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General Battuta posted:In what sense? It felt like a fair portrait of a capitalist society viewed through the eyes of someone from a society specifically built to eschew its weaknesses and devalue its strengths. It is difficult to remember a single positive quality of the capitalist society. It is rife with the familiar vices of racism, sexism and classism, which is fair enough. But the book also implies (from my recollection, anyway, it's been several years) that the wealth and affluence of the capitalist society is premised entirely on their endowment of natural resources and the exploitation of the poor, while the anarchist society is morally superior as a society free of sexual repression, class politics or anything of that nature. Not that I'm implying the anarchist society is depicted as flawless, given acts such as repressing thinker types and the murder of the pilot in the opening scene, but it still seems pretty imbalanced on the whole. I suppose you could say the capitalist society at least allows for the recognition of Shevek's contributions... thehomemaster posted:This is class. Love a good ruffling of a conservative's feathers. Ah, yes, dance conservatives, lol! gently caress off back to D&D.
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Nov 24, 2014 12:00
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Speaking of The Dispossessed, this just happened: http://www.portlandmonthlymag.com/a...s-november-2014
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Nov 24, 2014 15:12
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Does City of Stairs pick up? I'm like 40% through or something and never feel like reading it. The characters are kind of boring to me and the world building is good, I agree, but the execution of it is off to me somehow.
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Nov 24, 2014 17:13
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Neurosis posted:Ah, yes, dance conservatives, lol! gently caress off back to D&D. to be fair, any time you seem to feel the need to preface a post with "AS AN ECONOMIST" it ends with you whining about how some liberal author hurt your feelings, so if somebody is getting some enjoyment out of it good for him because the rest of us aren't.
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Nov 24, 2014 17:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Speaking of The Dispossessed, this just happened: I saw the "Ursula le Guin burns d" bit of the url and was terribly disappointed. Neurosis posted:But the book also implies (from my recollection, anyway, it's been several years) that the wealth and affluence of the capitalist society is premised entirely on their endowment of natural resources and the exploitation of the poor Well, yeah. quote:while the anarchist society is morally superior as a society free of sexual repression, class politics or anything of that nature. It isn't though. For instance there's a scene where Shevek meets an old friend (or something) and offers to gently caress him to reaffirm their friendship, even though Shevek is mostly straight and his friend mostly gay. The friend says no, but the point is the culture can pressure people into unwanted sex as much as any other. On thinking about this it reads like a potshot at Delany. Also there may have been no explicit class politics but I got the impression there was an "old boys' network" which isn't too different. quote:Not that I'm implying the anarchist society is depicted as flawless, given acts such as repressing thinker types and the murder of the pilot in the opening scene, but it still seems pretty imbalanced on the whole. I suppose you could say the capitalist society at least allows for the recognition of Shevek's contributions... These are two big things. First, Urras offers individual recognition and lacks the thought police telling Shevek off for talking about his own personality too much. Isn't this an enormous benefit to, theoretically, anyone in the culture? Second, recognising Shevek's contributions is partly a moral advantage over Annarres so far as technology improves peoples' lives, and is incompatible with saying that a capitalist society only does well because it exploits the poor. Neurosis posted:Her casual dismissal of Western economics and dispute resolution is laughably facile. Her straw manning of capitalism is equally absurd. Couldn't you equally say though that the dismissal of anarchism on the grounds of "tall poppy syndrome lol" is also laughably facile? Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's perfect, but it's hardly an anarchist screed. If anything you could see it as coming down on the side of "human nature being fixed".
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Nov 24, 2014 17:17
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Neurosis posted:It is difficult to remember a single positive quality of the capitalist society. It is rife with the familiar vices of racism, sexism and classism, which is fair enough. But the book also implies (from my recollection, anyway, it's been several years) that the wealth and affluence of the capitalist society is premised entirely on their endowment of natural resources and the exploitation of the poor, while the anarchist society is morally superior as a society free of sexual repression, class politics or anything of that nature. I do see where you're coming from, but I think you're maybe forgetting how poorly the anarchist society is portrayed in many places. Shevek's own desires, little things like being with his wife and newborn child, are completely subordinated to what is good for the whole. There is no profit motive enslaving him, but something else just as strong. There's one (or more?) sections talking about, well, of course you don't have to work for the good of the people, you can go live off on your own and be shunned completely, you're absolutely "free" to do that. And if you're living among people, you're always going to be subject to aggression and dominance, no matter what is supposed to happen (Shevek's efforts at publishing, for example). Don't forget the people literally driven insane (or treated as insane? my memory is hazy) for daring to pursue something that doesn't conform with the groupthink, too. But obviously Le Guin does have a preference between the two. In one, bodily suffering (war, poverty, etc) is for the benefit of a few at the top, while in the other suffering (starvation, manual labor, separation and dislocation, etc) really is for the benefit of all. That is an idealistic take on it, of course, but it's very different from saying capitalism is hell and anarchism/communalism is heaven. It's all terrible, it's just a matter of making the best of the terribleness.
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Nov 24, 2014 17:41
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systran posted:Does City of Stairs pick up? I'm like 40% through or something and never feel like reading it. The characters are kind of boring to me and the world building is good, I agree, but the execution of it is off to me somehow. Yes, it does. At a certain moment most of the pieces just fit and the pace of the history becomes frantic. But don't expect to find a Helm's deep style battle.
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Nov 24, 2014 17:41
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Thanks. I'm not expecting or hoping for some giant battle, mostly just hoping for more character development or something to make me really care about the protagonist especially.
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Nov 24, 2014 17:44
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Some good posts above on The Dispossessed. I had forgotten some of the nuances of the anarchist society, which do balance things out a little, though I'm not sure I agree with some of the evaluations offered. For example, I do remember Shevek offering to sleep with that guy as an affirmation of friendship (I thought he actually did sleep with him) but my recollection was that this felt more like an exemplar of anarchist moral superiority - sex was no longer a commodity or used as a means of manipulation as shown in the capitalist society. Also, the accordance with the anarchist communes seemed to me to be depicted as something that was necessary for survival given the scarce resources, so being a dissident was actually depicted as being morally wrong on a different level from merely selfish. andrew smash posted:to be fair, any time you seem to feel the need to preface a post with "AS AN ECONOMIST" it ends with you whining about how some liberal author hurt your feelings, so if somebody is getting some enjoyment out of it good for him because the rest of us aren't. I honestly don't remember mentioning my background in any context other than when discussing this book (maybe when discussing Felix Gilman's and Max Gladstone's books?), and I mention it because I think it goes a long way to explaining why the tone of the book rubbed me the wrong way.
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Nov 24, 2014 17:51
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systran posted:Thanks. I'm not expecting or hoping for some giant battle, mostly just hoping for more character development or something to make me really care about the protagonist especially. Hold out until you meet the knuckle man - you oughtta be close, and that's the point where the book really starts to take off. If you're already past him, the book probably isn't for you.
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Nov 24, 2014 18:35
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Neurosis posted:It is difficult to remember a single positive quality of the capitalist society. It is rife with the familiar vices of racism, sexism and classism, which is fair enough. But the book also implies (from my recollection, anyway, it's been several years) that the wealth and affluence of the capitalist society is premised entirely on their endowment of natural resources and the exploitation of the poor, while the anarchist society is morally superior as a society free of sexual repression, class politics or anything of that nature. #notallcapitalistsocieties
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Nov 24, 2014 21:05
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Clark Nova posted:Hold out until you meet the knuckle man - you oughtta be close, and that's the point where the book really starts to take off. If you're already past him, the book probably isn't for you. Very fair analysis. I had the book for a while and got through a bit, but then brought it on a road trip and managed to finish it off before the end of the trip. I was left with a very good feeling of both thinking the book and story were a perfect encapsulation of a complete story and very much wanting it to not be over.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:45
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Just started The Martian as an audio book to listen to while I run. It's fantastic and the narrator is excellent. I felt pulled in with the first line. Highly recommend it, particular in audio format, which works really well since it's a solo character and the story is told entirely via journal entries.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:48
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Well, not entirely. But mostly. And yeah it was good. Looking forward to the movie: Matt Damon Alone In Space 2!
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Nov 25, 2014 01:03
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bonds0097 posted:Just started The Martian as an audio book to listen to while I run. It's fantastic and the narrator is excellent. I felt pulled in with the first line. Highly recommend it, particular in audio format, which works really well since it's a solo character and the story is told entirely via journal entries. I couldn't get through the audiobook cause they read like 3-minute long stings and tables of numbers out loud. I listen at the gym on an iPhone so skipping that poo poo without skipping too much is a huge chore
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Nov 25, 2014 01:26
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Amberskin posted:I was in your position some weeks ago and I went for City of Stairs (http://www.amazon.com/City-Stairs-Robert-Jackson-Bennett-ebook/dp/B00J1ISJFA). Definitely not LOTR-style, with a light steampunk aroma. I enjoyed it a lot. Yeah this is on my list thanks to this thread. I'll probably start it soon-ish. I still need to finish The King's Blood since I spent all weekend watching bad sci-fi movies. I should be able to breeze through it tonight, providing I don't fall asleep mid-read again.
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Nov 25, 2014 01:54
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systran posted:I couldn't get through the audiobook cause they read like 3-minute long stings and tables of numbers out loud. I listen at the gym on an iPhone so skipping that poo poo without skipping too much is a huge chore Oh. Well, as an engineer myself, I'm actually pretty enthralled by the numbers. EDIT: In contrast, I just finished the audio version of "No Place to Hide" and the middle third of that books drove me a bit nuts because the narrator read every heading to every leaked memo.
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Nov 25, 2014 04:19
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Are Gladstone's other books any good? Notes from the Internet Apocalypse was really lovely (well, for me anyway). Then there was this  I mean don't get me wrong, if Patton Oswalat likes it, it must be good. And I do want to be a ''good reader'' and not one of those lovely readers.
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Nov 25, 2014 04:35
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ravenkult posted:Are Gladstone's other books any good? Notes from the Internet Apocalypse was really lovely (well, for me anyway). I love badly behaved author drama, so could you give some context on this? Is that from your facebook or was the screenshot posted online somewhere? How did the author even find that post in order to reply to it? What other poo poo has Gladstone pulled?
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Nov 25, 2014 04:52
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drat did that dude get published without ever getting their poo poo critted?
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Nov 25, 2014 04:54
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Hedrigall posted:I love badly behaved author drama, so could you give some context on this? Is that from your facebook or was the screenshot posted online somewhere? How did the author even find that post in order to reply to it? What other poo poo has Gladstone pulled? It's my facebook, yeah. I have a lot of writers on there because I run a micropress. I'm not in any of the comments though, except for the last one. The context is what you see, really. My buddy bought some books, and the first commenter in the screenshot said Notes was terrible. Gladstone's outburst was provoked by that single comment.
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Nov 25, 2014 05:04
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I just finished both of the Raven's Shadow books out Blood Song & The Tower Lord. They were pretty good. For anyone else that has read them, do you feel the same way I do about them though? Spoilers: I really enjoyed all the writing and the characters and the poo poo that was happening but for some reason I just could not get moved by any deaths or tragedies or whatever. Something about how its written, I dunno. Anyone else feel the same way?
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Nov 25, 2014 05:20
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Haha, so there's a Max Gladstone and a Wayne Gladstone?
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Nov 25, 2014 05:32
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ravenkult posted:It's my facebook, yeah. I have a lot of writers on there because I run a micropress. I'm not in any of the comments though, except for the last one. I swear i've seen that picture, have you posted it here before?
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Nov 25, 2014 07:00
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Yea, I've either seen it before or he's done that poo poo more than once. Mainly because I felt incredibly dumb for wondering wtf Glad Stone was and why he was gettin so mad at internet people before I realized he wrote the book 
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Nov 25, 2014 07:33
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General Battuta posted:Haha, so there's a Max Gladstone and a Wayne Gladstone? Yeah, I was confused for a moment as well. Max Gladstone remains in the clear.
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Nov 25, 2014 08:02
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Max is great. He wrote a short Halloween story about Dracula's dadhood and it's really good.
Megazver fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Nov 25, 2014 |
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Nov 25, 2014 10:17
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andrew smash posted:I swear i've seen that picture, have you posted it here before? Yeah, back when it first happened.
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Nov 25, 2014 10:43
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I hope if we keep talking about how much Wayne Gladstone sucks, he'll register an account to come in here and yell at us 
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Nov 25, 2014 11:58
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Wayne Gladstone sounds like a huge douche and I'll be he writes like one too (now's the part where he appears).
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Nov 25, 2014 16:04
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Wayne Gladstone Wayne Gladstone Wayne Gladstone 
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Nov 25, 2014 16:22
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Neurosis posted:Some good posts above on The Dispossessed. I had forgotten some of the nuances of the anarchist society, which do balance things out a little, though I'm not sure I agree with some of the evaluations offered. For example, I do remember Shevek offering to sleep with that guy as an affirmation of friendship (I thought he actually did sleep with him) but my recollection was that this felt more like an exemplar of anarchist moral superiority - sex was no longer a commodity or used as a means of manipulation as shown in the capitalist society. I don't have a copy handy but I was making the opposite point - not that the sex was manipulative itself but that someone could easily be coerced/shamed/socially pressured into doing something they didn't want to do. Sex being a commodity isn't the only wrong way to think about it, I think, and nor is it one that will easily go away. quote:Also, the accordance with the anarchist communes seemed to me to be depicted as something that was necessary for survival given the scarce resources, so being a dissident was actually depicted as being morally wrong on a different level from merely selfish. Even so, telling someone to shut up about himself at show and tell seemed too extreme...
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Nov 25, 2014 17:08
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DrProsek posted:Wayne Gladstone Wayne Gladstone Wayne Gladstone 
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Nov 25, 2014 21:33
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Amazon's holiday deals have started, so far it seems like the 3.5 star parade but definitely post the best deals u got here. I guess that Malazan book is the first in the series? I might finally take the plunge. Alloy of Law is also on there, which at $3 is very cheap for a tabletop sourcebook. Actually it looks like almost all of them are the first book of a series. If none of those tickle your fantasy then there's always Hellhole: Awakening (the Hellhole Trilogy book 2), in the running this year for worst book or series name. Or Heaven Cent (book 11 of 35 in the Xanth series). edit: Dawn by Octavia Butler is also on sale for $2, but apparently it's "literary fiction" rather than "science fiction." Prop Wash fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 15:51
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Prop Wash posted:Amazon's holiday deals have started, so far it seems like the 3.5 star parade but definitely post the best deals u got here. I guess that Malazan book is the first in the series? I might finally take the plunge. Alloy of Law is also on there, which at $3 is very cheap for a tabletop sourcebook. Actually it looks like almost all of them are the first book of a series.
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Nov 29, 2014 19:06
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Prop Wash posted:Or Heaven Cent (book 11 of 35 in the Xanth series).  Are these all short stories or is that seriously a series that's almost as many pages long as Artamène ou le Grand Cyrus ?
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Nov 29, 2014 19:11
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It is a series of novels with creepy overtones of pedophilia.
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Nov 29, 2014 19:15
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General Battuta posted:It is a series of novels with creepy overtones of pedophilia. "Overtones", he says. Here's a short article: http://www.avclub.com/article/revisiting-the-sad-misogynistic-fantasy-of-xanth-104382 and a long series of chapter by chapter breakdowns of the early books: http://www.anamardoll.com/search/label/deconstruction%20%28xanth%29
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Nov 29, 2014 19:44
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Prop Wash posted:Amazon's holiday deals have started, so far it seems like the 3.5 star parade but definitely post the best deals u got here. I guess that Malazan book is the first in the series? I might finally take the plunge. Alloy of Law is also on there, which at $3 is very cheap for a tabletop sourcebook. Actually it looks like almost all of them are the first book of a series. Stay away from that Malazan book Night of Knives, it's bad and only a side novel to the main series. The fourth Expanse novel, Cibola Burn, is also on sale for $3.25 http://www.amazon.com/Cibola-Burn-Expanse-Book-4-ebook/dp/B00FPQA4F0 I held off after early goon reviews, but I'll pick it up at that price. Sanderson's Words of Radiance is also on sale for $3.75 http://www.amazon.com/Words-Radiance-Stormlight-Archive-Book-ebook/dp/B00DA6YEKS/ I know some goons here picked up the first one, The Way of Kings, when the ebook was free a few weeks ago; if you enjoyed the first one you should enjoy the second as well.
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Nov 29, 2014 20:24
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PlushCow posted:Stay away from that Malazan book Night of Knives, it's bad and only a side novel to the main series. Google Play has them for the same price, which is nice if you have any Google Survey credits to spend. I guess they probably price match each other.
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Nov 29, 2014 20:53
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