answers to our questions. I'm going to to head to Home Depot and send the Ferguson PD a tape measure and some camera batteries. It is absolutely true that the PD hosed up. But I'm willing to bet on incompetence, not malice. At least in Minnesota all officer involved shootings have to be investigated by a different agency, usually the County Sheriff or a State Agency, to make any cove up less likely. Missouri needs to get their poo poo together. There are good points to be made about police resorting mag dumping anyone who blinks at them wrong, policing standards and reforms but they are getting lost in calling everyone a racist or anarchist.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:20
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My Lil Parachute posted:...Gotta pity the guy who got robbed.... I feel like there's a sizeable gap in what I know about this case, but what was the owner deprived of in the robbery? How much financial loss did he experience? What did M. Brown say to him during the robbery?
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Nov 28, 2014 03:20
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Hawkline posted:I feel like there's a sizeable gap in what I know about this case, but what was the owner deprived of in the robbery? How much financial loss did he experience? What did M. Brown say to him during the robbery? Rioters looted his store during the First night of uhh.. "Unrest" after the lack of indictment was announced.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:22
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Xae posted:Rioters looted his store during the First night of uhh.. "Unrest" after the lack of indictment was announced. I guess I should post the entire quote then quote:Gotta pity the guy who got robbed, then looted by the people protesting the shooting of the thief I should also add that I think the questions I asked are easily answerable in any case of felony robbery in pretty much any jurisdiction ever.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:26
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The owner definitely didn't report a robbery.Xae posted:It is absolutely true that the PD hosed up. But I'm willing to bet on incompetence, not malice. I wasn't trying to imply that it was some conspiracy that everyone was in on. From the transcripts of the measurement and camera battery people, they just sound like idiots. My biggest problem with the whole thing is I was jumped last year, looked way worse than Wilson did in the pictures submitted as evidence to back up his claims of thinking he was going to be knocked out, and never felt like I was going to be knocked out. Also I did muai thai for a bit so I have some experience getting punched in my stupid face and never looked like someone just applied some rouge on my cheeks after taking a beating. His story just seems like it's complete bullshit to me, and I wish there was definitive evidence to prove it either way. Like was the road rash on Brown's face deep enough to be consistent with Wilson saying he face planted and his feet flew up in the air?
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Nov 28, 2014 03:28
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Caros posted:Am I the only person who is weirded out that Wilson was either not asked or didn't have an answer about whether the man he shot had his hands up? I mean, do you think you don't already know the answer? (And again, those are the interviews, not the testimony to the grand jury. At the grand jury he described the position of Brown's hands.)
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Nov 28, 2014 03:28
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Hawkline posted:I feel like there's a sizeable gap in what I know about this case, but what was the owner deprived of in the robbery? How much financial loss did he experience? What did M. Brown say to him during the robbery? It would be really lovely to watch some kid steal from you and then push and threaten you in your own store. Miltank fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 03:29
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Miltank posted:It would be really lovely to watch some kid steal from you and then push and threaten you in your own store. http://sfbayview.com/2014/08/mike-brown-appears-to-have-paid-for-those-cigars/  looks like he tried to pay for them and the shop owner assaulted him
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Nov 28, 2014 03:30
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And his buddy just made up a story about Brown stealing them for no reason, right.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:32
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It would be really lovely to be yelled at and hit by some shop owner and then yelled at and shot to death by some cop.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:33
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MonsieurChoc posted:Everyone who is defending the policeman or trying to shift the blame to Michael Brown is a racist rear end in a top hat. There, I said it. Hmmmmm.......dropped the R word. Don't believe in my opinion your a R... Did you back up you opinion with anything .......no ....why are you here?
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Nov 28, 2014 03:33
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Dum Cumpster posted:http://sfbayview.com/2014/08/mike-brown-appears-to-have-paid-for-those-cigars/ So Johnson lied about him not having any money with him and stealing the cigars?
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Nov 28, 2014 03:34
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beatlegs posted:As TPM points out, 6 witnesses said Brown charged at Wilson while 13 witnesses said that Brown had his hands up when when he was shot. So it seems like the witness testimony, in a general sense, is actually balanced in favor of Brown, as opposed to the conventional wisdom that it's the other way around. The chart only documents what's in the witness statements, not what they said in front of the grand jury. Several of them changed their stories or described something that the evidence completely contradicted.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:36
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Dahn posted:Hmmmmm.......dropped the R word. Don't believe in my opinion your a R... Did you back up you opinion with anything .......no ....why are you here? whts the r word? reganmoics?
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Nov 28, 2014 03:37
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Miltank posted:And his buddy just made up a story about Brown stealing them for no reason, right. Kalman posted:So Johnson lied about him not having any money with him and stealing the cigars? I think it's been shown that Johnson is an unreliable witness. Hell, they're trying to bring him up on perjury charges http://www.inquisitr.com/1639235/dorian-johnson-darren-wilson-allies-reportedly-fighting-for-perjury-charges-against-michael-browns-friend/
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Nov 28, 2014 03:37
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Ernie Muppari posted:whts the r word? That's a hell of a word.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:38
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Dum Cumpster posted:It would be really lovely to be yelled at and hit by some shop owner and then yelled at and shot to death by some cop. lol yes up is down and mike brown was the victim of the tiny little store owner whom he stole from and shoved. Dum Cumpster posted:I think it's been shown that Johnson is an unreliable witness. Hell, they're trying to bring him up on perjury charges http://www.inquisitr.com/1639235/dorian-johnson-darren-wilson-allies-reportedly-fighting-for-perjury-charges-against-michael-browns-friend/ so he literally just made the whole story up for no reason then yeah that makes sense.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:39
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Dum Cumpster posted:http://sfbayview.com/2014/08/mike-brown-appears-to-have-paid-for-those-cigars/  I don't really watch TV news. How much have they been showing this picture?
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Nov 28, 2014 03:39
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Miltank posted:lol yes up is down and mike brown was the victim of the tiny little store owner whom he stole from and shoved. I'm sorry, do you not agree with the conclusions of the prosecutor?
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Nov 28, 2014 03:40
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yeah I noticed it too. Thats a much nicer picture.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:40
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Dum Cumpster posted:I think it's been shown that Johnson is an unreliable witness. Hell, they're trying to bring him up on perjury charges http://www.inquisitr.com/1639235/dorian-johnson-darren-wilson-allies-reportedly-fighting-for-perjury-charges-against-michael-browns-friend/ No, they're not. Random people calling for someone to be brought up on perjury charges is not at all the same thing as someone being an unreliable witness.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:41
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Kalman posted:No, they're not. Random people calling for someone to be brought up on perjury charges is not at all the same thing as someone being an unreliable witness. Then why is everyone stating Wilson's depiction of events as fact?
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Nov 28, 2014 03:42
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Miltank posted:yeah I noticed it too. Thats a much nicer picture. No wait, he's holding up Crips with his left hand. That means "kill cops."
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Nov 28, 2014 03:42
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Dum Cumpster posted:I'm sorry, do you not agree with the conclusions of the prosecutor? I'm sorry, I don't know what you are talking about.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:42
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Dum Cumpster posted:I think it's been shown that Johnson is an unreliable witness. Hell, they're trying to bring him up on perjury charges http://www.inquisitr.com/1639235/dorian-johnson-darren-wilson-allies-reportedly-fighting-for-perjury-charges-against-michael-browns-friend/ Man it would be hilarious if the only jail time that comes out of this shooting is the poor guy who watched his friend get gunned down.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:43
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Miltank posted:I'm sorry, I don't know what you are talking about. As he stated in the press conference, some witnesses, which clearly Johnson is a part of, were proven to be lying by the physical evidence. So we can't trust anything he said. Sorry, first he is the prosecutor, second is Johnson
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Nov 28, 2014 03:44
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kazmeyer posted:The chart only documents what's in the witness statements, not what they said in front of the grand jury. Several of them changed their stories or described something that the evidence completely contradicted. By "evidence" you mean....
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Nov 28, 2014 03:44
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Kalman posted:So Johnson lied about him not having any money with him and stealing the cigars? Apparently so since he wasn't arrested or even charged for his role in the alleged robbery. Or his apparent role in receiving stolen goods to aid his friend by freeing up his deadly black fists of fury to pummel a 5 year old. Accessory to robbery, receiving stolen goods, accessory to assault on a police officer. Sound like offenses punishable by death to me.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:45
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Yeah, it's funny how Brown's offenses justified his execution by cop, yet his accomplice is allowed to walk the streets a free man.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:50
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Dum Cumpster posted:As he stated in the press conference, some witnesses, which clearly Johnson is a part of, were proven to be lying by the physical evidence. So we can't trust anything he said. I don't know man it seems pretty crazy that Johnson would just lie about an incriminating event out of the blue when the exact opposite actually happened. Being a reliable witness to the killing of your friend is pretty different from describing something that happened earlier that day
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Nov 28, 2014 03:52
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fknlo posted:Apparently so since he wasn't arrested or even charged for his role in the alleged robbery. Or his apparent role in receiving stolen goods to aid his friend by freeing up his deadly black fists of fury to pummel a 5 year old. What role, exactly, did he play in the robbery? Standing there? Handing back cigarillos? I'm just curious.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:52
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beatlegs posted:Yeah, it's funny how Brown's offenses justified his execution by cop, yet his accomplice is allowed to walk the streets a free man. Trust me, if the police shot him tomorrow it would be "Mike Brown accomplice Dorian Johnson"
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Nov 28, 2014 03:53
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Miltank posted:I don't know man it seems pretty crazy that Johnson would just lie about an incriminating event out of the blue when the exact opposite actually happened. Being a reliable witness to the killing of your friend is pretty different from describing something that happened earlier that day Police have never swayed the statements from an impressionable youth before by threatening charges or consequences that may or may not actually be possible before, either.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:55
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Hawkline posted:Police have never swayed the statements from an impressionable youth before by threatening charges or consequences that may or may not actually be possible before, either. that makes no sense in the context of what happened.
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Nov 28, 2014 03:56
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Miltank posted:that makes no sense in the context of what happened. And how's that?
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Nov 28, 2014 03:57
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