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FAUXTON posted:There's something irksome about that kind of behavior - it'd be like Massachusetts adopting a similar design to Australia's for their flag, but with a clam instead of the southern cross or something. Lots of flags are reminiscent of the US flag without being the US flag, all of that was deliberate Italy and Mexico, Romania and Belgium, both of those and Germany This state of affairs:  The state flags that look like Confederate flags are sending a racist message, and that's a reason to change them. But if you find flag duplication itself irksome, where will your ire end? HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 06:14
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Counterpoint: look how loving sweet Norway's flag is. If Estonia went full Nordic and changed their flag to a Black-Blue-White Nordic cross, I bet it would look even better.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:24
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Counterpoint: look how loving sweet Norway's flag is. If Estonia went full Nordic and changed their flag to a Black-Blue-White Nordic cross, I bet it would look even better. (One billion versions of "Union Jack in a canton" also go here)
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Nov 28, 2014 06:27
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Also compare Poland's and Indonesia's flags.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:28
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HEY GAL posted:Hey, I'm not the one with a problem with flag duplication! Also compare all the variations on three bands of Red/Green/Blue/White/Orange of various sorts and orientations. Italy vs. Bulgaria vs. Cote D'Ivoire vs. Hungary vs. Ireland vs. Tajikistan vs. India and France vs. Luxembourg vs. Netherlands vs. Russia
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Nov 28, 2014 06:39
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Ironically, considering what spawned this derail, the only acceptable flag is therefore South Carolina's. Edit: Wait, it's dark blue, not dark purple? Weak. Never mind. Also,  South Carolina naval ensign during Revolutionary and Civil Wars HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 06:43
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HEY GAL posted:Russia looks like France if you tilt your head I didn't mean to imply flag duplication irksome in and of itself - it isn't as though there's something inherently wrong with a St. Andrew's Cross design on the flag, it's just the direct re-usage of confederacy imagery. Not only was the confederacy a country founded for the conservation of slavery, it was a failed state that collapsed under the war it started for its own independence. It was basically a harlequin baby in hosed-up statecraft form. These jackasses aren't just reusing the layout, they're straight-up xeroxing the flag of their failed slaver state in Georgia's case and using a minor partial recoloring in Mississippi's case. That's why I cited a flag like Australia's where they have the UK flag in the top left with the So. Cross in the rest of the design.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:44
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Elyv posted:Also compare Poland's and Indonesia's flags. But think of the savings! You can buy just one flag and then flip it upside down when you need to change it!
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Nov 28, 2014 07:07
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Bacarruda posted:But think of the savings! You can buy just one flag and then flip it upside down when you need to change it! 
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Nov 28, 2014 07:12
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PittTheElder posted:Counterpoint: look how loving sweet Norway's flag is. If Estonia went full Nordic and changed their flag to a Black-Blue-White Nordic cross, I bet it would look even better. Yeah I love the look of Norway's flag. Easily my favorite of the Nordics.
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Nov 28, 2014 07:29
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HEY GAL posted:order now and we'll throw in the US-specific "State Seal On A Background" set for half off Does it come with a sticker so I can change my Alabama flag into an extra Florida flag? And gently caress Ohio for being all fancy with their swallowtail flag. They're almost as bad as the Nepalese...
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Nov 28, 2014 07:30
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Bacarruda posted:Does it come with a sticker so I can change my Alabama flag into an extra Florida flag? Maryland wins for most fabulous.
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Nov 28, 2014 07:33
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wait nevermind the legacy confederate flags, why does Hawaii have a Union Jack in it  and all the Nordic cross flags are pretty good. at least they're not tricolour. gently caress every tricolour flag. some time ago people were talking about flags and the website for (fancy name for people who think they know flags) got linked. it was all the biggest bullshit, they were dumb. flags suck Koramei fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 07:38
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FAUXTON posted:Maryland wins for most fabulous. A good ol' fashioned quartering is a lot better than most of those flags.
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Nov 28, 2014 07:38
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Koramei posted:wait nevermind the legacy confederate flags, why does Hawaii have a Union Jack in it Hawai'i was a British colony for like 100 years or something.
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Nov 28, 2014 08:18
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Flagchat? Really? 
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Nov 28, 2014 08:33
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Koesj posted:Flagchat? Really? It is like being in a Paradox thread. Anyway, the Danish flag is the superior cross flag because it has the coolest origin lore.
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Nov 28, 2014 10:34
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MrBling posted:It is like being in a Paradox thread. Valdemar II called in a flagstrike on his own position.
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Nov 28, 2014 10:41
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Is there any reference to punishments to real war crimes committed during Sherman's March to the Sea? I know that contrary to Lost Causers and other confederate apologists narrative that the march wasn't nearly as factually loving awful as they like to portray it. Destructive to property, absolutely and understandably from the Union's perspective. But I would love some actual refutation that the fabled mass rapes were condoned, especially if Union soldiers were getting hanged by whatever the era equivalent of court martials were. Point being, I would like some proof that it was much better to have the Union running riot in your heartland rather than, say, the mongols or the nazis.
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Nov 28, 2014 12:45
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Frostwerks posted:Is there any reference to punishments to real war crimes committed during Sherman's March to the Sea? I know that contrary to Lost Causers and other confederate apologists narrative that the march wasn't nearly as factually loving awful as they like to portray it. Destructive to property, absolutely and understandably from the Union's perspective. But I would love some actual refutation that the fabled mass rapes were condoned, especially if Union soldiers were getting hanged by whatever the era equivalent of court martials were. Point being, I would like some proof that it was much better to have the Union running riot in your heartland rather than, say, the mongols or the nazis. Outside of using captured traitors to sweep for mines in the road and the typical looting that occurs when clearing an occupied area, Lost Causers love to hang all sorts of heinous bullshit around Sherman's neck.
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Nov 28, 2014 13:10
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Patrick Spens posted:It was not about States Rights, because Confederate States were required to allow slavery. This is kind of a non sequitur...I suspect the CSA states would have responded with the fact that they voluntarily entered a constitution that mandated/protected slavery, as it was their "right" to do. There's a more complicated answer to this that is sort of encapsulated in the "died of an idea" quote which we discussed a few pages ago. In short, CSA states preferred their "rights" to winning the war, for better or worse.
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Nov 28, 2014 15:00
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PittTheElder posted:Counterpoint: look how loving sweet Norway's flag is. If Estonia went full Nordic and changed their flag to a Black-Blue-White Nordic cross, I bet it would look even better. It would:    
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Nov 28, 2014 15:07
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Best flag is Oregon full stop Giant gold emblem on one side? Check. Huge loving gold beaver on the other? Oh yeah Asymmetrically Two sided flags are the best and random goofy animals raise them to art. I have a hard time getting inspired by a geometric pattern, but I would follow the proudly waving golden beaver into the gaping maw of hell.
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Nov 28, 2014 15:43
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If we're going to talk about flags, lets talk about the military history of battle standards and signal stuff instead. I really like the look of some of the Napoleonic regimental stuff.
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Nov 28, 2014 16:45
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The Yaroslavl Oblast in Russia has the best flag in the world. This is scientifically proven.
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Nov 28, 2014 17:10
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Thanks, now I know where Wojtek came from.
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Nov 28, 2014 17:12
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Arquinsiel posted:The Yaroslavl Oblast in Russia has the best flag in the world. This is scientifically proven. I support the right to arm bears.
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Nov 28, 2014 17:24
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How sustainable were early military superpowers such as the Persian Empire or the Sui Dynasty? Could armies of such a scale last indefinitely or would they be a large economic drain for their respective empires?
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Nov 28, 2014 17:36
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Well, contrary to what that one guy said, military standards seem to be getting a lot more abstract as of late. Then again, you're not going to fly it on a tank and the best it can do is get lost in Generation Kill. I might not be that much interested in flags, but God drat do I love me a battle standard that's crammed with symbols, colors, pennants, battle names and poo poo like that. For signals... so before radio, the general would get on a really big hill and try to make out the situation, sending runners to tell certain groups to do certain things? Like in Gettysburg: Scourge of War? (I never played it, but I'd like to)
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Nov 28, 2014 17:51
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Dravinski posted:How sustainable were early military superpowers such as the Persian Empire or the Sui Dynasty? Could armies of such a scale last indefinitely or would they be a large economic drain for their respective empires? Sun Tzu wrote that for every soldier mobilized you need three family's worth of productivity to maintain it. So I imagine the larger empires could in theory since a large military is a large amount of demand for iron, steel, leather, food and so on that could work as a stimulus for the economy, so its not *that* draining by some respects; so long as the ratio of soldiers to total economic capacity is reasonable. Its like spending. The United States has 19 trillion$ in debt, but this is still *sustainable* because of the total size of the US economy.
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Nov 28, 2014 17:53
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SeanBeansShako posted:If we're going to talk about flags, lets talk about the military history of battle standards and signal stuff instead. Before we do that, let's dwell some more on the topic of national flags - but from a milhist POV. Because there's one flag in particular that should make most conservative vexillologists faint:  ah, Mozambique  this is the original 1975 version which I prefer over the current one that has given up on that funky background in favour of a more conservative tricolour design. Just how insanely wicked is it that the first truly massproduced assault rifle is immortalized in the flag of a nation of 20 million??? I've been told for a moment they were going to just rename Rhodesia to Kalashnikovia. True story.Now back to military standards - but contemporary if I may: If you like bears then you'll love the flag of FAF's Satakunta Air Command  if you like semi-nude men then you'll love the flag of Lapland Air Command  if you like severed hands juxtaposed with a crown then what the hell is your dysfunction man?!?  Karelia Air Command's flag features the Karelian coat of arms representing this province as a battleground between Sweden/west (the knight's plated arm with a straight sword) and Russia/east (a ringmail arm with a saracen scimitar... because Orthodox and Muslim are the same thing for medieval Swedish heraldists) Oh, the swastika? It's a callback to 1918 when a Swedish count Eric von Rosen donated an airplane to the White Army by flying it from Sweden to Finland, and that Morane-Saulnier became the very first plane in Finnish Air Force's arsenal. von Rosen had painted his lucky symbol, a blue swastika, on the wings, which became FAF's emblem until 1944 when it was changed to a blue and white roundel. But the standards remain. P.S. Eric von Rosen was later Hermann Göring's BFF & a Nazi sympathizer - but who in the Swedish aristocracy wasn't a Nazi?
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Nov 28, 2014 18:21
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100 Years Ago The Department of The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same is very gratified to see some events today in Waziristan. A force of Afghan tribesmen (possibly taking advantage of the departure of all those sepoys for Europe and Africa, possibly at the instigation of unidentified German agents, possibly just out on the piss) is heading for the local administrative centre of Miranshah. The British commander gulps, stops bemoaning the awful fortune that left him stuck here while all his officer chummies went off to that lovely war, and tries to gather as many of his widely-spread force of men to him as possible. Meanwhile, the Serbians are forced to initiate a general retreat and give up Belgrade; the Ottomans begin massing an army at Beersheba, for operations in Sinai towards the Suez Canal; and the Daily Telegraph lightens the mood with some casual racism. I've also found a link to some satirical "map of Europe" cartoons; I recognise a couple but I haven't seen all of them. Oh, and there's an advert in the paper for Mr Vernon Ward's miraculous new Cure for Obesity! I'm certainly glad that we got that one sorted out in 1914 and don't have to worry about it any more. 10 Hours Ago Speaking of things we totally sorted out and don't have to worry about any more, this just happened in Miranshah, which is just utterly depressing in every way possible. JcDent posted:For signals... so before radio, the general would get on a really big hill and try to make out the situation, sending runners to tell certain groups to do certain things? Pretty much. A large part of Wellington's legend is in how he rode around the field at Waterloo, personally giving orders and keeping morale up at critical moments. This is one of the reasons why it was so difficult to do anything anywhere in the First World War. Weapons ranges had increased so far that the generals had to be miles away from the battle, well out of sight, or else they were going to get a shell up the arse; but wireless radio technology was still about a decade away from filling the communications gap to allow them to receive accurate information and give timely orders from those distances. So, as soon as you attack away from your field-telephones, the blokes on the ground are pissing about with carrier pigeons and runners, which isn't even remotely quick or foolproof. (They even tried chains of semaphore flags at one point, which achieved very little aside from providing the enemy with some target practice.) Meanwhile, the enemy's falling back on its own telephone lines and can communicate and respond in a sliver of a fraction of the time.
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Nov 28, 2014 18:38
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Retarded Pimp posted:Thanks, now I know where Wojtek came from. You can't hug your bear with nuclear arms: 
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Nov 28, 2014 18:43
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Trin Tragula posted:100 Years Ago I love those maps. You left a placeholder link for the day's papers, though. quote:10 Hours Ago 
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Nov 28, 2014 18:57
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Trin Tragula posted:100 Years Ago  That Britain  Also, you mentioned a "featureless Sebia". It's not featureless. It's a pig.
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Nov 28, 2014 19:28
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Oh, it's a pig trying to crawl up Austria-Hungary's bum? Obviously. Don't know how I didn't see that before. 
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Nov 28, 2014 19:43
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Nenonen posted:Eric von Rosen... Carl von Rosen, Eric's son, was one hell of a dude. We held a The Most Interesting Man in the World contest, Carl von Rosen would have won it, easy. Some highlights of his life: -Hermann loving Goering was his uncle -flew in a flying circus -survived being mustard-gassed by Italians in Ethiopi -bombed Russians in a DC-2 -smuggled secret documents out of the Netherlands during the Nazi invasion -assigned to be UN General Secretary Dag Hammarskjöld's pilot in the Congo. At the last moment, von Rosen got sick and had to be replaced by another pilot. Hammarskjöld's plane crashed, killing everyone on aboard -flew sea-skimming mission in a DC-7 flying food aid into Biafra -converted sport planes into attack aircraft, formed a mercenary squadron called the "Biafra Babies" and then blew up half the Nigerian air force on the ground    
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Nov 28, 2014 19:44
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Bacarruda posted:Carl von Rosen, Eric's son, was one hell of a dude. This guy is the greatest man to ever live
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Nov 28, 2014 19:59
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Cyrano4747 posted:Best flag is Oregon full stop HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 20:08
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Was Hammerskojld's plane in a crash or was it shot down? Thought people were inclining to the latter.
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Nov 28, 2014 20:13
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