|
"AN 8.53" posted:I have heard that at one time the Blessed One was staying at Vesali, in the Peaked Roof Hall in the Great Forest. Another thing that you come across a lot in the suttas is the Dhamma being described as the teaching that is 'good in the beginning, good in the middle and good in the end'. Wherever you are on the path, it should be leading you towards peace, towards contentment, towards kindness and compassion. It is a happy path. If you're getting all negative and depressed, that's probably just some wrong view.
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 15:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 16:16 |
|
|
Tautologicus posted:
You're stating the obvious. Open any zen book and you will find this. There is no need to pretend to be an enlightened hero that brings the truth to the stupid SA masses. What you are saying and the description of your experiences are nothing special, really. From my point of view you sound like a nihilistic teenager trying to get attention by using poorly formulated sentences about existential angst. It's okay, really (i did it, and i still do it as well from time to time) ; but maybe you should not post in the buddhist thread, since it's not really relevant to buddhism and not constructive in any way ? Because otherwise people that would be interested in buddhism just come here and see this stuff and might be disappointed by the tone of this "conversation". It's sad because some stuff you say, as obvious as it is to anyone who practices or reads about buddhism, could lead to great introductory and theoretical discussions which i would love to have, but for me your attitude totally ruins it. Wish you the best Ugrok fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Nov 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 16:05
|
|
|
Oh nowwww it's so obvious and everyone gets it. Alright then.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 18:04
|
|
|
Tautologicus posted:Oh nowwww it's so obvious and everyone gets it. Alright then. I had asked about your source in part because I suspected the answer would involve the words "my life." I understand what you are saying, but your assertions can do a lot of damage / put people off that are just starting out, like others have said. If your life is dictating these views, it's important to point out to others that your experiences are ordinary and not special, as are everyone's.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 18:13
|
|
|
Tautologicus posted:Oh nowwww it's so obvious and everyone gets it. Alright then. Most people easily get "hey you exist right now," which is (I'm being generous) what your main point seems to be, but whenever anyone elaborates on that, you go "yeah but you exist right now don't do any practice." You seem to want to adopt the harsh tone of Patrul Rinpoche, speaking directly about the unsatisfactoriness of samsara, but rather than saying "this samsara sucks and you should renounce it and work to escape it," you seem to say "this samsara sucks and if you don't like that well then you are just stupid and delusional and following false paths because you aren't really happy!" It is impossible for an unenlightened person to see into an enlightened person's mind and check whether or not they are enlightened directly. Therefore, the Buddha has taught that the way to tell if a person is enlightened or not is by observation of their behaviors, that they be free from the three poisons of greed, hatred, and delusion. Even those with crazy wisdom can be discerned by observation of their conduct and their speech. This is your life, right now, it's true. Are you happy with it? If you're happy with it, then good, I hope that happiness lasts forever. If your happiness is dependent upon conditioned things though, then it is as impermanent as the objects that it is predicated on, so I hope you find a better support for happiness. If you're unhappy, try something else? That's all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 18:16
|
|
|
I don't do a single thing in my life for happiness, it's never been my goal. I've never been happy. The way in which i perceive is unsatisfactory in every way. This is what keeps me going. No choice at all. Not trying to be special or above anyone. This could all happen to anyone (well something could, who knows what). I've got a GED and a degree from some retard school, I'm not special, I just advocate for myself extra strongly only because I can. You can too, everyone can. I didn't say "don't practice", only that it leads in circles. There's some nuance there. If you pay attention you'll see it too. It's possible to meditate for 40 years.. the worst thing is fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Nov 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 18:28
|
|
|
Tautologicus posted:I don't do a single thing in my life for happiness, it's never been my goal. I've never been happy. The way in which i perceive is unsatisfactory in every way. This is what keeps me going. No choice at all. Not trying to be special or above anyone. This could all happen to anyone. I've got a GED and a degree from some retard school, I'm not special, I just advocate for myself extra strongly only because I can. You can too, everyone can. My issue is the authority you are invoking, which I don't think is there. To beginners that don't know how to discern what they should be looking for in an authority figure, this is dangerous. I'm not saying you are claiming to have it, but the way in which you are making you statements implies it. You don't want to hit people with "There is no Nirvana" right out of the gate. Tautologicus posted:I didn't say "don't practice", only that it leads in circles. There's some nuance there. If you pay attention you'll see it too. It's possible to meditate for 40 years.. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Max fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Nov 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
Tautologicus posted:I've never been happy. The way in which i perceive is unsatisfactory in every way. This is what keeps me going. No choice at all. Not trying to be special or above anyone. This could all happen to anyone. I've got a GED and a degree from some retard school, I'm not special, I just advocate for myself extra strongly only because I can. You can too, everyone can. In what way are you advocating for yourself, when choosing still to be unhappy? Seems silly. "I'm here in this unsatisfactory world of samsara and by gum I'm gonna BE here." You have said that this is it, this is the world we live in. I agree. So why choose to be unhappy? quote:I didn't say "don't practice", only that it leads in circles. There's some nuance there. If you pay attention you'll see it too. It's possible to meditate for 40 years.. Of course, that's the funny thing about practice. The path and the goal are the same, and all that, though that's something that we say like a platitude until it sort of arrives at true. You can meditate for 40 years, but you only achieve enlightenment at one moment. The meditation, the practice, is setting the stage for that final act, though. It is a funny joke, isn't it? Like my precious lama once said about Vajrayana, "it is possible with Vajrayana to attain enlightenment in just one lifetime, but that doesn't mean it's this lifetime." The practice might fruit, or it might not, but if you're happy while doing it, who cares?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 18:40
|
|
|
I'm gonna try to steer this ship in another direction. I just discovered Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche and am absolutely in love with him. He writes so simply yet there's this extreme power and lucidity that I'm finding throughout all his books. In addition there are a ton of free videos on the Ligmincha YouTube channel and they're proving to be a tremendously helpful resource. I feel a really strong connection to the Bon lineage and I'm wishing there were more resources out on it. Can anyone recommend some good authors or books that come from Bon as well?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 19:04
|
|
|
Never mind, steer the ship.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 19:07
|
|
|
The Dark Wind posted:I'm gonna try to steer this ship in another direction. Im probably the one in this thread who knows the most about Bon and i know very little. Found that via google for you. Anything else
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 19:16
|
|
|
Max posted:My issue is the authority you are invoking, which I don't think is there. To beginners that don't know how to discern what they should be looking for in an authority figure, this is dangerous. I'm not saying you are claiming to have it, but the way in which you are making you statements implies it. You should just listen to the Bon guy. He's smiling, has a nice looking family, has written a lot of books with colorful covers and likely flowery, articulate prose. He's gotten a lot of titles and awards too. He'll put a nice spin on things for you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 19:30
|
|
|
I've been slowly getting back into sutta study over the past few weeks. During my last round of reading I was interested in the idea of emptiness, and how it differs in Theravada and Mahayana. Bhikkhu Bodhi released a very timely sutta study video about the Mahāsuññata Sutta, which is (I think) the main treatment of emptiness in the Pali texts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpTp_soGTs So I have something to keep my brain busy for a few days while I follow along with the text. In the comments of the video, someone mentioned that this sutta has parallels to the Heart Sutra, so if anyone has a recommended or favorite translation of the Heart Sutra that they would suggest, I'd like to check that out as well to see how they might resemble each other.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 19:38
|
|
|
Tautologicus posted:You should just listen to the Bon guy. He's smiling, has a nice looking family, has written a lot of books with colorful covers and likely flowery, articulate prose. He's gotten a lot of titles and awards too. He'll put a nice spin on things for you. You should listen to everyone, who are suggesting you stop posting here because it doesn't seem to be doing anything for you. From a Dharma perspective you seem to be causing others and yourself suffering. From a pragmatic perspective you seem really quick to get obsessive and angry and try and contact people in real life. You say a lot of things that are at odds with Buddhism, far more than are not at odds, actually. Every time people correct you or try and challenge you you get really cagey about how you arrive at that understanding. Anyone who has read this thread for a while should instantly recognize the points you're making as the same ones from when you were claiming to be an Arafat or claiming to have mastered advanced study in a weekend, causing you to butt heads with less enlightened teachers. The only thing that seems to have changed is you've realized straight up saying that is a bad idea. Maybe Buddhism is for you, but you definitely need to start as a beginner and not pretend you have this great depth of knowledge unique to your great practice. Part of that will be understanding that Buddhist are encouraged to trust doctors with matters of their health, and as long as you're avoiding clearly important medicine you won't have the right mind to peruse the Dharma. I'm not trying to be a troll here, I'm trying to be compassionate; the road you seem to want to go down, the road you inexplicably think you've already gone down, starts with getting your head right and throwing away these delusions of practice that have consumed you. Please, stop posting here and get the help you need.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 19:54
|
|
|
Tautologicus posted:You should just listen to the Bon guy. He's smiling, has a nice looking family, has written a lot of books with colorful covers and likely flowery, articulate prose. He's gotten a lot of titles and awards too. He'll put a nice spin on things for you. Thank you but that's not what I'm looking for.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 20:00
|
|
|
Please Tautologicus, for our sake as well as your's, hold back from posting here for a good long while. I appreciate the link, despite how overwhelmingly large it is. But we get it. Anyone who's been an earnest Buddhist will know that this path isn't always rosy, that confronting things like impermanence and suffering and the inevitability of death and the truth of loneliness are all very difficult, very painful, and very real things one has to deal with at some point. Not to mention, much of this path is uncovering self-deception on top of self-deception and that could mean working through some traumatic lie you've been telling yourself for years. Yes, we know that this isn't easy and can be extremely painful. And of course, if you get stuck at certain points reality can look very strange for a while if you don't push past it. However, the fourth mark of existence in certain traditions IS peace. Just because an author has pretty covers on his books and likes to smile here and there and might actually have his life together doesn't mean he's completely clueless or that he's trying to give you a sedative teaching rather than one that urges you to do some serious digging. You often seem to make the assumption here that every single one of us is just trying to puff ourselves up and are looking for an easy way out or for some swaddling. I don't know how much that might be the case for other posters, but that kind of blanket view towards everyone who isn't you is extremely unhelpful.
reversefungi fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Nov 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 20:03
|
|
|
Who are you Im guessing a woman by the attack:content ratio and other things. Mad about my wife comment for some reason? Dont lie.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 20:07
|
|
|
Tautologicus posted:Who are you Truly an Arahat.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 20:10
|
|
|
The Dark Wind posted:Please Tautologicus, for our sake as well as your's, hold back from posting here for a good long while. I appreciate the link, despite how overwhelmingly large it is. But we get it. Anyone who's been an earnest Buddhist will know that this path isn't always rosy, that confronting things like impermanence and suffering and the inevitability of death and the truth of loneliness are all very difficult, very painful, and very real things one has to deal with at some point. Not to mention, much of this path is uncovering self-deception on top of self-deception and that could mean working through some traumatic lie you've been telling yourself for years. Yes, we know that this isn't easy and can be extremely painful. And of course, if you get stuck at certain points reality can look very strange for a while if you don't push past it. However, the fourth mark of existence in certain traditions IS peace. Just because an author has pretty covers on his books and likes to smile here and there and might actually have his life together doesn't mean he's completely clueless or that he's trying to give you a sedative teaching rather than one that urges you to do some serious digging. You often seem to make the assumption here that every single one of us is just trying to puff ourselves up and are looking for an easy way out or for some swaddling. I don't know how much that might be the case for other posters, but that kind of blanket view towards everyone who isn't you is extremely unhelpful. Anything ive ever said is in the Heart Sutra. Good thing Prickly Pete just brought it up again.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 20:12
|
|
|
Mao Mix posted:Truly an Arahat. Am I wrong then..i know female when i see it. You mostly come off vindictive and..i dont really care why, i just want you to know that i know.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 20:14
|
|
|
Oh poo poo here we go 5000 posts incoming
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 20:25
|
|
|
Tautologicus posted:Am I wrong then..i know female when i see it. You mostly come off vindictive and..i dont really care why, i just want you to know that i know. Well at least you're still really, really creepy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 20:29
|
|
|
Tautologicus posted:Who are you Tautologicus posted:Am I wrong then..i know female when i see it. You mostly come off vindictive and..i dont really care why, i just want you to know that i know. OK, please stop.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 20:37
|
|
|
Mao Mix posted:Well at least you're still really, really creepy. Not that i minded, but what was digging 10 pages deep in my reddit history then. And i meant that i know that all shes trying to do is be vindictive..quit white knighting her the worst thing is fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Nov 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 20:44
|
|
|
Tautologicus posted:Not that i minded, but what was digging 10 pages deep in my reddit history then. I really have no interest in continuing a conversation with someone who uses the term white knighting in earnest or as a troll, especially in this thread, so I'm done.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 21:01
|
|
|
Look what you did mao mix
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 21:03
|
|
|
A lot of people stressin' up in here. Here, let me help.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 21:12
|
|
|
Pete will bring it back around
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 21:14
|
|
|
Ill do my part http://plumvillage.org/news/thich-nhat-hanh-new-heart-sutra-translation/ quote:
I like this one better http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/heartstr.htm
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 21:20
|
|
|
Everyone has asked you to stop posting. Please gently caress off. You're creepy and sexist and you've legitimately harassed people in this thread already. You don't post about Buddhism, you post your insane off-meds bullshit and then quote sutras. Please, go away and go back to the red pill or better yet get some help. Let's not pretend for half a second that typing your screen name into google and posting a few choice quotes from someone who claims to be an Arahat is even remotely the same as accusing people of white knighting me and how you can tell I'm a woman from behind the keyboard, or the huge rants about feminism, the fact that you got really creepy obsessive with someone in this thread, or that you think it's okay to go off your crazy pills and post about how you're an enlightened being. Mao Mix fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Nov 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 22:06
|
|
|
Tautoligicus is formally invited to FYAD. We like people like him, and people who hate women, do messed up stuff, etc. Please close the thread and bring Tautologigicus to his posting home, FYAD, the forum for cool misogynists and antisemites (yes, we're buddhist).
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 22:16
|
|
|
We have a private buddhist/national socialist sutra combo thread if The Tauts accepts our invitation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 22:25
|
|
|
Mao Mix posted:Everyone has asked you to stop posting. Please gently caress off. On the contrary, I think Tautologicus is cool and I want him to continue posting, and to gently caress on.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 22:42
|
|
|
Prickly Pete posted:I've been slowly getting back into sutta study over the past few weeks. During my last round of reading I was interested in the idea of emptiness, and how it differs in Theravada and Mahayana. Bhikkhu Bodhi released a very timely sutta study video about the Mahāsuññata Sutta, which is (I think) the main treatment of emptiness in the Pali texts. Hey Pete ! The best translation of the heart sutra is Red Pine's (http://www.amazon.com/The-Heart-Sutra-Red-Pine/dp/1593760825). Yeah, the guy's called "Red Pine". The translation is really good and the commentaries are spot on. The Thich Nhat Han book on the heart sutra is beautiful and is a good introduction, but it sort of misses the point about emptiness because it links it to the inderpendance of things, which is not really a view based on emptiness. If you're interested in emptiness, you should really listen to the series of talks about Nagarjuna by John Dunne. The podcasts are available for free at Upaya Zen Center's website. It's called "Revealing Nagarjuna", and it really goes into things in detail. Available here : http://www.upaya.org/2013/08/revealing-nagarjuna-series-all-12-parts/. You can also read Nagarjuna's work while listening to John Dunne's podcasts, it is great, even if Nagarjuna is a really hard read (philosophically and emotionnally - it literally obliterates your logical mind, using logic, which is sometimes quite uncomfortable). But no one explains emptiness better than Nagarjuna in my little experience. Not that anyone can understand it, though, ahah ! I think it's best to read and listen to this stuff while having a regular daily practice and knowing how to put your mind at rest, because it really is quite an intense thinking / reading experience. At least for me it was, i spent a few days questioning everything and zazen helped a lot to just let this mess sort itself. But i'm a kind of an obsessive thinker, so maybe if you're more relax you will just have a good time. I did, but it was hard at the same time. The thing to remember is that Nagarjuna's work on emptiness is really made to create confusion and to shake your view of the world and make you taste what emptiness is, so be "prepared". Ugrok fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Nov 29, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 23:43
|
|
|
I'd also throw in, for things to check out on emptiness, anything by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche. His Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness is a classic and will leave your mind feeling very funny after reading it. I'd imagine this is one of those texts you could take on a decade long retreat and still only scratch the surface. It's one of the most clearly explained texts on how emptiness relates to a meditator's experience. A friend of mine has also recommended "Sun of Wisdom" which is a book full of KTGR's teachings on Nagarjuna's Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way. I haven't read it but I feel like you could not go wrong with giving it a look.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2014 00:11
|
|
|
Ugrok posted:The translation is really good and the commentaries are spot on. The Thich Nhat Han book on the heart sutra is beautiful and is a good introduction, but it sort of misses the point about emptiness because it links it to the inderpendance of things, which is not really a view based on emptiness. I disagree with this, and I think the essence of Nagarjuna, especially in one of his most important works, the Fundamental Treatise on the Middle Way, teaches that interdependent origination and emptiness are very much interrelated. It is because of Two Truths doctrine that we can have the arising of phenomenon which are real on a sort of basic level, but ultimately empty. Things arising but devoid of nature provide the dual truth of appearance and emptiness, and this is an important thing. One of my favorite things about Nagarjuna is that the Fundamental Treatise on the Middle Way is very thorough in its logical deconstruction of things as we perceive them. He's very thorough about it. I am kind of surprised to find any discussion of the Prajnaparamita / Heart Sutra in a Theravadan context however, I was under the impression it was only Mahayana canon.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2014 00:31
|
|
|
Paramemetic posted:I disagree with this, and I think the essence of Nagarjuna, especially in one of his most important works, the Fundamental Treatise on the Middle Way, teaches that interdependent origination and emptiness are very much interrelated. It is because of Two Truths doctrine that we can have the arising of phenomenon which are real on a sort of basic level, but ultimately empty. Things arising but devoid of nature provide the dual truth of appearance and emptiness, and this is an important thing. It isn't a canonical Theravada text, I was just asking for my own curiosity. The idea of emptiness in general doesn't tend to come up much in Theravada. When it does come up, it is often translated as "voidness", and is usually just discussed as an extension of anatta, from what I have seen. However, I just recently picked up The Heartwood of the Bodhi Tree and then saw the above-mentioned Bodhi lecture, so I became interested all over again.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2014 01:11
|
|
|
Ah, okay. I didn't think there was a lot of emptiness in Theravada so I was a bit confused.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2014 02:35
|
|
|
From what I have seen, it usually comes up in terms of describing the aggregates as lacking any kind of self, and therefore being empty or void of self. I feel like Mahayana has a much more elaborate treatment of the issue. I was mainly interested in the Heart Sutra in terms of its relation to the Maha-suññata Sutta. The idea of parallel sutras between the schools is really interesting to me. .
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2014 02:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 16:16 |
|
|
Despite having him on ignore, I have been piecing together what our ol pal OCHS has been spewing in this thread from people's quotes. I would recommend everyone to set him to ignore so he goes away again. He needs help but it's clear after three long and painful episodes in this thread, he won't get the help he needs. For those who think he's interesting, let me sum up: - He openly advocated in the past that people taking medication to help them avoid depression stop taking it because "its all the mind, mannnnn", the power of meditation and positive thinking is all you need. He doesn't consider that maybe the clear thinking brought about by meditation would lead you to medicine to help you but hey, the thought processing only goes so deep with this guy - He openly hates women. That should be enough to shun him right there but in case you still find him "interesting".... - He openly states he is enlightened while displaying the most un-enlightened. confused, muddled thinking ever dumped in this thread. - He doesn't read and attempt to understand what people are asking when they try to dig into what he says. He will either attack or divert when proven wrong. It is a vicious cycle which people feed because they are trying to be nice. Enough's enough. It's really not helpful to anyone, including him, for him to post here. I get that we want to help people and be kind but maybe the best way to be kind to this guy (who is obviously in a lot of mental pain), is to tell him to get some help and then ignore him until he goes away. He feeds off of the attention and I'd suggest not giving it to him, for his sake, if not for the sakes of people who come here with legitimate questions looking for non-batshit answers. Sorry we're going through this again.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2014 14:23
|
|
