|
Yeah, these books are great. I wish I had read them sooner. It's like a lot of the good things about GRRM without all the bullshit padding, crap POV's, and food descriptions of the latter two books. Sure the world building suffers a bit from the fast pace and lack of filler, but I think it's real refreshing that with every next chapter I can look forward to the story moving along in some capacity. I don't need every fantasy book to have a super in depth world described to me, having a series that doesn't fret so much about describing the world and just focusing on the characters is a great change of pace for once. As a result the book is always entertaining, there isn't a dull POV or story line, poo poo moves at a brisk but not too brisk pace, and there isn't a character I hate that I'm not supposed to hate. One thing that is confusing to me is how people say how grimdark and awful Abercrombie treats his characters, compared to GRRM even. I'm 2/3 through Before They Are Hanged and I just don't see that at all yet. Sure, it's not happy times for everyone, but there hasn't really been terrible shockingly unjust poo poo happening left and right like people made me believe happens in this series. Maybe all the terrible poo poo that will make me want to cry is saved for the last book in the trilogy? Either way it doesn't matter, it's grimdark and realistic enough for me already. God drat I love the Northern Gang so much. I wish there was a book just about them, and Logen reunited with them as well. Just going around the north kicking rear end, talking poo poo to each other and to sissy southerners, and being awesome in general. At the least, I really hope that Logen and his buddies get to see each other and realize they aren't dead by the end of this series. Also, I am so looking forward to the inevitable fight between Bloody-Nine and The Feared. I mean, I have absolutely no reason or evidence to think that is going to happen so far, what with them at opposite sides of the world and all, but I mean it just has to happen right? They are the two most bad rear end dudes in the book, they just HAVE to meet for an epic duel. That's just too awesome of a thing not to happen, right? Damo fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Nov 25, 2014 |
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 06:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 19:01 |
|
|
Just keep reading, man. Keep reading.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 06:33
|
|
|
Damo posted:Yeah, these books are great. I wish I had read them sooner. Just make sure you stay out of the thread until you finish the trilogy. Theres a lot of moments you definitely don't want to be spoiled for you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 15:47
|
|
|
You are in for an awesome ride. Wheeeee
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 15:50
|
|
|
Although I would love Damo to continue to post reactions/speculation at the end of each of the trilogy or so, just cause it's an awesome ride and I want to relive it vicariously.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2014 03:21
|
|
|
Yeah, I remember when I was first making my way through the First Law trilogy I generally avoided this thread like the plague. But there were a few moments that were just so jaw-droppingly awesome I *had* to tell someone that understood what I was flipping out about.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2014 05:00
|
|
|
OK well I just finished Before They Are Hanged. This is probably going to read a bit stream of consciousness and I apologize for that, but here are some random thoughts. Pretty awesome that the entire journey to get the Seed was (seemingly) all for naught. I almost expected the seed to pop out of the rock after Bayaz threw it and it broke apart, but nope, all that bullshit they went through, for nothing. That is really awesome. 13 year old me would have been pretty upset that their whole book two journey was a apparently a waste of time, but 30 year old me thinks it's really great for some reason. On top of that it seems like they are just going to go their separate ways? I don't mind them not finding the Seed in theory, but I wonder if by the end of book three the journey will really end up having been completely pointless. I mean, there was some character development. Jezal learned some valuable lessons at least. Maybe Ferro did, but she's too hard headed to accept them. Bayaz seems on the verge of death after using magic too many times, and more and more seems like he ain't a good guy. Logen is just his normal "well life sucks, nothing new, you've got to be realistic about these things" self. Longfoot is still Longfoot. Quai seems like he just doesn't give a poo poo about anything anymore, least of all Bayaz. Before the seed was discovered to just be a rock I half expected him to betray Bayaz somehow. He seems to really despise the dude now. But, obviously that wasn't possible. I'm interested to see how he will end up loving Bayaz over in the end though. Speaking of Bayaz, I wonder what the hell is up with him. He certainly doesn't seem like a clear cut good guy. I wonder if Abercrombie is gonna pull a switcharoo on him and make him out to be the ultimate bad wizard guy, although it would seem hard to outdo Khalul and his cannibal gang in that capacity. Still though, I doubt he is completely noble. Too little evidence so far to guess what he's up to, but considering that Eater that tried to kill Glokta claims Bayaz killed Juvens, and nearly every other Magi person besides Yulwei seeming to despise him, obviously there is some poo poo going on with him that he is hiding. Glokta's story was all right, but it did seem to end up being pointless as well. Seems to be the theme of the book, a whole lot of effort expended by everyone to end up back at the status quo. He didn't save the city, as expected, and he's too hard headed to accept much of the evidence of magical poo poo going down with Khalul, so what really was the point? I guess it was good for Sult and the inquisition's power, but that ended up disintegrating after Reynaults murder. Now the benefit from Glokta's Ghurkish adventures are completely gone. Again, back to square one, the whole of Glokta's efforts amounting to nothing, except that he's completely owned by the Bank dudes now. He does seem like he's still going to dig at the truth, but with the bank having him by the balls, and his own apathy at the world in general, will he really end up accomplishing anything? West killing Ladisla was one of the best moments of the book, although it seems to be eating him up inside. I don't think things are going to end well for West, which sucks, because he is one of the few Union dudes who isn't a complete piece of poo poo. Oh, and the northern Gang. RIP Threetrees  . I loved that guy. Hell, I love all those guys, but I knew at least one of them was gonna die in the battle with Bethod, especially when The Feared showed up. Totally knew Dogman was gonna become chief though, like Tul and Dow said, it's the only thing that made sense. Grim's eulogy was touching, and was the inevitable payoff of the "guy who doesn't talk much but then surprises everyone by talking at a critical moment" trope . Those barbarian dudes can sure be pretty touching when they try to. Like everyone else, the northern gang is pretty much not any better off than they were at the start of the story. Again, seems to be the theme.So, yeah, I'm left really wondering mostly what is going to become of Bayaz and his crew. Are they really just going to go their separate ways? If so, how is Bayaz going to accomplish...whatever the gently caress he's trying, without the seed and without his magic people Logen and Ferro? What the hell is Ferro going to accomplish besides dying by going back home? Logen at least I can look forward to returning to the north and loving poo poo up. Jezal I worry is just going to fall back into being a complete oval office once he gets back to the comforts of Adua, although I guess him bearing those scars and wounds will be a physical restriction and reminder to not be a cock, so who knows. Still I wonder what his arc is going end up as. It always seemed like Bayaz was grooming him for leadership, what with the constant talks with him about what makes a good King. Will he end up ruling Adua through some weird twist of fate? Was that what Bayaz wanted all along? To start up a new Empire, reforming Adua into what he thinks it should be? Still looking forward to the Bloody-Nine fighting the Feared. That is totally going to happen and be awesome. I just hope he doesn't die. Say one thing for Logen Ninefingers, say that he's one of the coolest fantasy characters I've ever gotten the pleasure to know. Oh and that reminds me, I really liked how Logen got cut off in the midst of saying both his "say one thing" and "you've got to be realistic" catchphrases during his last chapter. Got a chuckle out of me. One more thing about Logen, a thing I'm not looking forward to. The uncontrollable nature of his Bloody-Nine persona is so obviously going to backfire at some point. There is no way the author would set up the fact that he's an uncontrollable madman when he's transformed without having it end up that he kills someone he doesn't want to at some point. Bloody-Nine is so totally going to do something utterly terrible that Logen would never, ever choose to do and I am really worried about what that is going to be. Poor Logen. Poor everyone in the loving book, poo poo doesn't look like it's going to end well for anyone. I have a sinking suspicion that the next book is going to be seriously hosed up for everyone involved. So many questions. What the gently caress is going on in this series? poo poo seems to be going nowhere? I love it. Sorry again for the rambling nature of my post. I could probably say more, and in a more ordered way, if I put more effort into the post, but I want to get started on Last Argument of Kings. Damo fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Nov 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2014 06:47
|
|
|
I'm about 40 pages ahead of you, and I think we're on the same page  Threetrees dying was the worst
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2014 13:39
|
|
|
 Please, please, please post as you read through Last Argument of Kings. I cannot wait to see both of your reactions, because that one is loving fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2014 21:36
|
|
|
Damo posted:Poor everyone in the loving book, poo poo doesn't look like it's going to end well for anyone. I have a sinking suspicion that the next book is going to be seriously hosed up for everyone involved. Well, not everyone. I agree, keep posting.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2014 22:42
|
|
|
Poulder and Kroy are the worst. It's easy to hate a lot of people in this book, but Abercrombie seems to have a serious hard-on for making those two the most detestable lackwits in the entire series. Collem 'Furious' West has been one of the best dudes in the book so far and, forgive me for waxing philosophical, I think he represents the most realistic and logical "everyman". He does the best he can with what he's given (military officer despite low-birth, rough childhood, babysitting Ladisla while simultaneously not dying in the North during the winter). If there's a Mary Sue in the book, it might be him.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 19:16
|
|
|
robotsinmyhead posted:Poulder and Kroy are the worst. It's easy to hate a lot of people in this book, but Abercrombie seems to have a serious hard-on for making those two the most detestable lackwits in the entire series. Heh.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2014 22:43
|
|
|
Poulder and Kroy felt like really lovely one dimensional characters in those books to be honest. They stuck out because of how cliched and poorly fleshed out their animosity was. Heroes spoilers: Kroy gets better, though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2014 00:59
|
|
|
Damo posted: SavTargaryen posted:
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2014 03:45
|
|
|
robotsinmyhead posted:Poulder and Kroy are the worst. It's easy to hate a lot of people in this book, but Abercrombie seems to have a serious hard-on for making those two the most detestable lackwits in the entire series. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2014 03:48
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:West is pretty hosed up in the head. If beating the hell out of your sister is the most realistic and logical version of the everyman to you, welp. sure troll it up pal
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2014 05:26
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:West is pretty hosed up in the head. If beating the hell out of your sister is the most realistic and logical version of the everyman to you, welp. It's realistic in that he comes from a household of childhood violence and it comes through in his adult life, just like it does for real people, all the time. You left out the part where he felt sickeningly bad about it and basically ran off - and that event haunts him for a long time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2014 14:45
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:West is pretty hosed up in the head. If beating the hell out of your sister is the most realistic and logical version of the everyman to you, welp. Did he actually "beat the hell" out of her though? As I recall he smacked her once before walking away and felt pretty horrible about it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2014 01:29
|
|
|
He punched her in the face, then started choking her against a wall. Way worse than a slap.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2014 04:37
|
|
|
There's no question that what he did was incredibly vile. But the thing is, he knows what he did was horrible and pretty much spends the rest of his life hating himself for it. Meanwhile, he goes on to be one of the only honorable men in the entire Union. I hated West after what he did to Ardee in the first book. And then he went on to become one of my favorite characters through his later actions. Similarly, I hated Jezel in the first book and then ended up liking him very much by the end. I don't think it's fair at all drat West entirely just so he fits into the "no noble characters" mold. Abercrombie's world is a very ugly place; but that doesn't mean it's devoid entirely of flashes of humanity. West makes some bad mistakes. But his later actions also show that he's not an evil man. People can be abusive assholes, realize it, and try to become better people. West wracks himself with guilt while continuing to guide himself by his world and his honor. You can say that he is a good person without excusing the lovely way he treated Ardee. Unless I am forgetting something, I've always considered West to be among the tiny handful of good/honorable people in the First Law world.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2014 05:17
|
|
|
Yeah West beating up Ardee was pretty horrible but over the course of the books he was on the path of redemption and even learning to mediate his furious temper. Then he dies a completely pointless death of fantasy radiation poisoning because Joe Abercrombie is a spiteful bastard. Even then he still ends up a lot better than the other main characters in that Ardee and Jezal mourn his death and by the time of The Heroes he's remembered fondly as a great, if short-lived, general. I'd even bet that his ethics rubbed off on Kroy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 30, 2014 21:56
|
|
|
If you punch someone hard enough that their voice slurs for a couple days afterward, that's a bit of a higher level than "only hit her once," imho. I never really saw him as learning to control his temper, he just went somewhere and start to hang out with people who considered being a rabid remorseless killer was just the normal way to be, maybe I'm misremembering..? I suspected he'd go native and never want or be able to return home anyway after killing the sniveler, but the death was pretty weak imho.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 15:42
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:If you punch someone hard enough that their voice slurs for a couple days afterward, that's a bit of a higher level than "only hit her once," imho. Pretty sure that was due to her being drunk. The swelling/bruising was punch-based, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2014 16:15
|
|
|
Well, since that  is settled(?), I'm still reading!The Northmen have holed-up in Crummock's High Places Happy Time Fortress. Crummock's daughter is a goddamn riot on her own, despite her relative lack of lines, hauling that giant hammer around and swearing at everyone cuts a pretty hilarious mental image. West double-blinds Kroy and Poulder to get their poo poo together, which was awesome to see. The first wave in the fight with the Shanka was pretty lazy, I thought. Logen talks them up having killed his family and messed the North up pretty hard, but when it comes down to it, they saw through a massive wave of them fairly easily. I am realizing, of course, that the Shanka aren't good at self-preservation, and throwing themselves against a wall (even a pile of turds wall like this one) is kinda suicidal, but the Northmen absolutely trounce them - Logen even notes that he'd never seen "half so many in one place before". For allegedly being an existential threat, I am disappoint. I'm guessing that's gonna change.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2014 13:40
|
|
|
tweekinator posted:Pretty sure that was due to her being drunk. The swelling/bruising was punch-based, though. She didn't spend any time slurring all the other times when she was drunk (read: nearly every hour of every day of her life.) Slurring of speech is a very common symptom of someone suffering from a pretty good concussion, it's happened to me before.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 00:06
|
|
|
I don't really think the path to reconciling West's moment of violence against his sister with his other, generally positive, character traits lies down the road of "well he didn't hit her that hard".
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 04:31
|
|
|
I finished Last Argument of Kings last night. I don't really even know what to say about it right now. Still processing. When he writes "no one gets what they deserve" boy did he mean it. At least that means one person got a happy-ish ending, even if he probably deserved it the least _____Glokta_____. It was good though. Every fantasy reader should read this trilogy for sure. I'm going to miss reading about Logen and Glokta so much. Damo fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Dec 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 08:06
|
|
|
I'd be interested to hear your fuller thoughts once you've processed it. Also, you've got another three books in the same setting (and with plenty of returning characters as well as new ones) to get through!
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 11:48
|
|
|
coyo7e posted:She didn't spend any time slurring all the other times when she was drunk (read: nearly every hour of every day of her life.) She didn't? That would be a really interesting detail I missed. Thanks for pointing it out, I never caught that she only slurred right after being punched in the face.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 13:25
|
|
|
I read as she was getting extra super drunk due to emotional trauma. But, the concussion angle also makes a lot of sense. Even a small concussion would be exacerbated by drinking.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 19:33
|
|
|
So has there been any word on the promised second trilogy from Abercrombie? Last book that took place in the 'Crombieverse (what do we actually call the setting? The Circle of the World?) was Red Country, right? Is he still writing that young adult series?
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
Falstaff Infection posted:So has there been any word on the promised second trilogy from Abercrombie? Last book that took place in the 'Crombieverse (what do we actually call the setting? The Circle of the World?) was Red Country, right? Is he still writing that young adult series? Yeah, as far as I know he's still working on the last young adult book. He says he wants a rough draft of the whole next trilogy before he publishes the first one, and estimates 2017 for a release. http://www.joeabercrombie.com/2013/12/02/progress-report-december-13/
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2014 23:33
|
|
|
I'll bet it still gets published before Winds of Winter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2014 00:10
|
|
|
packsmack posted:I read as she was getting extra super drunk due to emotional trauma. But, the concussion angle also makes a lot of sense. Even a small concussion would be exacerbated by drinking. I may be entirely wrong however, if you've taken a beating that harsh or been in a nasty automobile accident etc, that's a very :wince: scene. The most unrealistic part of the scene from THAT reading would be that she can stand up and function at all after getting a good buzz on, because yeah, they really do exacerbate each other. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Dec 4, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2014 05:45
|
|
|
About halfway through Book 3, The Bloody-Nine just killed The Feared, which was  as gently caress, but his talk with Bethod about how Logen was pretty much the entire problem in the first place and how he comes to realize it and take some minor measure of (at the very least) internal personal responsibility for it all was pretty amazing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2014 16:11
|
|
|
robotsinmyhead posted:The first wave in the fight with the Shanka was pretty lazy, I thought. Logen talks them up having killed his family and messed the North up pretty hard, but when it comes down to it, they saw through a massive wave of them fairly easily. I am realizing, of course, that the Shanka aren't good at self-preservation, and throwing themselves against a wall (even a pile of turds wall like this one) is kinda suicidal, but the Northmen absolutely trounce them - Logen even notes that he'd never seen "half so many in one place before". For allegedly being an existential threat, I am disappoint. It's mentioned specifically in that chapter that it's entirely out of character for Shanka to zerg a defended wall like that. They're described as being more prone to ambush situations, and under normal circumstances they have a sense of self-preservation. Attacking small villages in the night is a far cry from taking on a fort filled with about 800 battle-hardened warriors who can see you coming. I think it's implied that 800 people in one place is a pretty impressive gathering by northern standards, much less a gathering composed entirely of fighting men.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2014 22:52
|
|
|
robotsinmyhead posted:About halfway through Book 3, The Bloody-Nine just killed The Feared, which was Keep going! And post your thoughts after you finish. The third book is one of my favorite endings to a trilogy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2014 19:42
|
|
|
Damo posted:I finished Last Argument of Kings last night. I don't really even know what to say about it right now. Still processing. When he writes "no one gets what they deserve" boy did he mean it. At least that means one person got a happy-ish ending, even if he probably deserved it the least _____Glokta_____. Bayaz deserves his happy ending less. Although he did work pretty hard for it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2014 20:13
|
|
|
70ish pages to go. Bayaz does his GRAND REVEAL to Glokta. A bit of ageless social commentary, but it makes sense in the grand scheme of things and brings a lot of Bayaz's odd behavior in the previous books to light. I gotta say, I really like the way Logen's story is playing out at this point. He's distanced himself from the rest of the Northmen (for the own protection?) after nearly killing Dogman and you start to understand how sad his story really is. Grim dying was really  and his final words were exceptionally well written.Abercrombie has done a great job really diving into the "horrors of war" aspect in this book. I should finish it by the end of the day, and Amazon was kind enough to deliver Best Served Cold right on time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2014 17:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 19:01 |
|
|
I'm about to finish up Red Country. Can anyone recommend me a series in a similar vein to read next while I wait for Winds of Winter  ?I liked First Law, loved BSC, wasn't to keen on The Heroes though I'm not sure why since I love war movies, and really liked Red Country as well.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2014 03:43
|
|
